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Chances are all those strips that the plaster was put on was acting in a similar fashion to nogging. For non load bearing stuff its not really required, but its good practice, especially around doorframes.
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Jul 3, 2012 03:21
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no way... lath won't do anything close to that. Hell, I could take two studs with all the lath still attached and either rip the studs off 4 feet worth of lath at a time just by twisting them, or scissor fold it to the point that it'd fit through a window.
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Jul 3, 2012 03:28
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kastein posted:no way... lath won't do anything close to that. Hell, I could take two studs with all the lath still attached and either rip the studs off 4 feet worth of lath at a time just by twisting them, or scissor fold it to the point that it'd fit through a window. After spending many days tearing out an entire house full of plaster and lathe bit by bit (attached to studs, which did not come out), may I just say I hate you so much right now?  What's "nogging"? Is it anything like a firestop (staggered 2x4's in between studs to prevent fires from rising so quickly)?
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Jul 3, 2012 03:56
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Nogging is a firestop. There are about five different names for it. Its called nogging in Australia and New Zealand. I could talk for hours about nogging but that's boring as hell and hard to do on a mobile phone.
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Jul 3, 2012 04:06
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daggerdragon posted:After spending many days tearing out an entire house full of plaster and lathe bit by bit (attached to studs, which did not come out), may I just say I hate you so much right now? it took that long? It took me like one day to demolish each room (and that's a bit of an overstatement - I generally had most of it done by around lunchtime, but ran out of energy after that), the only real time consuming part is shoveling the debris up. Holy hell I hate shoveling plaster. If it takes that long - you're either being way more careful than you need to be, or your plaster is a lot more tenacious. Mine was old horsehair, so all I had to do was use a wrecking bar. Punch one hole to start, then just sorta peel it away from the studs working from top to bottom and let the plaster fall off as you go. Some of my kitchen was redone at some point with more modern plaster that I suspect contained plaster of paris, it was fairly hard and I had to smack the debris with the wrecking bar to make the plaster actually break free from the lath. I don't waste any time with detail till I'm done - usually spend a few hours knocking most of the lath down with the plaster on it, then put down the wrecking bar, grab the cats paw and go back around removing any remnants, fragments, lath tacks that didn't come out, etc. Then I shovel it all up and go back over it again with a shopvac to pick up any piles of debris stuck in corners. kastein fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Jul 3, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 04:32
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Today finished all the electrical for the gooney hacker den, aside from one remaining romex run for the light fixture (don't know where I'm putting it yet.) Ran dual 2" PVC conduit from the basement to the attic for comms/data cabling with a friend/goon yesterday, currently bending 1" EMT and installing boxes on each wall for the hacker den's comms/data ports. My setup is - a duplex box (extra large size, with reducing plaster ring) on each wall, with a 1" EMT run up into the attic. This way I'll be able to easily change the cables and sockets I have installed without doing any plastering in the future. Anything that needs to be run to the basement can be pulled in through the two 2" conduit runs, also without doing any plastering. I'm going to install the same duplex box and conduit setup on each wall of each downstairs room as well, just routed to the basement instead.
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Jul 3, 2012 21:39
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Ferremit posted:You yanks can do so much cool stuff we're not allowed to down under... Technically plumbing has to be done by a licenced plumber, power HAS to be done by an electrician or your house insurance is void if it burns down... In most municipalities here in the States, you can do whatever the hell you want to your own property as long as you pull permits when required to do so by local ordinance. When you pull permits, you usually have to present some sort of plan for what you intend to do, including what sort of systems you'll be modifying (electrical, structural, plumbing) and to what extent you intend to alter them. The catch is that you have to get your poo poo inspected by the local building inspector as construction progresses to ensure it complies with current code. If you fail to get inspections at the proper intervals and/or don't put poo poo together properly, the inspector can make you tear it all out and start from scratch if he so chooses. e: and yes, you can totally do stuff off the books and hope nobody notices, but you're probably gonna get hosed by the home inspector if you try to sell down the road Coasterphreak fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jul 4, 2012 |
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Jul 4, 2012 04:37
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Coasterphreak posted:
Depends on your area. We've spent the last three years fixing poo poo the 'contractor' who remodeled and flipped this house mickey-moused in while he was at it. Last week was discovering that he just buried all the brick debris as fill under the back part of the yard, so 12" down we hit a layer of the poo poo when digging post holes for a new fence.
