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FitFortDanga
Nov 19, 2004

Nice try, asshole

#138 - RASHOMON (BR/DVD, Nov 6)



•New digital restoration, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition
•Audio commentary by Japanese-film historian Donald Richie
•Video introduction by director Robert Altman
•Excerpts from The World of Kazuo Miyagawa, a documentary on Rashomon’s cinematographer
•A Testimony as an Image, a sixty-eight-minute documentary featuring interviews with cast and crew new
•Archival audio interview with actor Takashi Shimura new
•Original and rerelease trailers new
•New English subtitle translation new
•PLUS: A booklet featuring an essay by film historian Stephen Prince; an excerpt from director Akira Kurosawa’s Something Like an Autobiography; and reprints of Rashomon’s two source stories by Ryunosuke Akutagawa, “Rashomon” and “In a Grove”


#631-634: PASOLINI'S TRILOGY OF LIFE (3-disc BR/4-disc DVD, Nov 13)



•New high-definition digital restorations of all three films, with uncompressed monaural soundtracks on the Blu-ray editions
•New visual essays by film scholars Patrick Rumble and Tony Rayns on The Decameron and Arabian Nights, respectively
•New interviews with art director Dante Ferretti and composer Ennio Morricone about their work with Pasolini, and with film scholar Sam Rohdie on The Canterbury Tales
•The Lost Body of Alibech (2005), a forty-five-minute documentary by Roberto Chiesi about a lost sequence from The Decameron
•The Secret Humiliation of Chaucer (2006), a forty-seven-minute documentary by Chiesi about The Canterbury Tales
•Via Pasolini, a documentary in which Pasolini discusses his views on language, film, and modern society
•Pier Paolo Pasolini and the Form of the City (1974), a sixteen-minute documentary by Pasolini and Paolo Burnatto about the ancient Italian cities Orte and Sabaudia
•Deleted scenes from Arabian Nights, with transcriptions of pages from the original script
•Pasolini-approved English-dubbed track for The Canterbury Tales
•Trailers
•New English subtitle translations
•PLUS: A booklet featuring essays by critic Colin MacCabe; Pasolini’s 1975 article “Trilogy of Life Rejected”; excerpts from Pasolini’s Berlin Film Festival press conference for The Canterbury Tales; and a report from the set of Arabian Nights by critic Gideon Bachmann


#635 - WEEKEND (BR/DVD, Nov 13)



•New, restored high-definition digital transfer, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition
•New video essay by film critic Kent Jones
•Archival interviews with actors Mireille Darc and Jean Yanne and assistant director Claude Miller
•Excerpt from a French television program on director Jean-Luc Godard, featuring on-set footage of Weekend shot by filmmaker Philippe Garrel
•Trailers
•PLUS: A booklet featuring an essay by critic and novelist Gary Indiana



#636 - HEAVEN'S GATE (2-disc BR/2-disc DVD, Nov 20)



•New, restored transfer of director Michael Cimino’s cut of the film, supervised by Cimino
• New restoration of the 5.1 surround soundtrack, supervised by Cimino, in DTS-HD Master Audio on the Blu-ray edition
•New illustrated audio interview with Cimino and producer Joann Carelli
•New interviews with actor Kris Kristofferson, soundtrack arranger and performer David Mansfield, and second assistant director Michael Stevenson
•The Johnson County War, a video interview with historian Bill O’Neal about the real-life conflict that inspired the film, and its resonance in popular culture
•Trailer and TV spots
•PLUS: A booklet featuring an essay by critic and programmer Giulia D’Agnolo Vallan


ECLIPSE SERIES 37: WHEN HORROR CAME TO SHOCHIKU (4-disc DVD, Nov 20)



• The X From Outer Space (Kazui Nihonmatsu 1967)
• Goke, Body Snatcher From Hell (Hajime Sato 1968)
• The Living Skeleton (Hiroshi Matsuno 1968)
• Genocide (Kazui Nihonmatsu 1968)



My take:

Rashomon - definite upgrade

Heaven's Gate and Weekend - absolutely no desire to see either of these again

Pasolini set - the few minutes of Decameron I saw left me very wary, but I'll rent it

Eclipse - looks fun! at least a rental for sure, possible blind buy

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leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

I live. I die. I live again.

Egbert Souse posted:

Shochiku Horror (Eclipse)

Really excited for this.

