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Ragequit posted:Here is an updated version of the site all thanks to Gibbed! http://gib.bo.lt/finalfantasyviipc Looking at all of the character art, it dawned on me that Nomura can't draw wrists.
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Jun 20, 2012 03:50
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Himuro posted:Nooooo Hey, Bards are good to have in FF5. It's like the only game in the series where they're actually useful. Speaking of things whose usefulness varies by game, blue magic always carrys the day in my current run. It can do anything, sometimes better than the other types of magic. I find it strange, though, since 5 and 7 are the only games where it's useful; in 6, Lores were severely underpowered. Never finished 8, 9, or 10, but I remember them being not particularly good in those three games, either. Weird.
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Jun 20, 2012 03:54
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I've never bothered with bards in FF5 in the half dozen of times playing it. So either way this will be a refreshing experience.
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Jun 20, 2012 04:00
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Quistis's Blue Magic was pretty drat good in FF8.
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Jun 20, 2012 04:01
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Himuro posted:Nooooo Trust me dogg Bard is a pimp and if you ever run into problems with bosses, they make EXP grinding both fast and painless. Anywhere with Undeads is great; I already mentioned Deep Sea Trench, which normally gives you so much EXP you can grind to okay okay i exaggerate, it's probably more in the mid-50s range Fur20 fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 04:04
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 Most of the game was a cakewalk except for NeoExdeath, which took me a few drat hours to do right and get lucky. This game is a lot harder without being able to go Freelancer or Mimic. edit: My party was level 39 when I beat it, how does that compare to other people's parties? Mathemagician fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 04:10
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Harlock posted:Is Berserker really that bad? I just got it to go with my Black Mage. Fight random battles on Crescent island until you get a Doom Ax (or whatever it's called in your version). It's really powerful for that point in the game, and a lot of bosses are actually vulnerable to instant death.
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Jun 20, 2012 04:15
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First playthrough of FF5 ever: Time mage, white mage, beastmaster, dancer. What point in the game (if any) can I hope to actually cause damage? Everything is going veeery slowly. I haven't grabbed the dancer shard just yet either.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:27
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Himuro posted:Nooooo An ode may not be an actual ode to the mighty bard: Bards can raise the entire party's agility so much that you practically get your next turn instantly, like super haste. This lasts for the whole battle and persists through death. Bards can raise the entire party's effective level so everyone does a ton of damage. This also lasts for the whole battle and persists through death. (So can the chemist if you get one, but the bard can do it without consumables.) Bards will helpfully continue doing either of the above two things if they become zombified while doing them. (There's a death metal joke to be made here.) Bards can stop or confuse (or both) the entire enemy party, making the majority of random encounters and a handful of bosses nearly harmless. Bards can do a fuckton of damage to undead, making level grinding (if you need it) trivial in the right places. Bards can also give the entire party regen, and raise strength and magic like they raise agility and level, but these are comparatively less interesting effects. Bards can be mastered in a relatively trivial amount of AP, allowing any non-berserker to join in the singing fun. Bards can do all the above for 0 MP, with no special equipment, and you've still got your ability slot to do with as you please. Bards can hide offscreen to make sure someone survives that guaranteed final attack that wipes the rest of your party. The above benefits are all basically job-independent, so bard synergizes with everything. In short, bard is not a fire crystal job to complain about.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:30
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JGBeagle posted:Looking at all of the character art, it dawned on me that Nomura can't draw wrists. Looks like those in-game character models were more accurate than I thought. If Square Enix ever make a Final Fantasy VII remake, they need to have a button that can switch to the old PSX models at any time. For some reason, I couldn't stop doing that in the Halo Anniversary remake.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:30
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Wilhelm posted:First playthrough of FF5 ever: Time mage, white mage, beastmaster, dancer. What point in the game (if any) can I hope to actually cause damage? Everything is going veeery slowly. I haven't grabbed the dancer shard just yet either. When you get Holy and Meteor near the end of the game it'll pick up but until then that is not the most newbie friendly group.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:49
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Going to stream more FF5 now, and I'll probably get to the earth crystal tonight. Maybe I'll get chemist! http://www.justin.tv/cube89
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Jun 20, 2012 06:04
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I was thinking, since I have Holy/Flare and 2 tablets, is there any reason I shouldn't just head to the Void and murder ExDeath? Since my party is White Mage/White Mage/Black Mage/Geomancer I can't think of anything else I'd need. Unless the Void lets me use Earthquake and Cave In I'm not even sure that the Earth Bell is worth using on my Geomancer since it only boosts earth-based damage and attacking to get the chance at using quake seems like less of a chance than triggering it via geomancy.
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Jun 20, 2012 06:10
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Evil Fluffy posted:Unless the Void lets me use Earthquake and Cave In I'm not even sure that the Earth Bell is worth using on my Geomancer since it only boosts earth-based damage and attacking to get the chance at using quake seems like less of a chance than triggering it via geomancy. You could always use Geomancer + !Black + Quake, couldn't you?
