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ImpAtom posted:If you think FFXIII was literally painful, FFXIII-2 isn't going to change your mind. It's almost identical except with a stupider plot, more poorly balanced combat and (relatively) less linearity. I think the stupider plot is endearing, personally; maybe because they aren't always so self serious all the time.
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Jun 13, 2012 19:45
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That loving Sned posted:This September, Final Fantasy III DS is getting re-released for the PSP in Japan. As I understand it was a straight port that 1. relied entirely on touch screen controls (of course) and 2. removed the stupid online messaging thing to unlock onion knights and the secret boss and whatever and 3. higher resolution. Aside from having no touch screen controls whatsoever the PSP one should be pretty similar. What problems did 3 have?
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Jun 13, 2012 19:45
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Pesky Splinter posted:Hey, ImpAtom, I've only got so much time, and so much hate to go around. and no PS3 to hate it on Well, you're using that hatred wisely on DmC so I can't complain.  Cityinthesea posted:I think the stupider plot is endearing, personally; maybe because they aren't always so self serious all the time. I just couldn't stand the endless repetitive cutscenes filled with them effectively screaming the word PARADOX over and over. The nonlinearity hurt because there was no way to be sure the players had information and so they decided on redundancy. I can deal with the stupid but redundant stupid drives me crazy. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 19:46
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ImpAtom posted:Well, you're using that hatred wisely on DmC. So much hate  I've only played about an hour of FFXIII-2, so can't comment on the plot proper, but redundancy was the real problem I had with XIII. So much poo poo they could have cut and it would have made it smoother.
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Jun 13, 2012 19:50
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I bet you like 10 don't you Pesky Splinter? Seems that everyone who really hated 13 inexplicably loved 10 as well.
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Jun 13, 2012 19:50
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voltron lion force posted:I bet you like 10 don't you Pesky Splinter? Seems that everyone who really hated 13 inexplicably loved 10 as well. Bits of X. Only bits. Mostly Auron or Jeckt related.
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Jun 13, 2012 19:51
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I at least thought that once you got to Academia, the plot definitely became less repetitive and more interesting, so maybe I blocked out the earlier parts. There's still a lot more levity in 13-2, regardless of how many times they say Paradox. 13 still has better characters, but 13-2 was paced a lot better than 13 was I thought. Some parts of 13 were just huge drags (that loving airship), where 13-2 never had one of those super long, annoying areas.
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Jun 13, 2012 19:53
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I didn't enjoy the "plot" of FF13-2, but I enjoyed the "story". Caius was hardly an interesting villain but I liked travelling across time and fixing paradox problems with two likeable heroes (and Mog). It reminded me of FFTA2 where I didn't care to play the story, but I liked adventuring in the game's world and that counts for something.
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Jun 13, 2012 20:55
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der juicen posted:But but but I love cutscenes. Despite what people will tell you, it's okay to like FFXIII. There are some great things about that game. Even better, XIII-2 is a total improvement.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:04
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I kinda really do though.
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voltron lion force posted:Problem with giving it pass because of age is that they made a perfectly good game right before it. 2 is awful in a lot of ways but mainly people hate it because of how much worse it was compared to 1. 8 and 13 at least had some redeeming qualities. I'm struggling to think of any for 2. I give 2 a pass for being an experiment that didn't quite work out right. Like, it has good ideas, they just weren't executed well.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:12
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Azure_Horizon posted:Despite what people will tell you, it's okay to like FFXIII. There are some great things about that game. Even better, XIII-2 is a total improvement. Honestly XIII was just exactly the opposite of what I was looking for at the time, and I gave up on it early in the game. However I was impressed SE took it in such a different direction (just not a direction I liked).
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Jun 13, 2012 21:13
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p.crestmont posted:Honestly XIII was just exactly the opposite of what I was looking for at the time, and I gave up on it early in the game. However I was impressed SE took it in such a different direction (just not a direction I liked). I didn't have a problem with the linearity because XII gave me a bunch of nonlinearity and was also one of the worst games I've ever put into a game console. Most everything XIII did was just a step up for me, needed to cleanse my palette.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:19
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If FFXII is one of the worst games you've ever put into a game console you must have put the most awesome games ever printed to disc into it beforehand.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:20
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Azure_Horizon posted:I didn't have a problem with the linearity because XII gave me a bunch of nonlinearity and was also one of the worst games I've ever put into a game console. Most everything XIII did was just a step up for me, needed to cleanse my palette. It is just different tastes; I loved XII and couldn't believe when I heard some people didn't. I was genuinely confused, like they couldn't have been playing the same game or something...
