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The White Dragon posted:Well I guess that's the thing: as much as I hate FF13, it's absolutely true that it has an easy appeal in the sense that a five-year-old can enjoy it the exact same as a fifty-year-old can enjoy it because it has these pretty visuals with way too much bloom. I swear, that poo poo is like the '10s version of the lens flare.
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Jul 6, 2012 10:06
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Schwartzcough posted:Yeah, and then maybe they'll give us the original War of the Magi from VI, or the Adventures of Laguna from VIII, or Braska's Pilgrimage from X, You bastard, you've shown me things I never knew I wanted.  Except for the Laguna bit, I already knew I wanted more of him. It's why I played Dissidia 012.
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Jul 6, 2012 10:15
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You know, looking at the other sequels SE has done, I'm honestly a little glad that haven't made a FF6 sequel and they've left that one well enough alone and are not making GBS threads it up like they did with FF7.
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Jul 6, 2012 16:59
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The White Dragon posted:Anything that requires you to read more than, say, five to ten NPC boxes of flavor to engage you or for you to sufficiently enjoy it or tell you everything meaningful you need to know about a place is an absolute failure. That's... really not true at all.
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Jul 6, 2012 17:25
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Gammatron 64 posted:You know, looking at the other sequels SE has done, I'm honestly a little glad that haven't made a FF6 sequel and they've left that one well enough alone and are not making GBS threads it up like they did with FF7. It's unfortunate that most sequels fall under Sturgeon's Law, but that's the way it goes - they can take a chance and revitalise flagging interest in a game, its world and the characters, or it can crash and burn so hard that it'll make you never want to have anything to do with it again. The games most deserving of sequels, rarely get them, while ones that don't are drowned in them. I'd love a sequel to IX, though...it probably would be terrible.
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Jul 6, 2012 17:47
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Tempo 119 posted:That's... really not true at all. Yeah, I think there's a balance to be had. The problem is that a game like FFXIII over and over violates one of the most basic principles of storytelling: "Don't tell me, show me." Pesky Splinter posted:I'd love a sequel to IX, though...it probably would be terrible. Not only that, sometimes a story is just finished, and there really is nothing more worth saying about that world. A sequel for its own sake tends to be horrible.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:10
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PhilippAchtel posted:Not only that, sometimes a story is just finished, and there really is nothing more worth saying about that world. A sequel for its own sake tends to be horrible. That's true. I mean, the story bookends itself quite nicely, and short of turning it into goddawful fanfiction, there's no where you can really take the characters. Their tales are told - Eiko's got a family, Amarant is more sociable, Freya has Fratley, Garnet has Zidane, Quina never really had that much point anyway, Steiner and Beatrix are together, the Black mages and Genomes are learning to be human. The only real unexplained things are with Vivi and Kuja, but even their stories are resolved - Vivi copes with the concept of death, and (somehow) manages to create offspring, showing that things may not be so bleak for the short-lived black mages, and Kuja makes his peace with Zidane and inspires hope in the Genomes that life has meaning.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:33
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Yeah. I think FFVI had one of the most satisfying video game endings ever, and they managed to wrap up just about everybody's character arc. Also, while FFVI is one of the most popular ones in the west, it seems like it's practically ignored in Japan, with IV, VII and X being the most popular ones. Maybe the western translation was better than the original Japanese one, who knows?
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Jul 6, 2012 19:07
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I think it has a lot more to do with the graphical and story telling jump from FF1 - FF4 - FF6. Which is not to speak less of VI, however. [e]: Well it is, kind of. It takes the job system from FF3 (and makes it better), and has roughly the same beats as FFIV - bad guy is a burly dude in armour, there is a cutscene where an old dude survives an onslaught with 0HP because of the powers of sheer hate/love, and then shows up in the end as a ghost to cheer the party on. A party member gets brainwashed along the line, and that's all I remember on comparisons ATM. VVV Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 6, 2012 |
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Jul 6, 2012 19:12
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I always used to confuse which final fantasy was 4 and 5, because I feel like 5 looks like a step backward in terms of design.
