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Smol posted:Cliff Briscoe sells it in Novac. It's really not hard to collect the 10-15k required to buy it at that point. Playing caravan in Novac alone can net you close to 5k. Yeah I sometimes forget jsawyer.esp isn't standard. And I purposefully avoid Caravan; my first playthrough I ruined anyone willing to play. Rinkles fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 23:32
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:Talk to Yes Man. Finally beat the main quest. Found the final battle a bit underwhelming with a full suit of power armor and an automatic grenade launcher. I did enjoy annihilating Caesar's Legion and the NCR though.
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May 23, 2012 01:14
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Rinkles posted:Yeah I sometimes forget jsawyer.esp isn't standard. From reading about that mod it sounds awesome. How much harder does it make the game?
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May 23, 2012 01:37
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Isn't Caravan 'fixed' in one of the latest patches? It was broken on release, if I remember correctly, the AI couldn't play the game right, so I stopped playing as it was obviously cheating to mop up the brain-damaged AI. In my latest replay I haven't touched it. Don't really miss it.  As far as RPG card games go, it was no Arcomage, let's just say that.
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May 23, 2012 02:18
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I feel like the reward in-game, not counting cheevos, for playing the best designed card mini game since Triple Triad shoulda been more than just caps.
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May 23, 2012 02:20
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House might be a bit of a dick, but his plan to rebulid the manufacturing industry would bring alot of money, jobs and other resources into Freeside, and he even says he has no interest in meddling with people's personal freedoms and choices, so I don't get why the Followers seem to dislike him so much? Surely they have similar goals, even if House is more ruthless in his methods? An independant Vegas seems nice, but there's no long term grow, and House isn't looking to control people anyway. Unless he's Ronald Regan of the future and I just missed the point, or something? I could never get into Caravan.
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May 23, 2012 02:31
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OldMemes posted:House might be a bit of a dick, but his plan to rebulid the manufacturing industry would bring alot of money, jobs and other resources into Freeside, and he even says he has no interest in meddling with people's personal freedoms and choices, so I don't get why the Followers seem to dislike him so much? Surely they have similar goals, even if House is more ruthless in his methods? An independant Vegas seems nice, but there's no long term grow, and House isn't looking to control people anyway. I don't remember any followers except for Arcade having a problem with him.
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May 23, 2012 02:38
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OldMemes posted:House might be a bit of a dick, but his plan to rebulid the manufacturing industry would bring alot of money, jobs and other resources into Freeside, and he even says he has no interest in meddling with people's personal freedoms and choices, so I don't get why the Followers seem to dislike him so much? Surely they have similar goals, even if House is more ruthless in his methods? An independant Vegas seems nice, but there's no long term grow, and House isn't looking to control people anyway. Well, that's what he says anyway. Maybe the Followers just find it hard to trust their future to an eccentric, frozen zombie with an army of ruthless, killer robots. 
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May 23, 2012 02:43
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Fintilgin posted:Well, that's what he says anyway. If you open his pod and tell him you're siding with Ceasar, he becomes horrified by the idea of slavery coming to Vegas. If anything, his aims are similar to the Kings - personal freedom, heavily influenced by the style of the old world Vegas, but House has the know how, resources and power to actually fix the area. And he programmed Mr. New Vegas, so he's a pretty chill guy, I guess. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 02:53 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 02:50
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OldMemes posted:House might be a bit of a dick, but his plan to rebulid the manufacturing industry would bring alot of money, jobs and other resources into Freeside, and he even says he has no interest in meddling with people's personal freedoms and choices, so I don't get why the Followers seem to dislike him so much? Surely they have similar goals, even if House is more ruthless in his methods? An independant Vegas seems nice, but there's no long term grow, and House isn't looking to control people anyway. House isn't directly looking to control people, no, but he's an incredibly brutal and ruthless capitalist who really doesn't have a problem crushing people who stand in his way. He's probably going to lead the New Vegas area into something akin to the Gilded Age with himself sitting at the top as the de facto ruler of everything people need to live. He wants to accumulate a lot of power, and the Followers tend to be incredibly wary of people who are setting themselves up as autocrats.
