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Splizwarf posted:Parts in those applications (like bearings) will still wear at startup due to cold oil's higher viscosity and the time it takes the oil pump to build pressure, it's why we use multi-weight oils and even that's not a perfect solution. Oil does not negate wear, it only reduces it; in some cases to to practically nothing, but everything wears at least a bit. However when kept running those fluid bearings can have incredibly low wear rates in many applications if the oil is kept in good condition. Essentially they only wear from the shear forces of the oil right at the surface of the bearing faces. Of course if you get any contamination in them then things can go bad in a hurry:  A massive Kingsbury thrust bearing supporting 220 tons in a hydroelectic plant has been in nearly constant operation since 1912. As far as can be guessed from the times they took things apart to check it out the bearing has at minimum an expected service lifetime of well over 1000 years, although knowing for sure is practically impossible because the thing looked nearly brand new every time, even after 57 years in operation. Here's an article on it from the ASME. Somewhat of the opposite of a horrible mechanical failure. I love stories of the serendipitous way some designs turn out to be orders of magnitude better than the designers ever could have hoped. While poking around I also found this example of when a Porche 928 S4 crankshaft and block love each other very much and decide to get together despite the objections of the thrust bearings: 
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Aug 6, 2012 17:16
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CommieGIR posted:Doesn't surprise me, I know some people who will take 2.5l Audi Turbodiesel blocks and use them for petrol racers. I remember reading that the 80's GM Diesel small blocks are coveted among the drag crowd. As a Diesel they were tragically bad, but overbuilt and well suited to racing duty.
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Aug 6, 2012 20:24
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Shifty Pony posted:However when kept running those fluid bearings can have incredibly low wear rates in many applications if the oil is kept in good condition. Essentially they only wear from the shear forces of the oil right at the surface of the bearing faces. Oh yeah, I totally agree with this. If we could run them continuously, car engines would be a lot happier.
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Aug 6, 2012 20:36
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Nathan Explosion posted:I remember reading that the 80's GM Diesel small blocks are coveted among the drag crowd. As a Diesel they were tragically bad, but overbuilt and well suited to racing duty. Ironically, it wasn't the engine that was tragically bad, it was the failure to design in features that kept the engine healthy For instance: GM failed to add a fuel/water seperator, resulting in the fuel lines rusting out, failed to instruct dealers how to properly take care of the motor, and failed to have them put proper heavy weight oil in the engine. There are a lot of the GM diesels still running, I'd like to get my hands on one and turbocharge it and see what I could do with it.
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Aug 6, 2012 20:51
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Also head bolts with an incorrect tensile strength causing repeated blown head gaskets.
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Aug 6, 2012 21:13
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Panaflex posted:Also head bolts with an incorrect tensile strength causing repeated blown head gaskets. Yeah, they used gas engine headbolts, ARP briefly made a stud kit for the GM diesels to help alleviate the problem.
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Aug 6, 2012 21:18
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Paul Boz_ posted:drat, son. Where was this? Backroads of Shreveport, LA. Currently stationed in this poop hole of a state.
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Aug 6, 2012 23:17
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This is goddamn hilarious!
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Aug 6, 2012 23:45
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all I can think is IT'S NOT A TUMAH
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Aug 7, 2012 00:14
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Stanyer89 posted:Backroads of Shreveport, LA. Currently stationed in this poop hole of a state. At least you've got Ralph and Cackoo's or however it's spelled.
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Aug 7, 2012 02:06
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Stanyer89 posted:Backroads of Shreveport, LA. Currently stationed in this poop hole of a state. That shithole is practically southern Arkansas. You should drive down to Southeastern LA and I can show you a good time. We don't claim anything north of the boot toe.
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Aug 7, 2012 02:14
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CommieGIR posted:For instance: GM failed to add a fuel/water seperator, resulting in the fuel lines rusting out, failed to instruct dealers how to properly take care of the motor, and failed to have them put proper heavy weight oil in the engine. That's the thing. I had it in my head that the fuel injectors were weak or something. I distinctly remember a friend of my mom having a diesel caprice. The smell of it was memorable. I recall the red velour and the smell of fake air freshener cherries. Also, the lady bitching about what a heap of poo poo that car was.
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Aug 7, 2012 02:18
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Paul Boz_ posted:That shithole is practically southern Arkansas. You should drive down to Southeastern LA and I can show you a good time. We don't claim anything north of the boot toe. By good time do you mean more crater sized pot holes or hot girls and good beer?
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Aug 7, 2012 02:44
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Nathan Explosion posted:That's the thing. I had it in my head that the fuel injectors were weak or something. I distinctly remember a friend of my mom having a diesel caprice. The smell of it was memorable. I recall the red velour and the smell of fake air freshener cherries. Also, the lady bitching about what a heap of poo poo that car was. Pretty much the whole fuel system was a cascading failure. The water-fuel issue would cause rust particles which could clog the injectors, the injector timing would gradually get retarded due to the chain-driven high pressure pump, and the pressure regulation on the high pressure pump would start getting squirrely if you added alcohol treatments intended for gasoline engines to the fuel (something people were doing to tray and alleviate the water issue). That could cause pre-detonation and blown head gaskets. Finally unlike the gas version of the engine the heads were attached with single-use bolts so when the engine was disassembled it would often be reassembled using the same bolts. Then it was only a matter of time until it failed again.
