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Hietala posted:Unless she's actually the irregular, and not Baam. When she arrived on Haedon's floor he told her that she wasn't the one he was waiting for, and Androssi had a strange feeling about her and decided to avoid fighting her on F2. I thought they were both irregulars. Rachel through dumb luck by unknowingly taking a door meant for Baam. and Baam by force entering the tower via is own will. Also we really don't know how crazy Rachel is to start with. When ever we've seen her in a Dark room she goes creepy as gently caress. http://www.mangareader.net/tower-of-god/77/30 this seance plus laughing madly in the dark means this chick has issues with the night. Also Haedon and the first floor administrator basically used Rachel as a tool to get at Baam. Causing his evident death and subsequent training via Fug, Who knows how far the puppet strings run. 
zerosix fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Aug 1, 2012 |
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Aug 1, 2012 09:06
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zerosix posted:I thought they were both irregulars. Rachel through dumb luck by unknowingly taking a door meant for Baam. and Baam by force entering the tower via is own will. Argh, it's too hard to guess, because I still think Baam could also be Prince Zahard because of the emblem in the place where he was living, and Lero-Ro suggests that "a person from a powerfull family" may be able to manipulate shinsoo without restriction.
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Aug 1, 2012 09:19
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Hietala posted:Argh, it's too hard to guess, because I still think Baam could also be Prince Zahard because of the emblem in the place where he was living, and Lero-Ro suggests that "a person from a powerfull family" may be able to manipulate shinsoo without restriction. Its a good possibility that he is a prince of Zahard. But it feels like it would be played as a fake out to lead to a greater reveal. who knows, again TOG is almost impossible to second guess.
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Aug 1, 2012 09:58
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There are so many possibilities for Baam. He could be Prince Zahard, Phantominium, an artificial human made from shinsoo ect.
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Aug 1, 2012 10:59
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Hietala posted:Argh, it's too hard to guess, because I still think Baam could also be Prince Zahard because of the emblem in the place where he was living, and Lero-Ro suggests that "a person from a powerfull family" may be able to manipulate shinsoo without restriction. Lero also went to ask Mr. Coffee about it and found out that irregulars had that ability as well though.
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Aug 1, 2012 12:20
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Hietala posted:Unless she's actually the irregular, and not Baam. When she arrived on Haedon's floor he told her that she wasn't the one he was waiting for, and Androssi had a strange feeling about her and decided to avoid fighting her on F2. Rachel's an irregular, but doesn't seem particularly powerful. An irregular is just someone who's entered the tower uninvited. To do this you need to be strong as gently caress, usually. But Rachel piggybacked on Baam's entry. He (I think) opened the way by his sheer power, but actually has an invitation, so technically he's just an exceptionally powerful regular. On that note, were Zahard and the family heads irregulars? They have the power of irregulars, but considering they seem the be sanctioned by the guardians they were probably invited. Like Baam.
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Aug 1, 2012 17:08
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Slime posted:Rachel's an irregular, but doesn't seem particularly powerful. An irregular is just someone who's entered the tower uninvited. To do this you need to be strong as gently caress, usually. But Rachel piggybacked on Baam's entry. He (I think) opened the way by his sheer power, but actually has an invitation, so technically he's just an exceptionally powerful regular. They were technically Irregulars.
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Aug 1, 2012 17:19
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Slime posted:Rachel's an irregular, but doesn't seem particularly powerful. An irregular is just someone who's entered the tower uninvited. To do this you need to be strong as gently caress, usually. But Rachel piggybacked on Baam's entry. He (I think) opened the way by his sheer power, but actually has an invitation, so technically he's just an exceptionally powerful regular. Rachel did get one of the best seeds for light bearer. She definitely has more skill that she's letting on.
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Aug 1, 2012 20:34
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There's also the possibility that Headon just lied to Rachel and Baam and there aren't any irregulars. Nobody ever stated the Guardians have to tell the truth.
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Aug 1, 2012 20:51
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Slime posted:Rachel's an irregular, but doesn't seem particularly powerful. An irregular is just someone who's entered the tower uninvited. To do this you need to be strong as gently caress, usually. But Rachel piggybacked on Baam's entry. He (I think) opened the way by his sheer power, but actually has an invitation, so technically he's just an exceptionally powerful regular. How can you say Baam is a regular? He asked the guardian of a floor to do the challenge thing to get Rachel to the next floor. It was stated that only Irregulars can do this. Our favorite rabbit may have been waiting for Baam, but he didn't invite Baam in, he just knew poo poo was going to go down because he is ridiculous.
