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God drat
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Jul 19, 2012 18:41
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:28 |
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Wow, Day 12 was pretty excellent. Harumafuji is just throwing everyone around. My favorite win of the day probably came from Aminishiki's edge of the ring throw. Edit: But there were plenty of good matches today.
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Jul 19, 2012 22:38
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This thread makes me happy, I used to watch a ton of sumo back when Akebono was around, but then sort of forgot it existed. This has rekindled my interest.
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Jul 19, 2012 22:44
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Scipiotik posted:This thread makes me happy, I used to watch a ton of sumo back when Akebono was around, but then sort of forgot it existed. This has rekindled my interest. You should check out Araibira's youtube channel. He uploaded these TV programs of archived sumo matches. Starts in like 1936 and goes to fairly recently. I'm trying to make my way through them but I've only watched a couple of them. Anyway if you want to relive some memories, there's a couple episodes on 90s sumo. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC45B282804264895&feature=plcp
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Jul 19, 2012 23:15
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Day 13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBg8Vkxalzw Comments for you to not read until after you watch: The last match certainly looked epic, but look again. I have to agree with what the announcers said afterwards: there really wasn't any point where Hakuho was actually in danger of losing. It was long, but it wasn't a close match at all.
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Jul 20, 2012 15:01
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Why indeed. Even before this tournament, I always felt the most frustrating aspect of Aran's henkas was that he's good enough that he doesn't need to rely on that. Tomorrow: Harumafuji vs. Kotooshu and Hakuho vs. Kisenosato (full list)
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Jul 20, 2012 15:29
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gently caress henkas. Goddamnit what a poo poo way to win. Also, agreed on the final match. It may have looked good to the crowd, but I never saw much in it aside from Baruto obviously panicking since he couldn't find leverage anywhere he turned and Hakuho just had to wait for him to try something desperate, which he did. But goddamn Harumafuji is on fire. I honestly expect him to take the cup. I just can't see him losing with his current momentum and form. But, I've said that about Baruto before and well, history speaks for itself.
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Jul 20, 2012 15:41
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Just Winging It posted:Realistically speaking, with the level of sumo he's displaying Harumafuji is the only ozeki that has a shot to make it to yokozuna. I don't think his age is the biggest hurdle that's going to keep him from getting there though, I just really doubt whether or not he'll be able to win two basho's in a row as long as Hakuho is around. Having said that, with his current form, this basho presents a golden opportunity to get at least that first win and if he has any serious ambitions towards promotion he really should seize it. He might not get 2 in a row, but he can absolutely take another route that has been taken before... in a span of 3 tournaments, win 1 and be runner up in the other 2. Seems to be a caveat with none of those falling below 12 wins either. If he wins this one, he should ignore Hakuho and focus on winning the other 14 matches in the next two tournaments. Course, he went 8-7 last tournament, so he could easily choke again. Seriously, Aran has been winning with great technique. That was horseshit and I'm glad it blew up in his face. I really don't get why henka are so frequent in sumo considering how staunch the Japanese are about honor and saving face. Taka put on a hell of a show lately, but he looked like he gave up on that last one. Just went straight into a shoving match, where he has no chance. Really?
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Jul 20, 2012 15:42
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Fryhtaning posted:Seriously, Aran has been winning with great technique. That was horseshit and I'm glad it blew up in his face. I really don't get why henka are so frequent in sumo considering how staunch the Japanese are about honor and saving face. I'm hoping my current plans comes good and I get to meet with and possibly eat and drink with a couple makuuchi wrestlers during the January basho. If so, I drat sure plan on asking about it because I certainly despise their existence and it boggles my mind why it is tolerated in modern sumo. Also, I am quickly becoming a fan of Shouhouzan.
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Jul 20, 2012 15:47
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Pvt. Public posted:I'm hoping my current plans comes good and I get to meet with and possibly eat and drink with a couple makuuchi wrestlers during the January basho. If so, I drat sure plan on asking about it because I certainly despise their existence and it boggles my mind why it is tolerated in modern sumo. You might get killed for even implying that they're doing something dishonorable. Godspeed.
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Jul 20, 2012 16:23
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Fryhtaning posted:You might get killed for even implying that they're doing something dishonorable. Godspeed. Oh there's no way I'd be dumb enough to imply to any of their faces that they do it and it is wrong. It'll be more of a "Why do you think this is tolerated?" sort of conversation. I've tread these waters before, I'm sure I'll manage to keep myself in one piece.
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Jul 20, 2012 17:14
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Pvt. Public posted:Oh there's no way I'd be dumb enough to imply to any of their faces that they do it and it is wrong. It'll be more of a "Why do you think this is tolerated?" sort of conversation. I've tread these waters before, I'm sure I'll manage to keep myself in one piece. Tell them you think you can beat any one of them if you use henka and they don't. Have someone film this.
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Jul 20, 2012 19:47
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Henkas are awesome, they're an important part of the sport and people who don't like them are misguided, in my opinion. It reminds me of people who think zone defense in basketball is "cowardly". I mean, more than half of Takanoyama's wins are probably by henka.