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Jul 4, 2012 23:34
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Coasterphreak posted:e: and yes, you can totally do stuff off the books and hope nobody notices, but you're probably gonna get hosed by the home inspector if you try to sell down the road correct. I can only get away with a little here, especially because I have permits for the roof and some of the interior work I've done now, and will be pulling one for asbestos siding removal as well. If I had simply not pulled any permits and just done everything quickly I probably could get away with drat near anything. The previous owners sure as poo poo never got permits for half this crap. They'd have had the place condemned if they did! Every time I open a wall I find another horror.
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Jul 4, 2012 23:40
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kastein posted:Every time I open a wall I find another horror. Ever found a can of arsenic?
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Jul 5, 2012 01:05
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hahahaha nope, but I did find 4 coffee cans of (marginally crispy) electrical wiring and one extra large coffee can of chimney smoke.
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Jul 5, 2012 01:58
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It might be an idea to get someone else to remove the asbestos. That poo poo is horrible to remove and the experts have it down to a fine science. Unless its not flaking. Then you may as well not touch it. Less fires.
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Jul 5, 2012 02:36
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There is a reason for everything I do... you're approximately person #9005 to suggest leaving it there. It looks like poo poo, some of it is cracked (but none of it is flaking/friable), it's already the second layer (they left the original wood clapboards on when they put the asbestos up) and I've had to remove some of it* to do the roof already, since the flashing had to go under the siding. All the layers of siding have already made the walls about an inch thicker than they're supposed to be, which is making finding prehung doors and windows to fit impossible, and custom ones are expensive as hell. It's going to make doing exterior trim and new window frames a nightmare, too. Oh, I have to remove some of it to jack up a wall and replace the sill plates anyways, and more to redo the front porch, back porch, and put in a new chimney. Basically, there isn't a single wall I won't have to partially remove the asbestos siding from at some point, so I see absolutely no reason to leave it when I'm going to have to go through almost all the steps anyways. I asked the building inspector who he would recommend for asbestos siding removal last time he was out here to take a look around, and he said gently caress that, he could write me a permit for that no problem if I jumped through the right hoops. I've read the paperwork he gave me and it really doesn't look too bad - I obviously have to wear protection, put down a dropcloth, soak the work area, and double bag all debris, avoiding breakage. Then I have to deal with some paperwork and have a licensed disposal firm haul it away. It looks like it will cost well under 200 a ton (most I've seen cost 60-150 a ton, in fact) to dispose of the waste, the permit will cost me a few hundred, and the tyvek suits and respirator filter packs shouldn't cost more than a few hundred either. I'm having the experts remove the asbestos pipe insulation in the basement as it's partially damaged, extremely friable when touched, and illegal for me to do it, plus it'd be retarded to even try to do it myself, but the siding should not be a problem and I am doing it myself. kastein fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jul 5, 2012 |
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Jul 5, 2012 03:38
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Yeah if its flakingneeds to go. Sorry for the knee jrek but its the automatic for me. Even here in australia with our stringent work processes for buildings you get people who think they can pull it out themselves. I once had a guy walk in with a bag of the poo poo he pulled off his house when I was working in a hardware store asking where to put it. I thing he got the most abusive and expletive ridden response from a retail worker ever.