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Aug 1, 2012 20:55
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In short: There's just way too much unanswered poo poo, and SIU should put out a full quality chapter every day 
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Aug 1, 2012 22:32
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As I understand it: - Regulars are chosen by Headon from amoung inhabitants of the Tower, as per contract with Zahard. (People live in the middle and outer Tower, but climbing the Tower occurs in the inner area). - Irregulars are chosen from the world outside the Tower by the Tower itself. This seems to require having the strength to open the door to the Tower. - When someone opens the door to the Tower, others can join them for the ride. This seems to be the case with Rachel (although Headon could be lying to manipulate her), and with the other family heads who accompanied Zahard when he entered the Tower.
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Aug 1, 2012 22:50
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So is the area Baam lived in outside the tower? If so, that means that Rachel found a way to get out of the tower, and to her dumb luck it was underground where she couldn't see the stars. Isn't Wingtree trying to find a way out of the tower?
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Aug 1, 2012 23:44
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I think it might be possible to be an irregular from inside the tower. You'd just have to not get chosen and open the door yourself instead.
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Aug 1, 2012 23:50
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^^^ Rachel isn't from inside the Tower any more than Baam is. She knew about the Tower as a fairy tale. Cbouncerrun posted:I think it might be possible to be an irregular from inside the tower. You'd just have to not get chosen and open the door yourself instead. Thst dorsn't make a lot of sense. The door an irregular has to be strong enough to open is the one that lets you enter from outside the Tower.
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Aug 2, 2012 02:40
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Pretty sure it's not a literal door. The one Baam went through just appeared on the ground afterall.
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Aug 2, 2012 03:48
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Hodgepodge posted:^^^ Rachel isn't from inside the Tower any more than Baam is. She knew about the Tower as a fairy tale. Right, she knew about the Inner Tower, with the Guardians - it doesn't necessarily say anything about whether she was from the residential outer tower or from outside of the tower. Her goal suggests that she's from the residential tower; she wants to see the stars but could have easily done so if she'd lived outside of the tower. It's only because the stars she's seen all her life are fake that she desires to see the real ones. Which then also implies that Baam was imprisoned somewhere inside of the greater tower complex himself - probably directly underneath the inner tower. Rachel then discovered him while looking for a way into the inner tower. Anyway, we don't know anything about having to be 'strong' to open the door to the inner tower. We only know once you're in the tower you can't get out. Why can they push it open before they've climbed and grown stronger, but not pull it open when they make it to the top? Besides which we've seen Baam open the door and there was no 'strength' involved. It's more likely that the Tower itself chooses who gets to come in. We also don't know enough about the 'door' to know if it's accessible from only within the greater tower, from the outside, or even both. If I remember correctly, the 'door' appeared to be on the floor when Baam opened it.
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Aug 2, 2012 03:53
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It doesn't seem likely to me that Rachel got into the tower with Baam's power. Baam clearly wanted to stop her from climbing the tower so I don't think it was any ability of his that opened the door for her. So either Rachel opened the door with her own strength or someone else opened it for her for some unknown reason. I don't think we should be so quick to call Rachel weak, she is also an irregular and every known irregular has been monumentally powerful.
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Aug 2, 2012 06:45
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Lieutenant Hoffman posted:It doesn't seem likely to me that Rachel got into the tower with Baam's power. Baam clearly wanted to stop her from climbing the tower so I don't think it was any ability of his that opened the door for her. So either Rachel opened the door with her own strength or someone else opened it for her for some unknown reason. I don't think we should be so quick to call Rachel weak, she is also an irregular and every known irregular has been monumentally powerful. I think the tower was letting Baam in, but Rachel was standing on the door at that time. Also, no where has it said that all irregulars are powerful, just that some of them are so powerful that it gives all irregulars that reputation. I mean, not all irregulars even pass Headon's test. In fact Headon is probably the reason that irregulars that make it through the tower are so powerful, because you have to be a monster just to pass his test. Almost every test after that was easier until they got to the giant team test, the only reason Baam passed was because he breathes that magic stuff(I don't remember what it's called) and because the sword thought he was cute. In fact, my favourite part of the first arc, was that Baam succeeded because of luck, which allowed more focus on how awesome side characters are(Koon and Mangator)
