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Why the prevailing racket re: secondary 'fermentation'? (quotations since no fermentation occurs within this vessel?). I'm specifically calling out Northern Brewer, since they unceasingly flog the 'secondary fermentation' poo poo. Basically, I think it's a good business model for them, selling extra carboys, sanitizer, siphons, etc. Especially since it's not strictly necessary for 75% of beers..
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Aug 8, 2012 05:18
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Unsure on a global scale, but it makes sense for me. I have a spot perfect for secondary that's too small for the wider bucket but the carboy fits perfectly. Additionally, I can use the single "primary" bucket for bottling, as well instead of having to have a second to take the beer off the trub beforehand. As long as I need two containers, I'll keep my bucket for primary and bottling, and keep the glass carboy so I can see my work in progress. Eventually I want to use a 6.5g carboy for primary and just use the bucket for bottling/storage.
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Aug 8, 2012 05:25
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I've always transferred to a secondary after 2-3 weeks up until the last batch I brewed which I kept in the primary for 3 weeks before transferring it to the bottling bucket and then bottling. The bottles have a lot more yeast in them than my previous batches but they also seem to be carbonating much faster. I'll have to see how the next few batches turn out but so far I'm sold on the idea of not doing a secondary unless it's a big beer that's going to age for a while or some other good reason to do it.
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Aug 8, 2012 06:01
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To be fair, I've used secondaries for a lot of useful things. It's more effort, but the beer runs clearer after I crash cool the primary, rack off of the yeast and keep the secondary cold for a week or so. I've also left a stout in a secondary on some cacao nibs and done a "real" secondary on some fruit.
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Aug 8, 2012 07:00
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A lot of the hate for secondaries comes from the facts that: 1) The name is misleading and stupid 2) Racking to secondary does not clarify your beer any more than just leaving it in primary 3) Leaving a beer in primary will not cause autolysis unless you're leaving it in there for months and months 4) Racking to secondary introduces a greater chance for infection as well as yet another opportunity for the beer to get oxidized 5) Secondaries introduce a lot of headaches for people on the internet because new brewers frequently stress over when to rack to their secondary They do have their place though, I know a lot of people will rack to secondaries over fruit.
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Aug 8, 2012 13:06
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Angry Grimace posted:To be fair, I've used secondaries for a lot of useful things. It's more effort, but the beer runs clearer after I crash cool the primary, rack off of the yeast and keep the secondary cold for a week or so. Similar to what I do. But this isn't a secondary. You are bulk aging the beer. No sense in using a word that means something else. I tend to use carboys as holding tanks to free up my fermenters as I wait for a keg to open up.
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Aug 8, 2012 14:19
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Docjowles posted:
I think the UK is going through a stage where every cowboy two-bit brewery gets some sort of exposure. It would take good product and consistency along with tireless self-promotion to rise above the pack. Brewdog did the first and third (though lacked in consistency) with dogged tirelessness. People like Redchurch, a tiny brewery in east London, can't brew fast enough to keep up with demand. I think that's pretty cool, given they started a year ago and have a line of just 3 beers they do. Trust me, I know if I wanted to go pro I would not get rich. It's just a matter of having come to a realization in the past 10 months or so that I in fact do have an enterpreneurial streak and a strong desire to create stuff rather than be an information economy drone. Without getting too deep into personal stuff here, I'm ready to take a lower standard of living for something I am passionate about. In fact, not just ready but willing. Galler posted:You might be interested in this BrewingTV episode which is about Jamil Zainasheff go from homebrewer to probrewer. Thanks to both of you for these links. I will most definitely watch/listen to them.
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Aug 8, 2012 15:03
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So after 2 weeks in primary, my partial mash IPA with rye, caramalt, special B and WL001 still has a very stiff krausen hanging on top. Do I bottle it or wait for the krausen to subside?
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Aug 8, 2012 15:20
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BlueGrot posted:So after 2 weeks in primary, my partial mash IPA with rye, caramalt, special B and WL001 still has a very stiff krausen hanging on top. Do I bottle it or wait for the krausen to subside? If you're at the desired final gravity and the sample tastes good, crash cool it if you have the capability. It'll drop in a day or two.
