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escape artist posted:What are some quality books that have unreliable narrators? Possibly (but not necessarily) ones with narrators who are unreliable because of psychiatric issues like delusions? Dan Simmons' Drood has a interesting story behind it (Dickens final days and book) and a unreliable narrator. Simmons is hit and miss with me, but I remember enjoying this despite some shortcomings.
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Jun 2, 2012 14:07
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Pale Fire by Nabokov is obviously the king of that, really more of a puzzlebook than a straight story. You could go old school with Turn of the Screw by Henry James or Confessions of a Justified Sinner by James Hogg, both are ghost stories which fit well with supposing a murderous and insane narrator. Bret Easton Ellis does it all the time, but say American Psycho because it's his classic. Phillip K. Dick has less unreliable narrators more unreliable worlds (for e.g. Ubik), but A Scanner Darkly probably has the former more than the latter. Phillip Roth's American Pastoral is interesting because it's an author fictionalizing the life of an acquaintance, which is fun because it's constantly making you aware of the distance between the story and any possible truth of what happened. e: added a space Mr. Squishy fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jun 2, 2012 |
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Jun 2, 2012 14:12
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escape artist posted:What are some quality books that have unreliable narrators? Possibly (but not necessarily) ones with narrators who are unreliable because of psychiatric issues like delusions? The most obvious answer is probably One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and another classic is The Tin Drum. Goon recommendations might include the divisive House of Leaves, Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, and John Dies at the End, all of which I really like. Not quite "unreliable" in the same way, but The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime might also be worth a look. edit- Seconding Squishy's comments on PKD, meant to include ASD. funkybottoms fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Jun 2, 2012 |
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Jun 2, 2012 14:15
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Nigel Tufnel posted:Bit of an obscure ask but I'm looking for fiction set in modern day Tokyo. Not too worried about the genre as long as it's not an overly romanticised drama. Gritty Tokyo is better.
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Jun 2, 2012 14:35
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escape artist posted:What are some quality books that have unreliable narrators? Possibly (but not necessarily) ones with narrators who are unreliable because of psychiatric issues like delusions? Wittgenstein's Mistress by David Markson is pretty rad.
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Jun 2, 2012 19:53
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Keep the recommendations coming, guys  I really appreciate them. I actually have Pale Fire from the library, just haven't gotten around to reading it because I also have Pale King from the library. (just now realized I checked out two books with Pale in the title)
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Jun 2, 2012 20:13
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escape artist posted:Keep the recommendations coming, guys Definitely read Pale Fire, it's good as hell. Most Nabokov after and including Lolita have a more or less unreliable narrator to contend with. Paul Auster also often writes pseudo-memoirs whose narrators you can read unreliability into, and his recent novel Invisible turns on the unreliability of the text. It's also pretty good and an easy read.
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Jun 2, 2012 20:34
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escape artist posted:What are some quality books that have unreliable narrators? Possibly (but not necessarily) ones with narrators who are unreliable because of psychiatric issues like delusions? - The Meaning of Night, by Michael Cox. - Seconding Drood, by Dan Simmons. - The Horla, by Guy de Mauppassant (probably available for free online somewhere). Um... those are pretty much what you're looking for... but they're all Neo-Victorian or flat-out Victorian. These kinda play with the idea of an unreliable narrator a bit, and may not match your original question as well, yet may still be of interest: - The Kindly Ones, Jonathan Littell (can a narrator be too reliable? Is the narrator reliable? May not be everyone's cup of tea.) - Atonement, Ian McEwan (yeah, can't really explain without spoilers, but it's not "unreliable" like I think you're talking about re: madness, being unhinged, etc., but it's pretty drat good)
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Jun 2, 2012 21:32
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I'll recommend this year's Orange Prize winner, "The Song of Achilles" by Madeline Miller. It's a retelling of the Iliad as a love story between Achilles and Patroclus, and it is beautifully written. The novel is actually quite adherent to the source material (no Troy starring Brad Pitt here), and focuses quite a bit on the two men's childhood and adolescence -- the Trojan War proper doesn't begin until more than halfway through. The novel is both uplifting and tragic (3000 year old spoiler alert: everyone dies), and anyone with even the slightest interest in the Classics should really enjoy it.