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May 23, 2012 02:53
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Rinkles posted:Paciencia around level 12? Yeah I had to scavenge a lot of tech out of the ghoul infested area to the north and sell off all of my weapons, ammo and meds (I don't use Stimpaks) but I made it work. The ironsights are misaligned but they're pretty easy to get used to after a while. Rinkles posted:Yeah I sometimes forget jsawyer.esp isn't standard. I considered downloading that .esp but almost all of the changes (except XP rates obviously) I apply voluntarily anyway, so it wouldn't change a whole lot for me. Most games, especially shooters, are usually too easy so I look for ways to make them more difficult. I can't heal in combat, I only carry what I can use, I don't use Stimpaks and I try not to do too much "gamey" poo poo. fennesz fucked around with this message at 03:04 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 03:02
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OldMemes posted:If you open his pod and tell him you're siding with Ceasar, he becomes horrified by the idea of slavery coming to Vegas. Yeah slavery would be horrible. New Vegas sure is a Mecca of equality and fairness.
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May 23, 2012 04:24
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Zore posted:House isn't directly looking to control people, no, but he's an incredibly brutal and ruthless capitalist who really doesn't have a problem crushing people who stand in his way. He's probably going to lead the New Vegas area into something akin to the Gilded Age with himself sitting at the top as the de facto ruler of everything people need to live. He wants to accumulate a lot of power, and the Followers tend to be incredibly wary of people who are setting themselves up as autocrats. I'm now picturing Bioshock but set in the Mojave and it seems pretty chill.
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May 23, 2012 04:46
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OldMemes posted:If you open his pod and tell him you're siding with Ceasar, he becomes horrified by the idea of slavery coming to Vegas. Are you aware of what he does to The Kings if you try to negotiate a ceasefire between them and the NCR? House is a tyrant, and I have serious doubts that life would improve for anyone but the extremely wealthy under his rule.
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May 23, 2012 04:47
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Are you aware of what he does to The Kings if you try to negotiate a ceasefire between them and the NCR? House is a tyrant, and I have serious doubts that life would improve for anyone but the extremely wealthy under his rule. Good thing I have all these caps then, eh?  Honestly though, I see House as the least of the three evils. Legion's just nuts, and the NCR's a carbon copy of the prewar government, see where THAT got them. House is a manb of vision, and unless you screw him up, he'll have enough time to realize that vision without having it perverted by successive generations, as is the case with Caesar and the NCR.
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May 23, 2012 05:00
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Zore posted:.... the Followers tend to be incredibly wary of people who are setting themselves up as autocrats. I don't disagree but I'm lost on where everyone is getting the idea that the Followers hate House. They seem pretty chill about both the NCR and House, even when they're asking you to bug his network to steal medical tech from him.
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May 23, 2012 05:05
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The followers are against everyone with power. They have no plan for the future other than be nice to people. Also probably communism. They read BOOKS. Which have IDEAS. Like COMMIES. Raw_Beef fucked around with this message at 05:39 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 05:34
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Raw_Beef posted:The followers are against everyone with power. They have no plan for the future other than be nice to people. Also probably communism. ... So yeah, they're against everyone with power. They've got a better plan for the future than most groups. Spreading basic agricultural and medical knowledge as far as they can isn't very flashy, and doesn't give them much power, but it's probably the most practical and effective way to improve as many lives as possible.
