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rope kid posted:The Courier is not an amnesiac. Questions about the NCR, Legion, local goings on, etc. are present so the player does not stumble around without a clue. We can't assume any given player is familiar with these factions. While I realize it's retarded to disagree with you on the point, I'm going to file this one with "Yes man doesn't turn on you" under "things rope kid says that I just don't buy." It's probably the whole.. shot in the head thing that casts this light on everything else. I mean, the protagonist from fallout 1/2 had 0 back story too, and nobody thought they had amnesia. Combine that with not knowing where anything is despite having been there and people showing up telling me things I did and it's pretty easy to see where people draw that conclusion even if it isn't canon.
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Jul 23, 2012 21:22
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Clearly the only explanation is that you haven't figured out how to manually add things to the map on your PIP-Boy so you have to find the place or have someone else do it for you. I mean, you got shot in the head. My grandma can't figure out an iPad and she never got shot in the head. It's always "Grandma let me just open the app for you so I don't sit here for 30 minutes while you fumble around the interface". e: and the courier just loves making conversation about anything.
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Jul 23, 2012 21:32
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Kharmakazy posted:While I realize it's retarded to disagree with you on the point, I'm going to file this one with "Yes man doesn't turn on you" under "things rope kid says that I just don't buy." But really, that just means they didn't expand upon it enough in-game, not that it's actually the opposite of what he said (Yes Man not going evil, for one). I never understood the amnesiac argument, though. Even if the Courier passed through Mojave Outpost and Primm before being intercepted at Goodsprings, he still wouldn't have necessarily hung around long enough to ask about them or the region in general. That, and while the Powder Gangers have been out and about for awhile, their takeover of Primm seems recent judging by the way people talk about it, and it's not unreasonable to assume that the few days you were laid up was when they rolled up, killed the sheriff, caught the deputy, etc.
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Jul 23, 2012 21:38
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I never figured the Courier for an amnesiac, because there's plenty of little conversation options sprinkled throughout the game that clearly indicate he/she knows what the hell is going on (for example, the singing cowboy north of Novac has a dialogue option that results in the Courier alluding to the fact that he has banged a chick in what is left of Montana). I think that a lot of conversation options where you're asking about the NCR or the Legion or the Strip are getting misconstrued as being indicative of the Courier's loss of memory, when if you really look at what he/she is asking, it's always a question directed at how this other person perceives the NCR or Legion or Stip or whatever. It's more "Tell me why you do/do not like the NCR/Legion/Strip" versus "DUH, WHAT IS A TWO HEADED BEAR DOING ON A FLAG? BEARS DON'T GOT TWO HEADS."Mr Newsman posted:Clearly the only explanation is that you haven't figured out how to manually add things to the map on your PIP-Boy so you have to find the place or have someone else do it for you. This is a pretty neat perspective too. The Courier absolutely knows where all of the major points of interest are, but prior to being patched up by the doc in Goodspring, he/she lacked a PipBoy and had no other means of recording the locations. In essence, you're discovering them as the player because this is the point where you join in the Courier's story, but it doesn't mean the Courier as a character had never visited these locations.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:10
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homeless poster posted:
Oh. So the lady at the bar knows how to use the pipboy better than me? Literally everyone in the game that marks something on your map knows how to use the thing instinctively, yet somehow the player just... can't... manage to push those same buttons? This argument doesn't hold up at all.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:18
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Kharmakazy posted:Oh. So the lady at the bar knows how to use the pipboy better than me? Literally everyone in the game that marks something on your map knows how to use the thing instinctively, yet somehow the player just... can't... manage to push those same buttons? This argument doesn't hold up at all. Oh, so a miner who has worked with the machinery in a quarry for many years is more qualified to operate a crane than me? Oh, so a bartender who has made hundreds of drinks over the course of their career is more qualified to pour someone a drink than me? Oh, so literally anyone in the game who needs to mark something on the PipBoy just knows how to use the thing instinctively, and yet somehow I lack the imagination to decide that instead these random passerby are explaining the location to the Courier, and he/she is then manually entering the destination on his/her own? These arguments don't hold up at all!
