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Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004
Also aggressive compound tires like direzza stat specs rs3s shouldn't be allowed to go below 35f or they harden up.

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got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear
Laguna Seca, high intermediate run group, first session of the day. Into the wall just after turn 11, the slowest turn of the track, just before the front straight. How do you even crash there :gonk:

vv yup it was the pit wall vv

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got off on a technicality fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jul 2, 2012

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Not enough braking into 11? What tires are those?

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

kimbo305 posted:

Not enough braking into 11? What tires are those?

They're Bridgestones for sure, and I think the tread pattern matches the RE-11s

Here's another shot:

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Aurune
Jun 17, 2006

Admirable Gusto posted:

Laguna Seca, high intermediate run group, first session of the day. Into the wall just after turn 11, the slowest turn of the track, just before the front straight. How do you even crash there :gonk:



Typically people find the pit wall at turn 11. Since it leads onto the longest straight, the game is getting on the power as soon as possible. You screw this up, you spin and hit the pit wall. This isn't just a rookie mistake either. It was either this year or last year's ALMS @ Laguna start involved a car in pit wall at 11. If it was the wall by the stands, I bet he began to spin and tried to save it.

I think this corner and turn 15 at Thunderhill teach a lesson. It's a HPDE day, not a race. Yes, you can shave a about a second off your lap time by being brave thru a corner known for creating body damage. Is that second worth not driving your car home?

Shame. It was a nice M3.

Aurune fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jul 2, 2012

Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004

Aurune posted:

It's a HPDE day, not a race. Yes, you can shave a about a second off your lap time by being brave thru a corner known for creating body damage. Is that second worth not driving your car home?

Pffft, everyone says west coast tracks are the best but you have to be pushing to wreck out there. Limerock uphill death corner 4 lyfe.

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE
Ready for my $300 E30's first track weekend at Streets of Willow Springs, just added some DIY Home Depot brake ducts




3" dryer hose and flex tubing
2 empty Rosarito cans of beans (cut both ends off and remove beans)
some hose clamps
a bunch of zip ties

They fit and work way better than I ever thought they could. Hope they stay intact all weekend.

Brake pads I'm running are brand new Hawk HT10's

aventari fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 5, 2012

parid
Mar 18, 2004
If your brakes start cooking bad, you can always just let off a couple seconds before the braking zones in the straights. You will still have 99% of the fun. Streets isn't too bad on the brakes. Your dryer duct will make a difference.

HPDEs aren't even timed. It's about driving and learning the lines. You don't need a stop watch to help you start with that.

Aurune
Jun 17, 2006

Muffinpox posted:

Limerock uphill death corner 4 lyfe.

That corner scares me. Reminds me of the wall placement at Infineon Raceway at Senoma only worse.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

I'll be at NJMP - Lightning on July 14th-15th. Registration is still open for anyone wanting to come! We're pretty light on HPDE attendance so you're going to get some really good track time with great instructors. Even have a BBQ on Saturday after the event.

http://imgracing.com/Schedule.aspx

If you're coming, shoot me a PM. I can introduce you to everyone.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

parid posted:

Streets isn't too bad on the brakes. Your dryer duct will make a difference.

HPDEs aren't even timed. It's about driving and learning the lines. You don't need a stop watch to help you start with that.

I don't think Streets is particularly hard on brakes compared to say Laguna or Buttonwillow, but it also depends on which direction you're running. CCW is worse than CW, especially if you take the fast line through the bowl

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Aurune posted:

That corner scares me. Reminds me of the wall placement at Infineon Raceway at Senoma only worse.

Sears Point you mean.

Only CA track that scares me. Those walls are close as hell

aventari posted:

Ready for my $300 E30's first track weekend at Streets of Willow Springs, just added some DIY Home Depot brake ducts




3" dryer hose and flex tubing
2 empty Rosarito cans of beans (cut both ends off and remove beans)
some hose clamps
a bunch of zip ties

They fit and work way better than I ever thought they could. Hope they stay intact all weekend.

Brake pads I'm running are brand new Hawk HT10's
You could do all that, or you could just get better brake pads.
That said, if you're getting a street tired, stock power e30 brake to 1300 degrees in an HPDE, you're probably doing something wrong. My pads go to 1650lbs, but my car weights 1000lbs more and has twice the HP.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

nm posted:

You could do all that, or you could just get better brake pads.

I don't think we can ever get consensus on this. I want some buff mag to spend days testing and gathering data for all the pads that people talk up. On different classes of cars, against different tires, etc.

e: are pads generally open/free in spec series?