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Jun 13, 2012 21:24
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Dr Pepper posted:If FFXII is one of the worst games you've ever put into a game console you must have put the most awesome games ever printed to disc into it beforehand. I did, actually; SMT: Nocturne, Shadow Hearts 1-2-3, DDS 1-2, and most any other game I played on PS2. Actually, every other game I played on PS2.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:27
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Dr Pepper posted:I give 2 a pass for being an experiment that didn't quite work out right. Like, it has good ideas, they just weren't executed well. They are executed so poorly as to tarnish the quality of the ideas themselves in peoples' minds. The way the Agility/evade/armor system works in that game is one of the most inspired pieces of awful design I've ever experienced in anything.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:30
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p.crestmont posted:It is just different tastes; I loved XII and couldn't believe when I heard some people didn't. I was genuinely confused, like they couldn't have been playing the same game or something... XII is terrible. The Zodiac version is actually very playable and fun. The difference is actually having all the drat gambits so I can just play the game instead of constantly checking shops and looking for gambits to do what I want. It still doesn't solve how incredibly awful the late game dungeons are. Shame about that.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:30
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Hey, speaking of XII! I just ordered it for the low, low price of $6.59 and wondered if there's anything I need to know before getting into it (the vanilla version). I've always been planning on checking it out, as a friend of mine really likes it and thought I would too, so pretty much the only things I know about it are the PC's awful design and the Matsuno-setting. Goons seem to have a somewhat mixed opinion about it, but it was so cheap I just couldn't resist. My favorite FFs are IX and Tactics, if that influences anything. Any info is greatly appreciated! 
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Jun 13, 2012 21:44
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Once you recruit all six characters, you can pretty much decide whoever you want to use and just use those people for the rest of the game, as there aren't any forced sequences like in 10 where "whoops, we're suddenly underwater hope you leveled Wakka". So if you want to pretend the main character doesn't exist, you can.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:47
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Once you recruit all six characters, you can pretty much decide whoever you want to use and just use those people for the rest of the game, as there aren't any forced sequences like in 10 where "whoops, we're suddenly underwater hope you leveled Wakka". On the off chance I ever try this game again, I need to remember this.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:52
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Looper posted:Hey, speaking of XII! I just ordered it for the low, low price of $6.59 and wondered if there's anything I need to know before getting into it (the vanilla version). I've always been planning on checking it out, as a friend of mine really likes it and thought I would too, so pretty much the only things I know about it are the PC's awful design and the Matsuno-setting. Goons seem to have a somewhat mixed opinion about it, but it was so cheap I just couldn't resist. My favorite FFs are IX and Tactics, if that influences anything. Any info is greatly appreciated! Walking restores MP and save points do to. Quickenings should be aimed for ASAP for your main characters. Each quickening significantly increases your maximum MP gauge permanently but by purchasing the quickening on the license board you prevent any other character from buying it. Pick your favorite 3 and get them the easy ones. Just look up the license board. There is no reason for the game to withhold that information from you and by being able to see the whole thing you'll be able to plan out your characters with far more ease. Gambits are the game. Buy as many as you can always. Simple ones like heal when below x hp are good but setting up things like steal when enemy hp 100% or if not hasted haste are better. Buffs are valuable as heck. No character, despite what their starting gear tells you, is locked into a role. They can be anything and wield anything you want them to. Look up hunts before doing them, the game gives you about zero inclination of how strong they will be and its very easy to think "oh this will be easy" and then get 2 shot.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:57
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Zombies' Downfall posted:So if you want to pretend the main character doesn't exist, you can. ^^^Best advice. Leave the kid with grotesque/hilarious abs in a ditch and Balthier is your new main character, and he uses a sword and shield. Give Ashe the gun.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:57
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But that's lame ignoring half the party members. Plus, in the International version that means you can only use three of the classes!