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Jun 3, 2012 02:47
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escape artist posted:What are some quality books that have unreliable narrators? Possibly (but not necessarily) ones with narrators who are unreliable because of psychiatric issues like delusions? Check out The Sense of an Ending by Julian Barnes (winner of the 2011 Man Booker prize). The entire novella is actually about the unreliability of our "life narratives," for lack of a better phrase. It's also really short, so no worries if you have a tough time with commitment. Goky fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jun 3, 2012 |
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Jun 3, 2012 02:47
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TFNC posted:You'll probably have better luck with this request in D&D's book thread. Thank you! I suppose this is not the best place for discussion of nonfiction.
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Jun 4, 2012 00:30
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If I found the Terror too drawn out and boring, will I like Drood? The cover art makes it look fantastic and I'd like to know more about Charles Dickens as a person. Is the antagonist in Drood as bad rear end as the silhouette on the cover portrays him?
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Jun 4, 2012 04:39
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Kneel Before Zog posted:If I found the Terror too drawn out and boring, will I like Drood? The cover art makes it look fantastic and I'd like to know more about Charles Dickens as a person. Is the antagonist in Drood as bad rear end as the silhouette on the cover portrays him? I would say not. Outside of Summer of Night (it is like King's It but without the them as adults part) and the Hyperion series, I found the Terror to be one of my favorite books by Simmons. Drood is drawn out also, but very creepy at times, and not as good as the Terror to me. I enjoyed it, but I have a feeling you would find Drood like you found the Terror. That said his last book Flashbook I had to put down because of the right wing politics the book is laced with. I think Simmons is a good multigenre writer, but I don't think I am going to waste anymore time on him (well never say never).
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Jun 4, 2012 14:57
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escape artist posted:Keep the recommendations coming, guys Warning - it's all downhill from there. Pale Fire is my favorite book. Nabokov straight killed it with that one.
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Jun 4, 2012 16:22
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When the Song of Ice and Fire series came out, I reluctantly picked it up on one of my friend's recommendations as I'm not a big fantasy guy. I ended up loving about half the series. The first couple books, which were mostly filled with outlandish political intrigue and relatively little magic, had me hooked. The last couple books really weren't for me. I'm looking for a recommendation on a series(preferably not a sci-fi or fantasy series) that features high-stakes political intrigue like the first book or two of this series. I figure that fiction is more likely to contain the level of subterfuge that I found so interesting in the first two SOIAF books, does anyone know of any novels that focus on political power struggles in something close to contemporary time? I'd prefer something set closer to this time, but I wouldn't be at all opposed to reading an old stuffy book either. My favorite kind of literature growing up was Victorian era stuff like Dickens(I don't know what was wrong with me either), so I can handle dry. A non-fiction piece would be fine, though I doubt there were many politcal climates as rife with in-fighting in the last couple hundred years(which isn't to say I wouldn't be okay with learning more about power struggles in Rome or within European monarchs, just that I'd prefer something closer to contemporary if possible). If anyone knows of any interesting non-fiction along these lines I'd love to hear about it.
