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kimbo305 posted:Don't some cars have pretty good camber gain under load? Yes, some cars, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that wouldn't benefit from more front camber, and there are very few cars that will let you get even to -2 degrees with the stock adjustment if there is any at all. Double wishbones and multilink suspensions will usually not need as much camber as struts. Even with stiffer suspension and bigger swaybars, a car with strut suspension will need at least -3 degrees to keep the tires happy. Keeping the tires happy will make your car handle better too. The entire tread generates a lot more grip than the outer shoulder and sidewall.
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Jun 20, 2012 06:08
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jamal posted:Yes, some cars, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that wouldn't benefit from more front camber, and there are very few cars that will let you get even to -2 degrees with the stock adjustment if there is any at all. Double wishbones and multilink suspensions will usually not need as much camber as struts. My C6 Z06 is maxed at the stock -1.5 in the front, but of the available -1.8 in the rear, my alignment guy, who does racing himself, only set it to -1.3. He said Vettes don't need as much camber in the rear. Most of my wear is at the insides of the rear tires, with the fronts being very evenly worn. I guess that's the effect of mostly street driving and not enough track driving?
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Jun 20, 2012 06:43
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No I was mostly talking about the front where you usually want to have more camber. It does depend on the drivetrain and weight distribution too, so most regular cars that are front heavy and have struts need a bunch of camber. I'm at -2.5f and -1.1 rear on a Subaru to get even wear and a good handling balance. Something like your corvette which is lower, wider, better balanced, and has decent suspension geometry won't need as much. I would say a big contributor to your tire wear is toe. On the rack I'm sure it is zeroed but there is going to be a good amount of dynamic change from bushing flex.
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Jun 20, 2012 07:27
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nm posted:If you live in any really large metro area or near a track, there's a good chance there's actually a shop that sells higher end racing helmets. I think that is the best way to go if you're going to drop a lot of money. This is also a great idea if you are buying an SA rated helmet for the first time as compared to an M rated helmet. They fit very differently. An SA rated "Medium" is not the same as an M rated "Medium".
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Jun 20, 2012 08:29
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nm posted:If you live in any really large metro area or near a track, there's a good chance there's actually a shop that sells higher end racing helmets. I think that is the best way to go if you're going to drop a lot of money. Yes, actually being able to try out different sizes means it's pretty hard to do it remotely.
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Jun 20, 2012 11:31
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The Locator posted:This is also a great idea if you are buying an SA rated helmet for the first time as compared to an M rated helmet. They fit very differently. An SA rated "Medium" is not the same as an M rated "Medium". Also sizes between brands are pretty much incomparable. Much like shirts every manufacturer pads their helmets slightly differently. Also R-Comps won't destroy your car, but you also won't learn anything on them as a novice since you'll only push them when you make a mistake, and since you're going so slow you won't be punished for the mistake since the tire will have enough grip to compensate for it. Increased ball joint and wheel bearing wear is the common result of stickier tires, nothing that troublesome.
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Jun 20, 2012 14:25
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jamal posted:Some good DOT treaded R-comps (that will certainly not destroy your suspension): Best R-comp tire for heavier and more powerful cars I've come across is Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. Dry traction is miles above the Toyos but the tire is lot less progressive on the edge as well. It is easy to get used to so it is worth it.
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Jun 20, 2012 14:34
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kimbo305 posted:My C6 Z06 is maxed at the stock -1.5 in the front, but of the available -1.8 in the rear, my alignment guy, who does racing himself, only set it to -1.3. He said Vettes don't need as much camber in the rear. Most of my wear is at the insides of the rear tires, with the fronts being very evenly worn. I guess that's the effect of mostly street driving and not enough track driving? Probably, factory suspension settings tend to be closer to 0 camber front and some pretty good amount rear since it induces understeer in steady state cornering, as well as being good for hard braking. The vette also has steam roller tires, you don't need a ton of camber to keep a big patch in the rear. The Locator posted:This is also a great idea if you are buying an SA rated helmet for the first time as compared to an M rated helmet. They fit very differently. An SA rated "Medium" is not the same as an M rated "Medium". Just measure your head, if you say "I have a 28.5" circumference" they will usually have a inch range for the various sizes. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 14:45
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For online helmet ordering, a string and the manufacturer's website is king. Measure your head in whatever dimensions the manufacturer lists on their sizing chart and choose the appropriate size for your noggin'.
