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I don't often read Deadspin anymore for reasons that have been discussed at length here, but every once in a while they still publish something that hits. http://deadspin.com/5931911/what-did-lolo-jones-ever-do-to-the-new-york-times
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Aug 8, 2012 05:14
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Capt Murphy posted:Grantland has had a few good pieces pop up in the last year. The only one I'd really encourage people to read is this piece about an 1810 boxing match. It's fascinating stuff and I think a glimmer of what Grantland could do if Bill Simmons fell into a volcano tomorrow. I think Bill Simmons deserves a lot of the credit for assembling a really interesting, eclectic, and talented group of writers for Grantland. Very few of them have failed to turn in something really, really good if not great in it's short life. I think Simmons is a bad writer but I don't think you can fault him as an editor in chief quite yet.
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Aug 8, 2012 05:22
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He's good in an editor role. Has a nice eye for talent and lets that talent do work without too much oversight. The 30 for 30 series ended up being one of the best things ESPN has done in a long time. I also like his podcast because he gets good guests and lets them actually talk. I still think Grantland struggles to find its niche. It wants to do too much. Seems like they'd be best suited to putting our a handful of top tier articles/pieces everyday. But they throw in some low quality filler content which seems out of place at times. If they got rid of that, I think it'd help keep their message clearer.
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Aug 8, 2012 05:33
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Due to time constraints, Grantland has replaced JoePos as my main source of quality sports writing this past year. So looking at JoePos now... what happened? His articles are very spread apart and nowhere near the quality they used to be.
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Aug 8, 2012 05:50
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OctoberBlues posted:Due to time constraints, Grantland has replaced JoePos as my main source of quality sports writing this past year. So looking at JoePos now... what happened? His articles are very spread apart and nowhere near the quality they used to be. He's been writing frequent short Olympics pieces here: http://sportsonearthblog.com/ I don't know if that's a new permanent thing or what the deal is there. I think he's also still working on that Paterno book, which has obviously had to take a pretty radical turn from what he initially intended it to be. I'm a little worried about that one, because so far he has not come off well when talking about the whole situation (as has been discussed here several times). On Grantland, I'm mostly happy with it. Bill Simmons is a lovely writer, but he did a good job assembling some talented people and he mostly seems to stay out of the way and let them do interesting stuff on a regular basis. The blog is mostly dumb filler and the pop culture stuff is almost completely worthless, but they're still regularly putting out good columns about a wide variety of subjects.
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Aug 8, 2012 06:02
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I'm surprised at how much more successful Grantland has been than The Classical. It's not easy to pump out high-quality content at the rate they do.
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Aug 8, 2012 06:21
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OctoberBlues posted:Due to time constraints, Grantland has replaced JoePos as my main source of quality sports writing this past year. So looking at JoePos now... what happened? His articles are very spread apart and nowhere near the quality they used to be. He's too busy defending Paterno
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Aug 8, 2012 06:21
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Popero posted:I don't often read Deadspin anymore for reasons that have been discussed at length here, but every once in a while they still publish something that hits. That's a great response, what a piece of poo poo piece by the NY Times.
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Aug 8, 2012 06:27
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morestuff posted:I'm surprised at how much more successful Grantland has been than The Classical. It's not easy to pump out high-quality content at the rate they do. Grantland's names move pageviews. The Classical's let me write for them before. Not too hard to figure out.
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Aug 8, 2012 06:27
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Crion posted:Grantland's names move pageviews. The Classical's let me write for them before. Not too hard to figure out. You're a writer?