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Jul 5, 2012 04:09
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kastein posted:I asked the building inspector who he would recommend for asbestos siding removal last time he was out here to take a look around, and he said gently caress that, he could write me a permit for that no problem if I jumped through the right hoops. I've read the paperwork he gave me and it really doesn't look too bad - I obviously have to wear protection, put down a dropcloth, soak the work area, and double bag all debris, avoiding breakage. Then I have to deal with some paperwork and have a licensed disposal firm haul it away. It looks like it will cost well under 200 a ton (most I've seen cost 60-150 a ton, in fact) to dispose of the waste, the permit will cost me a few hundred, and the tyvek suits and respirator filter packs shouldn't cost more than a few hundred either. Your average homeowner, on the other hand, can do it themselves by paying the local dump $75 to dig a hole and bury it. Most people do it themselves. At least the asbestos slate is basically just cement board with some asbestos fibers mixed in, so it's pretty stable if you follow the proper procedures. The asbestos insulation, on the other hand, is scary, scary stuff. Plotterboy posted:Yeah if its flakingneeds to go. Sorry for the knee jrek but its the automatic for me. Even here in australia with our stringent work processes for buildings you get people who think they can pull it out themselves. I once had a guy walk in with a bag of the poo poo he pulled off his house when I was working in a hardware store asking where to put it. The US kind of lucked out with the asbestos craze. Most of what got used here was chrysotile (white asbestos), which while still carcinogenic, supposedly causes cancer less often than the amphibole type (blue or brown asbestos). So how your local government views asbestos removal may vary pretty drastically based on which form was more common for your area.
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Jul 5, 2012 05:01
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kastein posted:it took that long? It took me like one day to demolish each room (and that's a bit of an overstatement - I generally had most of it done by around lunchtime, but ran out of energy after that), the only real time consuming part is shoveling the debris up. Holy hell I hate shoveling plaster. My house was built in the late 1880s, probably, and it shows. The lathes were clearly made by hand, hand-nailed across 3 studs, and the plaster was an inch thick in places. It was bad enough that I was using a sawzall just to break up the plaster enough to get a hold of each lathe to pull it off the nails. Some places, I got lucky enough to be able to use a sledgehammer, but even then, it'd just bounce off the thicker plaster sometimes.  Also not helping was layers of paint over wallpaper over drywall over stick-on wallpaper from the 70s over glued-on wallpaper from the 30s over that plaster and lathe. Some rooms even had wood panelling over/under all that. I've been meaning to re-measure my rooms and see if I gained square footage just from removing the built-up walls. I bet you $5 I did. It's done now, but ye gods, I'm never doing that again.
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Jul 5, 2012 17:49
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yikes! I had it easy compared to that. Most of it was 1/2" thick over the lath (maximum) and heavily water damaged so it came down easy. No wallpaper, either. I gained 16% square footage in my bathroom when I took down the walls  they were 3-4" thick from 120 years of owners simply throwing another layer of whatever they wanted over the previous walls. It took me a long time to gut that room.
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Jul 5, 2012 17:57
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kastein posted:yikes! I had it easy compared to that. Most of it was 1/2" thick over the lath (maximum) and heavily water damaged so it came down easy. No wallpaper, either. Did the the walls provide any sound proofing? Could you have a rock concert and not have anyone else in the house notice?
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Jul 5, 2012 23:53
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Cleared the demolition debris out of the stairs so I can actually walk up and down them again, and put in some more of the new rafters. Old ones were 1x8, very old, not level, etc so I removed one at a time and replaced with 2x8s. Stairwell cleared (mostly) and scaffolding/work platform in place:  You can see the new rafters through the wall I put in a while ago:  And a slightly better view:  Next I need to shovel up another few hundred pounds of debris and then tear up more floorboards. I have 7 sheets of 3/4 ply waiting to go in in this room. e: wow, the stairs in my house are really blurry. Cellphones take horrible pictures when presented with bright light as well as darkness... kastein fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jul 7, 2012 |
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Jul 7, 2012 19:07
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oops protip: unless you are Jesus, standing on the joists instead of the lath and plaster ceiling is a wise choice. Fortunately did not injure myself much and was able to keep working.
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Jul 8, 2012 03:27
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Congrats. Falling through the ceiling is the last step to being a builder!
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Jul 8, 2012 03:53
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Plotterboy posted:Congrats. Falling through the ceiling is the last step to being a builder! This, most of us do it at least once. Kind of a right of passage, like shooting yourself with a nail gun.
