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Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

movax posted:

2560x1600 in 15" is loving glorious, but goodbye sweet dream of gaming at native panel resolution on the go. Not the concern for most Mac users, but still sucks.

You can't game at native resolution right now either.

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Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!
Installed my SSD just now, don't have much to say about it yet except that I was under the impression that my boot up time would be nearly instant, but it's not. User the timer on my iPhone it took me about 50 seconds from when I pressed the power button to getting to my desktop. Take off some seconds where I had to type in my username/password and it's still ~45 seconds from power on to desktop.

Is this as good as it gets or am I doing something wrong?

MBP 13" 2010 base model by the way.

kuskus
Oct 20, 2007

Sounds about right for a Core 2 Duo. 4GB of RAM?

Edit: My i5 Air gets 22 seconds to desktop + dock.

kuskus fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jun 6, 2012

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

kuskus posted:

Sounds about right for a Core 2 Duo. 4GB of RAM?

Oops no, upgraded to 8 GB recently.

The only thing I can think of is when I cloned with CCC from the old hard drive to the new SSD I didn't turn off FV2 so I don't know if that would have any affect. Right now I have FV2 disabled on the SSD though (well it was automatically disabled, because I guess I can't enable it without the recovery partition which wasn't cloned). Don't know if I should try recloning again with FV2 explicitly turned off before but it took an hour…

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



Boris Galerkin posted:

Oops no, upgraded to 8 GB recently.

The only thing I can think of is when I cloned with CCC from the old hard drive to the new SSD I didn't turn off FV2 so I don't know if that would have any affect. Right now I have FV2 disabled on the SSD though (well it was automatically disabled, because I guess I can't enable it without the recovery partition which wasn't cloned). Don't know if I should try recloning again with FV2 explicitly turned off before but it took an hour…

FV2 is disabled because 1) it is completely transparent to CCC which just clones what the filesystem presents to it and 2) you don't have a recovery partition anymore. There is no point in cloning again because the result is the same with or without FV2.

If you are going to want to use FV2, you will need to do a regular install and then restore from a time machine backup or similar.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

Boris Galerkin posted:

Installed my SSD just now, don't have much to say about it yet except that I was under the impression that my boot up time would be nearly instant, but it's not. User the timer on my iPhone it took me about 50 seconds from when I pressed the power button to getting to my desktop. Take off some seconds where I had to type in my username/password and it's still ~45 seconds from power on to desktop.

Is this as good as it gets or am I doing something wrong?

MBP 13" 2010 base model by the way.

That doesn't sound right. Which SSD do you have? I put in a Crucial M4 in my 2011 MBP and it booted up in 15 seconds.

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



Mu Zeta posted:

That doesn't sound right. Which SSD do you have? I put in a Crucial M4 in my 2011 MBP and it booted up in 15 seconds.

He's running a 2010 13" MBP, which is a C2D according to Mac Tracker, so I imagine it's going to be a bit slower. Still, 45 seconds does sound like spinny disk speeds.

The 830 in my 15" 2010 gets me from cold boot to usable desktop in 25 seconds, including typing in my 27 character FV2 passphrase. :iia:

Oneiros fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jun 6, 2012

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Mu Zeta posted:

You can't game at native resolution right now either.

Well, at least 1680x1050 is within the realm of possibility :smith:

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

Mu Zeta posted:

That doesn't sound right. Which SSD do you have? I put in a Crucial M4 in my 2011 MBP and it booted up in 15 seconds.

I have the same Crucial m4 @ 256 GB. When people talk about boot speeds are they only starting at the chime or when you press the power?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Mu Zeta posted:

That doesn't sound right. Which SSD do you have? I put in a Crucial M4 in my 2011 MBP and it booted up in 15 seconds.

A 2010 shouldn't be far behind. I am pretty sure there's a video of my 2010 Pro booting with an Intel X-25 or 320 SSD in it, but it's in either the old SSD or Mac thread - and I don't have archives :(

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

Boris Galerkin posted:

I have the same Crucial m4 @ 256 GB. When people talk about boot speeds are they only starting at the chime or when you press the power?

I count after the chime.

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

I'm kind of hoping that 2560x1600 resolution isn't correct for the 15" MBP, because that's only effectively 1280x800 in HiDPI mode.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm
I have a 2010 13" with 8gb of ram and a Corsair F115 SSD. Boots in 15-20 seconds, something is up with your setup... then again the first or two reboots of a new install are slow.