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jul 6, 2012

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

kimbo305 posted:

I don't think we can ever get consensus on this. I want some buff mag to spend days testing and gathering data for all the pads that people talk up. On different classes of cars, against different tires, etc.

I think once you go R-comps, the game changes, but for anything that isn't severely underbraked (or weighs 4000lbs), on street tires, there's a pad for it.

You will, however, see increased rotor wear and possible cracking depending on the car though.
That said, an e30 is light enough that I wouldn't worry that much on street tires.

I use carbotech XP10s (claimed 1650F) on streets (generally RE-01Rs, now Z1s, though I'm not a fan) for my 3350lbs station wagon (lots more with my fatass) and the only time I've really faded them was during bed-in (which you're supposed to). Front pads and rotos basically last the same amount of time (which isn't long).

Don't know about classing though.

Yeticopter
Nov 19, 2004

Everybody's favorite urban legend, now airborne.

Muffinpox posted:

Pffft, everyone says west coast tracks are the best but you have to be pushing to wreck out there. Limerock uphill death corner 4 lyfe.

Not saying I don't take that corner like a grandma, but the downhill righthander scares me more. After coming off that exit backwards at 100+ mph (into the grass, no collision) I doubt I'll ever push it more than 1-2 mph more.

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE

nm posted:

You could do all that, or you could just get better brake pads.
That said, if you're getting a street tired, stock power e30 brake to 1300 degrees in an HPDE, you're probably doing something wrong. My pads go to 1650lbs, but my car weights 1000lbs more and has twice the HP.

So maybe it's possible the ducting is overkill, but it's certainly not going to *hurt* anything. While I'm using good pads, the main reason I wanted to do the ducting is that I built this car as a beater track car to let my friends learn on.

It's going to see double, sometimes maybe triple duty on each track day. This weekend will be double duty in back-to-back sessions with my friend on Saturday and Sunday so I think keeping the brakes happy is a good idea.
Plus I race in SoCal where it gets insanely hot at August track days and I will be running R-comps after this coming weekend. I like NT01's, but I might try something else.

So for this E30 I'm using the Hawk HT10's. I've always run Ferodo DS2500's at the track on my VW's and Miata, which are more of a street oriented pad, but they cost $200 for the front axle for the E30, the XP10's are $175 and the HT10's are ~$90.

aventari fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jul 6, 2012

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

Yeticopter posted:

Not saying I don't take that corner like a grandma, but the downhill righthander scares me more. After coming off that exit backwards at 100+ mph (into the grass, no collision) I doubt I'll ever push it more than 1-2 mph more.

Seems a popular spot. I did that in the rain and just kept sliding and sliding. At least I was close to pit-in by the time I stopped. :x

blindjoe
Jan 10, 2001
Will this tire pass tech? I hit a curb and it took a chunk out of the rim protector on the side wall, but the tire is still good.

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aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE
We have self-tech at all track days here so it would pass that.
I'm sure if an actual inspector saw that though it wouldn't pass, too risky.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

Yea, we'd fail that. I just asked our Tech guys.

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.
As a driver I'm not sure I'd feel that confident getting in a car if the sidewall looked like that tbh.

blindjoe
Jan 10, 2001
I guess I live life in the danger zone as I don't mind driving on it.

I will have to get new tires I guess. Are the DZ101 good track day/commuter tires

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

aventari posted:

So maybe it's possible the ducting is overkill, but it's certainly not going to *hurt* anything. While I'm using good pads, the main reason I wanted to do the ducting is that I built this car as a beater track car to let my friends learn on.

It's going to see double, sometimes maybe triple duty on each track day. This weekend will be double duty in back-to-back sessions with my friend on Saturday and Sunday so I think keeping the brakes happy is a good idea.
Plus I race in SoCal where it gets insanely hot at August track days and I will be running R-comps after this coming weekend. I like NT01's, but I might try something else.

So for this E30 I'm using the Hawk HT10's. I've always run Ferodo DS2500's at the track on my VW's and Miata, which are more of a street oriented pad, but they cost $200 for the front axle for the E30, the XP10's are $175 and the HT10's are ~$90.

No, the ducting is a good thing to have. Keeping the brakes as cool as possible means everything lasts longer (not just your pads). Bearings and hubs stay cooler, the boots on ball joint and tie rods don't melt, you don't have to worry about boiling the fluid, rotors don't crack etc. Plus you can use less expensive pads.