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Jun 20, 2012 15:11
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nm posted:A few companies make SA2010 and DOT approved helmets. Do you know specifically who? When I bought my last helmet (Bell M4), I was trying to find an SA helmet that was also DOT and came up with nothing and ended up with a Shoei RF1100. I did however call the Snell foundation get the FINAL word on the difference between Snell approved bike and car helmets so we can put that to rest: Car: fire proof interior Bike: larger view port It is possible that may be designed differently (multiple impacts vs one), but they all pass the same qualifications to be Snell approved. If your car helmet has a motorcycle sized view port (call the manufacturer for details on that) then it is just as safe for motorcycling as any other Snell approved moto helmet. The Shoei I ended up with did have some better motorcycling features (vents, wind blockers, easier to operate visor), so a moto specific helmet has merits other than safety. My weekend at the "Canadian Historic Grand Prix" at Mosport was a great success. I ran a full 5 session test day on Thursday to get used to the car and then alternating duties with my brother (who's been racing it for the last 6 years) for the race weekend. In my final race I ended up turning a 1:36.4, which was quicker than any time my brother did that weekend. All that seat time during Lemons must be paying off! I remembered how exciting sprint racing is -- the guy in front of you is the guy you NEED to get past. The car was flawless and being treated to an arrive and drive was, needless to say, loving awesome. Next up on my calendar is a mid-July road trip up to Oregon Raceway Park in my 510 for an Oregon PCA weekend. I've been told that ORP feels like a skatepark -- sounds fun!
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Jun 20, 2012 15:32
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jamal posted:No I was mostly talking about the front where you usually want to have more camber. It does depend on the drivetrain and weight distribution too, so most regular cars that are front heavy and have struts need a bunch of camber. I'm at -2.5f and -1.1 rear on a Subaru to get even wear and a good handling balance. Bushing flex is really another big thing to consider in regards to camber. There is a lot more flex inherent in the stock bushings which will cause you to lose some of your camber under load. This means if you have -2.5 degrees dialed in and have flexy bushings you're probably only really getting an effective camber of -1.75 or so. If you have a dedicated track car then new bushings are something you should really think about installing. I was running -2.7 front and -1.8 on my SRT8 and wish I could have dialed more into the front. It probably would have been ok if I had upgraded my bushings but I always got more outer shoulder wear on my slicks then I wanted. Unfortunatley the only game in town for bushings on the LX platform at the time was Pedders and well, gently caress those guys. To get in on tire chat, I had really enjoyable results with Nitto 555R2's. They arent the absolute fastest tires but they give good stick and didn't get greasy even under the 4000lbs of my magnum.
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Jun 20, 2012 15:33
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Do most of the tracks you guys go to not have race shops on location? Try on helmets, sit in seats, etc. Summit Point has OGRacing NJMP has Driving Impressions Lime Rock Park has someone, I forget who Stable Energies often brings a trailer/display to many track events I actually got a discount from their online price when I bought in person at Stable Energies shop. So don't always assume online will be cheaper. Toyo RA-1 is another treaded R-Comp tire for that list.
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Jun 20, 2012 15:47
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c355n4 posted:Toyo RA-1 is another treaded R-Comp tire for that list. I run used, shaved RA-1s on track and love them. They're not as fast as Hoosiers, but they're cheaper and provide a lot of aural feedback, much like a street tire. They're also the stock tire for Honda Challenge which is the series I'd like to race in one day. Moving to an r-comp tire isn't something I'd do immediately, as is noted earlier in the thread. You really need to take some time to iron out your bad driving habits before you can get the most out of the r-comp, and early on your money is much better spent on seat time rather than modifications to your car that will increase your learning curve.
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Jun 20, 2012 18:20
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c355n4 posted:Do most of the tracks you guys go to not have race shops on location? Try on helmets, sit in seats, etc. The few tracks I hit out here in SoCal are in the middle of nowhere and don't tend to have much in the way of facilities.