If you're wondering if it's for you, Goke and (I think) X are on Hulu.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
I have no interest in Michael Cimino's hat parade, Rashomon has consistently left me unphased, and I'll probably just catch Weekend (what a cool poster) on Hulu, but the Pasolini set seems really interesting, particularly with all those fabulous extras.

FitFortDanga
Nov 19, 2004

Nice try, asshole

Magic Hate Ball posted:

I have no interest in Michael Cimino's hat parade

From my old review:

quote:

Jeez, just look at all the loving HATS! We spent a million dollars on hats alone!

Jack Does Jihad
Jun 18, 2003

Yeah, this is just right. Has a nice feel, too.
So loving psyched for that Eclipse set. Finally, The X From Outer Space.

Ratedargh
Feb 20, 2011

Wow, Bob, wow. Fire walk with me.
I love the Rashomon cover. I can understand how some may not like it, but it is up my alley.

I'm interested to see some more Pasolini since Salo is my only representation of his work in my memory bank.

I've never seen Heaven's Gate though I'm curious.

I've never gotten my hands on any Eclipse set and I'm thinking I might start with this one.

Undead Unicorn
Sep 14, 2010

by Lowtax
Rashomon, that Eclipse set, and Rosemary's Baby. God hates the money in my wallet.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
So, there's no extras on Heaven's Gate about how it largely helped tank the New Hollywood? Or how it bankrupted United Artists? Or how it singlehandedly turned Cimino from an auteur loved by critics into a joke without a career? They should at least include a copy of Steven Bach's "Final Cut".

FitFortDanga
Nov 19, 2004

Nice try, asshole

Origami Dali posted:

So, there's no extras on Heaven's Gate about how it largely helped tank the New Hollywood? Or how it bankrupted United Artists? Or how it singlehandedly turned Cimino from an auteur loved by critics into a joke without a career? They should at least include a copy of Steven Bach's "Final Cut".

Considering Cimino's involvement in the release, he probably wanted to minimize that kind of thing.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!

So, any word on why they decided to release Heaven's Gate?

boom boom boom
Jun 28, 2012

by Shine

TrixRabbi posted:

So, any word on why they decided to release Heaven's Gate?

It's become fashionable in certain circles to claim that it's a good movie.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

FitFortDanga posted:

Considering Cimino's involvement in the release, he probably wanted to minimize that kind of thing.


You're probably right, which is a shame. Anyway, Cimino probably tried to run Criterion over budget by proposing the release should be 17 discs and come packaged inside of a stovepipe hat.

Joe Der Maus
Mar 19, 2007

mouseketeerous rex
Even though I love me some Godard, I don't really like Weekend. I was planning on buying it anyway, becuase I find that if I don't like the movie, Criterion's extras are worth the cost, but this release has so few, that it doesn't seem worth it.

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!

TrixRabbi posted:

So, any word on why they decided to release Heaven's Gate?

boom boom boom posted:

It's become fashionable in certain circles to claim that it's a good movie.

Joking aside, "Heaven's Gate" is culturally significant in that it marked the end of the New Hollywood era and completely director-driven films, though yeah, Criterion and Cimino are severely downplaying that.

Sheldrake
Jul 19, 2006

~pettin in the park~

VoodooXT posted:

Joking aside, "Heaven's Gate" is culturally significant in that it marked the end of the New Hollywood era and completely director-driven films, though yeah, Criterion and Cimino are severely downplaying that.

December will have their release of Ishtar and documentaries on how that made Elaine May the go-to director in Hollywood.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.

Origami Dali posted:

So, there's no extras on Heaven's Gate about how it largely helped tank the New Hollywood? Or how it bankrupted United Artists?
I hope not, as neither of those things happened. Heaven's Gate put UA in the red for the year, but it didn't bankrupt them; Transamerica (the parent company of UA) lost confidence in UA as a source of revenue, but the box office loss of around US$40 million was a couple billion shy of driving it into bankruptcy.

And while any statement about the death of the New Hollywood movement is necessarily speculative, I think the emergence of the modern blockbuster with Jaws (1975) and Star Wars (1977) is the single most important proximate cause. Saying Heaven's Gate killed New Hollywood is like saying Touch of Evil (1958) killed classic noir; they're both fencepost films, but anybody (with the possible exception of a few producers with their heads so far up their asses their noses were in a different time zone) could have told you that the movement they were a part of was at an end while they were still in production.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Criterioncast's Tumblr had a post about the various newsletter hints and we still seem to be missing Y Tu Mama Tambien, Grey Gardens Blu-Ray, and On The Waterfront, so hopefully those'll show up in the December announcements.

codyclarke
Jan 10, 2006

IDIOT SOUP
I've never seen Heaven's Gate but the shots I saw from it in that Z Channel documentary looked pretty gorgeous. I probably won't blind-buy it, but I'm looking forward to seeing it on blu-ray.

penismightier
Dec 6, 2005

What the hell, I'll just eat some trash.