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Jul 8, 2012 04:49
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Here's hoping I never do that. gently caress that, my nailgun's got 16d framing nails in it! I have already shocked the poo poo out of myself with 120VAC though, years ago. And hit my thumbs with my 22oz framing hammer. And burned myself with the propane torch sweating pipe... ... so I think I can probably skip cutting myself with the circ saw and shooting myself with the nailgun. I'm also glad that the ceiling I put my foot through is getting ripped out in a few weeks anyways. No real loss there.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:09
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kastein posted:Here's hoping I never do that. gently caress that, my nailgun's got 16d framing nails in it! Yea, I worked as a cabinet builder for years, it happens. In fact I managed to put a 16d framing nail (gun with a screwed up safety) right into the end of my boot. Luckily it went right between 2 toes. Worst was falling off a scaffold though. BTW, nice work with the subflooring, liquid nails is a builders best friend.
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Jul 8, 2012 06:12
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I used to look after my fathers apprentices. Usually the conversation went like this: "careful of the nailgun" "I KNOW WHAT IM DOING" *Kachunk!* Most of the time people get the nails in the webbing between thier thumb and forefinger, so its not that bad. However, one of our subbies had a big toe for a thumb. This was because he was working alone once and nailed his thumb to the wall with framing nails through the bone. He had to amputate so he wouldn't be standing there all night and get to hospital.
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Jul 8, 2012 06:49
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Plotterboy posted:I used to look after my fathers apprentices. Usually the conversation went like this: Oh god, this sounds so familiar. The sound of a large nailgun is so very distinctive, and you can always tell by the sound when it's gone through something other than wood. And yes, it is often right in the webbing. My father always joked that he'd shot himself with a pin nailer/staplegun a few times, but never anyone else. Then he nailed a new guy to a desk, right through the web of his thumb. If you've ever done this, you know it doesn't really hurt that much, but the poor bastard passed out and then begged to be taken to the ER. Crap, really didn't mean to hijack your great thread kastein, maybe we should make a injury in the line of duty/hobby thread. Actually, should probably be just named WHOOPS!
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Jul 8, 2012 08:05
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Poisonlizard posted:This, most of us do it at least once. Kind of a right of passage, like shooting yourself with a nail gun. Been there, done that. I shot myself with 3 1/4 inch framing nail (luckily not a 16 since my Bostich nailer won't shoot those), right through my left middle finger. I *think* it went above the bone (I was able to pull it out myself and didn't go to the hospital). Although if you look at the scar, it certainly looks like it would have gone right through it. The crazy thing is the little wire bits from the coil stopped right before it went into my skin - otherwise I'm certain I would have had to go to the ER to get it cut out. I bought the nailer used and it came with the contact fire trigger. Great for sheeting, not so great for framing when you need to accurately place a nail. I had a wall laying down and was nailing on the top plate - I was holding the outside 2x4 with my left hand and tried to place the first nail. The nailgun recoil-fired a nail right along the first stud and into my finger. I assessed the situation, took a photo, and decided to pull it out myself rather than go to the hospital. I have a high deductible health plan, so an ER trip would be a minimum of $1,150 out of my pocket. I could move the nail and bend my finger (as much as you can bend it when there's a nail sticking in it), so I gave it a shot. I got extremely lucky - I have full range of motion of that finger and didn't get an infection. I went out and bought the sequential fire trigger the following Monday (something I put off doing because I thought they'd have to order it and it turned out they had one on the shelf). I still love my nailgun, even if it is the second most dangerous tool I own. LordOfThePants fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 13:13
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No worries on the derail - I derail my own threads sometimes... I have to say, I'm gonna keep my claw hammer on hand from now on just in case I put a nail through something I didn't want to, at least I can reach it and try to free myself then. Also, on the liquid nails - thanks, an ex builder friend of mine from Intel told me I should use adhesive under the subflooring to avoid squeaks in the future, so I've been using it everywhere. Another ex builder friend of mine (one of my neighbors) was over a few days ago and suggested that I buy the loctite subflooring adhesive next time since he thinks it's better, but I still have most of a case of liquid nails before I even have to think about that. Looks like everyone else bitched out of the 4 wheeling run I was going on, and I don't want to end up broken and stuck in the middle of an unfamiliar trail far from home, so I'm going to spend the day building, and maybe hit a local trail or two in the evening if I still feel like it.