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May 23, 2012 05:37
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The Followers are generally a pretty group, but that's really only because they aren't set up to be a government, and thus don't have to deal with the pitfalls the major factions (NCR, Legion, House) have to deal with. It's a similar case of comparing say, the Red Cross to the United States; one is an NGO meant to provide health care to any and all, the other is a bureaucracy built up to govern people, defend the borders, and deal with other states. No one really has anything bad to say about the Red Cross because they're not in a position of power to do really incompetent things (well, on a grand scale), while almost everyone has a criticism about the US government. That isn't to say the Followers don't have problems. They do have a hostility to the NCR that sort of borders on "holier than thou" when it comes to their perception of what the NCR is doing, and what they're (The Followers) doing. Tom Anderson over in Westside is probably the biggest culprit, he goes on about how the NCR isn't interested in helping the people and only in economic growth, but then he hooks Westside up with stolen water from NCR pipes, which may help Westside survive, but hurts the NCR sharecroppers. He justifies what he is doing with the NCR's supposed apathetic treatment of the locals, but in turn just ends up hurting a different group of people. It only just recently struck me of how the case of North Vegas and Westside hating on the NCR is pretty hypocritical, given that they only manage to survive by farming with water they are siphoning off from the NCR pipeline network.
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May 23, 2012 06:07
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:It only just recently struck me of how the case of North Vegas and Westside hating on the NCR is pretty hypocritical, given that they only manage to survive by farming with water they are siphoning off from the NCR pipeline network. It's not like North Vegas and Westside only became populated after the NCR built a pipeline.
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May 23, 2012 12:39
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The water pipeline network quests are all set in such a way I always feel uneasy doing them. I always go for the 'greater good' aspect which makes me feel pretty lovely carrying it out. You've got radiation getting into the water killing the crops for the sharecroppers AND for Westside, and trapped families that will die horribly if you fix the problem. So I always drat them to die a horribly radioactive death so the crops will survive and New Vegas can become self-sustaining in feeding itself. And then I always cut off Westside. I'd rather keep the sharecroppers and have Westside pay instead of steal. But Westside is a pretty chill place and I always feel like a dick to them for doing it, because the quest makes it seem like they're just cut off completely. Speaking of, west of Westside I've *twice* run into a bug with the Cazadors between the Follower's hideout and the beer brewery. Every few seconds, an adult Cazador was spawning directly behind my character, no matter where I was or was facing. I killed all of the regular Cazadors in the area and left, and was forced to keep running and turning around to kill the newly spawned one full of 10mm JHP before I took a stinger to the gut. I was pumped full of drugs and went through 15 turbos (with chemist, fast time, Logan's Loophole, etc.) to keep dodging used and killed hundreds of those fuckers before the game would crash. Too many corpses rendered with spastic twisting physics. I need to stay out of that area I guess. A cazador an inch away from your back every 10 seconds is pretty scary, especially playing on hard and hardcore. Way more annoying than the constant legion assassin attacks, though gently caress those too. I miss when they happened once and then not at all instead of literally everywhere I go to the point that I know all of their spawn points to watch through my scope all the time. Also, I'm loving Old World Blues and taking my time with it to do everything. I'm almost to level 30 and I'm not sure if I should stick with Logan's Loophole or switch my trait to Hoarder and something else (not Skilled, I've almost maxed every skill except melee and unarmed at this point through abusing it and getting skillbooks right away). Getting to a higher level seems like it would be counterproductive since my skills aren't going to get higher and the enemies will just turn into bigger bullet sponges, but that's 10 new perks and the level 50 ones seems pretty incredible to try out. Also I'm totally jonesing to try out Pacienca. I wish I'd never picked up Dead Money and had gotten that instead. Dead Money feels like such a chore to play through, especially on hardcore, even though I like the characters. I've abandoned more than one run to Dead Money so I don't bother with it anymore. All of the other DLC have been a lot of fun to play through. Broken Box fucked around with this message at 22:46 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 19:27
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Fintilgin posted:Isn't Caravan 'fixed' in one of the latest patches? It was broken on release, if I remember correctly, the AI couldn't play the game right, so I stopped playing as it was obviously cheating to mop up the brain-damaged AI. Yes, I think they totally changed the AI with Caravan. On my first few playthroughs I used the game to make massive amounts of money and kept myself swimming in the best armor and tons of ammo. Now I don't even bother with it. There are still ways to strategize, build a custom deck and win, but it's not as easy as before and takes u way too much time.