Also, spilled a whole bottle of water onto my MBP about 10 minutes ago - it immediately powered off. My life flashed before my eyes. Pulled it apart and dried it, still works. :psypop:

cbirdsong
Sep 8, 2004

Commodore of the Apocalypso
Lipstick Apathy

Mercurius posted:

I'm kind of hoping that 2560x1600 resolution isn't correct for the 15" MBP, because that's only effectively 1280x800 in HiDPI mode.

This is why the 13" still has a 1280x800 screen!

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cbirdsong posted:

This is why the 13" still has a 1280x800 screen!

Regarding the 15" model, I'm not going to spend $2500 or whatever on a glorified large 1280x800 display with better looking icons and smoother text. There better be a way to use the actual resolution of 2560*1600 (if that's what it's going to be) beyond that.

Sinestro
Oct 31, 2010

The perfect day needs the perfect set of wheels.

flavor posted:

Regarding the 15" model, I'm not going to spend $2500 or whatever on a glorified large 1280x800 display with better looking icons and smoother text. There better be a way to use the actual resolution of 2560*1600 (if that's what it's going to be) beyond that.

Oh god I want that so bad.

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

BlackMK4 posted:

I have a 2010 13" with 8gb of ram and a Corsair F115 SSD. Boots in 15-20 seconds, something is up with your setup... then again the first or two reboots of a new install are slow.

OK, this is much better now. Played with my computer normally and rebooted a few times now, and now if I just start the timer from when I hear the chime it gets to the desktop around ~20 seconds including the time I have to type in my username and password. I think now I can boot up with Mail, Safari and Spotify around 25 seconds which feels pretty fast to me. Much better than that 45+ seconds.

Do I/should I disable hibernation since i have 8 GB of RAM and I heard every time I close the lid on my MBP it dumps all contents of my RAM into a 8 GB file? I never turn off my computer and I open/close the lid a lot throughout the day.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm
Leave it on.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Mercurius posted:

I'm kind of hoping that 2560x1600 resolution isn't correct for the 15" MBP, because that's only effectively 1280x800 in HiDPI mode.

HiDPI needs to really have a 50% or 75% mode which is smoother, but doesn't outright double. Would probably increase the size of apps way too much to have 3-4 different sets of their graphic assets, but it would be nice. You could even run the different apps in different HiDPI modes. That would be superkeen.

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



BlackMK4 posted:

Leave it on.

But hibernatemode 0 is so fast. :circlefap:

Seriously though, I've been running my laptops in mode 0 for over six years now with no issue. Unless you regularly run the battery down to near empty, leave it sleeping for months at a time, or have a complete battery failure it's not going to cause any problems.

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting

step aside posted:

Didn't they drop Mac from the OS X branding? I'm guessing the real deal wouldn't say Mac OS X on the box.

10.8 drops Mac from the title. 10.7 is still known as Mac OSX

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Oneiros posted:

But hibernatemode 0 is so fast. :circlefap:

Seriously though, I've been running my laptops in mode 0 for over six years now with no issue. Unless you regularly run the battery down to near empty, leave it sleeping for months at a time, or have a complete battery failure it's not going to cause any problems.

What is this mode 0 you speak of?

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Bob Morales posted:

What is this mode 0 you speak of?
This breaks down the hibernate modes.

It's odd that he's reporting mode 0 being faster to wake, because wake time should be the same as default in almost every scenario. Going to sleep in mode 0 should be faster though since it doesn't write the RAM contents to disk before powering off.

edit: The only reason to use 0 is to save on SSD space/write cycles and even that's debatable. I used mode 0 when I had an Intel SSD a few years ago and OS X didn't support TRIM, but on my new machines I think it's pointless.

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jun 7, 2012

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

You Am I posted:

10.8 drops Mac from the title. 10.7 is still known as Mac OSX

It's actually been inconsistent, but on apple.com it's mostly referred to as "OS X Lion," and that's what I'd expect to be written on spec sheets for new Macs.

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



Star War Sex Parrot posted:

This breaks down the hibernate modes.

It's odd that he's reporting mode 0 being faster to wake, because wake time should be the same as default in almost every scenario. Going to sleep in mode 0 should be faster though since it doesn't write the RAM contents to disk before powering off.

The only reason to use 0 is to save on SSD space/write cycles and even that's debatable.