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Aug 2, 2012 09:11
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Sarcophallus posted:Right, she knew about the Inner Tower, with the Guardians - it doesn't necessarily say anything about whether she was from the residential outer tower or from outside of the tower. Her goal suggests that she's from the residential tower; she wants to see the stars but could have easily done so if she'd lived outside of the tower. It's only because the stars she's seen all her life are fake that she desires to see the real ones. Which then also implies that Baam was imprisoned somewhere inside of the greater tower complex himself - probably directly underneath the inner tower. Rachel then discovered him while looking for a way into the inner tower. This kind of rests on the assumption that the stars are visible everywhere outside of the Tower, and therefore anywhere without stars must be the Tower. That is an unfounded assumption, and holding it means trying to redefine terms like "irregular" to fit the your preconception, rather than reading the story being presented. Rachel is show to have a very different view of the Tower than that demonstrated by its residents. She thinks that a guardian is a "fairy" who guides "children" as they climb the Tower. Actual residents are shown as being deeply familiar with guardians and the Ranker system because they form the government that rules their lives. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 12:35
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Seems like one of the early chapters confirms Rachel is an irregular as well: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/24/tower-of-god_v1_ch14_by_the-company
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Aug 2, 2012 17:46
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Apocron posted:Seems like one of the early chapters confirms Rachel is an irregular as well I was wondering about that too. Now the next question is how did FUG and whoever else know Baam/Rachel were going to enter the tower, to be able to set up such elaborate schemes.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:00
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Hodgepodge posted:This kind of rests on the assumption that the stars are visible everywhere outside of the Tower, and therefore anywhere without stars must be the Tower. That is an unfounded assumption, and holding it means trying to redefine terms like "irregular" to fit the your preconception, rather than reading the story being presented. Clearly the 'Star' [There's only one!] is visible from the outside or no one would have built a tower to try to reach it. Granted this is folklore and unverifiable. [That's neat though, I never realized there was only 1 star in the first place; now Rachel's "Star-nim" makes more sense.] An "Irregular" is simply someone who wasn't chosen by Headon. That's it. It says nothing about where they came from, how strong they are, or who their mother was; it explicitly describes that they weren't chosen by Headon but are climbing the tower anyway. Hodgepodge posted:Rachel is show to have a very different view of the Tower than that demonstrated by its residents. She thinks that a guardian is a "fairy" who guides "children" as they climb the Tower. Actual residents are shown as being deeply familiar with guardians and the Ranker system because they form the government that rules their lives. That's not a fair argument because literally no one else has talked about their 'view' of the tower in that way before. What's more telling, in my opinion, is that people outside of the tower have no possible way of coming up with accurate 'folklore' about it. They could not possibly know about the guardians or ranker because no one has ever left the tower to talk about it.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:22
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Well Headon and even the princess knew about the irregular coming in. My theory is that Headon wants the best tower, and the king is promoting stagnation. So Headon is probably pulling a lot of the strings helping Baam and FUG because they will get rid of the King and change the tower, so it's at least different and more susceptible to change.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:22
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Since Rachel didn't know much about the tower when she first entered, she's likely from outside the tower, since the people who live inside the tower are familiar with all that stuff. And outside the tower does definitely exist, since that's where Zahard and the 10 family heads originally came from.
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Aug 2, 2012 19:39
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Sarcophallus posted:That's not a fair argument because literally no one else has talked about their 'view' of the tower in that way before. What's more telling, in my opinion, is that people outside of the tower have no possible way of coming up with accurate 'folklore' about it. They could not possibly know about the guardians or ranker because no one has ever left the tower to talk about it. Baam and Rachel's general ignorance about the rules of the Tower is contrasted with the general understanding shown by newly selected Regulars in the first few 2nd Floor tests. (Another contrast between Regulars and Irregulars is that the former begin in the 2nd Floor, rather than the 1st).