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Jun 20, 2012 06:15
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Alrighty guys, it's time for me to take on Exdeath. My final setup:  Bartz has the highest Strength, so he gets the Brave Blade. It's a bit risky, running with a Flame Shield on him instead of a Flame Ring, but Haste will score me a lot of damage really quickly, and I feel that's worth the one in three shot of a Flame Sword hit missing. If he's in real danger, I can pop an Elixir. Regardless, that's why I decided to not give him the Bone Mail, so I can revive him if need be. Lenna has the highest Magic by a smidge, and just too high to underflow with the Thornlet. So, she gets the Rune Axe, which is technically less powerful Attack-wise than the Thor's Hammer, but with the Rune effect kicking in is equally so for as long as her MP lasts. On top of that, her "excellent" 8 Magic after the Rune Axe is just enough to add on a couple of extra multipliers, making it just barely the strongest Axe/Hammer I have. Combined with Double Grip and the quartering of a target's Defense, and she's an effective beatstick. Oh, and the Rune Axe is 90% accurate versus the Thor's Hammer's 80%, putting it on top even if it didn't win on pure damage. Cara has 4 Magic as a Berserker, just enough to underflow with the Thornlet. I'm not sure if underflowed Magic caps at 99 or not; if it doesn't, then she gets that little bit extra damage with an Earth Shaker Bartz and Faris wouldn't. If it does, well, the other three are all better suited to their roles than they would be to the Earth Hammer plan. She's critical to my Neo Exdeath plan, being able to pull down a lot of damage between three targets. Finally, Faris, who has this role by virtue of her decent Vitality and Agility. She has the Bone Mail, because it doesn't matter if I can't revive her, she can self-Elixir with Ice Brand/Ice Shield, and she needs to stay alive at all costs. Faris, my Knight, is...a White Mage. She can cast Protect with the Defender, she can heal with a Flame Sword, she can revive with Items, and in a pinch, she can drop the support and go balls to the wall (figuratively) with the Excalibur. I'm not expecting the first Exdeath form to be too hard just because I have so much offense. Neo Exdeath will go like this: Summon Odin, Excalibur the Grand Cross piece and hope the Berserkers aim for it a bunch, and then hit things until they die. I'm planning on exhausting the Magic Lamp all the way down to Golem, because if I can land Shoat... Anyway, this is going to come down to a bunch of luck, but there's not much to be done about that-this is a team of three quarters Berserkers. Time to roll.
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Jun 20, 2012 07:49
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I believe that, if the attack is one that the target absorbs, it bypasses Evasion. I could be wrong about that, however, and it may only apply to self-attacks.
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Jun 20, 2012 08:04
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Dr Pepper posted:
Oh man this is why I love FF5, didn't even think of that. Pablo Gigante posted:With Thief/Summoner/Bard so far, every single boss past Garula has been really easy. Bard isn't much use in boss battles besides giving everybody regen, but I've basically just been spamming one of the elemental summons and using two thieves for alternately attacking and healing. Beat Adamantoise, ready to head up to the flying ruins... Some bosses are vulnerable to Stop but heal from it pretty quickly. If you have two guys with Sing alternating though you can stunlock some bosses to death. FreezingInferno posted:So I joined this FF5 Four Job Fiesta thing today! Playing on the SNES version for the first time in a good ten years. Does hard mode let you choose the order or do you have to start as Blue Mage? Because Monks make the early game a joke but yeah unlocking them as your last job kinda sucks :I The good thing about this setup is Berserker with Two-Hand from the knight is actually a really good damage dealer for a large portion of the game.
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Jun 20, 2012 08:04
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JGBeagle posted:Looking at all of the character art, it dawned on me that Nomura can't draw wrists. Probably to emphasize wristbands were the only real equipment you could wear in the game, besides nondescript accessories and a weapon.
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Jun 20, 2012 08:12
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Wilhelm posted:First playthrough of FF5 ever: Time mage, white mage, beastmaster, dancer. What point in the game (if any) can I hope to actually cause damage? Everything is going veeery slowly. I haven't grabbed the dancer shard just yet either. Once you get Comet (time magic), spam it. It can either give you low damage or high damage, but it usually falls somewhere in between. It's also really cheap at 7 MP. In my run I haven't stopped using Comet since I got it.
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Jun 20, 2012 08:17
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Trasson posted:Alrighty guys, it's time for me to take on Exdeath. You are a braver man then I. A true Hero of the Fiesta. 
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Jun 20, 2012 08:21
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Nailed the bastard!  I had to try out a few different configurations in order to finally find one that worked. Really, though, it came down to luck: luck on who got aimed at, on both sides, and luck that Grand Cross didn't end my run. In the end, here are the changes I made from my earlier picture: Lenna got the Crystal Armor because I'm dumb and didn't buy a fourth Dark Suit. I handed the Dark Suit to Faris so she'd have that little bit more Agility. Lenna also switched from the Rune Axe setup to the Excalibur with shield. I didn't lose a whole lot of damage, and being able to dodge nearly half the Vaccuum Waves headed her way saved me trouble. Finally, Cara was dropped into the back row: her main goal was to trigger Earth Shaker as much as possible, so she didn't need to be in front. Letting her be in back let her eat a physical every now and then, and it extended the Magic Lamp's Earth Wall. I'll have the full World 3 writeup at some point soon, as well as my full thoughts on the run.