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Jul 6, 2012 19:17
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Tempo 119 posted:That's... really not true at all. So you're saying a setting that requires a loving encyclopedia to get anything more out of than "my what a pretty setting" isn't a complete failure? One should be able to get a sufficient amount of information from a setting's visual context and maybe a total of ten or twelve sentences to get an understanding of and a general, if low-level, immersion in a setting. Encyclopedia entries can be fun side material, but they should never, EVER be used to define your world. That should be done on its own merits.
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Jul 6, 2012 19:24
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FF6 is just like a prettier and mechanically less convenient 5. Without 5's context, it seemed like a much different game back when we played it.
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Jul 6, 2012 19:32
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah. I think FFVI had one of the most satisfying video game endings ever, and they managed to wrap up just about everybody's character arc. Well SNES Kefka is pretty much a meme all by himself. Woolsey made Kefka more fun and memorable. Apparently in the more faithful Advance version he's just plain old seen it a million times "CRAZY EVIL"! Also, all the "big time" FFs have been the first ones on their respective consoles.IV for the SNES, VII for the PS1 and X for the PS2. This I think plays into their popularity as much as anything else.
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Jul 6, 2012 19:58
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pw pw pw posted:I always used to confuse which final fantasy was 4 and 5, because I feel like 5 looks like a step backward in terms of design. ....what? How can anybody think 5 is a step back in design?
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Jul 6, 2012 20:16
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Bonaventure posted:FF6 is just like a prettier and mechanically less convenient 5. Without 5's context, it seemed like a much different game back when we played it. Yeah, I think in terms of visuals, music, characters and setting FF6 is better, but mechanically FF5 is better. I think FF5 has some of the best gameplay in the whole series, and if we're talking solely gameplay mechanics and ignoring everything else, FF5 and 10 are probably the winners in that category. The Magicite system really kind of feels like a dumbed down, less powerful version of FF5's job system. You could say the same about FF7's Materia system, which is very similar to the one in 6.
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Jul 6, 2012 20:19
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Bonaventure posted:FF6 is just like a prettier and mechanically less convenient 5. Without 5's context, it seemed like a much different game back when we played it. What do you mean by "less convenient?" As in, lacking in 5's flexibility? That's true, I suppose, but 5 and 6 were very different experiences. 5 is a very lighthearted adventure with a pretty laughable "plot," which had static characters that were really just coat racks for jobs. 6 has a much more character-focused and cohesive story. It was much darker, and the characters and events were more memorable. The jobs of 5 were split up and made into their own characters. Long story short, 5 probably has the more compelling gameplay in the job system, but 6 tells a much better story.
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Jul 6, 2012 20:22
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NikkolasKing posted:Well SNES Kefka is pretty much a meme all by himself. Woolsey made Kefka more fun and memorable. Apparently in the more faithful Advance version he's just plain old seen it a million times "CRAZY EVIL"! There's a few changes, but it's mostly in wording rather than the intent behind them: SNES quote:My sweet little Magic user...! Uweee-he-he! With this Slave Crown I'll practically OWN you!! GBA quote:My sweet little magic user... Uwee-hee-hee! With this slave crown, you'll be all mine! They're not that dismiliar, and they keep some of the more famous lines. Some of the retranslations are for the better, others aren't. Interestingly, they draw from both for his scenes in Dissidia. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jul 6, 2012 |
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Jul 6, 2012 20:24