Yeah, wake time is the same between modes 0 and 3 (assuming you don't lose power). The main benefit of mode 0, for me, is the ultra-fast sleep. Close the lid and you're ready to go right then and there.

Honestly, it probably doesn't make that much of a difference with a SSD but I'm doing it out of habit from when I had a slow-rear end 5400 RPM Hitachi that took geological ages to sleep in mode 3 (and also liked to cause kernal panics when the SMS triggered during the sleep process).

e. Extra 8GB of free space doesn't hurt, either.

Oneiros fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jun 7, 2012

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

Sinestro posted:

Oh god I want that so bad.
I dunno, 2560x1600 at 15" is ~195 ppi which is about 45% more dense than the next smallest display (11 inch air, ~135 ppi). I think it'll be incredibly hard to use at native res without HiDPI.

They really need to either put in a 2880x1800 screen (effectively 1440x900 in HiDPI) or keep it to ~135 ppi, which I think is close to 1920x1200 at 15".

Of course, they could offer the 2560 one as a baseline with an upgrade to 2880, but I'd prefer they just put something larger than effectively 1280x800 to start with.

Mercurius fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jun 7, 2012

step aside
Sep 21, 2011

You Am I posted:

10.8 drops Mac from the title. 10.7 is still known as Mac OSX

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

The URL aside, everything there just says OS X Lion.

cbirdsong
Sep 8, 2004

Commodore of the Apocalypso
Lipstick Apathy

AlternateAccount posted:

HiDPI needs to really have a 50% or 75% mode which is smoother, but doesn't outright double. Would probably increase the size of apps way too much to have 3-4 different sets of their graphic assets, but it would be nice. You could even run the different apps in different HiDPI modes. That would be superkeen.

The reason HiDPI and 2x mode on iOS work so easily is that they simply double the number of pixels. Any app that doesn't support HiDPI will just look ugly, but function the same, since they can just multiply it by two.

I am not sure a retina Mac will be a very pleasant experience for the period just after it's released, and potentially much longer. Lots of older Mac apps that aren't being actively developed will probably never get retina updates, and there's no good way to deliver retina images on the web, so almost any picture or graphic online is going to look like crap.

NOTinuyasha
Oct 17, 2006

 
The Great Twist

thegasman2000 posted:

So the Air replaced the Macbook. Then they nerf the Macbook Pro and make that the new Macbook... This makes no sense. I just wanted a pro with no DVD SSD as standard and a retina display. or at least matching the Air's screen.

If they removed all spinning platter drives and added embedded RAM/SSD it would basically be an Air. I'm sure if they added 15 and 17-inch versions of the Air there's be enough room for the i7, discrete graphics, and a bigger battery to compensate thanks to the larger size, even if it is thinner then the old MBP.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cbirdsong posted:

The reason HiDPI and 2x mode on iOS work so easily is that they simply double the number of pixels. Any app that doesn't support HiDPI will just look ugly, but function the same, since they can just multiply it by two.

I am not sure a retina Mac will be a very pleasant experience for the period just after it's released, and potentially much longer. Lots of older Mac apps that aren't being actively developed will probably never get retina updates, and there's no good way to deliver retina images on the web, so almost any picture or graphic online is going to look like crap.

Where the analogy between iOS and OS X apps breaks down for me is that iOS apps can't be resized.

There absolutely needs to be more than that or at least I'm not going to buy MBPs anymore. Right now I have a 17" with 1920x1200. I highly doubt that Apple is going to effectively go "forget about all that and say hello to your IDE in glorious 1280x800 on a 15-inch :haw:" I know Boot Camp would give me the full resolution, but I'm not buying an MBP to primarily run Windows on it.

Wild EEPROM
Jul 29, 2011


oh, my, god. Becky, look at her bitrate.
If I wanted to fresh-install Lion, does this sound about right:

1) Download Lion from the Appstore
2) Extract the Install ESD from the package contents
3) Format a USB thumbdrive
4) Restore the InstallESD.dmg onto said USB thumbdrive
5) Shutdown, pull out the old HDD, swap in the new SSD
6) Plug in the newly created USB drive, boot while holding down option, select the USB drive, install.

Can I install Snow Leopard instead?
If I hook up my old hard drive via a USB enclosure, could I access Library from that drive? (For example, if I wanted to copy my Safari Extensions, which are located in ~/Library/Safari/Extensions, could I do that?)