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Aug 7, 2012 02:45
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That's a drat shame. A 350 ci Diesel should have been a force to be reckoned with. Instead, GM pretty much ruined the idea of America driving oil burners. Besides ze Germans the diesel is still dead here.
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Aug 7, 2012 03:03
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Nathan Explosion posted:That's a drat shame. A 350 ci Diesel should have been a force to be reckoned with. Instead, GM pretty much ruined the idea of America driving oil burners. Diesels are making a comeback, VW had set a 7 year goal to get on top of sales, and they met that goal this year, and their TDIs are selling like hot cakes. Chrysler has said they will offer a Turbodiesel Sedan in 2014 and Chevy in 2013 http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/automobiles/2013-diesel-cars-in-the-usa-heres-the-lineup.htm
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Aug 7, 2012 03:12
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I can't believe you just got me excited about a chrysler 300. I would so buy that (or the chevy cruze diesel)
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Aug 7, 2012 04:25
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Nathan Explosion posted:Besides ze Germans the diesel is still dead here.
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Aug 7, 2012 04:47
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It's not just memories from twenty years ago holding diesels back in America, it's also the stricter emissions regulations, and lower sulfur in the fuel I think.
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Aug 7, 2012 04:56
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EightBit posted:It's not just memories from twenty years ago holding diesels back in America, it's also the stricter emissions regulations, and lower sulfur in the fuel I think. Somewhat. California has been pushing their CARB II emissions stuff like a pedophile peddling candy to kids. Its a terrible system, that tests diesels like gas cars which plain doesn't work. Diesels are going to be the long term solution to emissions for dino-powered vehicles, the Blu-Tec diesels are considered very close to zero emissions vehicles. Most VW TDIs are also considered emissions exempt in most states. Diesel is on its way back, California just needs to stop peddling smack and pushing solutions that are still half-assed and not really full on solutions yet.
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Aug 7, 2012 05:02
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BlackMK4 posted:I cannot explain my love for the 335D in words. It's such a perfect car (other than the stock suspension and only automatic as an option). I'd even sacrifice the automatic if I could get it in a wagon. The M Sport package with all that torque is unreal.
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Aug 7, 2012 05:21
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Bovril Delight posted:I'd even sacrifice the automatic if I could get it in a wagon. The M Sport package with all that torque is unreal. I saw a BMW 335D in California, that thing made me smile...now if only I could buy one.
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Aug 7, 2012 05:27
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Stanyer89 posted:By good time do you mean more crater sized pot holes or hot girls and good beer? Knowing Paul Boz_, good beer and big holes. You should meet his mom.
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Aug 7, 2012 12:38
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CommieGIR posted:I saw a BMW 335D in California, that thing made me smile...now if only I could buy one. Go used or nothing, BMW discontinued the 335D in the US.
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Aug 7, 2012 14:14
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I think there are still some new ones sitting on dealer lots. They were chopping off almost 10k from MSRP when they were trying to move them. Still, the car is over 50k once you get a few options on it. Edit: Quick Autotrader search gives 59 new BMW 335d models available in the country.
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Aug 7, 2012 14:27
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EightBit posted:It's not just memories from twenty years ago holding diesels back in America, it's also the stricter emissions regulations, and lower sulfur in the fuel I think. Our fuel having way too much sulfur in it was one of the main reasons Euro diesels were not coming to the US. Now that ULS fuel is nationwide the engines will run fine. The real expensive bit is the NOx regulations in the US being roughly 10x more stringent which requires rather extensive emission controls, with California's regs being even more difficult to overcome. The new ULS fuel has been blamed for many mechanical failures in older diesels though, which relied on the sulfur's lubricating qualities. I'll believe the reports of GM and Chevy releasing diesels in the US when I see them in showrooms. There has been news about diesels in many new domestic cars "in two years!" for a decade at least. I even got mildly excited about news of the Liberty being equipped with one, until they noted it was a nearly $4k option, was a limited run because of upcoming emissions regs, and required an automatic. I'd love to see the Focus diesel come to the US.
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Aug 7, 2012 15:25
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Shifty Pony posted:The new ULS fuel has been blamed for many mechanical failures in older diesels though, which relied on the sulfur's lubricating qualities. I solved this by adding two stroke oil to my fuel.
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Aug 7, 2012 15:42
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CommieGIR posted:I solved this by adding two stroke oil to my fuel. My father has settled on running B5-B20 in his farm equipment. Fortunately he found a nearby supplier who sells off-road dyed bio blends. The only downside is that when you first run it in a 20 year old John Deere you better have a good supply of fuel filters handy because the biodiesel is a rather good solvent and will clean any gunk off the inside of the tank. A better solution is to just go ahead and replace the tank and fuel lines when you make the switch, but parts for those older engines can be quite pricey.
