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I'm one of the five people who actually liked Nova, I thought the characters given how little development they had, though SRW improves the general blandness of it all a lot, as it is known to do.
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Jun 11, 2012 12:42
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TK-31 posted:I'm one of the five people who actually liked Nova, I thought the characters given how little development they had, though SRW improves the general blandness of it all a lot, as it is known to do. Even if Nova hadn't been kind of subpar overall, I probably wouldn't have liked it because I actually really liked the original Dancouga (though I'm apparently in the minority there?) and I was hoping for something a little more relevant to it.
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Jun 11, 2012 16:31
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Son Ryo posted:Even if Nova hadn't been kind of subpar overall, I probably wouldn't have liked it because I actually really liked the original Dancouga (though I'm apparently in the minority there?) and I was hoping for something a little more relevant to it. I like the original Dancougar in part because of how unique it is as a Super Robot show. I touched on this in my earlier infodump but the Dancougar anime puts a lot more emphasis on the individual characters and component mecha than the Dancougar itself. I actually like that they made it largely character driven, and I happen to like the cast. It was also the show with one Norio Wakamoto's breakout roles so I approve of it by that measure.
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Jun 11, 2012 17:50
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Fun fact: When I got Dancouga Nova for the first time in this game, I didn't actually know it could transform. I just thought it was one of those stupid sidekick robots and so benched it forever. By the time I did figure out it could transform (from one of its obligatory missions) I already had original Dancouga and liked them better. So I never used Dancouga Nova. Also, loving the LP. I'm at the end of the game and the first time I've ever lost just came up. drat you Lord Genome, drat you.
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Jun 11, 2012 19:01
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"Genocidrons"  But if that's what we have to put up with to get lines like this... Caphi posted:Setsuna replies: "You... are not Gundam." Crowe is confused. ...it's worth it.  From one thing to another, however: Caphi posted:
What have they done to this poor robot? Haros are supposed to be green, man, green.
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Jun 11, 2012 19:28
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Observing the Blaster! Observing the Blaster!
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vilkacis posted:What have they done to this poor robot? Haros are supposed to be green, man, green. I still don't understand why they've been putting Haros in everything since SEED.
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Jun 11, 2012 20:24
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Son Ryo posted:I still don't understand why they've been putting Haros in everything since SEED. I wish they would have started earlier so we could have had a Haro piloting a Haro Gundam in G Gundam. Would have taken that over the snake charmer guy any day.
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Jun 11, 2012 21:02
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Hikarusa posted:I wish they would have started earlier so we could have had a Haro piloting a Haro Gundam in G Gundam. Would have taken that over the snake charmer guy any day. SD Gundam has you covered.
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Jun 11, 2012 21:09
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Son Ryo posted:I still don't understand why they've been putting Haros in everything since SEED. Because there are few things cheaper to make than a ball of plastic with stickers for eyes and a line for a mouth, and putting Haro in everything means those balls of plastic can be sold for mad cash. 
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Jun 11, 2012 21:22
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vilkacis posted:What have they done to this poor robot? Haros are supposed to be green, man, green. You better not watch Gundam 00, then.
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Jun 11, 2012 21:24
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Son Ryo posted:I still don't understand why they've been putting Haros in everything since SEED. In SEED it was because the writers were hacks. Haros are there mostly because people like Haros and the goal is that by proxy they'll like SEED, there is absolutely no reason why Athrun made Lacus and pile of Haros to follow he around. It's the same reason why SEED DESTINY doesn't bother making new mass produced mobile suits for ZAFT and just brings back the Zaku, Gouf, and Dom. In 00 the Haros are still fanservice but they actually do stuff, Haros are Support AIs like the one we saw in Victory Gundam. Lock-On's Haro helps him fly the Dynames while he's focused on sniping. We'll meet another person later in the game with a Haro, and S2 (featured in Z2.2) has a third pilot who has a Haro to help him fly his unit and reveals the Celestial Being mothership is partially run by Haros. Here's the scary part: That goofy looking Haro mobile armor is actually really good. Those bubbles it fires can sink a battleship. You haven't seen true horror until you've seen what you can upgrade it into. Fear the Psycho Haro!