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Jul 8, 2012 15:37
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You want a pair of pinchers to take the head off a nail that has gone into your hand. A claw hammer would hurt like gently caress as you would probably have to brace it on part of your hand. The toe-thumb guy used to keep pinchers in his belt at all times after his little adventure. Also there Isn't a huge amount of difference between loctite and liquid nails that I can remember off the top of my head. Did the hole you made in the ceiling patch up easily enough?
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Jul 8, 2012 15:57
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Good point - I have a fairly high tolerance for pain, but don't feel like pushing it that much. I have a set of end nippers I use for cutting nails that are too long, will have to keep those in the toolbelt too... I use plastic-stripped nails instead of metal wire stripped/coil nails, so hopefully it wouldn't hurt too much to pull through if this ever happened to me. Obviously, going to aim for it not happening at all. Not bothering to patch the ceiling. I'll be hitting it with a crowbar in a few weeks anyways, so the most I'll do is throw some cardboard and duct tape over it to keep the dust down.
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Jul 8, 2012 16:13
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One of the guys i used to work with (he retired) was a chippy before he started with national Parks. He was on site building a house, and was making up a wall frame panel on the slab before standing it up and sticking it into place. Put a nail through his hand (as in, middle of the back, out through the palm!) with the nailgun, so tried to go get his hammer to remove it. Problem was, he was very well attached to the wall frame by this point, and no matter how he tried to move it in the room he was in, he couldnt get to the point of reaching his hammer. So he sat down, had a smoke and waited until his foreman got back. 200mm out of reach of his hammer. For 4 hours.
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Jul 9, 2012 13:54
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Just used up 20 2x4s in record time. This laser level really has me moving fast, never using a plumb line again. Another room is nearly framed in (the one that was behind the chimney in most of the pictures so far) and ready for the electrical crew to start... *switches hats* A few people are gonna be by for a short notice BBQ + campfire tonight, anyone who wants to is welcome to come. email at username at w1kas.net for address/phone number.
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Jul 9, 2012 19:52
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Some old stuff I did last week that I don't think I took pics of or posted: lab/office/gooney hacker den closet wall is framed in, so is the door frame. Didn't go with such overkill on the header this time.   And what I did yesterday: Threw down a few more sheets of plywood. Didn't take pics, it looks just like every other sheet of plywood I've glued/screwed into this place. Then I got down to business and framed in another door RO and wall.   Then I ran out of 2x4s.
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Jul 10, 2012 16:48
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it is quite literally 110+ degrees in my attic. I need to bring a fan up there or some poo poo, this is making wiring very tiring.
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Jul 11, 2012 18:16
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No pictures since it basically looks the same, but I've installed the ceiling boxes for the linked smoke alarms, more comms/network port outlet boxes and conduit, and boxes+conduit for the thermostats. Why boxes and conduit for the comms stuff? I never want to open the walls again, for any reason. So I've installed a pair of 2" conduit runs from the attic to the basement, as well as a 4-11/16" square box w/ dual gang plaster ring on each wall of each bedroom and a 1" EMT run to the attic. The first floor rooms will receive the same treatment, just with the EMT running to the basement instead. This way, whenever I need to update the network cabling, add a CATV drop, run audio cables, or anything else, I can simply fish it in from point to point and add a proper socket on each end. Why for the thermostats? I haven't decided if I'm doing just radiant heat, or if I may add central air conditioning in the future. Adding air requires another conductor or two depending on the system, adding a heat pump or multistate heating/cooling requires even more, so I figured while the walls are down I may as well spend an extra $20 and have boxes and conduit so if I upgrade past the number of conductors in the thermostat cable, I can add more as required.
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Jul 14, 2012 22:37
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As someone who just ran 1"/1.5" conduit with cat5, audio and fiber in a few hundred concrete homes, good call with 2". 1.5" just doesn't cut it if you're trying to swap a single run with the other cables in place. You won't regret going nuts and adding lots more conduit if you feel like it, I would sleep better just knowing it was there... in case I needed add an outlet in an emergency or something. If I ever build a house my walls will be a habitrail (with hamsters). If you have time I would really enjoy some pictures of your conduit, but obviously, you're much busier than I am. Also I appreciate this thread, your time, and wish you continued best of luck. 
