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th vwls hv scpd
Jul 12, 2006

Developing Smarter Mechanics.
Since 1989.

Vindolanda posted:

As I remember they flash-rusted, and I think that's the aftermath.

Look at the plastic clips securing the lines. You can see where they have melted.

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Beach Bum
Jan 13, 2010
Someone tapped that with a MIG, didn't they.

BeastPussy
Jul 15, 2003

im so mumped up lmao

Beach Bum posted:

Someone tapped that with a MIG, didn't they.

if I remember correctly there was an electrical short that hit the brake lines and did that

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!
Was that an F-150? Because Casnorf has some photos to post.

INCHI DICKARI
Aug 23, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
It was a late 90s early 00s Chevy Astro, and yes all the info was correct. The ABS module hosed up, well, somehow, creating a short circuit with the brake lines being the path to ground. They were glowing yellow orange and smoking and it was a tense minute or two that it took to lower the rack far enough to disconnect the battery and let the whole thing cool down to see if it was going to burst into flame or not. I would have gotten a picture of it glowing if it wasn't an all hands on deck, boss included situation.

e: Kastein check out where the paint cooked off of the frame in addition to the cooked plastics.

INCHI DICKARI fucked around with this message at 07:34 on May 24, 2012

Casnorf
Jun 14, 2002

Never drive a car when you're a fish
I went out for lunch one day, and when I got back there had apparently been some fun. Look at full resolution for all the fun little details. I missed the show, but got back in time for everyone to piece together exactly what had happened.

Vindolanda
Feb 13, 2012

It's just like him too, y'know?

thvwlshvscpd posted:

Look at the plastic clips securing the lines. You can see where they have melted.

Sorry, I meant they flash-rusted while red hot, I remember the thread/post it came up in.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

Bang Me Please posted:

if I remember correctly there was an electrical short that hit the brake lines and did that

Speaking of electrical shorts and brake lines...

You should see what happened to to the stainless steel braided brake line on my friends Integra. Somehow that became the motor ground, melted all of the insulation on the hose, and miraculously didn't start a fire, just a lot of smoke.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Casnorf posted:

I went out for lunch one day, and when I got back there had apparently been some fun. Look at full resolution for all the fun little details. I missed the show, but got back in time for everyone to piece together exactly what had happened.


I mean, I'm no expert, but I'd say there was some kind of fire. Maybe the engine got cold and started a little fire to warm up, and it got out of control.

No but seriously, what caused that?

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

some texas redneck posted:

I mean, I'm no expert, but I'd say there was some kind of fire. Maybe the engine got cold and started a little fire to warm up, and it got out of control.

No but seriously, what caused that?

Internal combustion became external?

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

some texas redneck posted:

I mean, I'm no expert, but I'd say there was some kind of fire. Maybe the engine got cold and started a little fire to warm up, and it got out of control.

No but seriously, what caused that?

I couldn't figure it out either but I want to guess that it had something to do with electricity and brake fluid?

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Looks like the famous cruise control switch issue.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

LloydDobler posted:

Looks like the famous cruise control switch issue.

Ah poo poo, you're right. I was having trouble figuring out what kind of car that was; as soon as you said that I recognized it as an F-150.

My stepdad's F-150 has had the recall work done. Now it just blows the new inline fuse every time he replaces it.

Sponge!
Dec 22, 2004

SPORK!

some texas redneck posted:

Ah poo poo, you're right. I was having trouble figuring out what kind of car that was; as soon as you said that I recognized it as an F-150.

My stepdad's F-150 has had the recall work done. Now it just blows the new inline fuse every time he replaces it.

Woah, what now? How has Ford managed to take something as simple as a Cruise mechanism and turn it into a seppuku button?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Sponge! posted:

Woah, what now? How has Ford managed to take something as simple as a Cruise mechanism and turn it into a seppuku button?

Really simple: they put a pressure switch on the master cylinder. The switch failed in some cases, allowing brake fluid to seep into the electrical portion. Since the circuit is always energized, this ended up doing some really bad things, often after the truck had been parked. The inline fuse prevents the fire from occuring.


some texas redneck posted:

My stepdad's F-150 has had the recall work done. Now it just blows the new inline fuse every time he replaces it.

Probably because it has the EXACT problem that fix was intended to prevent from becoming a fire.

Sponge!
Dec 22, 2004

SPORK!

Motronic posted:

Really simple: they put a pressure switch on the master cylinder. The switch failed in some cases, allowing brake fluid to seep into the electrical portion. Since the circuit is always energized, this ended up doing some really bad things, often after the truck had been parked. The inline fuse prevents the fire from occuring.