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Jun 13, 2012 21:58
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Looper posted:Hey, speaking of XII! I just ordered it for the low, low price of $6.59 and wondered if there's anything I need to know before getting into it (the vanilla version). I've always been planning on checking it out, as a friend of mine really likes it and thought I would too, so pretty much the only things I know about it are the PC's awful design and the Matsuno-setting. Goons seem to have a somewhat mixed opinion about it, but it was so cheap I just couldn't resist. My favorite FFs are IX and Tactics, if that influences anything. Any info is greatly appreciated! Early on in the game you'll be tasked with visiting a wise man that lives in the sewers. Just outside his home will be a chest. Don't open it. Later you'll find yourself sneaking into a palace. There are chests in there. Don't open them. After being captured you'll find a stash that contains all the equipment that was taken from you. In this area are chests. Don't open them. Finally you may find yourself walking along a beach and spotting a collection of chests arranged in an unusual fashion. Don't open these chests. More general tips: You want to be spending most of your LP on the top license board, specifically the bottom left section is where all the stat boosts and passive abilities are. Remember that if you don't have the spell or item that a license uses then there is no reason to take it until you do. Don't worry about meticulously upgrading your equipment. You'll be short on money at first so just upgrade weapons and armor every other tier or so. Magic isn't all that good in the vanilla version. Focus on getting the buff and healing spells but don't bother with attack magics or most debuffs. Better to just attack things.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:59
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I just got bored playing FFXII and didn't care to finish it. I think I would probably think it's awesome if they released the Zodiac version for 360 and put in some kind of local co-op or something. FFXII isn't a bad game... it's just very.... meh. It's story isn't offensively retarded, and that is a enormous plus for a modern Final Fantasy, but it is kinda... bland. Game has pretty good art design. Gameplay is decent. Pretty much the first ever FF game with sucky music, though, unless you count Tactics Advance. I'm pretty sure the music's done by the same guy. When talking about crappy FF games, can we mention spinoffs? I wasn't a big fan of Crystal Chronicles. Gorgeous graphics and art design, but the gameplay was just kinda crappy and the game was boring. I'm sure it would probably be more fun multiplayer... but you had to have 4 GBAs and link cables to do it. And whenever I would suggest getting together and playing Crystal Chronicles with my friends, I got a resounding "gently caress no."
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Jun 13, 2012 22:18
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Zombies' Downfall posted:So if you want to pretend the main character doesn't exist, you can. Back when I played 12, I basically did just this. Balthier/Basch/Ashe. Works fantastically until you somehow get yourself killed doing some high level endgame content and all your backups are level 8 with lovely gear. Never played IZJS though: I expect I'd have more of a reason to rotate between all six if I had.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:18
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Looper posted:Hey, speaking of XII! [...]Any info is greatly appreciated! Run really, really fast in the opposite direction. Unless you like reading history books. FF12 is basically a history book with all the relevant facts. However, history makes for neither an interesting story or interesting characters, and both are in terribly short supply in FF12. But if you don't mind soulless archetypes with no character growth from the time you meet the characters to the end of the game dancing around in a fantasy history book-plus-atlas, then you'll probably like FF12. But if you insist on playing it, just remember: Haste + Berserk. That is all you'll ever need to kill almost anything, and it's all you'll ever need to kill anything that's part of the main storyline. That, and keep an eye on bosses' health bars: at about 10%, they enrage like in WoW or whatever: they gain a shitton of defense and magic resistance, they become invincible for two to five minutes, and they are free to pound your supple rear end with whatever desperation moves they have while their HP regenerates as they are invincible. And they keep all their stat and defense buffs even though they're out of low-HP range. You'll absolutely want to drop your MP Limit Break things when they get near that range but not quite in it. It's really, really loving boring and annoying, so do your best to not end up in that situation. (Mechanically, Haste doubles your attack speed while Berserk doubles both your attack speed AND your physical damage, and they stack on top of that) Fur20 fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 22:19
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Wow that was fast, thanks!voltron lion force posted:Early on in the game you'll be tasked with visiting a wise man that lives in the sewers. Just outside his home will be a chest. Don't open it. Is this something like the time-travel shenanigans with some of Chrono Trigger's chests? Will I know when to open them or should I just look it up later? The White Dragon posted:Run really, really fast in the opposite direction. Unless you like reading history books. I do like reading history books, actually. 
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Jun 13, 2012 22:31
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Barudak posted:It still doesn't solve how incredibly awful the late game dungeons are. Shame about that. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed the Great Crystal and the Pharos. Then again, I'm also biased because XII International is my favorite FF. EDIT: Looper posted:Is this something like the time-travel shenanigans with some of Chrono Trigger's chests? Will I know when to open them or should I just look it up later? Those are linked to another set that hold better things. When you take one set, the other set will disappear entirely. Incidentally, I think the early-game ones (everything but the beach) might be a bug. The ones on the beach are in the exact same pattern as the good set, when the rest aren't. And  for history fans!