On a heavy, powerful car, especially with sticky tires, you don't have much of a choice. Even with ducting and huge brakes and race pads things are going to get hot as poo poo.

On the subject of your ducts, you could make them a little more effective with a better inlet. Usually you also want to make a little sheetmetal plate that attaches to the upright and guides air to the rotor hat.


What are you doing for engine cooling? If this is going to get beat on in the hot summer for multiple sessions you may want to do a few things to keep it cool and lubricated. External oil cooler and an accusump come to mind along with some ducting in and out of the coolers. Or just some speed holes in the hood.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
:supaburn: Speed holes in the hood :supaburn:

Depends on what car and the low/high pressure zones. Just sawzalling into a hood randomly will most likely increase underhood temps.

I thought you worked on time attack cars?

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
Well it was supposed to partially be a joke. But here is "jamal's guide to speed holes:"

Giving the air somewhere to go after it enters the radiator/coolers is what's important. Normally most of the air comes through the radiator, pressurizes the engine bay, and goes under the car and into the wheel wells. From an aerodynamic point of view, that is a bad thing and creates front end lift at higher speeds. So when someone puts on a super-racing jdm front bumper with a larger opening and a big wing on the back that means you get more drag, a ton of understeer at speed and likely no cooling improvement even though there's more open area at the front of the car.

The best places to vent this air out are in the front half or so of the hood and the backs of the fenders. A couple rectangular holes just behind the radiator would probably be helpful if you are having cooling problems, especially with a slight lip in the front to help draw air out. As you near the windshield, the pressure increases, so a cowl "vent" for example is actually letting air into the engine bay and reduces airflow through the coolers. On a tracked Subaru for example it is usually a good idea to go to a front mount IC and ditch the hood scoop.

In conclusion
cutting holes to let air out: good
cutting holes to let air in: bad

jamal fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jul 7, 2012

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Bondurant is having a summer sale:

e: the $/hr for seat time isn't the cheapest, but it is contiguous, which helps you gel stuff.
I'm taking a close look at:
http://www.bondurant.com/courses/advanced-road-racing

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 6, 2012

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug

jamal posted:

The best places to vent this air out are in the front half or so of the hood and the backs of the fenders.
I knew there was a reason I haven't fixed the rust in my rear wheel arches yet.

TheGoatTrick
Aug 1, 2002

Semi-aquatic personification of unstoppable douchery

aventari posted:

Ready for my $300 E30's first track weekend at Streets of Willow Springs, just added some DIY Home Depot brake ducts
If you're doing the daytime sessions on 7/7, I'll be running in the beginner group in a white MINI Clubman. Come and say hi; I'll give you some Gatorade. The regional MINI club will be there with about a dozen or so cars running in the various groups.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:


Stills of this crash were posted in the mechanical failure thread last month, but this youtube fills in some of the details of what happened- turns out nothing broke, he just boned a turn, put two wheels off, and couldn't recover. Fortunately, he did everything else right and walked away. Fantastic accidental camerawork when the in-car cam falls off, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuVgkSIuouY

grover fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jul 7, 2012

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
That's a fast corner too. Entry speeds into there are as fast as turn 1 after the front straight. So for some cars 160+ mph, and at that speed you do have to brake. With a low powered car you are flat all the way around there. Here's a similar incident in our time attack car a couple years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHx2-pvqtfg

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE
How funny you post that, I was at Streets of Willow this weekend, and we have to drive by that wall to get in and out of the track. From the outside, we saw the section of wall knocked outwards and were wondering what the hell happened. I just figured it was a motorcycle that had gone off at high speed.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear
I wonder if anyone who's familiar with Laguna Seca would please critique my lap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRtZ17hqTFU&t=462s

I'm told that a pro driver should be able to do ~1:48 around there in my car ('06 Cayman S on Hankook V12s; stock apart from a bunch of cooling mods and Pagid Oranges). The YouTube video shows a 1:51.5xx lap with a passenger. Next session I was able to do 1:50.3xx without, which means there's around 2 seconds to pick up here and there. Thoughts anyone?

e: bonus crashed M3 at 21:10

got off on a technicality fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 11, 2012

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
How do the V12s hold up? My Star Specs are about done for and I don't know if they have another weekend in them. Not really looking forward to buying new tires, so I'm hoping my street V12s can take a little abuse if need be.