FitFortDanga posted:

ECLIPSE SERIES 37: WHEN HORROR CAME TO SHOCHIKU (4-disc DVD, Nov 20)



• The X From Outer Space (Kazui Nihonmatsu 1967)
• Goke, Body Snatcher From Hell (Hajime Sato 1968)
• The Living Skeleton (Hiroshi Matsuno 1968)
• Genocide (Kazui Nihonmatsu 1968)


Yesssssss

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!

Sheldrake posted:

December will have their release of Ishtar and documentaries on how that made Elaine May the go-to director in Hollywood.

I hope Criterion will put out a "The End of an Era: New Hollywood" boxset that consists of Heaven's Gate, One from the Heart, Cruisin', and They All Laughed.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

SubG posted:

I hope not, as neither of those things happened. Heaven's Gate put UA in the red for the year, but it didn't bankrupt them; Transamerica (the parent company of UA) lost confidence in UA as a source of revenue, but the box office loss of around US$40 million was a couple billion shy of driving it into bankruptcy.

And while any statement about the death of the New Hollywood movement is necessarily speculative, I think the emergence of the modern blockbuster with Jaws (1975) and Star Wars (1977) is the single most important proximate cause. Saying Heaven's Gate killed New Hollywood is like saying Touch of Evil (1958) killed classic noir; they're both fencepost films, but anybody (with the possible exception of a few producers with their heads so far up their asses their noses were in a different time zone) could have told you that the movement they were a part of was at an end while they were still in production.

I wasn't aware we were being so literal and comprehensive. So UA became a distribution label for Transamerica and later MGM instead of disappearing completely, who cares? As a renowned production company, they were toast. But to say that the failure of Heaven's Gate (along with One From The Heart) didn't play a role in putting the decline of a movement into warp speed... right. We all know effects-laden blockbusters were a safe and profitable out for the studios, but that ain't the whole picture.

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

I live. I die. I live again.
Releasing culturally significant and just plain interesting movies is great (I buy all their B and low budget horror stuff!) but without the context I do think you lose a lot of that.

I do wonder if working really closely with the director of a major flop/failure hurts that but I have no idea what the commentary is like and since I have no interest in seeing Heaven's Gate again I'll only know secondhand.

e: I'd buy One From The Heart, I really like it :shobon:

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

VoodooXT posted:

I hope Criterion will put out a "The End of an Era: New Hollywood" boxset that consists of Heaven's Gate, One from the Heart, Cruisin', and They All Laughed.

I would actually buy a release of Cruising.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.

Origami Dali posted:

I wasn't aware we were being so literal and comprehensive. So UA became a distribution label for Transamerica and later MGM instead of disappearing completely, who cares? As a renowned production company, they were toast. But to say that the failure of Heaven's Gate (along with One From The Heart) didn't play a role in putting the decline of a movement into warp speed... right. We all know effects-laden blockbusters were a safe and profitable out for the studios, but that ain't the whole picture.
It ain't the whole picture indeed, and that's why it's so hard to pin the demise of the movement on Heaven's Gate (or any other film that is actually part of the movement). Heaven's Gate was a major box office failure, but for example Raging Bull (also released in 1980) did poorly enough that Scorsese was concerned about being able to get financing in the future (particularly following his most spectacular commercial failure, New York, New York (1977)). It was critically well-received at the time and of course is now generally regarded as one of the great films. The point being that regardless of everything else, the market had moved on. That wasn't because films like Heaven's Gate tanked at the box office, films like Heaven's Gate tanked at the box office because of it. Put in slightly different terms, Heaven's Gate's commercial failure wasn't a cause of the end of the New Hollywood movement, it was an effect of it.

To put this further into perspective, if you look at fencepost film at the other end of the era, Arthur Penn's Bonnie and Clyde (1967) was initially nearly universally panned and didn't make a dime in the limited release Warner first gave it (in August of 1967). After some critical support (most notably by Pauline Kael) it was re-released in February of 1968, where it went on to be a commercial success. And of course it is now generally considered one of the most important American films of the second half of the 20th Century.