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Aug 7, 2012 16:49
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Shifty Pony posted:My father has settled on running B5-B20 in his farm equipment. Fortunately he found a nearby supplier who sells off-road dyed bio blends. The only downside is that when you first run it in a 20 year old John Deere you better have a good supply of fuel filters handy because the biodiesel is a rather good solvent and will clean any gunk off the inside of the tank. A better solution is to just go ahead and replace the tank and fuel lines when you make the switch, but parts for those older engines can be quite pricey. Been there done that, first time I ran my home made biodiesel I went through 4 filters before it started clearing.
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Aug 7, 2012 16:53
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CommieGIR posted:Doesn't surprise me, I know some people who will take 2.5l Audi Turbodiesel blocks and use them for petrol racers. Boat posted:I assume because you could then force-induction them to the moon? The reason people use the eurovan blocks is because of the increased displacement, the 2.5 blocks can be upped to 2.7 while the 2.2-2.3 are stuck around that displacement. The blocks are pretty much identical between the gas and diesel 2.5 I5s for that generation. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 7, 2012 |
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Aug 7, 2012 17:05
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Bovril Delight posted:I'd even sacrifice the automatic if I could get it in a wagon. The M Sport package with all that torque is unreal. I've put 35k miles on a white M Sport. God, this car. The stock suspension has issues though. In higher speed corners it weaves around and if you catch a pavement divider wrong, let alone a real bump, it's downright loving scary. 50k on this clutch/fw. My sister shouldn't have a manual.  
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Aug 7, 2012 20:22
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BlackMK4 posted:I've put 35k miles on a white M Sport. God, this car. The stock suspension has issues though. In higher speed corners it weaves around and if you catch a pavement divider wrong, let alone a real bump, it's downright loving scary. Tell her that the left pedal is not a foot rest 
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Aug 7, 2012 20:36
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e;f,b Looks like somebody needs the "clutch pedal is not the same as dead pedal" talk. 
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Aug 7, 2012 20:37
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Terrible Robot posted:e;f,b
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Aug 7, 2012 21:17
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Shifty Pony posted:Our fuel having way too much sulfur in it was one of the main reasons Euro diesels were not coming to the US. Now that ULS fuel is nationwide the engines will run fine. The real expensive bit is the NOx regulations in the US being roughly 10x more stringent which requires rather extensive emission controls, with California's regs being even more difficult to overcome. GM is already running a marketing campaign to "educate consumers" about the benefit of diesels.  So either they are actually going to start selling a diesel Chevy at some point, or GM just likes blowing your tax dollars on free advertising for VW. Bovril Delight posted:I think there are still some new ones sitting on dealer lots. They were chopping off almost 10k from MSRP when they were trying to move them. Still, the car is over 50k once you get a few options on it. So you've bought one then? Based on what I've read the reliability of those engines is....not great. It's a sequential twin turbo like an RX7, but quite a bit more complex because the two turbos are actually also compound - the exhaust and compressor sides of both turbos are connected to each other and depending on RPM sometimes the larger turbo is feeding air into the smaller turbo, and it's all controlled by valves and wastegates that sometimes fail.  The new M550d is the same except with 3 turbos. 
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 7, 2012 |
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Aug 7, 2012 21:24
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Half of US service stations? Where are the ones that don't sell diesel?  I don't think I've ever seen one that didn't. Are they talking about little hole-in-the-wall places in the backwoods, or are there diesel-dry areas in the US?
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Aug 7, 2012 21:44
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Splizwarf posted:Half of US service stations? Where are the ones that don't sell diesel? Near me (between Philly and NYC) it's significantly less than half. There's still no problem finding diesel, but most fuel stations that aren't on larger roads don't have it.
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Aug 7, 2012 21:58
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Motronic posted:Near me (between Philly and NYC) it's significantly less than half. There's still no problem finding diesel, but most fuel stations that aren't on larger roads don't have it. Lots of smaller stations in rural bumfuck Texas don't have diesel.
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Aug 7, 2012 22:19
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Splizwarf posted:Half of US service stations? Where are the ones that don't sell diesel? Many of the ones I see in urbanized Miami and Miami Beach don't have diesel.
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Aug 7, 2012 22:31
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Throatwarbler posted:GM is already running a marketing campaign to "educate consumers" about the benefit of diesels. From what I heard at work, the Cruze diesel has been in production, currently sitting in a lot near Lansing (unsure of the veracity of that part) and is going out soon. They were hoping gas would hit $5/gal this summer so they could release it when diesel's cheaper. From what I know about the dealers' diesel abilities for Duramax engines and discerning client taste*, it's going to be a shitshow, STAY TUNED. *When I first started this job, I worked on a claim for a buyback where the dealership had replaced a Duramax on a brand-new truck because "it had an engine tick."
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Aug 7, 2012 22:59
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