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Jun 4, 2012 17:45
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Fisticuffs posted:When the Song of Ice and Fire series came out, I reluctantly picked it up on one of my friend's recommendations as I'm not a big fantasy guy. Just to keep it fantasy and I'm not sure if it is exactly what you are looking for, but when I asked about what a non -fantasy person should read after ASOIAF I was told Joe Abercrombie's First Law Trilogy. I loved it. Just to compare taste I loved the first 3 books of ASOIAF, but hate the 4th. I am currently on page 851 of ADWD (I put off reading it because I knew it would be awhile before I can read another). This one I loved the POV stuff from the characters I cared about, but the rest can be a bore. Now about political intrigue, have you read Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies (about Henry the VIII)? nate fisher fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 18:14
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This question is ignorant as all hell, but is there a lot more to Jane Austen's novels than just being drawing-room dramas? I've read my fair share of realist works but have never read Austen, and I constantly see her books praised as some of the best. Are they that good as compared to say Honore de Balzac or the Bronte Sisters? Edit: Thanks Hieronymous Alloy and DirtyRobot! Jive One fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jun 5, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 20:08
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nate fisher posted:Just to keep it fantasy and I'm not sure if it is exactly what you are looking for, but when I asked about what a non -fantasy person should read after ASOIAF I was told Joe Abercrombie's First Law Trilogy. I loved it. Just to compare taste I loved the first 3 books of ASOIAF, but hate the 4th. I am currently on page 851 of ADWD (I put off reading it because I knew it would be awhile before I can read another). This one I loved the POV stuff from the characters I cared about, but the rest can be a bore. I am really trying to get (far)away from fantasy settings period but I will give this one a shot, thanks. nate fisher posted:Now about political intrigue, have you read Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies (about Henry the VIII)? I will check out this series before the other one though. This is more along the lines of what I'm looking for, these look to be pretty interesting. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
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Jun 4, 2012 20:38
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Jive One posted:This question is ignorant as all hell, but is there a lot more to Jane Austen's novels than just being drawing-room dramas? I've read my fair share of realist works but have never read Austen, and I constantly see her books praised as some of the best. Are they that good as compared to say Honore de Balzac or the Bronte Sisters? What really makes Austen is her prose. She'll write sentences that have as many as four separate levels of irony, meaning one thing to the character speaking, another to the character hearing it, yet another to the narrator, and with a final layer of meaning to the reader. She's probably one of the top ten English-language prose stylists to have ever lived. I'd say she far outclasses the Brontes -- I'd put her at a level with Dickens or Twain. Otherwise, in terms of plot, emotional impact, etc., Austen was just so influential that a lot of her stuff doesn't come across as particularly novel now -- when every romantic comedy since Austen has been loosely based on Austen, of course Austen isn't going to seem that original. The Bronte's books have a lot more emotional Sturm und Drang because that's what they were about, that's not what Austen was trying to do. So read Austen for the prose style. I mean, look at the first sentence of Pride and Prejudice: quote:IT is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife. That sentence is perfect for what Pride and Prejudice is going to be. It tells you exactly what the novel's going to be, and be about, and it's stated so baldly that you can't help but not be quite sure whether the narrator means it ironically or not, which turns out to be pretty spot-on to a lot of what Austen was talking about regarding social mores, etc., P&P.. It's got a gendered viewpoint and it's already deconstructing that viewpoint ever-so-slightly. That said, her writing is extremely dry, and you have to do a lot of work to get a lot of her jokes, because she was writing for a very specific social set who knew exactly who and what she was satirizing, and if you don't put the work into following the references, half the stuff she's writing about will fly completely over your head (my favorite example of this is how the difference between a Curricle and a gig plays into Northanger Abbey.). She's one of the few writers I'd really recommend watching a lot of costume dramas of their books before you try to wade in, just so you can get the setting, costumes, atmosphere, etc., all of which she completely left out because everyone she was writing for already knew, but which is completely alien to modern readers. Edit: as to where to start with Austen, I'd recommend either P&P or Northanger Abbey. P&P is her Great Novel of course but Northanger is absolutely hilarious if you've read other gothic fiction, it's just plain funny in a way that her later novels never quite match. It's also a bit rougher than the others, as her first book, but still, just funny. Her most sophisticated/intellectually interesting book is probably Mansfield Park. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 20:42
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Yo, Hieronymous Alloy, you really know your poo poo in here. From whence, all this poo poo you know?