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Jul 23, 2012 22:35
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And why does time stop when the Courier looks at his watch? Are we to presuppose that he is some sort of quantum time-god? Your move, homeless poster 
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Jul 23, 2012 22:37
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The pipboy is basically powered by plot, anyway. It exists as a convenience for the player, not the character. It breaks the gently caress out of the 4th wall. It fucks your verisimilitude directly in the ear for the sake of gameplay.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:39
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Why does shooting people make the courier better at fixing things! This is absolutely ridiculous!
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Jul 23, 2012 22:44
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spider wisdom posted:As long as we're clear on the difference between plot and storytelling. If you ask me for a plot, I can say "You need to find this macguffin to save the world." If you ask me to tell a story, then I give you the building blocks for that plot piece by piece without just giving you the plot. Right? I don't recall a disjointed series of flashbacks. I apologize. I meant flashforwards rather than flashbacks. The introductory sequence of Fallout 3 is poorly told because the timeskips are jarring and pointless. The game could have started at the disappearance of the player's father and nothing would have been lost. The early scenes should have focused on quieter personal moments if the developers wished to demonstrate an emotional bond. As it is, the game's setpieces are overwhelmed with bland NPCs and overwrought with pointless exposition. The clearest example would be James' disappearance. There is no emotional last dinner with family. He is simply gone. There is no sense of loss or abandonment because the storytelling has effectively minimized player involvement through constant timeskips. I will agree to disagree at this point, but I am interesting in hearing your views. How did the game's mechanics/storytelling succeed at engaging you?
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Jul 23, 2012 22:46
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homeless poster posted:Oh, so literally anyone in the game who needs to mark something on the PipBoy just knows how to use the thing instinctively, and yet somehow I lack the imagination to decide that instead these random passerby are explaining the location to the Courier, and he/she is then manually entering the destination on his/her own? Sometimes they literally say that they're marking it on your map. (I can't recall specific instances offhand though)
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Jul 23, 2012 22:48
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Network42 posted:I found my Fallout 1 spiral-bound manual the other day, and actually made Mushroom Clouds. They are delicious. That is all. Are you saying the manual come with a recipe? If so that's actually pretty cool. Also are there any mods that allow you to gain skill by working on the skill? Like Skyrim or Oblivion where you would level up Sneak by going around in the night shadows or gain lockpicking skill by doing it often.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:48
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homeless poster posted:Oh, so a miner who has worked with the machinery in a quarry for many years is more qualified to operate a crane than me? Your hyperbolic extrapolation of my point is terribly flawed. The bartender has no experience operating a pipboy. The bartender knows where primm is and can mark it on my map. I know where primm is. I am unable to mark it on my map.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:58
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Avocados posted:Are you saying the manual come with a recipe? If so that's actually pretty cool. Tim Cain is apparently quite the culinary wizard.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:00
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Kharmakazy posted:Your hyperbolic extrapolation of my point is terribly flawed. The bartender has no experience operating a pipboy. The bartender knows where primm is and can mark it on my map. I know where primm is. I am unable to mark it on my map. A better explanation (if you really need one for this nitpicky nonsense) would be that the Courier just doesn't care to mark down the locations he/she already knows. This falls apart when you take fast-traveling into account but frankly if 'but what about my magic teleportation!' makes it past the suspension of disbelief and not already marking down map-points before you get there doesn't, then whoever is arguing this is just looking for justification for a very small, specific, and ultimately unimportant part of that world.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:07
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Avocados posted:Are you saying the manual come with a recipe? If so that's actually pretty cool. 