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Finished my FF4: The After Years Edge solo run. Last time, I was at the penultimate story boss. I was having trouble because its black magic would wipe me out, so I tried a BM- moon. There's two problems with this boss. 1. It can use Binding Glare, which inflicts Paralysis. 2. It can cast Death. The White Tiger Mask can prevent paralysis, while the Ribbon can prevent Death. I ended up leveling up to 99 because I could (I was L87 before and it doesn't take that much EXP for the extra 12 levels), but the simple trick was to farm for Light Curtains since Death can be Reflected, which also helps for the boss's Flare and Tornado spells. The last five floors before this boss have very rare encounters, but you can steal Light Curtains from them. As a bonus, this game lets you steal multiple items from the same enemy. So after one lengthy battle in the area, I ran out with 24 Light Curtains. From there, it was a breeze. Next, the final battle. First phase does nothing but Drain/Osmose. Second mimics your attacks but does nothing else, so I got hit with Binding Glare a few times and made it out well. Third form has Meteor, Flare, and Holy, but a Light Curtain can nullify the latter two, and Meteor only takes off 3k or so damage from Edge's 6k HP. Last phase can heal for 9999 (irrelevant since Edge does over 10k in the three turns he gets to the final boss's one after Haste/Slow), do a physical attack for ~1.5k (Blink nullifies it), an attack that does ~1.5k and inflicts Sap, and an attack that does 4k, plus Black Hole/Holy, meaning I can't reflect it and have to reapply Haste/Blink. That said, it wasn't too difficult, and I didn't even have to throw anything. All in all, not a bad challenge. The first third is definitely the worst part, assuming you're not importing data from Edge's Tale and start with a L25 weakling who can barely scratch the enemies around Baron. Once he has good equipment, he'll start raining death on everyone. Edge's biggest and perhaps sole flaw is that he can't really take a physical hit too well, though stick him in the back row and have him at a high enough level and he'll evade a ton of attacks. Other than that, his weapons are great (throwing weapons great for back row and flying enemies, his two ultimates casting Haste and Blink), his speed lets him run circles around enemies, Smash&Grab (aka Mug) can be handy, and Ninjutsu can be surprisingly useful and powerful. Plus he alone gets the Fire Scarf, which combined with the Protect Ring lets him absorb Fire/Ice/Thunder attacks, very handy for some enemies/bosses. I don't know if this challenge is really that feasible for characters who aren't Edge. I don't think anyone else gets elemental absorption, farming for Light Curtains when you can't steal them is a major pain, and some characters can't really use Haste. Then again, some characters can do ton more damage, or have much better defensive magic, so who knows. If I tried another solo game, I'd probably go with Rydia. Don't know how far I'd get with that one, though. Now to figure out what I want to do next. Maybe that "Extreme" FJF I was talking about.
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Jul 6, 2012 21:03
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I rereg'd for the Fiesta, and my first three jobs are Knight, Berserker, Ninja. Unless I get Chemist for the fourth one, this is going to be rough.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:11
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Obviously do a Leonora solo 
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Jul 6, 2012 22:13
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Speaking of the Fiesta, they've almost reached their goal of raising $2k, and there's still two whole months to go. That's pretty great.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:23
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The White Dragon posted:So you're saying a setting that requires a loving encyclopedia to get anything more out of than "my what a pretty setting" isn't a complete failure? You tend to believe that a game should give you as little as possible and allow you to work with that, but not everyone agrees. I'm not defending FFXIII here, but it's really appealing to certain kinds of settings to have things like that. Not just in video games but in books as well. It really depends on how the game is designed and who the players are. For some people the appeal is in exploring the world created by someone else. For others it is in being given a playground and basic information that they can use to make up their own story. Both have their own appeal. Again, this may or may not apply to FFXIII (depending on who really likes/dislikes it) but it isn't a universal feeling.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:24
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Dr Pepper posted:Obviously do a Leonora solo She might actually be feasible with lots of grinding, since she learns all white magic and gains access to black spells like Stop and the -agas. Plus her biggest problem, the insane grinding needed to gain her most powerful spells, actually works in her favor in a solo run since it's much easier to gain EXP for one. Plus I'd have to actually import data to use her since she won't appear in the end-game unless you import Palom's Tale. Of course, the problem would be soloing that tale considering Leonora doesn't learn the -ra spells until L41. 
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Jul 6, 2012 22:27
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I don't think anybody would begrudge you using Palom for beating Palom's Tale and maybe getting some nice things from the Challenge Dungeon.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:29
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Harley solo. Admit it, you know you're going to do it eventually. 