My point here is that Bonnie and Clyde came out on the ragged edge of when there was an audience to discover and support it. From there we find an increasing mainstream acceptance of the then-alternative sensibilities Penn's film represented, from counter-cultural anthems like Easy Rider (1969) to the domesticated subversion of films like Kell's Heroes (1970). And this isn't something that you only see in the confines of New Hollywood---the rise of the blaxploitation film and (major) mainstream success of films like Shaft (1971) reflect the same general trends in what kind of material resonated with audiences.

I don't plan on charting out all of the cultural currents of this historical moment, but it's easy to see that by the time Heaven's Gate was released in 1980 this was changing. This is the same year that The Empire Strikes Back was released, the highest grossing film of the year. Smokey and the Bandit II was a major mover at the box office, as was the original Friday the 13th (the first of the `big' franchises which arose to ride on the coattails of Carpenter's Halloween (1978)).

And that's just highlighting the business' general shift from film-as-film to film-as-franchise. There's all the other cultural shifts in terms of acceptance of violence-as-spectacle, the changes in our conception of female sexuality on screen, the huge adjustments to the image of masculinity, and on and on. My point is that all of this was going on completely independently of the production of films like Heaven's Gate, and by 1980 the end of New Hollywood was already a fait accompli.

Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec
As much as I am excited to get Blurays of the Pasolini trilogy, I still prefer that one older DVD cover to The Canterbury Tales which has Tom Baker of Dr. Who fame getting a hand job on it.


Also, saw The X from Outer Space years ago and remember enjoying it.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!


To keep this from veering too far off topic, I'll offer this. Regardless of the cultural and financial shifts at play in the entire life cycle of the New Hollywood (of which, once again, I'm well aware), I'm confident Heaven's Gate would have been as much of a disaster in 1973 as it was in 1980, or any other time for that matter, because it's simply a bloated mess of a film. The critics knew it, the audiences knew it, and it took a beating. To think that it was just a victim of circumstance is to render it, and all films, qualitatively blank. But that last bit is definitely for another thread.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.

Origami Dali posted:

To keep this from veering too far off topic, I'll offer this. Regardless of the cultural and financial shifts at play in the entire life cycle of the New Hollywood (of which, once again, I'm well aware), I'm confident Heaven's Gate would have been as much of a disaster in 1973 as it was in 1980, or any other time for that matter, because it's simply a bloated mess of a film. The critics knew it, the audiences knew it, and it took a beating. To think that it was just a victim of circumstance is to render it, and all films, qualitatively blank. But that last bit is definitely for another thread.
I'm not saying it's a victim of circumstance. I'm saying it wasn't the author of the destruction of the New Hollywood movement, as you suggested in your earlier comments.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
I said it largely helped. Just forget it dude.

Egbert Souse
Nov 6, 2008

Heaven's Gate can't be that bad. I didn't find the first third of The Deer Hunter to be tedious at all. At least it has nice cinematography, which isn't something your average bad movie offers.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.

Origami Dali posted:

I said it largely helped. Just forget it dude.
I disagree that it `largely helped' to end New Hollywood. It's something that gets kicked around a lot as conventional wisdom, along with the idea that it `bankrupted' UA, but both points rely on an model of events that is not only an oversimplification, it is simply inaccurate. If you don't want to discuss it and instead just want to make more jokes in which Heaven's Gate is the punchline, more power to ya. I'm not particularly in love with the film or anything, and I really don't care whether or not anyone likes it. But---and this isn't just directed at you---it's weird seeing these comments about how Criterion isn't mentioning the whole thing about how Heaven's Gate was a blight upon the industry or why they're `downplaying' its presumptive villainy without, you know, considering the possibility that it might be because there are other ways of looking at it, or that maybe unreflective acceptance of popular opinion about a film might not constitute good critical or source analysis.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

SubG posted:

I disagree that it `largely helped' to end New Hollywood. It's something that gets kicked around a lot as conventional wisdom, along with the idea that it `bankrupted' UA, but both points rely on an model of events that is not only an oversimplification, it is simply inaccurate. If you don't want to discuss it and instead just want to make more jokes in which Heaven's Gate is the punchline, more power to ya. I'm not particularly in love with the film or anything, and I really don't care whether or not anyone likes it. But---and this isn't just directed at you---it's weird seeing these comments about how Criterion isn't mentioning the whole thing about how Heaven's Gate was a blight upon the industry or why they're `downplaying' its presumptive villainy without, you know, considering the possibility that it might be because there are other ways of looking at it, or that maybe unreflective acceptance of popular opinion about a film might not constitute good critical or source analysis.