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Jul 23, 2012 23:09
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JawKnee posted:A better explanation (if you really need one for this nitpicky nonsense) would be that the Courier just doesn't care to mark down the locations he/she already knows. This falls apart when you take fast-traveling into account but frankly if 'but what about my magic teleportation!' makes it past the suspension of disbelief and not already marking down map-points before you get there doesn't, then whoever is arguing this is just looking for justification for a very small, specific, and ultimately unimportant part of that world. I understand that the canon is the canon. The dev says so it must be true. It's just all the standard RPG conventions of learning everything from scratch combined with being shot in the head lends itself pretty well to the theory, however factually false that theory is.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:12
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I think the Courier not being amnesiac works well for most of the main game. I do think some of the NCR stuff feels a bit iffy (even with the wording of the questions) but it doesn't really stand out. I think they did a good job of managing the "tutorial speak" and making the Courier not seem totally clueless. I have a much harder time buying the Lonesome Road backstory though. I like the idea of it but it is not believable at all that the Courier would not remember the Divide. They try to play it off like "oh, it was just another location you went through as a Courier" but I don't buy that at all. If you had a job as a Courier and travelled that far and wide, you would loving remember towns. Especially in a dangerous wasteland where the towns would feel even more important as "watering-holes". It's not like traveling today. I imagine it's difficult but I don't think Avellone quite succeeded in the dialogue options provided to the player in LR. I think there should *be* some options like the current ones where the memory's a bit hazy, but I also wish there would be some "aha, yes I *do* remember this place now..." option even though it would obviously require a fuckton of unique dialogue from Ulysses and more unique options for the player to follow up on it. But yeah... I quite like LR but the backstory is one thing in NV I have a hard time buying into about the Courier.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:32
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Leinadi posted:I think the Courier not being amnesiac works well for most of the main game. I do think some of the NCR stuff feels a bit iffy (even with the wording of the questions) but it doesn't really stand out. I think they did a good job of managing the "tutorial speak" and making the Courier not seem totally clueless. The funniest part is you can go in without ever having met anyone from the NCR or Legion and have him drone on about your allegiances despite never having done anything.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:39
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If anything, it's odd that Doc Mitchell gives away his Pip-Boy so easily. Sure, he's settled, and the Courier needs it more, but if they're only given to Vault Dwellers, then they're pretty uncommon, if not fairly rare. And he just gives it away. Awful nice of him. 
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Jul 23, 2012 23:44
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I always wanted to know what Doc Mitchell had taken from him. His wife? Maybe.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:46
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I always wanted to know what Doc Mitchell had taken from him. His wife? Maybe. I was pretty sure it was his wife... in retrospect I have no idea why I think that. Isn't the only other pipboy in the game the broken one in HH? Edit: quote:What does Doc Mitchell mean when he says " I know what it's like to have something taken from you?" I thought you would reference this in a DLC but it never reappeared. Cousin Todd fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 23:48
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OldMemes posted:If anything, it's odd that Doc Mitchell gives away his Pip-Boy so easily. Sure, he's settled, and the Courier needs it more, but if they're only given to Vault Dwellers, then they're pretty uncommon, if not fairly rare. Doc Mitchell is awesome. I felt rotten gunning him down when choosing the "bad" story resolution for Goodsprings. Pretty sure his head flew off.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:49
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Kharmakazy posted:I was pretty sure it was his wife... in retrospect I have no idea why I think that. Well, there's also this.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:52
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Kharmakazy posted:I was pretty sure it was his wife... in retrospect I have no idea why I think that. Do you count the Pimp Boy?
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Jul 23, 2012 23:53
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I always wanted to know what Doc Mitchell had taken from him. His wife? Maybe. It's his vault. He was from vault 21, which house sealed up and forced basically everyone to move out.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:54
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Okimin posted:It's his vault. He was from vault 21, which house sealed up and forced basically everyone to move out. Yeah, apparently it's the Vault. Never knew that. Finding that out did net this useful note on Sarah Weintraub from the Fallout Wiki, which is a borderline cheat code if you ask me: The Fallout Wiki posted:Those with Agoraphobia will avoid sexual situations along with the other situations they are known to avoid, yet Sarah is willing to sleep with you, which would mean she trusts you as people with Agoraphobia fear public humiliation
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Jul 23, 2012 23:55
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I loved the Divide as a location, and Lonesome Road as a DLC, but the plot didn't grab me at all. I don't think anyone really went for the YOU BLEW UP A TOWN BUT DIDN'T REALISE YOU GOOF thing at all. I would have preferred it to be the game's actual finale - the whole thing taking place post Hoover Dam. You've tipped the balance of power and won the war for your faction, and so Ulysses sees you as a threat to America  . Just as you're kicking back in the Lucky 38 with Super Best Friend Arcade Gannon, that mumbly chump gets in touch and tells you to meet him in the Divide. I know it's far from watertight, but I think I would've felt more invested if his motive was a straight-up reaction to what I'd done in the Mojave.Edit: spoilers Beaumont fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 00:01
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Merry Magpie posted:Tim Cain is apparently quite the culinary wizard. 