Grassroots Motorsports, NASA Mid Atlantic, and VIR is hosting this year's Ultimate Track Car Challenge next Friday 7/20. I'll be spectating and then driving Saturday and Sunday. NASA Mid Atlantic also has Hyperdrives on Saturday. One morning class and one track session at lunch for $50, a good way to try track days without too much of a commitment.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

How do the V12s hold up? My Star Specs are about done for and I don't know if they have another weekend in them. Not really looking forward to buying new tires, so I'm hoping my street V12s can take a little abuse if need be.

My previous set of V12s lasted 6 track days (plus ~12,000 highway miles), and I am pretty hard on them (go two wheels off quite often and four wheels off maybe once a track day). At Laguna Seca (track surface ~115-120F per my trusty pyrometer) I would get maybe 2-3 grippy laps at the beginning of each session before they started getting (very) greasy. Personally am not a fan of this characteristic but what the heck they're cheap, less likely to make my engine blow up and are nicely progressive on the limit (they squeal at a specific pitch when they're at max traction, and have a deeper past-limit howl, all of which is fun to distinguish out there)

Crustashio
Jul 27, 2000

ruh roh
I had V12s out on one track day in my 328is and I wasn't really a fan. They squealed like hell even though I wasn't near the limit, and the treadblocks made the steering feel quite vague. Starspecs are more expensive but they feel a hell of a lot better on my 330i.

They'll certainly last a trackday though. I had probably 4 solid sessions of lapping on them. 5-6 laps per session of a 1.6km track that is very hard on tires.

Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004

Admirable Gusto posted:

I wonder if anyone who's familiar with Laguna Seca would please critique my lap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRtZ17hqTFU&t=462s

I'm told that a pro driver should be able to do ~1:48 around there in my car ('06 Cayman S on Hankook V12s; stock apart from a bunch of cooling mods and Pagid Oranges). The YouTube video shows a 1:51.5xx lap with a passenger. Next session I was able to do 1:50.3xx without, which means there's around 2 seconds to pick up here and there. Thoughts anyone?

e: bonus crashed M3 at 21:10

I can see a few spots you could gain time, but you'll also most likely have a rather serious crash if you gently caress up. In fact, one of them is exactly where that M3 hit and you will have that exact same crash.

Crustashio posted:

I had V12s out on one track day in my 328is and I wasn't really a fan. They squealed like hell even though I wasn't near the limit, and the treadblocks made the steering feel quite vague. Starspecs are more expensive but they feel a hell of a lot better on my 330i.

They'll certainly last a trackday though. I had probably 4 solid sessions of lapping on them. 5-6 laps per session of a 1.6km track that is very hard on tires.

I agree with this drove them at an auto-x in another AP1 S2000 back to back with my S2000 on DSS. They're actually rather fast and have good manners, they just don't feel that great.

Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jul 12, 2012

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...
I think the Daihatsu has been on the same set of Star Specs for 3 races, though the last 2 were early DNFs. We have enough meat left over to do the 12 hour night race at Streets of Willow next month.


Note that its a 1500lb car with 120hp and proper camber/toe/caster so it doesn't needlessly chew through tires.

Longpig Bard
Dec 29, 2004



Admirable Gusto posted:

I wonder if anyone who's familiar with Laguna Seca would please critique my lap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRtZ17hqTFU&t=462s

I'm told that a pro driver should be able to do ~1:48 around there in my car ('06 Cayman S on Hankook V12s; stock apart from a bunch of cooling mods and Pagid Oranges). The YouTube video shows a 1:51.5xx lap with a passenger. Next session I was able to do 1:50.3xx without, which means there's around 2 seconds to pick up here and there. Thoughts anyone?

e: bonus crashed M3 at 21:10

looked fine to me, and I know, because I do a lot of iracing, so you know I'm good (Don't make me fraps a lap because I will).

Also, I'll join speedventures in Fontana sometime once my car is broken in. I want to go up to Laguna Seca some time in the next 5 years... gotta do that.

Longpig Bard fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jul 12, 2012

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear

Muffinpox posted:

I can see a few spots you could gain time, but you'll also most likely have a rather serious crash if you gently caress up. In fact, one of them is exactly where that M3 hit and you will have that exact same crash.

Oh do tell please; I promise to keep the traction control on :f5:

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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

How do the V12s hold up? My Star Specs are about done for and I don't know if they have another weekend in them. Not really looking forward to buying new tires, so I'm hoping my street V12s can take a little abuse if need be.

Side-walls that make the star spec (which have a soft sidewall) look like concrete.
I didn't love them, but then my car is fairly heavy.

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