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Jun 20, 2012 09:19
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The cool thing about rolling Samurai is that when a problem arises you can just throw money at it until it Trasson posted:Nailed the bastard! Well I'll be. Congratulations, you twisted masochist you.
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Jun 20, 2012 09:35
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Trasson posted:Nailed the bastard!
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Jun 20, 2012 09:42
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Trasson posted:Nailed the bastard! Someone get this guy a title.
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Jun 20, 2012 09:54
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Trasson posted:Nailed the bastard! Impressive. 
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Jun 20, 2012 09:55
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WELL Knight/MysticKnight/Ranger/Samurai gonna have to stock up on potions.
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Jun 20, 2012 09:58
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Drain Spellblade. 
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Jun 20, 2012 10:08
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Got Shinryu down! Yeah, I Wonder Wand/Berserk/Golem cheesed it, but I don't care, damnit. At level 31/32, too!Trasson posted:Nailed the bastard! You are an icon of this Fiesta. Congratulations. 
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Jun 20, 2012 10:13
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I'm in the void as Black Mage/Red Mage/Geomancer/Samurai. Dual Casting flare has been fun, as has been throwing more money at enemies than I've spent on equipment. One trouble spot was fork tower, Mainly trying to find some way to survive the flare of the magic boss. I got around that by using the wonder rod on the less useful of the two characters there and managed to work through to reflect to cast on whichever one of the two was actually doing damage. Close call, but it worked. The other one I remember giving me some trouble was the dude that casts Gigaflare. Got past that by pure luck honestly. While he was charging gigaflare a last ditch effort of using the magic lamp turned out to be an Odin summon. Turns out he's vulnerable to instant death at this point woo. Leonyth fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 10:58
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Trasson posted:Nailed the bastard! Congratulations, you magnificent bastard. Way to pull off a victory with three drat Berserkers. That's an accomplishment you can put on your grave.
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Jun 20, 2012 11:07
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Looks like Trasson just got a personal shoutout from Gilgabot. 
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Jun 20, 2012 12:14
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Harlock posted:Is Berserker really that bad? I just got it to go with my Black Mage. I've actually gained some respect for Berserker during the fiesta, because I was lucky enough to roll Ninja from the Fire Crystal. Dual-wielding Dancing Dagger and Rune Axe. 
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Jun 20, 2012 12:17
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The Sage of the Knight and Three Berserkers: Update the Third World 3 is where the challenge of FFV both begins and ends. While the kid gloves came off with Exdeath previously, here it's really brought to bear. Enemies will use powerful moves, cheap tactics, and complicated AI scripting. On the other hand, virtually every single piece of powerful equipment is available soon into World 3. It's a bit of a wash. Nothing happens in World 3 until the Antlion fight. I had Cara be a Knight and Bartz be a Berserker. The Venom Axe and the Flame Sword were the heroes of the day, letting me stay alive and eventually kill him, despite my levels being shot to hell. After plot happens, I hit up Mua and grabbed my prize: The Brave Sword. The Chicken Knife and Berserkers don't get along very well, there was no way in hell I was downing Shinryu, and I had four melee characters to outfit. I needed this drat thing. The effort would be worth it. While the Chicken Knife's one in four Flee reinforces its nature to end battles quickly, the Brave Blade ends battles quickly by killing things dead. This was all I picked up in Mua. This would come back to bite me. The Pyramid. Probably the hardest dungeon thus far, and probably the hardest of the tablet dungeons, and one of the hardest period (unless you have a White Mage or a Bard, of course). The randoms were of little consequence-most of the undead were weak to Fire, and everything is weak to the Brave Blade anyway. The thing I dislike about the Pyramid is how many drat chests are trapped and then hand out Dark Matters. At least Dragon Fangs sell for a decent amount. Anyway, in my travels in the Pyramid it became apparent that I'd neglected to stock up on Potions and High Potions since before Castle Exdeath. Whoops. The Flame Sword/Flame Ring combo held the day, though, letting me keep my HP topped up. The other notable thing in the Pyramid are the dual gifts of the Earth Hammer and the Thornlet. Now, knowing I might be saddled with a Berserker (not that I expected three), I'd planned on the SNES version for this particular bug (Okay, really, it was the graphics and the sound. This just made extra reason to use the SNES version). The game doesn't have a check to prevent your stats from underflowing, so if you equip enough equipment with magic penalties to bring your magic under 0, it underflows to just over 250. I think the game then caps this at 99, but I'm not sure. Regardless, the only class that has Magic low enough to encounter this bug is the