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Jun 11, 2012 22:24
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Omnicrom posted:In SEED it was because the writers were hacks. Haros are there mostly because people like Haros and the goal is that by proxy they'll like SEED, there is absolutely no reason why Athrun made Lacus and pile of Haros to follow he around. It's the same reason why SEED DESTINY doesn't bother making new mass produced mobile suits for ZAFT and just brings back the Zaku, Gouf, and Dom. Wait, I never watched SEED, and pretty much my entire experience with it is through SRW J, so what? Are you saying that they didn't make new MS designs for DESTINY and just used the old ones from SEED, or that they literally used Zakus, Goufs and Doms? Cause if so, then that's pretty
Alacron fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 22:42
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Alacron posted:Wait, I never watched SEED, and pretty much my entire experience with it is through SRW J, so what? Are you saying that they didn't make new MS designs for DESTINY and just used the old ones from SEED, or that they literally used Zakus, Goufs and Doms? I'm so confused. They made some new designs, but the new mainstays of the Zaft fleet are slightly re-designed Zakus - excuse me, Zaft Armed Keepers of Unity.  Honestly, I'd be able to forgive that (I mean, the GINN was basically a Zaku with useless wings anyway) if the rest of the show weren't poo poo.
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Jun 11, 2012 22:45
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Alacron posted:Wait, I never watched SEED, and pretty much my entire experience with it is through SRW J, so what? Are you saying that they didn't make new MS designs for DESTINY and just used the old ones from SEED, or that they literally used Zakus, Goufs and Doms? Cause if so, then that's pretty They made a few new ones, but yeah, they literally reused Zakus, Goufs, and Doms. Except now ZAKU is some awful acronym, Zaft something Keeper of Unity I think.
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Jun 11, 2012 22:47
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Omnicrom posted:In 00 the Haros are still fanservice but they actually do stuff, Haros are Support AIs like the one we saw in Victory Gundam. Lock-On's Haro helps him fly the Dynames while he's focused on sniping. We'll meet another person later in the game with a Haro, and S2 (featured in Z2.2) has a third pilot who has a Haro to help him fly his unit and reveals the Celestial Being mothership is partially run by Haros. And that is why the Haros are stupid in 00. In SEED they're harmless fanservice. In 00 they represent crazy powerful AIs that nobody ever exploits in a sensible way. The Haros are amongst the worst things in a show full of stupid poo poo. I hate the idea of adding a setting-changing thing as fanservice and then basically ignoring it. Aside from having Lockon's dumb Haro repeat his name over and over and having Saji replaced by a Haro at the end of 00S2. Fanservice bothers more more when they try to make it a plot point. (See also: ZAKUs) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 22:51
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Spiritus Nox posted:They made some new designs, but the new mainstays of the Zaft fleet are slightly re-designed Zakus - excuse me, Zaft Armed Keepers of Unity. Yeah that's what I was confused about, I remember the GINN from SRW and how much it looked like a Zaku so I was pretty confused. Out of curiosity I just went to the Gundam Wiki (unsurprisingly there's a Gundam Wiki) and looked up the ZAKU, GOUF and DOM. And here I was under the impression that SEED DESTINY ripped off Zeta Gundam
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Jun 11, 2012 23:10
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Alacron posted:Yeah that's what I was confused about, I remember the GINN from SRW and how much it looked like a Zaku so I was pretty confused. From what I understand from plot summaries - Destiny's biggest failing seems to be that it wasn't very well planned out (as evidenced by the fact they change which character you're supposed to sympathise with halfway through the loving show) and that the writers couldn't seem to decide how closely they wanted to hew to the Zeta mould. If it had had a more coherent plot planned out from the start and they'd gone all the way either with being a Zeta homage or its own thing.