Probably because it has the EXACT problem that fix was intended to prevent from becoming a fire.

So they didn't like the tried and true method of the pedal switch, and reinvented the wheel (and fire along with it.)?

Wait, we're talking about FORD. Forget I questioned them. :D

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...
Fixing the effect without fixing the cause, symptomatic repair at work!

thecobra
Aug 9, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Boo
At least they repaired it. Didn't they refuse recall on those diesels that hosed every owner over?

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!
The point is that they didn't repair it, they just added a stopgap measure (the fuse) to prevent the master cylinder from exploding. A repair would be an improved version of the switch, which from some texas redneck's explanation it sounds like they didn't do, or did badly, or changing the design entirely.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Splizwarf posted:

The point is that they didn't repair it, they just added a stopgap measure (the fuse) to prevent the master cylinder from exploding. A repair would be an improved version of the switch, which from some texas redneck's explanation it sounds like they didn't do, or did badly, or changing the design entirely.

What they did was a financially reasonable fix that prevented catastrophic results from a fairly low failure item. There were only a handful of fires. It was a recall because.......well, they were fires. If all that happened was a relatively low percentage of vehicles had their cruise control stop working because of a faulty switch no one would be yelling about recalls.

While I would of course rather see a better fix, this was reasonable and achieved the desired result with a minimum of expense and downtime of the vehicles.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.

Dr 14 INCH DICK Md posted:

It was a late 90s early 00s Chevy Astro, and yes all the info was correct. The ABS module hosed up, well, somehow, creating a short circuit with the brake lines being the path to ground. They were glowing yellow orange and smoking and it was a tense minute or two that it took to lower the rack far enough to disconnect the battery and let the whole thing cool down to see if it was going to burst into flame or not. I would have gotten a picture of it glowing if it wasn't an all hands on deck, boss included situation.

e: Kastein check out where the paint cooked off of the frame in addition to the cooked plastics.

wow.

As a northeasterner, I saw that brake line and said "huh. It must have evaporated the water and oil residue off the frame... big deal a rusty brake line that got a little hot" and thought the rest of the frame was completely covered in oil, grease, and rust. I'm not used to concepts like corrosion free vehicles.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Splizwarf posted:

The point is that they didn't repair it, they just added a stopgap measure (the fuse) to prevent the master cylinder from exploding. A repair would be an improved version of the switch, which from some texas redneck's explanation it sounds like they didn't do, or did badly, or changing the design entirely.

The switch, externally, looks the same, except it has a fuse a few inches away, and a sticker hanging off of it saying it's had the recall work performed (and to return to the dealer if the fuse blows).

The new switch has brake fluid seeping out around the wires. He wants to put a bigger fuse in. :downsgun: At least he parks it in the street. When the original switch went, it blew whatever fuse the cruise is on instead of setting the truck on fire. He put a bigger fuse in (before the recall) and he was greeted with smoke from under the hood. Up until then he'd kept saying he didn't need the recall work done. :haw:

Motronic posted:

Really simple: they put a pressure switch on the master cylinder. The switch failed in some cases, allowing brake fluid to seep into the electrical portion. Since the circuit is always energized, this ended up doing some really bad things, often after the truck had been parked. The inline fuse prevents the fire from occuring.

Probably because it has the EXACT problem that fix was intended to prevent from becoming a fire.

They did something almost as bad with the brake light switches on a lot of models. Instead of a simple plunger switch that mounted to the pedal assembly (like everybody else), they used a pressure sensitive switch that went on the pedal arm. When the switches get really worn, the brake lights don't come on until you're really standing on the pedal.

loving stupid design, it's caught me off guard several times while following friends (and also in general traffic). I'm one of the few people I know who actually bother with keeping at least a few car lengths between myself and the car in front of me, but I've seen quite a few people get rearended because the lights didn't come on until they were almost stopped.

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 00:28 on May 25, 2012

EightBit
Jan 7, 2006
I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.

some texas redneck posted:

The switch, externally, looks the same, except it has a fuse a few inches away, and a sticker hanging off of it saying it's had the recall work performed (and to return to the dealer if the fuse blows).