Berserker...who can't cast any spells due to being berserk! Well, except for the Earth Hammer's one in four Earth Shaker attack. It's not especially strong, especially from a Berserker. Normally it's worth about 500 or so to the enemy party. With this bug, it became a bit over 2000 damage to all enemies. Sure, it's only one in four, but it was a key part of my plan for Neo Exdeath. (A side note: in looking up the exact rate of Earth Shaker kicking in, I noticed that the Earth Hammer was Back Row compatible despite the game not mentioning so. I, of course, had my Earth Hammer Berserker in the front row for almost the entire game.) Now, this is a bug; is it kosher, especially for a challenge? I think so. It's literally something only a Berserker can do, and I figured if you're saddled with three Berserkers, you gotta do what you can. A look at the FJF player list shows another guy with Knight/Berserkerx3, but he's on the GBA version. So, Diddgery, if you're reading this, sorry, but you're gonna need even more luck than I had for Neo. Anyway, I now had an Earth Shaking Machine. Sure, I'd be slowly losing HP in battle, but it's a drop in the bucket and I still had my Flame Ring set up to keep HP topped up. I cleared the rest of the dungeon with all its loot, and moved on to Merugene. She switches around between being weak to one of the three primary elements and being weak to Magic. Unfortunately for her, 90 Defense isn't enough when faced with a 150 Power Brave Blade or a 58 Power Earth Hammer cutting through three quarters of her defense. Seriously, that property of Axes/Hammers is not to be underestimated. There's not a small amount of enemies whose bullcrap is completely cut through when you make their high defense pointless. Oh yeah, Merugene. She starts off weak to Fire. Flame Sword, Brave Blade, Earth Hammer, Berserkers swung, I healed a little. Lenna's back, but more importantly, I can hit Kuzar. There's only three Legendary Weapons my team could use, so I made my way out with the Excalibur, the Assassin's Dagger, and the Rune Axe. These bear a little discussion: Excalibur: High Power, is a sword and therefore accurate, and is Holy Elemental. That last part only came up on enemies who absorbed Holy, unfortunately. It was rather annoying. Still, the accuracy helped a lot, and the high power made up for the inability to Double Hand it. Rune Axe: Generally an all around strong weapon, it was used in battles where I didn't want the Earth Hammer around. Assassin's Dagger: Can't be Double Handed, and inflicts a status that I've been carrying in my inventory since World 1. Could this ever be useful? Yes. Now that I had the Airship, I could hit Mirage for loot and goodies. I did so, dropping another 200000 gil on accessories: a full set of Running Shoes. I also bought a full set of Crystal equipment and three Dark Suits (I wouldn't need a fourth, I had the Bone Mail...right?). I skipped getting the Mirage Vest because dammit I've gone around the world on Boco way too many times and I knew I'd never use it. I did pick up the Thief Knife, and proceeded to never use it. Between Mirage and Surgate, I also stocked up on all my consumables (Potions, High Potions, Phoenix Downs, etc.) and sold off all my chaff. Lemme tell you, you've never known RPG pain until you've sold Ribbons. Anyway, I had almost everything I needed to head into the Cleft of Dimensions? Yeah, really. There wasn't anything in the other dungeons I needed! Okay, there was, but I forgot about the second Aegis Shield in Istory Falls until I was at the last save point, and hell if I was walking back from there. Then, I remembered one more key item that I'd want. The Defender. There's only two ways to get it: rare steals off rare enemies, or a chest in Fork Tower. Yeah, Fork Tower, with three Berserkers and a Knight. You're joking, right? The Solitary Island Shrine was a joke. There wasn't much need to heal in randoms, so I gave everyone Running Shoes. I had overwhelming attack power for every member of my party, so even with my slow rear end Berserkers it was pretty likely I'd kill most of the enemy team before they got to act. And if they did, well...thanks to Lenna and Galuf's temporary breaks from a party dedicated to never running from battle, not _everyone_ could get hit by Level 5 Death! Stoker was a joke. I think he got off maybe one or two Mind Blasts? So Fork Tower. I figured I wouldn't have trouble with Minotaur; no one does. Omniscient would be another story. I figured I'd go in with a Wall Ring, attack myself with a Mage Masher, bounce a Mute, and while he was muted, swing with the Brave Blade. What happened...well, you'll see. My first attempt at Fork Tower went the way all my first attempts do: me forgetting which side was which and sending physicals up the magic side. Once I got that right, I realized my next problem. The randoms. They respond to physical hits with such delightful moves as Meteo and Circle. Eventually, I came upon a plan: attack my Wall Ring'd self with the Assassin's Dagger and bounce a Death spell onto them. Of course, the run I came up with this, I ran into a single enemy who promptly bounced his own Death off my Wall Ring and killed himself. Go figure. Bartz, Lenna, and Cara were Berserkers outfitted with the Defender, Excalibur, and Earth Hammer. Do you see the issue? If you responded "Minotaurus absorbs Holy and Earth, dumbass" you'd be right! Luckily the Earth Hammer itself is non elemental, so Cara made actual damage progress until she died, but every swing of the Excalibur undid Bartz's Defender work. Of course, because one character had a 25% dodge and the other didn't, eventually Lenna's attempt at HP neutrality were ceased and I got to watch Berserker Bartz duel with Minotaurus. He won, barely. Omniscient...bah. My plan was a great one! Until he led off with Haste, and thus he'd unMute before I got to swing. Luckily, the only move he