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May 23, 2012 19:28
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The main change to Caravan AI was that the AI used to be incapable of playing face cards against you. That made it hilariously easy to beat them. Now it's still difficult to lose if you're trying to win, but you still can lose.
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May 23, 2012 19:34
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Don't forget that the Followers also gave Edward Sallow the tools (well, the mental tools) he needed to set himself up as Caesar. That's not to say that the group itself is directly responsible for his actions, but as with the above mentioned Tom Anderson it's another example of not all their members being as pure as snow, as well as the potential for their ideals to be twisted to harmful ends.
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May 23, 2012 19:40
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Argali posted:Yes, I think they totally changed the AI with Caravan. On my first few playthroughs I used the game to make massive amounts of money and kept myself swimming in the best armor and tons of ammo. Now I don't even bother with it. There are still ways to strategize, build a custom deck and win, but it's not as easy as before and takes u way too much time. Just build a deck full of kings and 9/8 or 10/6. It makes it almost impossible to lose.
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May 23, 2012 19:41
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Pope Guilty posted:It's not like North Vegas and Westside only became populated after the NCR built a pipeline. No, but their quality of life presumably went up once the NCR moved in and started maintaining the water pipeline. Although now I kind of wonder whether it was the NCR or House who set up the pipe network (It's definitely the NCR who keep it running). Broken Box posted:Speaking of, west of Westside I've *twice* run into a bug with the Cazadors between the Follower's hideout and the beer brewery. Every few seconds, an adult Cazador was spawning directly behind my character, no matter where I was or was facing. Oh man, that area is definitely annoying. I crawled up that path the last time I went through it and used up my entire stock of 40mm Grenades (Regular and Plasma) trying to clean out the Cazadars, and I still had to resort to other weapons, there were just so many. I didn't have the problem with Cazadors spawning on top of me though, maybe you ran into the area too quickly? There's about 30 there to begin with, and more along the path behind the Brewery. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 19:42
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rope kid posted:The main change to Caravan AI was that the AI used to be incapable of playing face cards against you. That made it hilariously easy to beat them. Now it's still difficult to lose if you're trying to win, but you still can lose. Unless you're playing against Johnson Nash. That jackass regularly plays 10-15 jacks in each game, and about half of my matches against him become battles of attrition. Protip: Always bring more cards than Johnson Nash.
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May 23, 2012 19:56
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:That isn't to say the Followers don't have problems. They do have a hostility to the NCR that sort of borders on "holier than thou" when it comes to their perception of what the NCR is doing, and what they're (The Followers) doing. Tom Anderson over in Westside is probably the biggest culprit, he goes on about how the NCR isn't interested in helping the people and only in economic growth, but then he hooks Westside up with stolen water from NCR pipes, which may help Westside survive, but hurts the NCR sharecroppers. He justifies what he is doing with the NCR's supposed apathetic treatment of the locals, but in turn just ends up hurting a different group of people. The sharecroppers themselves are just trying to make a living, but they're still people who have been imported to support the army, unlike the people of Westside. Also, the sharecroppers have the full weight of the NCR backing them. Westside's got no one.
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May 23, 2012 20:06
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The NCR aren't a copy of the pre-war government, but a government based on the best ideals of America. Remember, the pe-war US of the Fallout Universe was a pretty dystopian place, judging by the background lore, with the Enclave being the last sucessors to the old federal government. The NCR would be doing a good job if they stuck to Calforina, but their imperialist and expansionist stance is hurting them badly by the time of New Vegas. The Followers are fine as a charitiable/relief organisation, but they refuse to see the bigger picture when it comes to other factions, and have no model for growth, except in an extremely grassroots sense. House is far from perfect, but he seems to really want to make Vegas great again, and by extension, the citizens of New Vegas - he seems pretty open to other factions (except the Brotherhood and the Legion), and wants to matain a business relationship with the NCR. That's what I like about this game, all the factions have good and bad points and elements of morally ambigousness (the Legion are still nutjobs though).