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Aug 2, 2012 20:12
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Normally, the tower admins loving hate irregulars. However, if an irregular with no special skills who could be easily manipulated appeared, I don't think they would really care. Remember, they tried getting rid of Anak, too. Origin is secondary to how much a threat someone is to the status quo.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:22
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Serious Frolicking posted:Normally, the tower admins loving hate irregulars. However, if an irregular with no special skills who could be easily manipulated appeared, I don't think they would really care. There's also the fact that we don't know who the conspiring admins are siding with. As in, it is those loyal to Zahard/his administration that follow the edict of removing those dangerous to the tower. If they, however, side with someone else, such as the leader of FUG, they wouldn't care about any potential danger an irregular could cause to the tower, unless it messed with their plans.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:28
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Is Baam really an irregular since it seems that he was expected/chosen? http://www.batoto.net/read/_/65492/tower-of-god_v1_ch76_by_the-company
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Aug 2, 2012 20:34
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Even if Baam somehow isn't an irregular in the usual sense, he is most certainly unusual and dangerous.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:36
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Apocron posted:Is Baam really an irregular since it seems that he was expected/chosen? http://www.batoto.net/read/_/65492/tower-of-god_v1_ch76_by_the-company Either he's a special irregular, or irregulars are those chosen by the tower itself rather than Headon.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:38
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Cbouncerrun posted:Either he's a special irregular, or irregulars are those chosen by the tower itself rather than Headon. I kind of get the feeling that it's the second one, based on the fact that only irregulars can take tests directly from the floor's guardians. Regulars can only progress by the things set up by Zahard and his companions.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:43
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Cbouncerrun posted:Either he's a special irregular, or irregulars are those chosen by the tower itself rather than Headon. Shugojin posted:I kind of get the feeling that it's the second one, based on the fact that only irregulars can take tests directly from the floor's guardians. Regulars can only progress by the things set up by Zahard and his companions. There's a lot we don't know. It might be that no one is supposed to be chosen, and that the whole Headon choosing regulars is something set up by the Zahard administration and not a natural tower thing. Baam (or someone, since it's not specifically said that Baam is the chosen; and since SIU likes twists, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the setup for one) is special by being a person chosen by the tower, rather than being chosen as a regular, or just being a normal irregular (that is, that Baam is an irregular whom the tower then chose, for some reason. tl;dr talking too much about a comic
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Aug 2, 2012 20:49
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Hodgepodge posted:Baam and Rachel's general ignorance about the rules of the Tower is contrasted with the general understanding shown by newly selected Regulars in the first few 2nd Floor tests. Rachel seems to know as much as anyone else - that there are "guardians" and that people are "chosen" to climb. The thing is that being chosen in the first place is a symbol of incredible prestige. In this sense the "Great Families" have a certain eminence because being a part of them practically guarantees your being chosen while the rest of the chosen aren't too badly off themselves. Rachel, to account for her marginally different 'view' of the tower, might be the pauper that's been invited to the King's court, if you will. So it would make sense that her interpretation of the Tower is a lot more 'folky'. For the latter, you could easily enough interpret "being chosen" by Headon as the first floor test. Not that you'd have to. I don't think anyone is saying that Rachel was chosen. The debate is whether she originated from the Tower or not. Genocyber posted:There's a lot we don't know. It might be that no one is supposed to be chosen, and that the whole Headon choosing regulars is something set up by the Zahard administration and not a natural tower thing. Baam (or someone, since it's not specifically said that Baam is the chosen; and since SIU likes twists, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the setup for one) is special by being a person chosen by the tower, rather than being chosen as a regular, or just being a normal irregular (that is, that Baam is an irregular whom the tower then chose, for some reason. The bolded section is 100% correct. There was no such thing as Regular or Irregular before Zahard took over and made pacts with guardians. This has come up on blog posts and is on the wiki as well, I believe - where it should hopefully be cited to some blog translation on batoto or some other forum. e: V No one knows where Baam came from. It's easier to figure out where Rachel came from and extend it to Baam than vice versa; hence these past posts. Sarcophallus fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 20:52
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If Baam came from outside the tower, then obviously Rachel did as well.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:54
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Serious Frolicking posted:If Baam came from outside the tower, then obviously Rachel did as well. Thing is, what exactly to people mean by outside the tower? Because there's the main tower which people climb to become rankers, there's the outer tower, where people live, and then there's outside the tower proper. And I believe there were people already living in the outer tower before Zahard arrived. Also there was Zahard's symbol in the cave Baam lived in. It's quite possible that Zahard was a prominent figure outside the tower before he climbed, so that doesn't really throw out the idea of Baam coming from outside the tower completely.
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Aug 2, 2012 21:07
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Slime posted:Thing is, what exactly to people mean by outside the tower? Because there's the main tower which people climb to become rankers, there's the outer tower, where people live, and then there's outside the tower proper. And I believe there were people already living in the outer tower before Zahard arrived. Given how vast the tower is (each floor of the residence tower, where people live, is the size of America if I recall), it's probably in its own dimension. So outside the tower would be from another dimension. What I'm saying, is, Rachel is  .
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Aug 2, 2012 22:17
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Yeah, I can't imagine seeing something that huge from outside. Could be in space though, with everyone outside the tower in some sort of sci-fi setting. Honestly I don't think we're ever going to see outside the tower anyway, probably just a bunch of vague comments from other irregulars about what it's like.
RatHat fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 23:09
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While rachel knew something about the tower, it was twisted in mythology. Guardian = fairy, etc. Also she did appear to be more ignorant than average on the rules.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:54
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Cbouncerrun posted:Yeah, I can't imagine seeing something that huge from outside. Could be in space though, with everyone outside the tower in some sort of sci-fi setting. Honestly I don't think we're ever going to see outside the tower anyway, probably just a bunch of vague comments from other irregulars about what it's like. 
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