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Jul 6, 2012 22:29
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Hedera Helix posted:Harley solo. Admit it, you know you're going to do it eventually. Hmm, actually getting to use the Economical Ring (doubles effectiveness of items) means X-Potions would essentially act as Elixirs. That's a lot of money saved for Gil Toss. But then you factor in Harley's horrible stats and equipment options and realize there's no way it could ever be worth it. Dr Pepper posted:I don't think anybody would begrudge you using Palom for beating Palom's Tale and maybe getting some nice things from the Challenge Dungeon. I'd probably have to use Palom to beat the boss of that tale, but otherwise I think soloing the rest is feasible. And it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever do one of those drat challenge dungeons again.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:34
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I liked the Challenge Dungeons so welp v v
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Jul 6, 2012 22:36
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The Challenge Dungeons added some longetivity to the tales when they were episodic, and you were waiting for the next batch to hit. With an all-in-one batch like FFIVCC, they just feel like wasted time that could be used finishing up the other tales to get to The Crystals. I did them for completion's sake, but now I've got a bunch of 100% complete tales that I'll never have to redo, and can just move straight to the last tale if I ever feel like replaying the game.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:39
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I think it helped that I played the PSP version, which greatly increased the rate in which you get the good stuff in exchange for only being able to get one of each. Fair trade off, I'd say.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:41
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Fister Roboto posted:I rereg'd for the Fiesta, and my first three jobs are Knight, Berserker, Ninja. Unless I get Chemist for the fourth one, this is going to be rough. Eh. Samurai works just as well, giving three people Coin Toss and spamming it with sufficient gil is pretty much all it takes to beat Neo XD (and a lot of other bosses, natch). You don't actually need magic or the ability to do non-trivial elemental damage for anything except Fork Tower and there's no compelling reason for you to bother with that party other than a few random things like Guard Rings; 6 legendary weapons should be more than enough and you'll never be able to use Flare or Holy anyway. That's not the worst party you could have gotten by a longshot. Cheer up guy! 
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Jul 6, 2012 22:45
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Dual Wield on a Knight is pretty awesome though. Or Equip Sword on a Ninja.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:47
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The White Dragon posted:So you're saying a setting that requires a loving encyclopedia to get anything more out of than "my what a pretty setting" isn't a complete failure? Ok I agree. That's not what you said before though. Read your own post again, it's crazy. The White Dragon posted:Anything that requires you to read more than, say, five to ten NPC boxes of flavor to engage you or for you to sufficiently enjoy it or tell you everything meaningful you need to know about a place is an absolute failure. FF13 is wordy and intangible, but that's not a failure in itself. The Ivalice games are too, only they're backed up by people, politics and events that aren't stupid.
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Jul 6, 2012 22:48
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Schwartzcough posted:What do you mean by "less convenient?" As in, lacking in 5's flexibility? That's true, I suppose, but 5 and 6 were very different experiences. 5 is a very lighthearted adventure with a pretty laughable "plot," which had static characters that were really just coat racks for jobs. 6 has a much more character-focused and cohesive story. It was much darker, and the characters and events were more memorable. The jobs of 5 were split up and made into their own characters. Mechanically speaking, the characters you choose in 6 are simply the jobs you choose in 5, except instead of levelling them up to get more abilities in the job tree, you have to level each job's stats up on their own, with a handful of variable job abilities you can equip via items (relics) instead of having a dedicated slot to it. edit: I'm simplifying things a little but that's essentially it Bonaventure fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 6, 2012 |
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Jul 6, 2012 22:52
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Tempo 119 posted:FF13 is wordy and intangible, but that's not a failure in itself. The Ivalice games are too, only they're backed up by people, politics and events that aren't stupid. FFXIII biggest problem is its lack of focus in the writing. What it really needed was an editor to go through the script and get rid of so much of the chaff. I mean, it's not like it doesn't have an interesting story to tell, or potentially interesting characters to work with, it's that the execution is mired due to the known slipshod development. It's hard to create a flowing narrative when diferent bits are crudely stitched together from half ideas, or cut content or what have you. That's why you end up with things like the antagonists who feel as though they should have a major impact on the story, barely having five minutes of screen time, before being unceremoniously bumped off, or shoved to the side and forgotten. Or scenes that should be spaced out, but being lumped together because of terrible pacing. Or the infamous 20 hour "tutorial", before being allowed off the leash, and being given full access to the combat system. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 6, 2012 |
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Jul 6, 2012 23:10
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I gave the Lightning DLC for XIII-2 a shot today. Pretty interesting in terms of the abilities Lightning can use, but it's easy to win the first fight if you have a basic understanding of the battle system; I would've won the first fight at Level 2 if I hadn't gotten cocky when Caius was in COM mode. I have no idea what triggers going into the second fight, but I beat him three times in a row before it moved on. I was afraid I'd have to do the same fight over and over again until I hit Level 10, so I was glad when the fight transitioned at Level 5. I just need to buy/finish the Snow and Gilgamesh stuff and I'll have 100% finished the DLC, but the game was already getting boring while I was working towards Platinum, so I think I'll give those a pass.