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Jun 20, 2012 18:34
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aventari posted:The few tracks I hit out here in SoCal are in the middle of nowhere and don't tend to have much in the way of facilities. The one exception in California is Infineon, which has a really nice store 
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Jun 20, 2012 18:45
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If you are in socal looking for a helmet or seat or safety gear Sube Sports in HB has a good selection of stuff you can try on. Simpson and Alpenstars also do yearly open house sale things.kill me now posted:Bushing flex is really another big thing to consider in regards to camber. There is a lot more flex inherent in the stock bushings which will cause you to lose some of your camber under load. This means if you have -2.5 degrees dialed in and have flexy bushings you're probably only really getting an effective camber of -1.75 or so. If you have a dedicated track car then new bushings are something you should really think about installing. Actually every bushing on my car has been replaced with stiffer urethane including the stock front top hats which are even offset to give me more camber and caster. So things stay in a much better spot under load. On the subject of bushings, if you are putting together a track only car, it is not a bad idea to go with spherical bearings in suspension components. If you are driving the car around on the street, it is a good idea to stay far, far, away from them and either use stiffer rubber or urethane. Bearings don't last long and make a lot of noise on the street.
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Jun 20, 2012 19:31
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jamal posted:On the subject of bushings, if you are putting together a track only car, it is not a bad idea to go with spherical bearings in suspension components. If you are driving the car around on the street, it is a good idea to stay far, far, away from them and either use stiffer rubber or urethane. Bearings don't last long and make a lot of noise on the street. Other than the obvious increase in NVH and the cost, are there any reliability or other drawbacks to using stiffer bushings on the street? What happens when spherical bearings start to go; does that make the car undrivable?
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Jun 20, 2012 22:02
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Blooot posted:Do you know specifically who? When I bought my last helmet (Bell M4), I was trying to find an SA helmet that was also DOT and came up with nothing and ended up with a Shoei RF1100. I did however call the Snell foundation get the FINAL word on the difference between Snell approved bike and car helmets so we can put that to rest: There's at least one of saferracer. I'm on my cell phone at the moment or I'd link. Honestly, I googled Sa2010 and DOT to find it.
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Jun 20, 2012 22:55
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Phone posted:For online helmet ordering, a string and the manufacturer's website is king. Measure your head in whatever dimensions the manufacturer lists on their sizing chart and choose the appropriate size for your noggin'. If I'd done this I'd have bought a Medium, but when I tried a bunch on I ended up with a Extra Small for some reason! It was too easy to move the Medium on my head. Then again, if it's not quite the right size you can always buy new pads that will make it fit better (although if you buy a Large and you need a Small you might be hosed with some makes as they'll use different size moulds (1 for XL-M, another for S-XS). Plus motorsport shops are always fun to hang out at and shoot the poo poo with the people there.
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Jun 21, 2012 01:34
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Admirable Gusto posted:Other than the obvious increase in NVH and the cost, are there any reliability or other drawbacks to using stiffer bushings on the street? What happens when spherical bearings start to go; does that make the car undrivable? No not really. You have to re-lube them occasionally, and there are some things that are better in rubber than poly, but I have gradually gone to poly over the last couple years and the only thing I've had to do is re-lube the swaybar bushings once because they'd squeak over speedbumps. My set of rear bushings is really hard at shore 95A and they are also graphite impregnated which means much lower maintenance. They look so good it's a shame you can't see them: Spherical bearings will eventually corrode and get junk in them and make a ton of noise. That noise is also play in the suspension. Worst case scenario the bearing can seize and break whatever it's in. I see that a lot with endlinks.
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Jun 21, 2012 03:14
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Admirable Gusto posted:The one exception in California is Infineon, which has a really nice store Yes, Wine Country Motorsports. Very helpful folks. That being said, apparently the naming rights for the track expired on friday. Rather than going back to Sears Point, the track is now just "Sonoma". Personally I would have gone with "Wall".
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Jun 21, 2012 03:37
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I'm pretty much of the opinion on anything short of a full out race car, don't mess around with spherical bearings and such in the suspension, just upgrade to poly or delrin bushings as they're such lower maintenance and it's pretty unlikely you'd ever see a performance difference between them. I'd also rather use poly motor mounts than solid just for lessened stress on the subframe mount points.
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Jun 21, 2012 04:41
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A good friend of mine was running slicks on a mostly stock C6 Z06 and nearly pulled some bushings right out of the front wishbones. It certainly can happen.
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Jun 21, 2012 07:29
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Anyone have a recommendation for a good portable air compressor to bring to the track?
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Jun 21, 2012 16:10
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blk96gt posted:Anyone have a recommendation for a good portable air compressor to bring to the track? You mean powered off the 12V socket? Any old $20 Chinese one will work. I've never heard anyone complain that theirs died prematurely.