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Jun 11, 2012 23:18
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Omnicrom posted:Here's the scary part: That goofy looking Haro mobile armor is actually really good. Those bubbles it fires can sink a battleship. You haven't seen true horror until you've seen what you can upgrade it into. Fear the Psycho Haro! It looks like a giant evil Kirby...
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Jun 12, 2012 00:42
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Spiritus Nox posted:From what I understand from plot summaries - Destiny's biggest failing seems to be that it wasn't very well planned out (as evidenced by the fact they change which character you're supposed to sympathise with halfway through the loving show) and that the writers couldn't seem to decide how closely they wanted to hew to the Zeta mould. If it had had a more coherent plot planned out from the start and they'd gone all the way either with being a Zeta homage or its own thing. I believe the biggest failing of SEED Destiny was the fact that either the director or the creator is unhappy that people like the SRW versions of his sh....oddy anime better than his version. If you hadn't screwed up the first time, we'd have liked Destiny more and not wished Astray were in more games. Or maybe that's just me.
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Jun 12, 2012 00:54
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Son Ryo posted:I still don't understand why they've been putting Haros in everything since SEED. Gundam series that don't have Haro in them are actually more rare than the ones that do. I think G, Wing, and Turn-A are the only series that don't?
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Jun 12, 2012 00:55
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Silentman0 posted:Gundam series that don't have Haro in them are actually more rare than the ones that do. I think G, Wing, and Turn-A are the only series that don't? I don't think X did either. But it at least makes sense for them to appear in all the Universal Century series.
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Jun 12, 2012 01:13
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On the issue of Genocidrons, I'm pretty sure that those are the technical name for the enemy mooks from Gravion. I'm fairly certain that while they're known as Zeravier or something like that, later events show that their name is actually Genocidron, or however you spell that.
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Jun 12, 2012 01:13
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Silentman0 posted:Gundam series that don't have Haro in them are actually more rare than the ones that do. I think G, Wing, and Turn-A are the only series that don't? Gundam X doesn't have Haros either. They were brought back in SEED and have been in every Gundam since. As for SEED DESTINY there were a lot of problems throughout. Just for starters the Head Writer, Chiaki Morosawa, was the wife of the director, Mitsuo Fukuda. This meant that the two had near total creative control over the series and they can and did play favorites. The story goes that Kira and Lacus are author surrogates for Fukuda and Morosawa and therefore it's sad but not really surprising when the two of them hijack the last quarter of the show. The head writer also wasn't a good choice even besides her personal feelings, she simply wasn't up to the job of running a weekly series. Previously all she had done was an episode of Outlaw Star, 2 OVAs, and the rough series overview and four draft scripts for Gear Fighter Dendoh. For DESTINY Morosawa not only planned the series but apparently wrote all the scripts; she wasn't able to keep up and frequently turned in scripts late which causes two of the final ten episodes to be pointless clipshows simply because the rest of the crew had no material. Morosawa was also disliked by the rest of the staff, the head artist had a post on his blog (since deleted) where he blasted the writing staff because it called for almost nothing but endless flashy stock footage and reserved special scorn to Morosawa for a love story that he called "Completely Absurd". The actors for Cagalli and Dearka both were also disgusted by the actions of their characters and washed their hands of the roles, this is why Cagalli and Dearka are no longer in any voiced SRW game. Cagalli, formerly an action girl who fought Mobile Suits with an assault rifle was reduced to a damsel in distress in a forced marriage, and the aforementioned Love Story was created to break up Cagalli and Athrun who had a romantic subplot throughout SEED. Cagalli and Dearka were conspicuously absent in SRW Z, their pilot profiles are in the game if you use a hacking device but they just have AI beeps and no dialogue which suggests that they were intended but the actors bowed out. Meanwhile SRW K and L which both included DESTINY and lacked a voice track made a point to have the pair join as