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Jul 20, 2012 19:56
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Fryhtaning posted:He might not get 2 in a row, but he can absolutely take another route that has been taken before... in a span of 3 tournaments, win 1 and be runner up in the other 2. Seems to be a caveat with none of those falling below 12 wins either. If he wins this one, he should ignore Hakuho and focus on winning the other 14 matches in the next two tournaments. Course, he went 8-7 last tournament, so he could easily choke again. I was under the misapprehension that winning two in a row was a hard and fast rule, apparently only a guideline. It still seems the only surefire way of actually getting promoted to me, as Takanohana in '93 and Konishiki in '92 met those criteria and didn't get promoted. Onokuni in '87 seems to be the last one to be promoted without winning two in a row. Just Winging It fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jul 20, 2012 |
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Jul 20, 2012 22:06
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Just Winging It posted:I was under the misapprehension that winning two in a row was a hard and fast rule, apparently only a guideline. It still seems the only surefire way of actually getting promoted to me, as Takanohana in '93 and Konishiki in '92 met those criteria and didn't get promoted. Onokuni in '87 seems to be the last one to be promoted without winning two in a row. Maybe if it's sandwiched... I'm not sure, really... obviously it comes down to a vote by the council, but it's at least established that the minimum is a yusho and two jun-yusho over 3 tournaments.
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Jul 21, 2012 00:55
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Day 14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWUSJTLknU I'll agree with Kintamayama that today was just weird.
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Jul 21, 2012 12:10
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As far as Hakuho v Kisenosato is concerned, what is up with Hakuho. Has he switched to whatever training methods Asashoryu was using, because this reminds me of him, although not in a good way. On a similar note, what's gotten into Aran. If you're at 9 wins already, you shouldn't be this insecure in the ring and just rely on the sumo that's gotten you to that position already. At least Kyokutenho won and got rid of that unsightly 0.
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Jul 21, 2012 14:17
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Just Winging It posted:As far as Hakuho v Kisenosato is concerned, what is up with Hakuho. Has he switched to whatever training methods Asashoryu was using, because this reminds me of him, although not in a good way.
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Jul 21, 2012 15:38
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evilwaldo posted:There must have been something going on behind the scenes with Hakuho and Kisenosato. Hakuho was clearly pissed at the two early jumps and then decided to clown him. That's what it looked like to me. Hakuho normally has a smugly satisfied look on his face after winning, but today he was practically gloating.
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Jul 21, 2012 15:46
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seorin posted:That's what it looked like to me. Hakuho normally has a smugly satisfied look on his face after winning, but today he was practically gloating. That might have been the biggest gently caress you in recent sumo history. Then again Kisenosato blatantly jumped the gun twice with Hakuhou's arm above his knee so he kind of deserved it.
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Jul 21, 2012 20:45
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If Hakuho wins tomorrow he will, in addition to the title, have won more yuusho than Takanohana (last of the great Japanese yokozuna and current Chairman of the association), more total makuuchi bouts than his old rival Asashoryu, and more 15-0 titles than anyone in sumo history. It's going to be so strange when he finally retires; it's been so long since sumo's been without a yokozuna who just dominates everything.
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Jul 21, 2012 22:26
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ahhhhhhhh it's going to suck not having kintamayama's video tomorrow  i know the individual matches will be up but i like to watch them all together. i'm so excited for harumafuji and hakuho's match, hopefully he doesn't pull the same poo poo he did with kisenosato today.
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Jul 22, 2012 00:40
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a false posted:ahhhhhhhh it's going to suck not having kintamayama's video tomorrow
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Jul 22, 2012 01:36
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what time is it EST? also what is the link for it
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Jul 22, 2012 02:21
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http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/hon_basho/torikumi/eizo_haishin/eizo2.html They start early on the last day, so makuuchi will run from roughly 2:30am to 4:30am Eastern, but that should be EDT not EST, so if you're on EST adjust accordingly. If you want to do the calculation yourself in case I'm wrong, the final match will probably be 5:20 or so Japan time (in Seattle time, which is the US time I keep track of, that's 1:20am). Edit: This is a good time to mention that the link in the OP doesn't work for me for some reason, but the link above does. It might be because I'm accessing from within Japan, or maybe the link just needs to be fixed.
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Jul 22, 2012 02:31
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This basho wasn't quite as crazy and dramatic as the last one, but it was still very satisfying. It was also the last basho I'll be able to watch from Japan, so as of next time I'll be watching the stream recordings on youtube like the rest of you. Since the compilation video is incredibly delayed, I'll just post the match we've all been waiting for anyway: Edit: vv Thanks for noticing! I've removed the video of the final match so it's less tempting to watch out of order. 
seorin fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 22, 2012 |
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Jul 22, 2012 11:19
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Kintamayama managed to get his video out before getting on the boat, looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-7Rfwx13Zs
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Jul 22, 2012 12:11
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Hakuho v Harumafuji, with the full pre-match rituals and such included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8dpUoC8KwM. It's interesting to watch as it goes to show how much more happens before the match even takes place. The pre-match rituals, the parading of the sponsor's banners, getting down for the tachi-ai, getting up again, throwing some more salt, getting down, glare a bit, getting up again to towel their face, until they finally start the match. Five and a half minutes before they actually start the match that's over in a fraction of that. The award ceremony and interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZnOxS4njgw, which just shows how appropriately large the actual cups are when compared to the people who win them. Also, seeing how the prefecture governor almost buckled under the weight of the PM's cup while the winner just handled it like weighed nothing remains funny. I couldn't quite make out everything said in the post-match interview, other than that he was happy he won, and when asked whether he'd try to make yokozuna next tournament, he said he was going to make his best effort, which isn't very surprising to hear at least. Just Winging It fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jul 22, 2012 |
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Jul 22, 2012 15:26
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Well deserved victory for Harumafuji. Guy was on fire the whole tournament.