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Jun 21, 2012 16:15
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I've had more problems with those compressors killing my 12v source in my cars.
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Jun 21, 2012 17:25
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Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers
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I just bring a small 5gal tank and fill it up from the track's air. What is everyone using for data Acq? Racepak looked interesting to me initially since it is set up to be a dash replacement as well as data acq but I'm not seeing good things about its software. Trackmate seems better on the software/widespread usage side but it really isn't set up to be a dash replacement.
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Jun 21, 2012 17:58
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FatCow posted:Trackmate seems better on the software/widespread usage side but it really isn't set up to be a dash replacement. It most certainly is! http://traqmate.com/traqdash/ We're using one this season after using the basic Traqmate last year and it's brilliant. Shift lights, revs, speed, and the most useful bit of all, the real-time lap feedback at the bottom of the screen, so you know if you're on a hot one or if you've lost time at that point on the circuit compared to your best overall lap. Probably less important for track days because you're not supposed to be timing, but in a race it's dynamite.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:23
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That's not really a dash replacement. There is no way to show oil pressure/water temp/oil temp on the main screen or to show RPMs on the screen that shows the sensor inputs. http://www.racepak.com/IQ3Dash.php
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Jun 21, 2012 18:30
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blk96gt posted:Anyone have a recommendation for a good portable air compressor to bring to the track? We had a tank of nitrogen. Handy for adjusting the pressure on the dampers too.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:18
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The Golf didn't have all of those as OEM so we've got those as proper dials in the center of the dash. Still, the live lap time feedback and the Traqmate/GoPro integration really are very very good. But I guess whatever works for you works for you.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:22
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For air I just bring a quality bicycle hand pump. Everyone laughs, but I can pump up tires about 5-10x faster than those lovely 12v compressors and it's a cheaper and more useful than a small tank.
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Jun 21, 2012 20:32
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aventari posted:For air I just bring a quality bicycle hand pump. Everyone laughs, but I can pump up tires about 5-10x faster than those lovely 12v compressors and it's a cheaper and more useful than a small tank. drat, I didn't know that would work. Anything on Amazon that you would consider a quality pump? I swear... I started off my track days with a helmet and a tire pressure gauge. I'm running out of room to store all of this extra poo poo in the car.
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Jun 22, 2012 08:03
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It isn't available on Amazon, but I've never had an issue with my bike pump: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb/pumps/floorpumps/airtoolsportfloorpump . VV - I haven't had any issues with Presta or Schrader valves with this pump. It gets a bit tiresome (  ) when you're pumping up 10-15 psi, but I find the 12V compressors to be obnoxious to use.
Phone fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 11:54
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Last time I tried a bike pump the whole valve assembly exploded into bits on the first pump. I haven't been able to find one that actually fits on properly.
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Jun 22, 2012 12:15
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Phone posted:It isn't available on Amazon, but I've never had an issue with my bike pump: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb/pumps/floorpumps/airtoolsportfloorpump . That's basically the same one I have and it works great. You're generally only making adjustments of a couple PSI, only takes a few strokes on a bike pump to manage that.
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Jun 22, 2012 15:28
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needknees posted:That's basically the same one I have and it works great. You're generally only making adjustments of a couple PSI, only takes a few strokes on a bike pump to manage that. Unless your an idiot and forgot to check the starting pressure on your tires and only realize at the track that you've forgotten to air up your track wheels after emptying them for storage over the winter.  Its nice to have a way to fill up your tires sometimes.
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Jun 22, 2012 17:17
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Yeah I've never had an issue with any quality pump ($25-$40, not a Walmart POS)kill me now posted:Unless your an idiot and forgot to check the starting pressure on your tires and only realize at the track that you've forgotten to air up your track wheels after emptying them for storage over the winter. Are you supposed to empty the air out for storage? I've never done that. I do put the wheels/tires in black garbage bags though.
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Jun 22, 2012 22:10
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well http://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm FAQ #8 Hoosier's tire page posted:TIRE STORAGE Probably doesnt matter so much if you're running a DOT street tire or r-comps so much. But I always did it with slicks.
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Jun 22, 2012 22:55
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ahh maybe removing the air is so the tires don't flex a lot with temperature fluctuations and the pressure going up and down.
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Jun 23, 2012 02:14
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