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Aug 8, 2012 15:24
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I don't have the capacity to crash cool it. Gonna leave it in a few days extra. Never had a krausen stay more than a few days. Only done 10-15 brews though.
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Aug 8, 2012 15:28
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BlueGrot posted:I don't have the capacity to crash cool it. Gonna leave it in a few days extra. Never had a krausen stay more than a few days. Only done 10-15 brews though. I had an IPA where the krausen stayed for something like 17 days. I think I even posted a similar question in the thread. Two days after that it was finally down, and the gravity was way lower than I expected it to end at. Great brew 
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Aug 8, 2012 15:35
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BlueGrot posted:I don't have the capacity to crash cool it. Gonna leave it in a few days extra. Never had a krausen stay more than a few days. Only done 10-15 brews though. I am guessing the gums in the rye are giving you what amount to massive head retention. Check your gravity and I am betting you will find that it's done. A few more days won't hurt anything, though.
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Aug 8, 2012 15:36
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Buy a bucket, get one free at Northern Brewer. http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...tm_medium=email
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Aug 8, 2012 15:47
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I brewed a Sierra nevada pale ale clone back in April-May. I fermented at 64* and let it sit in the primary for 3 weeks then bottle for 3 weeks before trying it out. It was very hazy but tasted good. I still have a couple of bottles left and I tried it again last night. The beer is crystal clear now and drinks more like an amber ale than a hoppy pale ale. What cleared up the beer so much? Was it just gravity over the 3 months or was it the yeast in the bottle doing their job? How can I speed this process up in the future?
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Aug 8, 2012 15:51
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lazerwolf posted:I brewed a Sierra nevada pale ale clone back in April-May. I fermented at 64* and let it sit in the primary for 3 weeks then bottle for 3 weeks before trying it out. It was very hazy but tasted good. I still have a couple of bottles left and I tried it again last night. The beer is crystal clear now and drinks more like an amber ale than a hoppy pale ale. What cleared up the beer so much? Was it just gravity over the 3 months or was it the yeast in the bottle doing their job? How can I speed this process up in the future? Yup, it was just gravity and time. Cold storage helps with this. One nice thing (among many) about kegging is that once I move a keg into the serving fridge immediately after filling it, it never has to be moved again in many cases, so sediment never gets disturbed. Also, if you are force-carbonating in kegs, you can use other finings, such as gelatin, to pull that haze out in a matter of days.
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Aug 8, 2012 15:57
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Jo3sh posted:I am guessing the gums in the rye are giving you what amount to massive head retention. Check your gravity and I am betting you will find that it's done. A few more days won't hurt anything, though. Checked a gravity reading, it read 1.011 vs a projected 1.018 when attenuating 75%. Beer tastes like alcohol. Double checked the recipe and the yeast was safale US-05. This would give the yeast an attenuation of 85%. Checked my hydrometer in water and it read 1.000. Apparantly people get 80+ attenuation on this yeast, hoping it's not infected.
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Aug 8, 2012 16:07
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BlueGrot posted:hoping it's not infected. It's not. If it were, you would report it smelling and tasting bad.
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Aug 8, 2012 16:09
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It didn't taste all that good, but I'm hoping that's something getting the yeast sedimented will solve. Smell was nice though.
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Aug 8, 2012 16:10
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Occasionally krausen will simply never drop due to too much hops and yeast and other gunk coagulating, it's very recipe and yeast dependent in these cases. Sorry to hear about your beer being boozier than planned - this happened to me with a saison recently. If the problem is just that it's too boozy (not fusels) then it will get better with age as the alcohol and other flavors blends and mellow, but likely it will always be "out of balance" to some degree. Perhaps you mashed too low or fermented too hot, but 85% attenuation is not unrealistic for that yeast, just something to make a note of for future brews 
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Aug 8, 2012 16:18
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Fermentation might have been a bit hot, but not over 21c. It's turning out to be a bit of a fatally imbalanced beer with an ABV of 8.2% and an IBU of 30. Egads! Maybe it'll be great by spring. It was an extract brew with steeped special grains.