excellent pilots. Thankfully this boycott by the actors may be over as Cagalli did a recent promo for an upcoming Gundam SEED game with new lines. As for reused Mecha Fukuda, who was also director of Gundam SEED, famously said in an interview he revised the plot so Dearka Elsman change sides in Gundam SEED because he wanted the Buster Gundam to sell more model kits and people buy more hero MS kits than villains. It's no surprise therefore that they brought back the Zaku, Gouf, and Dom rather than invent new variations on the GINN from SEED, One Year War mecha are extremely popular. That's not the only weird and controversial thing Fukuda has said in an interview, for instance he's said that Kira and Mwu la Flaga are newtypes even though they've never demonstrated any newtype abilities and they've explained how SEED's funnel weapons work, or that Athrun was always the main character of SEED DESTINY when it's pretty clear that it was initially supposed to be Shinn who gets sidelined at the end of the series. So considering the weird priorities of both director and writer it's easy to see why DESTINY is not remembered favorably and that's just the behind the scenes stuff. There's plenty of other issues, the lack of planning about Neo Roanoke, the lack of character development for Shinn, Athrun going through the exact same character arc he had in SEED, entire episodes where the characters flew around and shot mooks, the ENDLESS stock footage some of which was even reused from SEED because of how badly they mismanaged their budget, Jesus Yamato, the nonsensical Destiny plan, Meer being badly used in every way, the copypasted ending, and on and on. Frankly I'm not surprised that Fukuda and Morosawa don't like Super Robot Wars. SRW makes the story about Shinn and not Kira, it castigates Kira and shows him as the sanctimonious moron he was, it depicts ORB (another of the pair's sacred cows) in a bad light, and frankly fixes the series by doing deep and extensive editing on it.
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Jun 12, 2012 02:20
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Omnicrom posted:Gundam X doesn't have Haros either. They were brought back in SEED and have been in every Gundam since. Haha, wow that does sound like a trainwreck of a production. I'm starting to realize just how much Z1, at least, had to edit. I never realized we were supposed to sympathise with Orb, for instance, though I knew Shin gets booted late.
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Jun 12, 2012 02:53
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Yeah it's funny. Most SRWs usually play the series straight on their premiere before doing crazy stuff with it in later games. With SEED Destiny they went straight to the playing with.
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Jun 12, 2012 03:27
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And here's Aoi. For a good half of the game, she is one of the two WORST protagonist pilots available. More often than not, she'll be spending time in the Nova Eagle (which loving sucks by the way) due to the will prerequisite on combining. She is also stuck with her terrible, terrible SP pool as a solo pilot, which limits her to one or two spirit castings per fight. Add in her not-too-stellar stats and the fact that the Nova Eagle is geared more towards Ranged weaponry than Melee (although just having that mixed-weapon setup is more a hindrance than help on any unit) and you have a recipe for disaster. She gets better later, but on my first playthrough, I didn't give a poo poo and kept her benched. She's not as dire as the OTHER Worst Protagonist, though. I'll gripe about his useless rear end when we get him.
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Jun 12, 2012 10:08
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Gulping Again posted:And here's Aoi. Well now I'm curious. Mind spoiling who you consider the worst?
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Jun 12, 2012 23:38
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TheBystander posted:Well now I'm curious. Mind spoiling who you consider the worst? I'd say Heero, but we've already seen him...Lelouch? He is a pretty poo poo pilot, if I remember correctly..
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Jun 12, 2012 23:47
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Crummelhorn posted:I'd say Heero, but we've already seen him...Lelouch? He is a pretty poo poo pilot, if I remember correctly.. Well, in all fairness, that's kind of the point, isn't it? And doesn't he get some unique ability that lets him buff other pilots to reflect how he spent the show barking orders and concocting mad schemes?
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Jun 12, 2012 23:50
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Crummelhorn posted:I'd say Heero, but we've already seen him...Lelouch? He is a pretty poo poo pilot, if I remember correctly.. There's no way. Gawain makes up for Lelouch's crappiness.