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Jun 4, 2012 20:47
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TFNC posted:Yo, Hieronymous Alloy, you really know your poo poo in here. From whence, all this poo poo you know? Thanks! Basically I wasted the past thirty years of my life reading everything I could instead of going outside, etc. Fantasy as a kid, then English major in college, then once I got an e-reader I went back and read just about everything that was on kindle and out of copyright. For Austen I actually took a summer course at Cambridge (study abroad program from my college).
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Jun 4, 2012 20:54
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To add to what Hieronymous Alloy said, Austen also basically invented free indirect thought (which makes her very influential on Balzac and Flaubert), and which plays into her irony and the interiority of her characters. That interiority is also what makes her a capital-R Romantic like Wordsworth et al., and IMO is the main answer to what "more" there is to Austen than just your standard drawing-room drama. I.e., the social codes and trite bullshit dialogue is supposed to strike you as absurd, overly rigid, and often silly, just as it strikes the characters as all those things. But the trick is negotiating those exterior social codes against the massive interior subjective space (what Austen would call "sensibility") the main characters have. Often those bullshit social codes and rules cause insane amounts of emotional pain which the characters can never show (think of what's actually at stake in Pride and Prejudice, or the horrible, lovely cottage the poor Dashwood sisters have to move to in Sense and Sensibility). If you have access to JSTOR you might read Wayne C. Booth's "Point of View and Control of Distance in Jane Austen's Emma." It might also be available on Google Books as a chapter of The Rhetoric of Fiction (1961). (Edit: or pm me). The article is about how Austen gets the reader's sympathy for Emma (a character of whom Austen said "no one but myself will much like") using what Booth calls "sympathetic interior views," but which has since been dubbed free indirect discourse. A fun game to play is to read a chapter of Emma (it even works with the first one) and ask yourself with literally every sentence, "wait a sec, is this really still the omniscient narrator or is it the narrator ventriloquizing Emma's perspective on events?" Often you just can't tell. (And sometimes it'll be another character, like Mr. Knightley or whatever.) Also, this is neither here nor there, but I love these lines by W.H. Auden about Austen: W.H. Auden posted:You could not shock her more than she shocks me; DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 21:23
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escape artist posted:What are some quality books that have unreliable narrators? Possibly (but not necessarily) ones with narrators who are unreliable because of psychiatric issues like delusions? What was she thinking? Notes on a Scandal by Zoe Heller was a good one. It was also turned into a movie with Dame Judi Dench and Cate Blanchett. If you're looking for something a little more scummy and not quite so female-centric try Money by Martin Amis. Patrick McGrath also wrote a great novel called Spider. This one is really about a looney. Fisticuffs posted:I'm looking for a recommendation on a series(preferably not a sci-fi or fantasy series) that features high-stakes political intrigue like the first book or two of this series. I figure that fiction is more likely to contain the level of subterfuge that I found so interesting in the first two SOIAF books, does anyone know of any novels that focus on political power struggles in something close to contemporary time? I'd prefer something set closer to this time, but I wouldn't be at all opposed to reading an old stuffy book either. My favorite kind of literature growing up was Victorian era stuff like Dickens(I don't know what was wrong with me either), so I can handle dry. I really liked Mary Renault's fictional accounts of Alexander the Great, there's a series but it starts with Fire from Heaven. Also pick up Robert Graves' excellent I, Claudius which is all about poisoning and intrigues. Both are fictional but based on history similar to ASOIAF but less fantasy oriented. Alison Weir does some really great biographies of the Tudors and I especially liked The Six Wives of Henry the VIII. Sorry, don't have any more modern recs for you, I'm more of a history buff.