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Aug 8, 2012 06:49
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I like The Classical for the most part but some of their articles drop down a rabbit hole that I patently refuse to follow them into. Some very talented writers (obviously a lot less name recognition), but they work on a shoestring compared to ESPN-backed Grantland and it shows. I cannot think of one piece there that has moved me like, say, anything Michael Weinreb has written on Penn State. They also don't do as much reporting as some of Grantland's writers. Now that Gawker is getting into the essay game (read this if you haven't already but for the love of Christ don't discuss it here) it seems like Deadspin and Grantland will be competing for some of the same pageviews. This will be interesting, as journalism competition does not usually bring out the best in either party. And if you have not yet read anything from Deadspin's Tell Me When It's Over series, start here and then go here. e: and Crion owns and I always read his SA posts LARGE THE HEAD fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 07:35
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MourningView posted:He's been writing frequent short Olympics pieces here: http://sportsonearthblog.com/ I don't know if that's a new permanent thing or what the deal is there. I think he's also still working on that Paterno book, which has obviously had to take a pretty radical turn from what he initially intended it to be. I'm a little worried about that one, because so far he has not come off well when talking about the whole situation (as has been discussed here several times). morestuff posted:I'm surprised at how much more successful Grantland has been than The Classical. It's not easy to pump out high-quality content at the rate they do. The Classical, on the other hand, was entirely Kickstarter funded, and everyone writing there is writing because they want to. (Full disclosure: I wrote for them.) If I remember correctly, both David J. Roth and Bethlehem Shoals took a small compensatory payment from the Kickstarter funds to serve as co-editors, but it was in the, like, $5,000 range. That kind of thing. It's nowhere close to being the majority of their income. Shoals still writes for half a dozen outlets. Roth writes for the Wall Street Journal and Vice, as well as anywhere else that is interested. (Vice, and the latter, pay badly.) Nobody who writes for The Classical is doing it as their primary source of income, and very few people there are seeing any money. (I didn't get paid; if Crion did, it wasn't much.) Their staff are all doing stuff freelance for the Classical when they have free time from some other full time job or free time from freelancing. Basically, you get a very different product when you've got ESPN's billions and connections behind you. Please forgive me if I'm sounding all INSIDE BASEBALL here, but I know a couple people at both places, and at Grantland, you can basically get on the blower to someone at ESPN who knows an athlete and arrange an interview if you need one. ESPN commands attention. Then you've got the budget to fly out and see that interviewee in person. If you have a big idea for a multi-month think piece that involves some travel, it's pretty much gonna happen. At the Classical, if you want to interview a dude, you've gotta hope you know someone who knows someone or can finagle a pass to the locker room when they're in town. If you want to cover an event, you have to figure out a way to get the magazine or newspaper that already pays you (for something else) to send you out to cover an unrelated story or to do another piece on the same story, then write that story for them while pocketing your quotes and info for the Classical piece you want to do. You're doubling your work to do what you want to. Blah blah blah, money is awesome and changes everything. Cyndi Lauper said that. Apart from the awesome bit. LARGE THE HEAD posted:I like The Classical for the most part but some of their articles drop down a rabbit hole that I patently refuse to follow them into. Some very talented writers (obviously a lot less name recognition), but they work on a shoestring compared to ESPN-backed Grantland and it shows. OK, I'm gonna shut up. Apologies if this reads like a long sales pitch for dudes I really like. I don't wanna pretend I dont have a conflict of interest here, I just hope it wasn't loving irritating.
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Aug 8, 2012 12:00
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Yeah I was too harsh on Simmons. He's still a hack of a writer but he's done good work launching Grantland. I really wish they would focus on some of the more insightful and developed pieces as opposed to stuff like the Reality TV Power Rankings or whatever it is they do. Also never let Barnwell write again. That boxing piece I linked is exceptional, and their man at Wimbledon was turning out some charming and quirky pieces. I don't know what's happened to Klosterman, his early piece on the best basketball game no one saw was great - but I guess he's busy acting as ethicist for the NYTimes (it's not going well). The Olympic stuff at the Sports on Earth blog is a preview of what's to come after the games. I'm pretty sure SOE is a Grantland type venture and what he's been hinting at for a while at his old blog. I've generally liked what JoePos has been putting up, and I still genuinely like him. But I'm worried about the Paterno book - I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe he'll address it, but I just don't know at this point. Still, there's a dearth of good sports writing so I'm not going to abandon him too hastily. I'm sorry if I'm perpetuating annoying discussions that have already taken place ten times, so please accept this link to the ESPN article on cricket and Sachin Tendulkar, which is excellent, as a peace offering. edit: Yeah that's a fair point. I guess I'd just like to see more of the good stuff. vvvv Capt Murphy fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 14:30
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Capt Murphy posted:Yeah I was too harsh on Simmons. He's still a hack of a writer but he's done good work launching Grantland. I really wish they would focus on some of the more insightful and developed pieces as opposed to stuff like the Reality TV Power Rankings or whatever it is they do. I don't think they're really doing one at the expense of the other though. You can only turn out so many of those big pieces, the rest is basically just there as filler so they'll have frequent updates for people who are visiting multiple times a day. They're still doing the interesting stuff on a regular basis, and it's typically being done by different people than the fluff, so I don't think one gets in the way of the other too much. I wish they'd cut back on that other stuff a bit, but it's not too hard to just ignore it. I check it pretty much daily now, but I almost never click on either blog or anything with a pop culture slant.