could do was Drain, and he was dumb enough to bounce a Regen off himself onto me. Therefore, I got to wait out his 30000 MP. This involved checking it in ZSNES's memory viewer every now and then and watching my friend catch up to me in Xenoblade Chronicles. When ZSNES said he hit 0, I waited for him to cast Scan to confirm his lack of MP to Reset with, and bashed him to death with the Brave Blade, the only time since I'd gotten it that Bartz had not wielded it. I made out with my loot, stocked up on everything, and went for the final part of my plan. I had an inkling that Catastrophe could be difficult, so just in case, I decided to travel to North Mountain, kill my Berserker allies, and use the Dancing Dagger to Tempting Tango a Gala Cat into casting Float on Faris, and would hold it, without using a Tent or her dying, until I got to Catastrophe, where I'd put on a Wall Ring and negate his entire AI script. After a few false starts of Faris dying or me using the Cleft of Dimension!Mirage Village healing pot, I beat Apocalypse and purely out of habit used a Tent and saved it. Whoops. Pictured: The benefits of manually sorting your inventory  Anyway, so I was all set for the Cleft of Dimensions. The opening areas were easy enough. I named off six of the seven bosses at the desert door to one of my friends, but I couldn't remember the last one. I got reminded when I got through the Mua Forest area and encountered Wood Sprite, who wins the award for most forgettable endgame boss ever, if me and my seven playthroughs can't remember she existed. The Cleft of Dimension's randoms are easy enough. Sure, they hit hard and have some annoying moves, but when you get down to it, they die rather quickly. In addition, the Bone Mail, the Aegis Shield, and the Defender ensured that there was a decent chance anything threatening would fly through the air ineffectually. By the way, Wood Sprite died the way most of the other bosses had up until now: under a hail of player input agnostic Berserker violence. This run has made me suspect it's not really that Berserkers all around suck, it's that !X-Fight and such are all around stupidly powerful. Apocalypse went the same way. I did my usual shtick of healing occasionally, but my stuff was just too stupid powerful. As mentioned above, I then Tented and saved and hit myself. I gave Catastrophe a shot anyway. His first go around he did back to back Earth Shakers and killed me, the second he neglected it for Demon's Eye and a physical. Given that the Demon's Eye was on Cara, who I had stupidly left the Earth Hammer on, this really only helped me. He didn't get a third turn. Halicarnassus tries to be threatening, but girl, you're going to need more than 10 Defense to stand up to this team. After my opening salvo of Maiden's Kisses, she was downed easily. Multiple times, in fact. I needed a few tries at Twin Tania before I thought to save after Halicarnassus. I just realized I forgot to mention Apanda, and rather than stealth edit him in above I'll just note that Byblos isn't any harder for this team with seven times the HP. Twin Tania took a couple of tries, because I didn't have the HP to take Giga Flare and I wasn't about to go and level up a bunch. In the end, I exploited its Death weakness while charging, jimmied my equipment to give Bartz and Faris the longest chance to survive, and went in with Bartz holding my last unsold Doom Axe (Just in case!) and Faris switching to the Assassin's Dagger midbattle. My winning run I'd forgotten to save after changing my equipment, so I only had one shot with the Assassin's Dagger. It landed Doom and I was happy. The final run up would require me to take on Necrophobia. No way in hell am I walking from the Dimensional Castle every time I lose to Exdeath. Gilgamesh was easy enough, of course, but Necrophonia was harder. My first instinct was to try and take advantage of the Barrier piece's lack of Death immunity, but they had Wall, so there went that plan. Eventually I just brute forced it: hope they use a bunch of stuff I absorb and have Faris toss Phoenix Downs at my Running Shoes endowed Berserkers. With the Barriers down, Necrophobia herself went down easily enough, since she had to physically attack to kill someone, and Maelstroming someone would cause Faris to Cover them, whereupon the usual result was for the Defender or the Aegis Shield to take the hit. I managed to get in one swipe with the Thief Knife, my only usage the entire game. I didn't even get a Steal attempt, never mind get the Genji Armor off Gilgamesh. Oh well, the Dark Suits were better. The one thing I made sure to do was use two charges of the Magic Lamp, leaving Odin ready for use. And so, I had my final save point. I ran around a little so Faris and Cara could master Knight for aesthetic's sake, and prepared. I went through a few combinations, but my winning run involved the following:  Reasonings: Faris was my Knight of choice, because of her high Agility. It's an incredibly minor difference, but I wanted every advantage I could get. Same for the Dark Suit-between the Agility boost and the Weight it was only a couple of frames faster, if that, than a Crystal Armor, but again, every advantage I could get. Crystal Helms all around, except for Cara, There isn't any better helmet for Berserkers/Knight. Dark Suits all around, except for Cara. Cara would have had one too but I was dumb and assumed I'd be using Bone Mail all the time and only bought three. She drew the short straw because she she needed the Strength/Agility boost less than Bartz or Lenna. Running Shoes all around. I wasn't high enough level for healing to make a different: my HP was either "die in two hits", "die in one hit", or "dead". Haste, on the other hand... Bartz has the highest Strength, so he, as usual, got the Brave Blade. A shield for evasion completed the set. Lenna floated between a few weapons before I settled on the