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Jul 6, 2012 23:17
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Fister Roboto posted:I rereg'd for the Fiesta, and my first three jobs are Knight, Berserker, Ninja. Unless I get Chemist for the fourth one, this is going to be rough. This is very close to my first run of Knight, Berserker, Ninja, Berserker  It was pretty rough, and I had to level a little bit in certain areas but it was still very much doable. Here are some tips though for this kind of team;
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Jul 6, 2012 23:31
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The White Dragon posted:So you're saying a setting that requires a loving encyclopedia to get anything more out of than "my what a pretty setting" isn't a complete failure? There's also the added problem that if you do a future setting (and this is an inherent problem of doing them I'm told) people may also lose the sort of automatic frame of reference they can get from other stuff. I don't have to know where FF9 takes place EXACTLY, but I see recognizable Renaissance stuff and oh hey a castle and hey steam engines I kinda know what steam is; I can make some early assumptions about the setting. Midgar is some 20th century thing with slums; oh hey dirty looking trains and cars I know what those are. Spira is kinda of wonky they have robots but most don't work oh hey it's fantasy Hawaii or some poo poo right? Cool. I don't really have a frame of reference in my head for places like Cocoon except maybe "hey remember blade runner" which is a good setting for "can put in anything we like if we need to". This is especially bad in 13, because you really couldn't interact with the environment so you can't even fill in the blanks in your head what those places offscreen might look like. I'll be totally honest and admit I'm biased against technocity settings though. The future setting of most things can fall to the danger of being way too visually busy, stuff not looking like anything people would use/wear because it goes to weird with its visuals. Not to mention "looks too clean", etc.
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Jul 7, 2012 00:17
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X, XII and XIII are all very weird visually. I think they kind of over-design things at this point. I think we're overdue for a Final Fantasy game that has a early 20th century look, like 1920s-1940s. Yeah, I know people are getting sick of the WWII thing, but who doesn't want to fight Nazis driving around in Magitek Armor?
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Jul 7, 2012 00:25
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The downside to doing future settings is that they can date very quickly. Take Fritz Lang's Metropolis for instance.   It's obviously Art Deco, and very 1920s Or this from Gerry Anderson's Captain Scarlet.   That's so 60s it hurts. And now FFXIII is obviously made with more modern and current fashion trends as to what is futuristic.   There's also a disturbing trend for neon still, (not seen in the above images) because neon and blues and whites and organic curves are to our idea of the future, as flashing lights and magnetic tape was to the 60s. The benefits however, is the potential for something to look fresh and vibrant, without being Gray, Crumbling Ruin #45, or a generic Medieval town where people act more like they're at a renaissance fair. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 7, 2012 |
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Jul 7, 2012 00:37
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Pesky Splinter posted:The downside to doing future settings is that they can date very quickly. It's not just a futuristic setting though, it's a fantasy setting. There are giant god-like machines created by actual gods running the show.
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