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Jul 22, 2012 16:23
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frankenfreak posted:Well deserved victory for Harumafuji. Guy was on fire the whole tournament.
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Jul 22, 2012 19:46
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drat Harumafuji has a pretty thick accent, I can only make out about 70% of his words.
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Jul 23, 2012 16:33
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uinfuirudo posted:drat Harumafuji has a pretty thick accent, I can only make out about 70% of his words. A bit off topic but how long it take for you to get the language down? Also, I thought that was a great final match. I'm really gonna pull for Harumafuji in September.
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Jul 23, 2012 19:22
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Funkysauce posted:A bit off topic but how long it take for you to get the language down? Same, just because I need to bust this first Yokozuna nut. Hakuho could dominate another 5 years if Harumafuji can't close the deal.
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Jul 24, 2012 01:01
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well, since asashoryu made yokozuna, harumafuji has the most yusho of anyone other than him and hakuho. so i guess at least by that metric there's good reason to believe he's capable of doing it (moreso than the other ozeki at least).
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Jul 24, 2012 01:26
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Oh, someone before asked about henka. I think it's really weird, actually, how henka is looked down on in sumo... because we have similar moves in kendo that are actually admired because they're very difficult to pull off well.
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Jul 24, 2012 01:30
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tarepanda posted:Oh, someone before asked about henka. I think it's really weird, actually, how henka is looked down on in sumo... because we have similar moves in kendo that are actually admired because they're very difficult to pull off well. I get it, somewhat. You're giving up your forward momentum to punish what you believe will be a hard-charging opponent. It's like throwing a changeup in baseball, an equalizer to keep your opponents from getting overzealous and sitting on your fastball. The difference is that 90%+ of sumo matches have a classic tachi-ai, so if you often look for a henka, you're going to get steamrolled most of the time. So then you yourself become an easy henka target because looking for a henka puts you at a disadvantage. I think Hakuho's henka was actually an example of one done right. Kisenosato kept false starting so it was obvious to the world that he was going to blindly charge at the tachi-ai. But cheap henkas just to get a cheap win... I agree that they are not good for the game.
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Jul 24, 2012 13:30
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Fryhtaning posted:I think Hakuho's henka was actually an example of one done right. Kisenosato kept false starting so it was obvious to the world that he was going to blindly charge at the tachi-ai. Now that you mention it, I almost wonder if that was Hakuho's plan from the beginning, and that's why he shoved Kisenosato after the first false start: to really rile him up and make it certain.
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Jul 24, 2012 14:28
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Fryhtaning posted:I get it, somewhat. You're giving up your forward momentum to punish what you believe will be a hard-charging opponent. It's like throwing a changeup in baseball, an equalizer to keep your opponents from getting overzealous and sitting on your fastball. How do you define "cheap"? That's kind of ridiculous, to me. If a wrestler gets caught by a henka, it's their fault -- there's a reason it often doesn't work on the more elite wrestlers. What would really be "not good for the game" is if there were no henkas at all, since it would strip a layer of nuance and technique away from sumo. Again, I don't understand how the thread can simultaneously love Takanoyama and dislike henkas, since most of the time henkas are the only way he can compete.
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Jul 24, 2012 14:31
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Mechafunkzilla posted:How do you define "cheap"? That's kind of ridiculous, to me. If a wrestler gets caught by a henka, it's their fault -- there's a reason it often doesn't work on the more elite wrestlers. What would really be "not good for the game" is if there were no henkas at all, since it would strip a layer of nuance and technique away from sumo. Takanoyama is pretty clearly an exception, because if you expect him to charge you head on you're an idiot. I dunno, it's not an easy argument to firmly stand on either side of. Aran is not a hard charger and he does it often enough that it's your own fault if you fall for it. Hakuho did it perfectly to stuff someone who was tipping his hand for the whole world to see right from the start. Kisenosato is incredibly balanced and it was still obvious he was going in with a head of steam. That's all good henka, I would argue. I think where the valid criticism comes is where it becomes, to use another baseball analogy, a beanball war like it did last tournament or the one before.. where someone got henka'd and then returned the favor to someone else. I can't remember the details exactly, but I know Harumafuji was involved and possibly another Ozeki. Also doing it to eke out your kachi-koshi because you're playing like poo poo.
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Jul 24, 2012 15:09
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Winning sumo matches by henka is like winning auto races by fuel mileage, it might be valid but I don't want to watch it.
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Jul 25, 2012 00:21
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