Miracon fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 22:31
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Gammatron 64 posted:When talking about crappy FF games, can we mention spinoffs? I wasn't a big fan of Crystal Chronicles. Gorgeous graphics and art design, but the gameplay was just kinda crappy and the game was boring. I'm sure it would probably be more fun multiplayer... but you had to have 4 GBAs and link cables to do it. And whenever I would suggest getting together and playing Crystal Chronicles with my friends, I got a resounding "gently caress no." Its a great game except one of your friends doesn't get to play. See somebody has to hold a magic chalice that keeps you alive in dungeons and that person cannot do anything but move and hold the magic chalice. ASYMMETRICAL GAMEPLAY! FF GB games were a lot of fun but good lord did they not care about gameplay balance or coherent stories.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:32
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Miracon posted:Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed the Great Crystal and the Pharos. Masochist. That useless map...so many wrong turns.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:33
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"History does not make for interesting stories or characters" - someone with bad opinions on both history and FFLooper posted:Is this something like the time-travel shenanigans with some of Chrono Trigger's chests? Will I know when to open them or should I just look it up later? You'll never need to open them and they don't contain anything useful anyways. But by not opening them you'll be allowed to collect one of the best weapons in the game eventually. Its one of SE's most blatant "gently caress you completionists" moments.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:35
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Miracon posted:Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed the Great Crystal and the Pharos. Then again, I'm also biased because XII International is my favorite FF. You are in the minority. Those were awful, awful dungeons that international can't fix. Looper posted:Is this something like the time-travel shenanigans with some of Chrono Trigger's chests? Will I know when to open them or should I just look it up later? No. In fact thats why we're telling you. Its a "gently caress you buy a guide" moment that everyone bitched about. By not opening those chests you guarantee that a later chest will contain the Zodiac Spear which is a very, very good weapon and that chest is much, much earlier in the game than just about any other end game equipment. If you don't do this, your chance of getting a Zodiac Spear is like 1/256 from a random chest in the middle of nowhere.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:35
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Looper posted:I do like reading history books, actually. Well, there you go, I'm sure you'll like it then. Me, I hate history books. I'm very, very much from the Roald Dahl school. voltron lion force posted:"History does not make for interesting stories or characters" - someone with bad opinions on both history and FF See and now you're just purposefully misconstruing my meaning. Matsuno doesn't write stories or characters, but para-historical events. This has lots of potential for the blockbuster hit of the summer, because there's tons of stuff throughout history with folks killin' the poo poo out of each other in giant battles and buildings exploding and collapsing and weird artifacts from forgotten cultures etc., but that's all very superficial. From a storytelling perspective? For developing individuals for a reader (or a player, in this case) to relate to? Really lacking. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 22:37
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FFXII has some incredibly beautiful areas + art direction so enjoy the polish that the game has in that regard. Additionally, the game features good (and some great) characters but has a fairly uninspired plot. Don't think about things too hard and enjoy the gameplay. It's like solving a puzzle rather than 'It plays the game for you!' like some people whine.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:54
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So some chests have variable contents that can be manipulated by other chests? Huh, weird.The White Dragon posted:Well, there you go, I'm sure you'll like it then. Me, I hate history books. I'm very, very much from the Roald Dahl school. Yeah, I'm one of those weirdos who loving loves lore and the like. I'll play through the Metroid Prime games and scan the poo poo out of everything I see not because I care about unlocking art galleries or whatever (though I kinda do) but because I just love reading through the logbook.  It's one of the things I like about Matsuno, with all the world-building.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:54
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LoudLoudNoise posted:FFXII has some incredibly beautiful areas + art direction so enjoy the polish that the game has in that regard. Additionally, the game features good (and some great) characters but has a fairly uninspired plot. Don't think about things too hard and enjoy the gameplay. It's like solving a puzzle rather than 'It plays the game for you!'. Yeah the "it plays the game for you" thing is silly since you can not only manually control everything but a lot of boss fights can be expedited significantly through proper gambit setup and planning which is the core of the gameplay. Which is why playing the vanilla version is terrible because you don't have all the gambits.
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Jun 13, 2012 22:56
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Barudak posted:Yeah the "it plays the game for you" thing is silly since you can not only manually control everything but a lot of boss fights can be expedited significantly through proper gambit setup and planning which is the core of the gameplay. Which is why playing the vanilla version is terrible because you don't have all the gambits. It's almost like an extra challenge playing the vanilla version of the game since you have to work around arbitrary limitations until everything is finally unlocked.
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Jun 13, 2012 23:06
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Pesky Splinter posted:Masochist. The Pharos is straightforward, it's just long. The Great Crystal's story area is also straightforward. The Great Crystal's optional area is confusing, yeah, but I enjoyed making a map of it with pen and paper. Before that, it had been a very long time since I had done that for a game.
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Jun 13, 2012 23:07
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The White Dragon posted:See and now you're just purposefully misconstruing my meaning. Ha I did do that but dammit don't talk poo poo on 12 I think that all that pseudo-historical stuff that Matsuno does makes for a really interesting RPG but it doesn't seem to go over well with FF fans since the series is almost always focused squarely on the characters. It worked a lot better in Tactics I guess.
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Jun 13, 2012 23:11
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