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May 23, 2012 20:17
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I do honestly think that if a player is looking to make sure that the NCR remains secure in the long term, then the best endings to take are the House and Independent ones. Sure, with the help of the Courier the republic probably could succeed in eventually securing the Mojave, but this success is only going to further embolden hawks like Kimball and Oliver. I would hazard to guess that the NCR would manage to overextend itself again within a few decades, and who's to say that some worse threat doesn't await it beyond Colorado? The House and Independent endings force the NCR to admit, for the first time in its history, that another foreign power exists which it can/will not eventually infiltrate or annex. Such a turn wouldn't only pull the rug from under the feet of the republic's idiot imperialists, but it would also force into taking one step further into political maturity and focus more on its own internal problems. OldMemes posted:The NCR aren't a copy of the pre-war government, but a government based on the best ideals of America. Remember, the pe-war US of the Fallout Universe was a pretty dystopian place, judging by the background lore, with the Enclave being the last sucessors to the old federal government. There's an element of truth to this, but I think it neglects the fact that as players we have a much more complete understanding of what happened in the years prior to the apocalypse than those living in its aftermath two centuries later.* For instance, you're right to point out the US' transformation into something of an authoritarian dystopia, but in Fallout 2 Vault City's ruler maintains that America was a weak democracy immediately before the bombs fell. She might be twisting things to defend her own dictatorial position, but it's also possible that incomplete (or deliberately misleading) records within the vault might be informing her position. The speech Kimball gives at Hoover Dam is also relevant to this point. In it, he claims that the NCR is a direct successor of the pre-war government, and on these grounds promotes a policy very much inspired by the old ideology of 'Manifest Destiny', which I'd hardly call one of America's 'best ideals,' even if it was one of its most successful ones. *N.B. In Fallout 2 even the Enclave, who are in some ways a direct continuation of the old federal government and have access to a host of pre-war resources and information, are unsure of who nuked who first back in 2077. Veeta fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 20:38
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I love Caravan.  I always try to build a complete Gomorrah deck and I only permit myself a standard full deck minus jokers to play with, because gently caress jokers.
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May 23, 2012 21:19
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OldMemes posted:And he programmed Mr. New Vegas, so he's a pretty chill guy, I guess.
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May 23, 2012 21:38
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LividLiquid posted:Whoa, whoa, whoa. what?! Mr. New Vegas isn't a dude? Where is this mentioned in-game? He's an AI.
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May 23, 2012 22:00
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The NCR prior to F: NV is much more likeable than what they ended up becoming in New Vegas. In New Vegas, they're mostly an expansionist empire that doesn't have the people of the Mojave's best interests in mind, and the game points out that the NCR kinda de-evolved into what it is now, which is a mirror of the pre-war US (at least in regards to foreign policy). I seem to remember that the NCR of Fallout 2 (and the end of Fallout 1) was, as a whole, not so much concerned about gaining power, but more concerned with protecting their citizens from the horrors of a post-apocalyptic world (poverty/starvation, radiation, disease, horrifying mutants/monsters, bloodthirsty and cannibalistic (and possibly rapey) raiders, etc.). Basically, the NCR was a noble organization whose founding ideals were pushed to the wayside after it was hijacked by the interests of big business and the military-industrial complex. I guess that's why I always have a soft spot for the NCR--maybe they just need a leader who can stand up to the wealthy landowners and warhawks and return the NCR to it's original mission. Sure, that's probably extremely naive, but I think it's a better option than the Legion or House. I don't understand why anybody would think of House as the best option--he never actually does anything for the good of the Mojave. Sure, his missile defense system shot down most of the nukes that were shot at Vegas, but then he just sits there in his cryogenic chamber for a few hundred years while the Mojave turns into a hellhole. It's the NCR that does most of the work defeating the Legion, only for House to swing in at the final ceremony and snatch the trophy. And his plans for the future seem kinda vague--I don't know how sending a man into space or whatever he wants to do will help the destitute, starving people of the Mojave. It's already been mentioned, but House exterminating the Kings, AKA one of the most benign organizations in the game, simply for leaving NCR refugees alone, doesn't make me trust anything he has to say.