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Aug 8, 2012 16:20
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BlueGrot, given good circumstances and the right sugars, US-05 is a glutton. It will attenuate more than 85% if given a chance and a good start. I had an experience like that when a 5.7% projected beer ended up being 6.4%. Happened to be the same beer I mentioned a few posts up. Lazerwolf: I found that when I made a lightly hopped American-style pale (essentially a nod to SNPA if not a clone) the hops mellowed to something amber-style in the time that the beer dropped to absolute crystal clarity in bottle in something like 2 months. So yeah I'd corroborate that.
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Aug 8, 2012 16:21
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It still tastes real good, maybe better than it did at the start. I remember it finishing a bit high 1.020ish and it was a partial boil extract kit so that's where I attribute the residual sweetness. Poor pale ale but a great amber! For those who cold condition in bottle, do you wait the 2-3 weeks for the yeast to carb the beer or from the start just chill it to help it clear up? I really need to get a keg system soon...
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Aug 8, 2012 16:49
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Ideally, hold the newly bottled beer at ferment temp or room temp until carbonation is good, then store it cold until consumed. Of course, most people don't have fridge space for 50+ bottles of beer at a throw, so try for a cool, dark place, or at very least a dark one.
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Aug 8, 2012 16:54
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drewhead posted:Similar to what I do. But this isn't a secondary. You are bulk aging the beer. No sense in using a word that means something else. Ha! I didn't use the word secondary "fermentation" - its a "secondary vessel!"  Edit: ooh free buckets! I use those buckets mostly for storage and as a place to keep ready made Star San if I'm going to do a lot of brewing over a shortish period of time. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 17:22
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Oh one more post on the same page won't hurt, right? Sorry for spamming. I'm procrastinating, and thinking about mash tuns. I am less than handy (or rather don't trust myself really) so decided to eBay for mash tun conversions. A lot of the ones I find are like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-new-Cool-Box-Mash-Tun-28-litre-/290755696396?pt=Home_Brew&hash=item43b263d70c that is, 28 liters. That's not _that_ much given the space needed for the actual grain, is it? Can I get a full 5 gallon boil out of that? I mean, the sparge water will add to my initial liquor but I guess I haven't read my John Palmer through. Can I make a decent range of beers using a 28 liter cooler or should I go bigger?
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Aug 8, 2012 17:29
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Kaiho posted:Oh one more post on the same page won't hurt, right? Sorry for spamming.
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Aug 8, 2012 17:33
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Kaiho posted:Oh one more post on the same page won't hurt, right? Sorry for spamming. Definitely go bigger. You can probably do moderate gravity 5 gallon AGs in there, but any more than that and you'll start running into volume issues. edit: Don't go smaller than 40 quarts/liters.
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Aug 8, 2012 17:33
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Thanks for the quick responses, guys. That's precisely what I thought. Not that I am necessarily looking to brew 10 percenters but I wouldn't want to limit myself once I do go all-grain.
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Aug 8, 2012 17:42
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Angry Grimace posted:Ha! I didn't use the word secondary "fermentation" - its a "secondary vessel!" But if you are just using it to store things, why not just use $5 Homer buckets/lids rather than $16/2 Ale Pails?
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Aug 8, 2012 18:01
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Kaiho posted:Thanks for the quick responses, guys. That's precisely what I thought. Not that I am necessarily looking to brew 10 percenters but I wouldn't want to limit myself once I do go all-grain. Midwest has a deal on for this 10-gallon AG setup: http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2012/08/great-deal-10-gallon-cooler-all-grain.html EDIT: Oh. You're in the UK. Sorry to tease you. Maybe the shipping would not be ruinous, but I am guessing that is not the case.