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Jul 17, 2012 04:59
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Thanks! Hopefully I'll get some pics today after I finish up the second bedroom closet walls and subflooring. The pics are probably going to be very boring to you - each 2" run is simply two 10-footer PVC sections cemented end to end with a right angle pull box at the top and nothing at the bottom. I'll probably put an elbow and/or a pull box on the bottom, but not really sure I need to, they're really only in there to make pulling cable easy, since it'll all be comms stuff. I had it easy, since there was the old chimney chase - I just mounted the conduit in that since the chimney is moving to a different location. If I'd had to find a way to snake it through a 2x4 wall I may not have bothered, since cutting out the top/bottom plates for 2" conduit would weaken the structure a lot. The conduit to each wall box is only 1" like I said - also very boring runs, maybe 6 feet long on each, except for a few that are 10 feet. Maybe two bends, most are straight or have a single bend. I wish I'd been able to run 1.5" or 2" for each of them, but honestly I don't expect to need it and I couldn't find boxes with knockouts for anything over 1" unless I went completely overboard, so 4-11/16" square boxes and 1" EMT it is.
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Jul 17, 2012 16:51
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More progress. Did some demolition, some wiring, some floorboards, and some framing today. Tore up the old floorboards around the second bedroom's closet door / the top of the stairwell and found this:  I'm not sure why this was done this way. Judging by the level of oxidation on the upper ends of the 2x6s there, it appears they were cut off level with the framing 50+ years ago and boarded over. I couldn't find anything they would have been attached to at the upper end, no nail holes in the rafters, nothing. The walls around that area were all plaster and lath just like the rest of the room, so it didn't seem to have been modified. Oh well, seems structural enough, so I left it alone and threw the new floorboards down. More floorboards done:  (the screwy framing shown in the first pic is approximately behind the studs the wrecking bar is leaning on, and continue across the end of the stairwell parallel to the old wall with the windows in it) A really crummy picture of the old chimney chase, which is now "that convenient utility passageway to mount conduit and pipes in":  You can actually see all the way to the basement floor here, it's just really blurry. The large 2" PVC conduit is for comms cable from basement to attic, the 1" EMT runs each lead to a duplex box on the wall of a bedroom, and the 1/2" EMT is for thermostats. I ran one 1/2" EMT from each thermostat box on the second floor to the attic and another 1/2" EMT straight down to the basement. When I choose a location for the new furnace I'll continue that run to whatever box the furnace controller / zone control valve stuff is installed in or around. All that remains of the old floorboards in the second bedroom:  First order of business tomorrow is to cut the steam pipe for the old radiator out of the way, tear that flooring up, toss the new subflooring in, then hit Home Depot for a roll of 6mil clear poly sheeting, more commercial grade 20A receptacles, a few more 20A AFCI breakers (holy hell these are expensive, hope they're worth it), some more 2" PVC conduit and 45 degree elbows, and maybe another 32x80 preframed door or three and a truckload of blow-in insulation. e: I ran the numbers and the flooring I want to use is going to run me around $800-900 per room, unless I overestimated. Holy hell, I guess I'm walking on 3/4 CDX for a while. e2: as of 2016 still walking on subflooring  and fixed the images.
kastein fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2012 05:43
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kastein posted:e: I ran the numbers and the flooring I want to use is going to run me around $800-900 per room, unless I overestimated. Holy hell, I guess I'm walking on 3/4 CDX for a while. Just FYI, living on subflooring for awhile, especially with pets, will gather sawdust- and dust-bunny tumbleweeds and various pieces of metal and wire and dropped screws that somehow fuse to the floor when you try to sweep them up, requiring you to go around and physically pick them all up one by one. 
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Jul 18, 2012 16:30
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Looking good! Nice to see I'm not the only guy who bought a house that is filled with plaster and asbestos.
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Jul 19, 2012 03:41
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