Excalibur. My problem wasn't damage, it was hitting, I needed every hit to count, and the Excalibur is powerful enough (and Exdeath's defense low enough) that it dealt comparable damage to the Rune Axe, which itself dealt comparable damage to the Back Row compatible but more inaccurate Thor's Hammer. Cara as a Berserker has just 4 Magic Power. This is just enough to underflow with the Thornlet. I'm pretty sure the game caps Magic at 99, but if it didn't, I wanted that extra bit of power. Faris started with the Defender, and would rarely take it off. There were a couple of times she'd switch to Ice Brand/Ice Shield to heal a bit of damage that would take me out of "die in one hit" level but I didn't want to waste an Elixir for, but she mostly sported the Defender/Aegis Shield the whole way through. Because I'm a dumbface, I only had one Aegis Shield. Faris was the evident candidate for it, since if she went down my chances of victory went with her. Faris and Cara were placed in the back row. I didn't know the Earth Hammer was back row compatible, I just knew the all-important Earth Shaker spell would be, and I wanted to maximise Cara's durability. Faris would be on healing duty, mostly, and therefore would not need to be up front. Finally, I made a move I rarely do in a Final Fantasy game, and set the ATB to Wait. So, if you don't know Exdeath's general patterns, here's a quick primer: The first form starts off with a combination of White Hole or attacks. The attacks hurt, doing about 1500, while White Hole inflicts both Death and Petrification. Being immune to one will prevent both, but only Faris would benefit from that. As he gets down in HP, he'll mix it up, tossing in a 2500 damage Holy and eventually using Meteo. You don't want to see Meteo, it's pretty much a TPK. Even if Faris lived through it, even if I made it to Neo Exdeath, I'd be in no position to win. Neo Exdeath is worse. He's comprised of four parts: the left-side spellcasting part, the top Grand Cross part, the bottom Almagest part, and the right-side physical part. They act independently with gaps in their AI script to let the others act, but when only one is left, it goes into a sort of berserk mode (not the kind I'm using, unfortunately) that uses all of the moves the others do in rapid succession. Conventional wisdom states to attempt to kill the last two parts as close to another as possible. Berserker reality states _that is goddamned impossible_. The biggest issues are Almagest and Grand Cross. Almagest is a good 1700 or so to the whole team, as well as an HP Leak, and only a one in three proc of the Aegis Shield can protect you. Grand Cross inflicts random statuses all across the board-if this hit anything that took Faris from my control, I was likely dead. Worse, this would often be right after an Almagest, making everything extra hard to deal with. Finally, the physical part would throw out 500 damage physicals and 1500 damage Vaccuum Waves every now and then, just to make life hell. So, the strategy: Faris would lead off the tree form by using the Defender to put Protect on as many people as possible, and would do so on all free turns, and otherwise revive any dead people. Every now and then a stray physical would put Faris at around 1600 HP-low enough to die to Almagest but not low enough to justify one of my seven Elixirs. In this case, she'd equip an Ice Brand and Ice Shield and smack herself for 160 or so-just enough to be safe from Almagest. How the tree form went generally influenced Neo. If I got everyone, or at least Faris and Cara, under Protect and most everyone else at high HP, things would go well. This was dependent on Exdeath sending his non-Holy moves Faris's way, where she'd block it or tank the hit. Neo is, as always, the hard part. First and foremost, I'd be conservative when I felt the first form was ending-acting as soon as the second form started was key. Faris's first turn would be to use the Magic Lamp (recall how I used it twice on Necrophobia) to summon Odin, which would kill the spellcasting part. Her next turns would-hopefully-be to use it in rapid succession again to bring out Shoat. If I was _really_ lucky, Demon's Eye would hit the Grand Cross part and remove it from the equation. That never happened, but I did get a good number of false positives on the dummy targets. "Dummy targets", you say? Yeah. There's a couple of targets in the Neo fight that are only targeted by autotargeting moves like Berserked party members, !X-Fight, and Meteo. And, as I found out to my sadness, Magic Lamp Shoat. In addition, any killed part becomes a dummy target. This is what makes Berserkers so frustrating against Neo and what prompted my switch to the Excalibur on Lenna. If there was a slim enough chance I'd even swing at a valid target, then dammit I wanted to deal damage when I did. After Shoat would be Golem, and the end of my Magic Lamping. Golem would tank a few hits, giving me time to get everyone back up, and also being the reason for the Protect spells from the Defender, as well as the back row on Cara and Faris. With those, I'd take less damage, letting Earth Wall stay up a little bit longer. From this point on, there's no strategy. There's a pattern: physicals from the physical part, charge for Grand Cross, Almagest, use Grand Cross, repeat. There's enough lag between Almagest and Grand Cross for Faris to get in a couple of turns, enough to revive someone or heal herself. The plan was literally throw Phoenix Downs like candy. Thanks to Haste and Berserk, my characters would act immediately upon getting up, and usually two or three times to every one of Faris's actions. Yes, that's right. You save a lot of time not having to open a menu. When Almagest appeared, if Faris didn't block it with the Aegis Shield, I'd Elixir her and start Phoenix Downing everyone else. If she did, then I'd just start reviving. The order of preference was