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Jul 24, 2012 00:09
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Yeah, apparently it's the Vault. Never knew that. Well yeah, you gave her like twenty vault suits! You must be trustworthy! Her brother, on the other hand...  rope kid posted:He makes baked goods for the South Park team every few days. For real. Awwww 
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Jul 24, 2012 00:13
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Sealing up the Vault seems like a dick move, I'm not sure what motive House had for wasting vauable space and resources? As for other Pip-Boys, Keely says she has one in her journals, but it's playing up. And of course, everyone's favourite liar Ricky has a looted one. Father Elijah wears one too, even though he mocks them in dialogue. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 00:14
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So I got J.E Sawyers mod and its a blast. Along with the restored and opened strip and freeside mods, as well as others to restore the cut NPCs after Bethesda's gutting process I think Rope kid would be fairly happy with my game. However, I've hit a snag, I'm in Novac and I need to know whether getting a companion turns the game to easy mode like in the base game, because I'm really enjoying the uncompromising quality of this mod. Anybody know?
khwarezm fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 00:39
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I believe the reason House had it sealed up is that it ran under the Strip, and he didn't want anyone trying to tunnel into the Lucky 38 or whatever. Considering Benny was trying to do exactly this, he kinda had a point. Also, I could've sworn Doc Mitchell's wife dying is what was taken from him, but she dies from disease after leaving the vault, so in a roundabout way House basically caused her death. Whoops! Here's an unanswered mystery for you: what the hell are the kids the Survivalist encounters talking about when they say they escaped from a school and feared the evil principal? At first I thought they might be referencing the school simulator at Big MT, but the idea of a group of kids surviving that death trap seems unlikely at best.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:41
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Sealing up the Vault also works as part of House's general "okay, folks, War's over, let's get back to being Vegas" push.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:48
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Kharmakazy posted:Ten distinctive cigarette butts can be found around your grave. My experience playing games in the 80s made me automatically pick them up, it wasn't until a later play that I realized it was possible to not have enough evidence later. Wolfsheim posted:Here's an unanswered mystery for you: what the hell are the kids the Survivalist encounters talking about when they say they escaped from a school and feared the evil principal? At first I thought they might be referencing the school simulator at Big MT, but the idea of a group of kids surviving that death trap seems unlikely at best. I thought it might be a reference to the Cathedral. ClearAirTurbulence fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 01:25
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double post
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Jul 24, 2012 01:27
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Regarding the loveable Benny: Even though this guy has tried killing me twice already, I don't want to sully my karma by killing him when tied up in Caesar's camp. If I give him a stealth boy and a bobby pin, will he be gone for good after he escapes? I feel like he's going to try another backstabbing.
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Jul 24, 2012 01:40
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Avocados posted:Regarding the loveable Benny: Even though this guy has tried killing me twice already, I don't want to sully my karma by killing him when tied up in Caesar's camp. If I give him a stealth boy and a bobby pin, will he be gone for good after he escapes? I feel like he's going to try another backstabbing. Actually you never see him again if you give him a way out. Originally they wanted a random encounter with Benny where he threatens you and attempts to kill you. It's unimplemented, but some mods bring it back.
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Jul 24, 2012 01:43
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Is everything and their grandmother supposed to give you 50 xp when you kill them? This is my first (of several) playthroughs where I've noticed this phenomena. Level 12 right now, in the last 2 hours of playtime I've killed: Fire gecko - 50xp, baby fire gecko - 50xp, deathclaws, legion assassins, mirelurks, all giving me 50xp at a time. The only major game changing mod I have right now is jsawyer. It's fine if thats the way it's supposed to be but one shotting a baby fire gecko and getting the same amount as killing a blind deathclaw (or an adult fire gecko) seems odd to me.
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Jul 24, 2012 02:19
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Leinadi posted:I have a much harder time buying the Lonesome Road backstory though. I like the idea of it but it is not believable at all that the Courier would not remember the Divide. They try to play it off like "oh, it was just another location you went through as a Courier" but I don't buy that at all. If you had a job as a Courier and travelled that far and wide, you would loving remember towns. Especially in a dangerous wasteland where the towns would feel even more important as "watering-holes". It's not like traveling today. My personal theory for Lonesome Road: The Courier never went to the Divide until the events of LR. Ever. Ulysses is completely mistaken/off his rocker.
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Jul 24, 2012 02:23
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