Like it or not, that is the popular consensus. I'm not saying that it's therefore ipso facto valid, but Criterion is a company that prides itself on being comprehensive. To treat this consensus as some aberration of oversimplified history that bears no mention is to compromise the analysis. And I do think it's a view that holds some validity (and I never said that the film holds sole responsibility, though I get the impression that you believe that I have). But as you said yourself, any theories about the end of the era are speculative. I think the history bears evidence that the film contributed to the downfall of the auteur model in American cinema and you, apparently, don't. There really isn't much else to say.

STEVIE B 4EVA
Nov 13, 2005

girl in the slayer jacket            i am searching for you

Origami Dali posted:

Like it or not, that is the popular consensus.

Popular consensus also once held that the sun revolved around the earth. And? What's so bad about admitting that you didn't know an aspect of film history that you'd rather backpedal in circles instead?

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

STEVIE B 4EVA posted:

Popular consensus also once held that the sun revolved around the earth. And? What's so bad about admitting that you didn't know an aspect of film history that you'd rather backpedal in circles instead?

I guess you didn't read the part right after that where I said that fact had no bearing on the validity of the theory. I'm also aware of the history of the era, it isn't rocket science.

I can't believe I've spent this much time talking about Heaven's Gate, of all loving movies.

Origami Dali fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Aug 16, 2012

STEVIE B 4EVA
Nov 13, 2005

girl in the slayer jacket            i am searching for you

Origami Dali posted:

I guess you didn't read the part right after that where I said that fact had no bearing on the validity of the theory.

No I did and I'm writing about that now but I didn't want any of that to soften me clowning on you for moving the goalposts.

STEVIE B 4EVA
Nov 13, 2005

girl in the slayer jacket            i am searching for you

Origami Dali posted:

I can't believe I've spent this much time talking about Heaven's Gate, of all loving movies.

Poor baby. Maybe next time don't spout received wisdom and then be shocked when not everyone agrees.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
This is interpreting the thread of history, of course there isn't going to be agreement. I've said my peace about how Criterion seems to be handling the history of the film and my thoughts on the film's history, and haven't changed anything. Feel free to bring something to the discussion.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!

For all we know, several of those features could very well address how it was a massive flop and the fallout. The booklet's essay may touch on it, as could the several interviews. Just because they didn't put together an entire documentary about it being an awful film and a massive flop doesn't mean it won't be touched upon.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

TrixRabbi posted:

For all we know, several of those features could very well address how it was a massive flop and the fallout. The booklet's essay may touch on it, as could the several interviews. Just because they didn't put together an entire documentary about it being an awful film and a massive flop doesn't mean it won't be touched upon.

This is very true. I wonder how Cimino actually feels about the film. He could very well be quite candid in the extras about how much of a failure of vision it was for all I know.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Julianne Moore, backseat mod.

On a different subject, here's DVDBeaver on The Royal Tenenbaums and Weekend, which I encourage everyone to see as it's a wonderful film. Also Tenenbaums is still half-off on Amazon, not sure if that's a permanent price or a sales price.

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juan the owl
Oct 26, 2007

THERE'S A MONSTER AT THE END OF THIS POST!!
It's dumb to stop a relevant conversation when all anybody else is going to post is lists of dvds they're buying and "my wallett :("

I think most people can agree that Heaven's Gate is at least an important case study in American movie history, but since it's such a notorious "flop" I'm sure this discussion is going to come up even more once it's released. And the arguments that always come up whenever Heaven's Gate is mentioned are probably a large part of why it's getting a Criterion release.

But it's a no-brainer why they're not including The Final Cut since its thesis rests totally on 1) Heaven's Gate is directly to blame for killing artistic filmmaking in America, and 2) Heaven's Gate is a travesty of a movie. Which, I mean, it's one thing to describe your product as "flawed" or "under-appreciated," but "zeitgeist-killing" is probably taking it a little too far.

Sheldrake posted:

December will have their release of Ishtar and documentaries on how that made Elaine May the go-to director in Hollywood.

You say that as though Elaine May isn't awesome. I would trade a bluray of The Graduate for The Heartbreak Kid any day.

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