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Aug 8, 2012 14:49
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I did the Seong-min Kim piece for The Classical instead of for BP or wherever because it was a broadside at the Orioles in general and Dan Duquette specifically (I think I called for his job explicitly at least once) and as much as Ben Lindbergh would let me get away with I didn't think this fell under that (later I found out it would have been fine, but that's neither here nor there). It was also 6000 some odd words long, might have had some minor profanity in it since just about everything I write tends to, and generally fit better there. It could have gone any number of places, really, but I'd told David Roth I'd write something for the site and that was it. When I finally get around to doing my follow up (my day job isn't even remotely related to sports journalism so I can't even double dip) it'll be the same way edit: And yeah, no one gets paid at The Classical, not even editorial as far as I know. They were discussing perhaps doing some for-pay eBook crap but I've been out of the loop on that stuff for awhile. Crion fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 15:15
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Holy Diverticulitis posted:Blah blah blah, money is awesome and changes everything. Cyndi Lauper said that. Apart from the awesome bit. Yeah, all that makes sense. Just to be clear, I didn't intend that as a swipe at The Classical -- they've turned out some good work, but given the talent involved, I probably had unrealistic expectations.
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Aug 8, 2012 15:49
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morestuff posted:Yeah, all that makes sense. Just to be clear, I didn't intend that as a swipe at The Classical -- they've turned out some good work, but given the EDIT: I didn't think you were being critical by saying this. Sorry if it seemed instantly critical. Really, it's knee-jerk. Holy Diverticulitis fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 15:53
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Holy Diverticulitis posted:Talent is not the problem. This is the point. I got what you were saying; that's what I pointed to my own unrealistic expectations. I like the writers and editorial team at The Classical a lot more, and as a result expected to like the site more than I do, but the reality is obviously more complex. I'm glad they both exist. quote:EDIT: I didn't think you were being critical by saying this. Sorry if it seemed instantly critical. Really, it's knee-jerk. No worries, I didn't take it that way. morestuff fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 16:07
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I'm happy both The Classical and Grantland exist, too, but for different reasons. To me, The Classical is kind of like the listings of Notable Sportswriting at the end of those Glenn Stout anthologies: I'm not going to like everything there, but it's a good place to check out new voices and stuff you wouldn't normally see. Crion's piece is a good example and Tom Keiser's UFL piece is another. Grantland's the opposite: I'm not going to discover anyone new there, but it's nice to see stuff by people I already know and enjoy. And they've had some very good pieces there, too: I really enjoyed their oral history of the Malice at the Palace.
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Aug 8, 2012 16:50
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Capt Murphy posted:That boxing piece I linked is exceptional, and their man at Wimbledon was turning out some charming and quirky pieces. Those were actually both by the same guy! Brian Phillips. He's great, my favorite writer on Grantland. He used to run a soccer blog that has some pretty good pieces on it, before Grantland snapped him up.
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Aug 8, 2012 20:23
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Brian Phillips is the best guy writing for Grantland by far and it makes me sort of sad that I've never been able to muster up much enthusiasm for the sport he spends most of his time writing about.
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Aug 9, 2012 01:49
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MourningView posted:Brian Phillips is the best guy writing for Grantland by far and it makes me sort of sad that I've never been able to muster up much enthusiasm for the sport he spends most of his time writing about. His latest piece is definitely worth a read, even if you don't care for the sport.
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Aug 10, 2012 17:36
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Random question, but does anyone know the average salary of a sportswriter? This could make or break my day.