Cara > Bartz > Lenna. The Earth Shaker's one in four shot of appearing instead of a normal attack made for better odds of Cara doing something on her turn than the other two, and Bartz outdamaged Lenna. When Grand Cross popped up, I'd just hope it whiffed-between Haste, Berserk, and the Aegis Shield, there was a sizable chance of it not affecting me at all, and a larger one of it at least not stopping the attempt dead. Still, there were a number of instances of Dead/Zombied/Berserked Faris that cut my game short. Without her to revive people, Almagest would be a TPK. When the physical part died, I'd swap Faris to the front row and have her join in on the violence on whatever part I though had been hit less. If the Almagest or Grand Cross part died, she'd just stay there and join in if she got a chance. The biggest problem was that I couldn't aim my hits. Not only could I not reliably ensure that the final two parts approached death more or less equally, but I couldn't even ensure that I'd kill the final part quickly, thanks to the dummy targets. Not a few attempts were ended by having one part left and my Berserkers missing their mark while an Almagest/Vaccuum Wave/Vaccuum Wave combo brought the team to zero. Eventually though, luck won out. Thanks to Earth Shaker, while the three part's 50000-60000 HP each couldn't be brought down entirely exactly, they at least weren't so lopsided. My winning run saw a set of Grand Cross misses, lucky Vaccuum Wave misses, a lot of Earth Shakers, and some lucky aimed shots from my Berserkers hitting the final part before it slaughtered everyone. In the end, I won Neo Exdeath the same way every single boss was won-by pointing my violence at the problem until it stuck.  Final thoughts on my equipment, item by item. Doom Axe: All star. A lot of stuff is vulnerable to Death, and anything that isn't is hurt bad by its high attack power. It's not outclassed for a very long time, and even then you might consider keeping it for the random Death spells, as the Venom Axe's poison isn't very impressive. Flame Sword/Flame Ring combo: Beastly. Having it made Exdeath 1, the Pyramid, and a good deal of the Cleft of Dimensions easier. What wasn't pictured was my endgame item stores: Of my 99 Potions and 99 High Potions, I had exactly one High Potion left at game's end. Being able to heal at will made my run through the Cleft of Dimension a lot easier (maybe even possible?). Rune Axe: While it may not have made the final Exdeath cut (haha!), it was a solid performer in all the randoms, as well as against most of the Cleft of Dimension bosses. Definitely one of the Berserker's biggest assets, as even with its pathetic Magic Power it can still squeeze a higher M value than one would think. Earth Hammer/Thornlet Combo: Amazing: Helped slaughter randoms, bosses, and I probably wouldn't have managed Neo Exdeath at my levels without it. I feel really sorry for anyone playing a version where this bug is fixed, it's one of the Berserker's stronger points in a challenge run. Oh, and the Thornlet's damage? Never noticed it, really. It's not a huge amount, and in most boss fights, you're either winning quickly or dying in one hit anyway. Excalibur: Thanks for making Gargoyles and Minotaur harder! Other than that, good job I guess. The Excalibur's always been an amazing asset in my FFV playthroughs, and this was no different. Brave Blade: Honey, I know the Chicken Knife is mathematically better, but I love your aesthetically pleasing 150 Attack Power as well as your ability to function as an incredible badge of honor. Someone on Gamefaqs likes to say "The Brave Blade controls you, you control the Chicken Knife." Well, I say that the Brave Blade is better when you can't control anything anyway! Bone Mail: Don't let its absence from the final battle fool you: this thing is, as always in any variant that involves a lack of White Magic, an absolutely incredible piece of equipment that should never be ignored. You know why Optimize always puts it on? It's not stupid, it just knows far more than you do. Running Shoes: 5/5 would buy again. There would be no way I could have won without these, and making randoms easier by having a Hasted Berserk Brave Blade from the start of the battle is pretty drat awesome. Defender: The true all-star of this run. Worth every last one of Omniscient's 30000 MP and more. Blocking Vaccuum Waves, keeping Faris and Cara alive with Protect, combining with Cover when Almagest/Grand Cross knocked HP into critical, and on top of all that still bashing incredibly well? If I had to play FFV with only one weapon it would be this one. The only weapon that can do more is the Wonder Rod. Final thoughts on my classes and abilities: Knight: Knight is still an incredible FFV all-star. Getting exclusive (barring Freelancer) access to some of the best weapons in the game, getting heavy armor in a game where heavy armor is probably at its best, getting a useful action ability and amazing support abilities, all on top of excellent physical stats and okay Agility? Knight made this playthrough. Double Hand and Equip Swords gave me lots of flexibility, letting me choose between crushing power, accurate blows, high defense, or a composite of all three. Berserker: Also excellent. Yeah, okay, there's five battles you don't really want a Berserker: Sandworm, Seal Guardians, Omniscient, Necrophobia, and Neo Exdeath. Even then, only the first two involve them being an actual liability. Omniscient doesn't count, and they're just not as useful as a directed attacker against Necro and Neo. Despite all this, they're still a very powerful physical class. Berserk is a strong ability that boosts damage without giving up defensive options (the only other abilities to do this are !Jump, !Dance, and !X-Fight. !Jump takes two turns and makes your other party members take damage instead of you, !Dance is unreliable, and !X-Fight is just