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Aug 8, 2012 18:01
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Jo3sh posted:But if you are just using it to store things, why not just use $5 Homer buckets/lids rather than $16/2 Ale Pails? Because I also use them to ferment and Homer buckets are like 8 bucks now.
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Aug 8, 2012 18:28
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Does that sale apply to the lids too? Serendipity, as I was about to order a pair of buckets. Thanks for the heads-up!
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Aug 8, 2012 20:59
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No free lids. When you add a bucket to your cart another one gets added in for free. Luckily the lids are cheap.
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Aug 8, 2012 21:11
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I've run into a problem today. I've run out of beer and it's only August 8th. I usually try to brew enough before the summer heat shows up to last me until fall, but it's been an event and beer filled summer. My issue is thus, it's 85 degrees in my brew room, and there's no way to really lower that ambient temp. Much to high for fermentation. Any goons out there have a suggestion for keeping my brew cooler during fermentation for relatively few dollars? Live in an apartment so a fridge/freezer isn't really doable.
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Aug 8, 2012 23:09
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brew buckets in the bathtub with appropriately added ice. It's what I'm doing at the moment, plus I feel like I'm violating prohibition, so there's that...
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Aug 8, 2012 23:14
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Jo3sh posted:Something like this would work great on the water side: So, again, because I'm really thick about some things... I could do either of the following, yes? 1. Put pump in pool. Attach the included garden hose adapter to the pump. Attach the other end of the hose to the immersion chiller's NPT "in" connector. Have another hose or plastic tubing or whatever connected to the "out" end of the chiller, running open-ended back into the pool. Plug in and let it circulate water around until the wort's cool. 2. Fill a garbage can with clean water + 20 lbs of ice. That becomes the "pool" in the scenario above. For #1, my pool water's about 85° right now so for the summer I see limitations in its use there. However in the other seasons, this seems doable, especially as the air temp comes back down. For #2, if a pump like the one you linked to above pumps 30 gallons a minute, and the trash can is, say, 30 gallons, in your estimate (or anyone else who cares to chime in) is that a large enough source of water to cool the wort from 212° to 68° before the source water is heated by the wort and gradually warms to the point of ineffectiveness?
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Aug 8, 2012 23:15
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letgomyAgo posted:I've run into a problem today. I've run out of beer and it's only August 8th. I usually try to brew enough before the summer heat shows up to last me until fall, but it's been an event and beer filled summer. I live in an apartment and just turned a mini-fridge into a ferm fridge with temp controller. When I'm not making beer it just becomes my beer fridge. The thermostat ended up costing more than the fridge itself.
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Aug 8, 2012 23:27
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wattershed posted:So, again, because I'm really thick about some things... Temperature change is proportional to volume since beer is approximately water. So for a 5 gallon batch and 30 gallon trash can every 6 degrees of change in the beer will be 1 degree of change in your water. 144 of change divided by 6 gives 24, so you'd need source water at 68-24=44 degrees. Thats with a perfect approach which takes agonizingly long, so for a doable 10 degree approach that's a trashcan of 34 degree water. Might as well use a smaller volume of ice water at that point.
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Aug 8, 2012 23:40
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wattershed posted:So, again, because I'm really thick about some things... Yes, you could do either of those. As to the cooling power of a trashcan full of ice water: I used setup #2 with (wild guess) 30 gallons of water plus 35 pounds of ice in my last attempt to cool 10 gallons of boiling wort. I came to the conclusion that I needed more ice, maybe twice as much. But I think 30 gallons + 35 pounds would work great for a five gallon batch. Someone more knowledgeable than I am can probably calculate just how much water+ice you would need to hit a given temperature; I am just flying by the seat of my pants here. Jo3sh fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 23:53
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I should really know this already, but how long should I plan on soaking something in vodka to sanitize before adding to beer? Minutes, hours, days? Planning to add some chopped fresh ginger. Edit: I'm adding the ginger directly, not trying to extract flavor into the vodka. Just want to make sure it's sanitized. Docjowles fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Aug 9, 2012 |
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Aug 9, 2012 00:16
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