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Jun 12, 2012 23:53
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Crummelhorn posted:I'd say Heero, but we've already seen him...Lelouch? He is a pretty poo poo pilot, if I remember correctly.. Lelouch isn't supposed to be a good pilot, if you're using his turn shooting something you've completely wasted his turn. But that's ok, because the Gawain is completely loving baller.
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Jun 13, 2012 00:13
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Renton is the worst protagonist pilot. The only things that make him usable is his ace bonus and the fact that Nirvash MkV is really motherfucking powerful. If anyone OTHER than Renton used it, it would be world-ruining. Garrod is not counted in this despite being a protagonist because seriously, who gives a poo poo about him and his awful mech? When support units have better attack power than your machine, you have problems.
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Jun 13, 2012 00:15
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Spiritus Nox posted:Well, in all fairness, that's kind of the point, isn't it? And doesn't he get some unique ability that lets him buff other pilots to reflect how he spent the show barking orders and concocting mad schemes?
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Jun 13, 2012 00:52
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Gulping Again posted:
gently caress you too, buddy.  I hate absolutely everything about the Nirvash spec V. I hate its look, its attacks, its music, everything.
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Jun 13, 2012 00:53
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Gulping Again posted:Renton is the worst protagonist pilot. The only things that make him usable is his ace bonus and the fact that Nirvash MkV is really motherfucking powerful. If anyone OTHER than Renton used it, it would be world-ruining. Is Garrod that much worse in this game? I thought he was pretty solid in Z - not an extremely powerful mech but generally capable of keeping up with the competition, and the HASSHA!!! was always fun to use.
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Jun 13, 2012 00:54
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Spiritus Nox posted:Is Garrod that much worse in this game? I thought he was pretty solid in Z - not an extremely powerful mech but generally capable of keeping up with the competition, and the HASSHA!!! was always fun to use. Garrod is one of the worst choices for Gundam DX, which is turn one of the worst mecha in the game and easily the worst protagonist unit in the game. DX is so bad that when you get the Gundam X Divider in Z2.2, it is a much better unit overall even though DX gets an upgrade on the same stage you get Gundam X.
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Jun 13, 2012 00:58
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Tobias Grant posted:I hate absolutely everything about the Nirvash spec V. I hate its look, its attacks, its music, everything. What's wrong with its music?
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Jun 13, 2012 02:44
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Silentman0 posted:What's wrong with its music? It's not as good as Days or Sakura?  I want the TV Nirvash back...
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Jun 13, 2012 03:07
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Silentman0 posted:What's wrong with its music?
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Jun 13, 2012 03:08
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ImpAtom posted:And that is why the Haros are stupid in 00. In SEED they're harmless fanservice. In 00 they represent crazy powerful AIs that nobody ever exploits in a sensible way. The Haros are amongst the worst things in a show full of stupid poo poo. I hate the idea of adding a setting-changing thing as fanservice and then basically ignoring it. Aside from having Lockon's dumb Haro repeat his name over and over and having Saji replaced by a Haro at the end of 00S2. Fanservice bothers more more when they try to make it a plot point. (See also: ZAKUs) To be fair though, 00 also has Quantum Computers which are all kinds of broken. Veda is so powerful that it continually predicts people's reactions to things with alarming accuracy and humans are fairly problematic to model behaviourally. I always assumed the Haros in 00 were just computers that had specialised programs with a basic cutesy personality. The Haro we saw is there to support Dynames and then later the Red Haro acts as a support for the 0 Raiser. It's clear that the Haro can do everything that Saji can for the 0 Raiser, and this is a setting with Quantum Computation so I think the problem is more a sufficient justification for Saji's presence after its debut. And I think that's mostly because Saji wants to try and communicate with Louise again more than anything else. I can't really see why the Haros specifically were a problem. All Gundam series essentially recycle the same plot for the large part, so having the consistent elements makes sense. Plus, mascots. 
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