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May 23, 2012 22:33
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Oh man, that area is definitely annoying. I crawled up that path the last time I went through it and used up my entire stock of 40mm Grenades (Regular and Plasma) trying to clean out the Cazadars, and I still had to resort to other weapons, there were just so many. I didn't have the problem with Cazadors spawning on top of me though, maybe you ran into the area too quickly? There's about 30 there to begin with, and more along the path behind the Brewery. Oh I wiped out that 30 or so flitting about, creeping slowly along the cliffs taking them out as I saw them. But when they were all killed, the combat music/[danger] warning would go away for a moment and then it would pop back up and Cazador would show up behind me. I was past 30 kills many times over, so I just kept farming Cazador poison glands to make more Turbo figuring it would stop before I slipped up and got killed. I was wrong, but I did pick up a poo poo ton of glands before I died.
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May 23, 2012 23:13
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The reason House didn't do anything sooner is because his operating System wasn't working properly - it only works at full power with the platinum chip. He does say that putting a man in space is about 100 years off, and that he plans to rebulid the tourism and manufacturing industry first. Some of his actions are pretty morally grey, but overall he's the most logical choice for the long term survival of Vegas. The Legion will fall apart after Cesaer, and the NCR have degenerated too much to fairly run the place. That said, Ulysses's plan is pretty flawed and morally repunant too - wipe out several cultures and societies, killing loads of people, just because you don't want to subscribe to the existing ideologies? Was the divide really that special, so much so that he couldn't find a new bunch of like minded people to form a faction with?
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May 23, 2012 23:17
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Veeta posted:I do honestly think that if a player is looking to make sure that the NCR remains secure in the long term, then the best endings to take are the House and Independent ones. Sure, with the help of the Courier the republic probably could succeed in eventually securing the Mojave, but this success is only going to further embolden hawks like Kimball and Oliver. I would hazard to guess that the NCR would manage to overextend itself again within a few decades, and who's to say that some worse threat doesn't await it beyond Colorado? I've always kinda seen it this way (moreso with House who has continued plans and an established presence, less so with the Courier telling Yes Man to keep the status quo and loving off to wander). It basically forces NCR to be diplomatic and not just roll up and forcefully integrate everyone and everything. House still has his own issues, as seen with the way he handles the Kings, but he's still way less of a tyrant than any of the other options. quote:*N.B. In Fallout 2 even the Enclave, who are in some ways a direct continuation of the old federal government and have access to a host of pre-war resources and information, are unsure of who nuked who first back in 2077. Oh, didn't you know? It was the aliens from Mothership Zeta 
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May 23, 2012 23:28
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Stroth posted:He's an AI.
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May 23, 2012 23:37
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LividLiquid posted:Is this said in the game anywhere? (If you've posted a video or something, I apologize. I'm using Opera Mini and it doesn't load those things.) It's never stated directly, but the game does imply it. Apparently it was explained in a interview somewhere, but I'm having problems finding it.
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May 23, 2012 23:48
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OldMemes posted:The reason House didn't do anything sooner is because his operating System wasn't working properly - it only works at full power with the platinum chip. He does say that putting a man in space is about 100 years off, and that he plans to rebulid the tourism and manufacturing industry first. House also mentions that his OS left him drifting in and out of a coma for most of that time before he managed to reboot to a downgraded and more stable version. Its only pretty recently (within living memory that is) that he "civilized" the Three Families. OldMemes posted:That said, Ulysses's plan is pretty flawed and morally repunant too - wipe out several cultures and societies, killing loads of people, just because you don't want to subscribe to the existing ideologies? Was the divide really that special, so much so that he couldn't find a new bunch of like minded people to form a faction with? Fucker is crazy. Just get high off Med-X/Slasher/Psycho/Turbo/Rushing Water and take him out. Even though i had the speech skill do talk him down i still killed him.
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May 23, 2012 23:49
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