Wild EEPROM fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jun 7, 2012

Small White Dragon
Nov 23, 2007

No relation.

flavor posted:

I know Boot Camp would give me the full resolution, but I'm not buying an MBP to primarily run Windows on it.
That could depend on the driver implementation...

thegasman2000
Feb 12, 2005
Update my TFLC log? BOLLOCKS!
/
:backtowork:
I have a customer who has 2 white C2D Macbooks and need batteries for them. Whats the best place to buy official batteries from? I am in the sucky UK....

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

flavor posted:

I know Boot Camp would give me the full resolution, but I'm not buying an MBP to primarily run Windows on it.
You won't need to do that. The current HiDPI implementation in Lion/Mountain Lion (through Quartz Debug in XCode) auto enables if you pick the effective resolution (1280x800 in this example), but the whole range of resolutions the display supports are selectable for people who enjoy eye-strain on tiny super high DPI screens.

Like you, I'd be amazed if they went from offering 1440x900 and 1680x1050 screen options on the 15" to having what's effectively 1280x800 as the only option.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Small White Dragon posted:

That could depend on the driver implementation...

Windows and the graphics card support the full resolutions of the display plus the Thunderbolt Display on the 17". Why wouldn't they support the resolutions of the new MBPs?.

Mercurius posted:

You won't need to do that. The current HiDPI implementation in Lion/Mountain Lion (through Quartz Debug in XCode) auto enables if you pick the effective resolution (1280x800 in this example), but the whole range of resolutions the display supports are selectable for people who enjoy eye-strain on tiny super high DPI screens.

That's why I'd like for them to keep the 17" by the way. Since they're apparently keeping the Mac Pro, I don't know why they wouldn't keep the 17". If anything, it's probably easier to design than the smaller ones and it's not like it needs its own production line like the Mac Pro.


Small White Dragon posted:

Like you, I'd be amazed if they went from offering 1440x900 and 1680x1050 screen options on the 15" to having what's effectively 1280x800 as the only option.

Considering also that this is supposed to accommodate people coming from even higher resolutions if they should drop the 17".

japtor
Oct 28, 2005

Mercurius posted:

You won't need to do that. The current HiDPI implementation in Lion/Mountain Lion (through Quartz Debug in XCode) auto enables if you pick the effective resolution (1280x800 in this example), but the whole range of resolutions the display supports are selectable for people who enjoy eye-strain on tiny super high DPI screens.

Like you, I'd be amazed if they went from offering 1440x900 and 1680x1050 screen options on the 15" to having what's effectively 1280x800 as the only option.
Yeah this is why I've been confused about people getting super excited about retina displays (without an unknown scaling mode at least), the current options with them would end up with an unusably tiny UI, or nice sharp UI but with less effective space to work with. Or run at lower resolution and deal with the blur...at which point you might as well just use the old displays.

The real solution is 4k resolutions :colbert:

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

japtor posted:

Yeah this is why I've been confused about people getting super excited about retina displays (without an unknown scaling mode at least), the current options with them would end up with an unusably tiny UI, or nice sharp UI but with less effective space to work with. Or run at lower resolution and deal with the blur...at which point you might as well just use the old displays.

The real solution is 4k resolutions :colbert:
Honestly, I'm quite happy with the amount of actual usable screen space I get with the 1680x1050 screen on my MBP, plus I think the text is just about the right size (slightly smaller than on the 27" panels used in the Thunderbolt Display/iMac). I think the 17" MBP's screen is about the same DPI as the 15" high res is currently, too. HiDPI is great and all but it means they need to somehow fit a 3360x2100 panel into the 15" MBP to keep it the same as what we have now.

Mr. Onslaught
Jun 25, 2005

For you, it was the last time you would ever post in YCS. But for me...it was Tuesday.
Do most of you iMac owners just leave it on all the time? Mine has an SSD, does that make any difference?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Mr. Onslaught posted:

Do most of you iMac owners just leave it on all the time? Mine has an SSD, does that make any difference?

I leave mine on 24/7 at work.

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Rockybar
Sep 3, 2008

I have an iMac from 2009 and whenever it goes into sleep mode, i.e. after you leave it for a while such that it's screen turns off, it disconnects from WiFi and is pretty anal about reconnecting, such that I usually have to turn it's WiFi on and off to get it to reconnect. Is there any way to keep it permanently connected? The WiFi on it is pretty dodgy anyway.

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