The new switch has brake fluid seeping out around the wires. He wants to put a bigger fuse in. :downsgun: At least he parks it in the street. When the original switch went, it blew whatever fuse the cruise is on instead of setting the truck on fire. He put a bigger fuse in (before the recall) and he was greeted with smoke from under the hood. Up until then he'd kept saying he didn't need the recall work done. :haw:


They did something almost as bad with the brake light switches on a lot of models. Instead of a simple plunger switch that mounted to the pedal assembly (like everybody else), they used a pressure sensitive switch that went on the pedal arm. When the switches get really worn, the brake lights don't come on until you're really standing on the pedal.

loving stupid design, it's caught me off guard several times while following friends (and also in general traffic). I'm one of the few people I know who actually bother with keeping at least a few car lengths between myself and the car in front of me, but I've seen quite a few people get rearended because the lights didn't come on until they were almost stopped.



You need to be paying better attention and not rely on brake-light nannies. Lights and switches fail, and there are lots of manual transmissions on the road. I'm not saying that Ford is not loving up, but geez it's your life, pay attention when you're piloting a ton of steel.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

EightBit posted:

You need to be paying better attention and not rely on brake-light nannies. Lights and switches fail, and there are lots of manual transmissions on the road. I'm not saying that Ford is not loving up, but geez it's your life, pay attention when you're piloting a ton of steel.

I do try to pay a lot of attention, particularly as someone that drives a manual.

I was just saying I've been caught off guard a few times - no close calls, but I've seen some accidents caused by the brake lights not working properly.

Ghosts n Gopniks
Nov 2, 2004

Imagine how much more sad and lonely we would be if not for the hard work of lowtax. Here's $12.95 to his aid.
Ever wonder how much of a beating a shipping container can take?



This recent mechanical failure from Poland was brought on by a large ship that suffered a mechanical failure and ended up poking the crane at the wrong place at the wrong time.

But this is nothing compared to the mega-crane that fell in Russia.

Goober Peas
Jun 30, 2007

Check out my 'Vette, bro


MrLonghair posted:

Ever wonder how much of a beating a shipping container can take?



This recent mechanical failure from Poland was brought on by a large ship that suffered a mechanical failure and ended up poking the crane at the wrong place at the wrong time.

But this is nothing compared to the mega-crane that fell in Russia.

I bet that was one hell of a ride down from inside the crane's bridge!

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

We use Kone's at work, I'm sharing that one out. Do you have a link or more info?

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


some texas redneck posted:

The switch, externally, looks the same, except it has a fuse a few inches away, and a sticker hanging off of it saying it's had the recall work performed (and to return to the dealer if the fuse blows).

The new switch has brake fluid seeping out around the wires. He wants to put a bigger fuse in. :downsgun: At least he parks it in the street. When the original switch went, it blew whatever fuse the cruise is on instead of setting the truck on fire. He put a bigger fuse in (before the recall) and he was greeted with smoke from under the hood. Up until then he'd kept saying he didn't need the recall work done. :haw:


They did something almost as bad with the brake light switches on a lot of models. Instead of a simple plunger switch that mounted to the pedal assembly (like everybody else), they used a pressure sensitive switch that went on the pedal arm. When the switches get really worn, the brake lights don't come on until you're really standing on the pedal.

loving stupid design, it's caught me off guard several times while following friends (and also in general traffic). I'm one of the few people I know who actually bother with keeping at least a few car lengths between myself and the car in front of me, but I've seen quite a few people get rearended because the lights didn't come on until they were almost stopped.



I drove around a black F-150 once which had this loving switch in it. The truck was a dedicated farm truck so normally you'd hit the brakes hard enough because you were pulling a trailer. Unloaded (as I drove it) the brakes were touchy as hell so I had the choice of either: attempting to light up the brake lights while giving myself whiplash as well as likely causing anyone without lightning reflexes to rear end me; or to slowly brake and hope the person behind me was paying attention. In a 120 mile trip I had three separate people take to the shoulder to keep from rear-ending me.


Here's an article for the crane wreck. Three injuries, two severe, but thankfully nobody killed. Also looks like less than a day earlier they announced they were going to be investing ~$50mil in new equipment for the port.

DELETED
Nov 14, 2004
Disgruntled
:eng101: That's when you kick on the parking lights and engage the Fake Brakes. Doesn't work so well at night though.

PBCrunch
Jun 17, 2002

Lawrence Phillips Always #1 to Me
No one in the aftermarket makes a conventional brake light switch for those vehicles?

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


DELETED posted:

:eng101: That's when you kick on the parking lights and engage the Fake Brakes. Doesn't work so well at night though.