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Jun 4, 2012 23:48
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Those last couple of posts have completely sold me on Austen, what would be your recommendations for which of her books to read first? Well, once I finish Pale Fire anyway. I meant to make pretty much the same suggestions before I got distracted by the Austen posts, so I'm editing to throw another vote in for Ishiguro. Chamberk posted:As far as unreliable narrators go, plenty of books by Kazuo Ishiguro are amazing. a kitten fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jun 5, 2012 |
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Jun 5, 2012 02:58
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As far as unreliable narrators go, plenty of books by Kazuo Ishiguro are amazing. Their characters aren't mad, per se, but they tend to avoid or ignore things about their lives, and so you can see everything they can't, and the mistakes they make, and it's heartbreaking and ultimately amazing. Remains of the Day, An Artist of the Floating World, Never Let Me Go and A Pale View of Hills are all very good, though Remains is my personal favorite. Pale Fire is the best unreliable narrator book, though - I get the feeling it would only grow in my estimation upon rereading. And re: Austen, Persuasion has always been my favorite.
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Jun 5, 2012 03:03
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In regards to Austen, my favorite is Emma, but I think starting with her Juvenilia or Lady Susan is the best way to prepare one's self for all the layers of irony and manipulation of narrative voice and proximity.
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Jun 5, 2012 18:43
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Just finished the latest Iron Druid book. Before that I burned through Sanderson's Way of kings and Mistborn books, American Gods, Asoiaf, and all of the Dresden files. I like the fantasy/urban fantasy thing, so more of that would be good.
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Jun 5, 2012 22:35
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Poutling posted:What was she thinking? Notes on a Scandal by Zoe Heller was a good one. It was also turned into a movie with Dame Judi Dench and Cate Blanchett. If you're looking for something a little more scummy and not quite so female-centric try Money by Martin Amis. Patrick McGrath also wrote a great novel called Spider. This one is really about a looney. Don't be sorry. I was kind of doubtful that there would be a modern period of absurdly heavy political intrigue because it's harder for politicos to kill each other off nowadays. King Henry the VIII's court sounds the most similar to the sort of thing I'd like to read about, regardless of the time period. The book on his six wives, and what happened to them, sounds especially interesting. I always feel like I need to research the topics of the historical fiction I read, so that I can understand how much invention is inserted... but I still love it. Even though historical fiction seems to me to come bundled with homework, I will definitely check out Renault's series. Thank you very much, sir or madam. While I'm hanging out... does anyone know any good books on superstition and its development in western society? I'd prefer non-fiction, but I would also enjoy a fictional book dealing with the same issues or a tangential, smaller facet of the way superstition affects people's lives or why superstitions arise. Fisticuffs fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jun 6, 2012 |
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Jun 6, 2012 01:20
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Fisticuffs posted:
Carl Sagan's Demon-Haunted World:Science as a Candle in the Dark comes to mind. It doesn't touch on all the themes you touch but you should find it interesting.
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Jun 6, 2012 02:15
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Nigel Tufnel posted:Bit of an obscure ask but I'm looking for fiction set in modern day Tokyo. Not too worried about the genre as long as it's not an overly romanticised drama. Gritty Tokyo is better. The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami is not just set in modern-day Tokyo but is centered around it. A fantastic read. number9dream by David Mitchell is another taking place in modern-day Tokyo. Another pretty spacey, strange novel but I can't recommend it enough.
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Jun 6, 2012 02:20
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I just got a job that pretty much lets me power through books and I'm not very well read at the moment. I'm trying to get through the "must-reads" now, and stuff that I have an academic interest in. Aside from that though, I'm not sure how to describe it, but I like reading about people. Especially like outcast type people, doing drugs, going to bars, loving off, whatever, and everything else that kind of life entails. This probably sounds retarded, whatever. Book recommendations? E: nate fisher posted:Carl Sagan's Demon-Haunted World:Science as a Candle in the Dark comes to mind. It doesn't touch on all the themes you touch but you should find it interesting. First time in this thread and I see this. Fantastic. Yes, read this book.
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Jun 6, 2012 04:24
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I've just finished In Cold Blood and I thought it was fascinating. Can anyone recommend anything similar?