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Aug 13, 2012 02:40
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seiferguy posted:Random question, but does anyone know the average salary of a sportswriter? Median salary is probably free, average is going to be skewed by those at the top.
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Aug 13, 2012 02:45
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jeffersonlives posted:Median salary is probably free, average is going to be skewed by those at the top. This is true but average reported salary is $49,000.
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Aug 13, 2012 02:54
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Frot Lesnar posted:This is true but average reported salary is $49,000. Wow, that still seems high. I know entry is typically ~$33-35k.
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Aug 13, 2012 18:02
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ThatsMyBoye posted:Wow, that still seems high. I know entry is typically ~$33-35k. Most dudes have been in the business since The Dawn Of Time and you have some huge outliers like Simmons etc so I'm not surprised to see that the median would be 49k.
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Aug 13, 2012 20:15
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I can only share my experience, but... Fresh out of college, 2003, at a weekly paper (working as 'sports editor' aka a one-man sports department) with a circulation just under 5,000: starting pay $19,000 per year, topped out at ~$23,000 per year in 2007. 2008, daily newspaper, as a sports writer only, with a circulation somewhere between 10-12k: starting and ending pay of $13 per hour. No overtime allowed. I left that last job to go into government work in 2010 and finally got into the >30k club.
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Aug 13, 2012 20:17
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Keep in mind the median household income is about $45k give or take a couple thousand bucks. So if a lot of the guys still around have 20 years of seniority, then yeah, the picture nasboat paints of guys getting very little for their experience/education is accurate.
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Aug 13, 2012 20:22
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The Prisoner posted:Keep in mind the median household income is about $45k give or take a couple thousand bucks. So if a lot of the guys still around have 20 years of seniority, then yeah, the picture nasboat paints of guys getting very little for their experience/education is accurate. oh yeah i was just pointing out how it could be so high
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Aug 13, 2012 20:23
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A lot of guys also have side gigs with radio shows, so keep that in mind.
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Aug 13, 2012 21:12
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AsInHowe posted:A lot of guys also have side gigs with radio shows, so keep that in mind. Most guys in my end of the woods do radio gigs for free. Kevin Goldstein doesn't get paid for any of his iirc, nor does Jay Jaffe.
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Aug 13, 2012 21:20
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Crion posted:Most guys in my end of the woods do radio gigs for free. Kevin Goldstein doesn't get paid for any of his iirc, nor does Jay Jaffe. Like, they host a show for free? Most writers in Detroit have an actual radio show that they host, not just a call-in segment or something.
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Aug 13, 2012 23:27
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AsInHowe posted:Like, they host a show for free? This is still a tiny fraction of the sportswriters out there, though.
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Aug 13, 2012 23:34
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AsInHowe posted:Like, they host a show for free? Oh, no, they do like five-ten minute spots on shows across the country. Very very few sportswriters get to host their own shows (and the ones that do are generally poo poo sportswriters to begin with)
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Aug 14, 2012 00:12
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I'm in a sports reporting class in Australia and my lecturer just brought up Peter King's column as the best example of sports writing going. Aaaaaaarrrgggghhhhhhhhh
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Aug 14, 2012 01:39
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dshban posted:I'm in a sports reporting class in Australia and my lecturer just brought up Peter King's column as the best example of sports writing going. Aaaaaaarrrgggghhhhhhhhh Did you ask if they're sure, of if that's just something they think they think?
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Aug 14, 2012 02:02
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I thought the Grantland piece on Kevin Nash was pretty interesting: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8241536/wrestling-star-kevin-nash-making-headway-hollywood-keeps-night
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Aug 14, 2012 02:21
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Technowrite posted:I thought the Grantland piece on Kevin Nash was pretty interesting: Grantland's professional wrestling pieces are so poorly researched with odd editing choices. This article refers to Shawn Michaels as Michael "Shawn Michaels" Hickenbottom but no ABC article would say Thomas "Tom Cruise" Mapother. Nash also lies constantly in this interview because he says people want to pay to watch big guys but ignores that he was the worst drawing champion in WWE history.
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Aug 14, 2012 02:52
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Sports "Journalism" is a farce. gently caress them all.
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Aug 14, 2012 04:26
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