I eventually started to hit the hazard flashers when I knew I had to slow down. That truck was a rolling road hazard anyway (yay SC and no vehicle inspections) so it wasn't like I was lying or anything.

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
I think the kooky Ford brake stuff comes from an old Lincoln problem, or more an old Lincoln driver problem. They used to rest their left feet on the brake pedal, so Ford accounted for a little bit of pedal pressure always being present. If you've ever wondered why Motorcraft DOT3 brake fluid has a dry boiling point greater than most DOT4 including ATE Super Blue/Type 200 or why Motorcraft brake caliper grease is rated for a billion degrees, it's because old people were dragging brakes all the time.

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


SNiPER_Magnum posted:

I think the kooky Ford brake stuff comes from an old Lincoln problem, or more an old Lincoln driver problem. They used to rest their left feet on the brake pedal, so Ford accounted for a little bit of pedal pressure always being present. If you've ever wondered why Motorcraft DOT3 brake fluid has a dry boiling point greater than most DOT4 including ATE Super Blue/Type 200 or why Motorcraft brake caliper grease is rated for a billion degrees, it's because old people were dragging brakes all the time.

That explains it. The switch is designed to take a good bit of gradual pressure before it will engage. Here's how it is installed:



And here's what it looks like installed:



The black bushing allows enough play between the brake pedal and the vacuum booster such that for the first part of the force applied to the pedal the switch is the part transmitting the effort between the pedal and the brakes. However the spring on the switch is pretty darn stiff (if I recall correctly it is quite hard to actuate the switch by hand) so if you do a gradual brake application you can end up applying a great deal of stopping power before the plate in the switch gets depressed enough for the worn contacts in the switch to finally turn on the brake lights.

Also fun: this same switch controls cruise control cutoff. You have to apply a sharp, hard kick to the pedal to disengage the cruise control.

Shifty Pony fucked around with this message at 02:19 on May 27, 2012

Sockington
Jul 26, 2003
It doesn't have a master on/off?

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Shifty Pony posted:

Also fun: this same switch controls cruise control cutoff. You have to apply a sharp, hard kick to the pedal to disengage the cruise control.

Not quite, there's a pressure switch on the master cylinder for that on Fords. One that really likes to start fires.

But the brake light switch usually deactivates the cruise on most other makes.

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


Sockington posted:

It doesn't have a master on/off?

Yes it does, right on the steering wheel. It just made for a brief "oh poo poo the truck is now Christine!" moment while driving. I can't recall what eventually killed that truck but I think the AODE transmission was the bit that did it in.

edit: this was a 1992 F-150 so it was before the fire switch.

MattO
Oct 10, 2003

I have that same brake light switch in my 65 Galaxie.

I got pulled over on the way to work not knowing it was broken, the cop let me go the 100 yards further to my job as long as I had it fixed before I left.

I had some wire, zip ties and ear plugs and managed to rig up a squeeze trigger so I could get home. It's real fun having to sync pinch some wires every time I hit the brakes, especially in heavy traffic.



That pic reminds me that I need to put some new grip tape on my brake petal.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Shifty Pony posted:

Yes it does, right on the steering wheel. It just made for a brief "oh poo poo the truck is now Christine!" moment while driving. I can't recall what eventually killed that truck but I think the AODE transmission was the bit that did it in.

edit: this was a 1992 F-150 so it was before the fire switch.

I think they used a similar style switch all the way back to 1987, but I'm not sure. The recall only goes back to the 1993 model year on the F-150 though.

edit: I just looked up the master cylinder on rockauto, they used the same one from 1987 to 2002. :iiam:

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 03:42 on May 27, 2012

Crustashio
Jul 27, 2000

ruh roh

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

I think the kooky Ford brake stuff comes from an old Lincoln problem, or more an old Lincoln driver problem. They used to rest their left feet on the brake pedal, so Ford accounted for a little bit of pedal pressure always being present. If you've ever wondered why Motorcraft DOT3 brake fluid has a dry boiling point greater than most DOT4 including ATE Super Blue/Type 200 or why Motorcraft brake caliper grease is rated for a billion degrees, it's because old people were dragging brakes all the time.


That is a classic example of trying to out-engineer stupidity. I will now be using that as a reference when people ask me to design crap like that at work :v:

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Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Crustashio posted:

That is a classic example of trying to out-engineer stupidity. I will now be using that as a reference when people ask me to design crap like that at work :v:



Why would you rest your foot on the brakes at any time? Is that how they taught people to drive in the 1940s? How does that even make sense

Jesus Christ old people should just kill themselves :stare:

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