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Jun 6, 2012 04:52
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The Normandy posted:I've just finished In Cold Blood and I thought it was fascinating. Can anyone recommend anything similar? Norman Mailer's Executioner's Song comes to mind and I also liked Shot in the Heart by Mikal Gilmore (Gary's brother). Also Columbine by Dave Cullen is a amazing book. For something different you can also try Killing Pablo or Devil in the White City. Edit: Just realize I am stuck on the true crime part of our request.
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Jun 6, 2012 14:26
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I'm craving Jewish-American suburban or urban family life stuff, bonus points for coming-of-age themes, and a 60's/70's/80's backdrop. Think Neil Simon's "Eugene Trilogy" ("Brighton Beach Memoirs," "Biloxi Blues") also Portnoy's Complaint as the most obvious starting points, but also Adam Langer's "Crossing California" and "Washington Story" for a more seventies/eighties take on that thing. I also recently watched the movies Two Lovers (adult man with emotional problems lives with his extremely Jewish, senior parents in Brighton Beach) and A Serious Man (late-1960's suburban Jewish patriarch sees his entire life go to hell in short order in a blackly hilarious way), which have me fiending for more along these lines. If it's relevant, I find this stuff to be exotic and interesting as I was raised Protestant in the South.
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Jun 6, 2012 16:53
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I'm going to say American Pastoral by Phillip Roth again. I really enjoyed that book.
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Jun 6, 2012 17:09
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Transistor Rhythm posted:I'm craving Jewish-American suburban or urban family life stuff, bonus points for coming-of-age themes, and a 60's/70's/80's backdrop. ed Protestant in the South. Although not in the same backdrop you may like This Is Where I Leave You by Jonathan Trooper. It is about a dysfunctional family that comes together to sit for shiva (for 7 days) after the father dies. Sorry about all the recommendations in the last couple of days.
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Jun 6, 2012 17:09
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Tots posted:I just got a job that pretty much lets me power through books and I'm not very well read at the moment. I'm trying to get through the "must-reads" now, and stuff that I have an academic interest in. Aside from that though, I'm not sure how to describe it, but I like reading about people. Especially like outcast type people, doing drugs, going to bars, loving off, whatever, and everything else that kind of life entails. This probably sounds retarded, whatever. Book recommendations? Charles Bukowski. Especially Post Office, Women and Pulp.
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Jun 6, 2012 19:05
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My favorite part of The Satanic Verses are the chapters with Mohammed. I just read Master and Margarita and the Pontius Pilate parts were, again, the best. Anyone have any recommendations along those religious-retelling lines? Any religion. Considering Saramago's The Gospel According to Jesus Christ and maybe Heller's God Knows, though it gets mixed reviews and I dunno about his non-Catch-22 books.
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Jun 6, 2012 19:32
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mcustic posted:Charles Bukowski. Especially Post Office, Women and Pulp. And definitely John Fante, a big influence on Bukowski. "Ask the Dust" is the obvious starter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask_the_Dust Also, maybe Richard Brautigan? I could see you digging his stuff. Maybe start with "Dreaming of Babylon."
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Jun 6, 2012 19:33
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ultrachrist posted:My favorite part of The Satanic Verses are the chapters with Mohammed. I just read Master and Margarita and the Pontius Pilate parts were, again, the best. East of Eden by John Steinbeck is probably my second favorite book of all time. It's a sort of re-telling of the Cain and Able tale in the Bible, but turns it into more of a parable about life and removes some of the religious aspects. Despite that, there is a sort of devil character. It isn't much like Steinbeck's other work. It is much less focused than his shorter novels, and some of the metaphors are obvious. The plot isn't terribly interesting or surprising, but the characters are beautiful and fully fleshed out. I'd also whole-heartedly recommend this book to Tots. This book is basically about people's relationships to each other and what they mean. It's a quintessential American Family Drama, and there are some bad seeds so I think you'd like it. Those Charles Bukowski recommendations might be a bit more up your alley, as the narrators in those books tend to be at the center of the misbehaving but you'd probably like East of Eden as well once the characters are established.
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Jun 6, 2012 19:39
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