brokenly good anyway) while Axes and Hammers are excellent weapons. Their lower Attack Power is mitigated by their Defense quartering property-to gain an accurate assessment, add three quarters your target's defense to their Attack Power. Suddenly, the Rune Axe's effective 81 Attack Power looks a lot closer to the Excalibur's. Their low Agility is made up for by the best accessory in the game, and their lagless attacking means they can push out damage that much faster than other characters. Quite simply, they get a bad rap, and aside from their difficult battles, Berserkers are quite good. Final thoughts on the challenge as a whole: A lot easier than I thought. This is helped by my prior Berserker experience, and some prior SCC (Samurai and half of White Mage) experience. I knew where the good equipment was, I knew how all the bosses acted, and I had an idea of how to handle the tough fights before I got to them. Final Fantasy V is still an amazingly crafted game, and it's challenges like this that show off why: there's a lot of breadth and depth in strategies to overcome the challenges you face. Even with my party, which had a minimum of inbattle tactics to decide, had a lot of strategy in terms of who to equip with what, probably moreso than a Black Mage's Wizard Rod/Gold Hairpin/Black Shirt/Running Shoes default setup. So how did I like Knight as a Berserker partner? Honestly, it's probably one of the hardest of the jobs to partner a set of three Berserkers with. Dancer hands out Equip Ribbon, Monk gives Barehanded, and other jobs (Time Mage, Bard, White Mage, etc.) give an amazing amount of support. Mystic Knight could conceivably be difficult because Mystic Knight doesn't actually help a Berserker much, but then a Mystic Knight is stupid powerful so it wouldn't matter anyway. A bunch of other jobs give out excellent Equip abilities that the Berserker enjoys or are otherwise incredibly strong anyways. Thief would be a bitch, but at least you'd get Footwork to offset the speed problems, as well as the ability to deck the Berserkers out in status resisting Genji gear. All in all, loads of fun, and a solid enough challenge. Thanks go out to everyone who encouraged me, as well as RK for running this whole show. Good luck to everyone who's left.
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Jun 20, 2012 14:00
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Awesome post, you really know the game inside-out at this point. Edit: just tried rolling jobs. White, Berserker, Ninja, Dancer Not actually that bad? Starting as white Mage sucks but at least lategame there's some healing. Can berserkers make good use of dual wield? I know they can two-hand their hammers. Ninja is awesome, I don't like Dancers but equip ribbon helps. No magic damage until Holy though. THE AWESOME GHOST fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 14:44
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Evil Fluffy posted:I was thinking, since I have Holy/Flare and 2 tablets, is there any reason I shouldn't just head to the Void and murder ExDeath? Since my party is White Mage/White Mage/Black Mage/Geomancer I can't think of anything else I'd need. Unless the Void lets me use Earthquake and Cave In I'm not even sure that the Earth Bell is worth using on my Geomancer since it only boosts earth-based damage and attacking to get the chance at using quake seems like less of a chance than triggering it via geomancy. My party was BM/TM/Ranger/Samurai, and I skipped the 4th tablet dungeon because it didn't have anything I wanted. To be honest, I probably could have skipped all but the first tablet dungeon because I only needed three of the legendary weapons, and Flare and Meteor really aren't that great of spells.
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Jun 20, 2012 15:50
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Hahahaha I got Chemist for my last job. Doesn't that pretty much mean easymode for the rest of the game? Thief/Summoner/Bard/Chemist. Pretty good team I think. What do I do about jobs until my fourth party member returns?
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Jun 20, 2012 15:52
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Pablo Gigante posted:Hahahaha I got Chemist for my last job. Doesn't that pretty much mean easymode for the rest of the game? Yes, it does. As for jobs, basically whatever you want, so long as it's one of each. (So you can't have two chemists, etc.)
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Jun 20, 2012 16:05
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So, I just started this up:Gilgabot posted:@MrAristocrates has registered for #FFV4JF2012 and got the Wind Job 'Thief' because they are dashing! Oh, this could be painful. Edit: Also, what's the rule for skills? Am I allowed to put skills for one of my other three jobs on a character once I've unlocked those crystals? The answer's probably no, but I'd like to be clear. Edit 2: \/Awesome, thanks. Arist fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 17:02
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MrAristocrates posted:So, I just started this up: You can use any skills you've learned when you switch jobs.
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Jun 20, 2012 17:10
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The hardest part of Thief first (I just tweeted my #victory tweet for it!) is Magissa/Forza and Galura. If you're willing to grind to I think 14, you can kill Magissa in two rounds of combat and have her not summon Forza, I think. Don't quote me on that one. Galura will require just a truckload of potions and careful timing of attacks. Get the Elf Cape from Walse Castle Basement since you can easily use !Flee to avoid the Jakanapes. Good luck!
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Jun 20, 2012 17:13
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