ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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whowhatwhere: Mar 15, 2010; SHINee's back

What do you mean was "beyond repair"? It was doing perfectly well (on its own terms) when it was one of the critical cogs in the slave trade. Sure, it was horribly evil, but it was functional, which is far more than you can say for Dany's Meereen.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 02:41

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 12:54

The Anime Liker: Aug 8, 2009; by VideoGames

Occupation posted:

TVIV is actually a really great subforum with only a couple of absolutely godawful shithive terrible threads that throw off the balance.

Generally speaking though TVIV is pretty great, especially the thread IRQ got probated in.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 07:03

Arbite: Nov 4, 2009

Any chance we could get an update on our books progress? The chapter summation hasn't been updated since before I took chapter 20.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 07:35

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

whowhatwhere posted:

What do you mean was "beyond repair"? It was doing perfectly well (on its own terms) when it was one of the critical cogs in the slave trade. Sure, it was horribly evil, but it was functional, which is far more than you can say for Dany's Meereen.

I don't think that's fair, GRRM doesn't really do 'moral relativism', by which I mean that while it's clear that some characters live by their own codes and act amorally we are expected to look down upon those characters. At the end of the day the 'good' characters are very liberal and appeal to 20th century moral values.

While some characters point out to Dany that some of the freed slaves are so desperate they seek to sell themselves to slavery again at no point we're supposed to interpret Dany's decisions in her conquest of slaver's bay as immoral, if anything she makes moral decisions which work against her overall goals just because she feels obligated to them.

Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor are evil places, they were spreading evil to the world for 5,000 years, a brief period of political instability and warfare cannot be viewed as too high a price for what Dany was trying to achieve.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 12:32

Thulsa Doom: Jun 20, 2011; Ezekiel 23:20

emanresu tnuocca posted:

I don't think that's fair, GRRM doesn't really do 'moral relativism', by which I mean that while it's clear that some characters live by their own codes and act amorally we are expected to look down upon those characters. At the end of the day the 'good' characters are very liberal and appeal to 20th century moral values.

While some characters point out to Dany that some of the freed slaves are so desperate they seek to sell themselves to slavery again at no point we're supposed to interpret Dany's decisions in her conquest of slaver's bay as immoral, if anything she makes moral decisions which work against her overall goals just because she feels obligated to them.

Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor are evil places, they were spreading evil to the world for 5,000 years, a brief period of political instability and warfare cannot be viewed as too high a price for what Dany was trying to achieve.

The exception to this is Bronn. He's a pretty evil dude if you look at him by modern standards but everyone seems to cheer him on because he's entertaining to read about.

GRRM has this thing going where he liked to point out that the armies subordinate to the goody two shoes guys like Robb and Ned would still be up for a bit of rape and such, but never went anywhere with it.

Stannis, on the other hand, will geld any man in his army who's caught raping. More reason why he's the true king. :colbert:

Before he went and smashed his chess board, GRRM had the world set up to explore some of these issues- I particularly liked that in every conflict there were sympathetic people on both sides. He did a masterful job of maneuvering two sympathetic viewpoint characters, Sansa and Tyrion, into a situation where he could show one from the point of the view of the other and contrive some really interesting situations, and he brought that to an end almost immediately so Tyrion could go on a tore of shitland while Sansa gets diddled by one of the five thousand author inserts in this loving story.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 12:37

Sophia: Apr 16, 2003; The heart wants what the heart wants.

This is going to sound snarky but I really don't mean it that way: Who are the "good" characters in ASoIaF? Excluding the children like Tommen who are too young to have a moral valuing. I guess... Sam? Oh, and Ned obviously, but he got merked for it.

Dany doesn't count because even though she thinks she's doing something nice she's actually just loving everything up for a group of people that have nothing to do with her because she thinks she has the right to and the leverage to make it stick, which is not the hallmark of a morally good character. Kindness by fiat is not actually kindness. And she stopped at that place originally because she needed to like, steal their food as I recall.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 12:38

In It For The Tank: Feb 17, 2011; But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Sophia posted:

This is going to sound snarky but I really don't mean it that way: Who are the "good" characters in ASoIaF? Excluding the children like Tommen who are too young to have a moral valuing. I guess... Sam? Oh, and Ned obviously, but he got merked for it.

Davos.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 12:41

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

I actually think that at the end of the day there are pretty clear 'categories' within the GRRMverse, some characters of course change over time but it's pretty clear at any given point whether a character's motivations are primarily moral, immoral or otherwise amoral.

If an arbitrary listing is really necessary, good characters certainly include: Robb, Jon, Ned, Brienne, Catelyn, Jaime post-hand-severing, Dany (she stopped at the place to feed her huge freed-man horde, she had plenty provisions to march only her fighting men), Davos and of course Sam (and most of the non-treasonous nightwatch members).

# ? Aug 17, 2012 12:53

Thulsa Doom: Jun 20, 2011; Ezekiel 23:20

ASOIAF isn't about good and evil, it's about how women are terrible and ruin poo poo and drag good men down. Let's look at the major female characters:

Catelyn

Convinced Ned to go to King's Landing after the old gods sent him a clear warning not to, that he was prepared to heed.
Started the war by kidnapping Tyrion.
Believed her batshit crazy sister's bullshit
Released a valuable hostage in an incredibly hairbrained scheme that involved sending two people, one of them a woman, across leagues of contested territory and trusting the Lannisters, whom she had been previous telling everyone not to loving trust
Locked Rob into a horrible marriage pact with an rear end in a top hat bannerman to her father who's like two steps above a hedge knight in a holdfast
Didn't counsel Rob properly about noble marriage, i.e. Frey won't give a poo poo if you gently caress twelve girls on top of his daughter if you marry her you moron, just keep a mistress
Contributed to Robb walking right into a trap and getting killed.

So Catelyn basically started Westeros into a death spiral and destroyed her own family. Next!

Daenerys:

Through her idiocy and naivete, killed Drogo, broke up the most powerful Khalasar and destabilized an entire nation
Wandered around aimlessly and straight up murdered a bunch of old dudes because they touched her boob
The whole Mereen thing, I don't want to be here all day.
Is Daenerys
Jorah is totally into her and she, like, broke his heart man

Cersei:

Is directly responsible for the whole Bran thing
Raised a kid who is literally Patrick Bateman to be king
Murdered her husband to hide her incestuous relationship with her twin brother
Is ambitious and spiteful without the ability to back it up, which her siblings clearly possess in abundance

Melisandre:

Convinced Stannis to commit fratricide
Is a crazy murderbitch who likes to burn people alive
Ignores her own magic prophecy powers
Pulled that psychic mindfuck poo poo on Jon with the "you know nothing" thing, not cool, bitch, not cool, Jon was tight with Ygritte and that poo poo's still fresh

Meanwhile, all of the "admirable" female characters are trying to be men, in traditionally male occupations, being tutored by men, with one notable exception. Even they can't escape the curse. Brienne brings nothing but disaster to everyone around her, Sansa is going to end up killing Littlefinger somehow and then screwing something up really bad, and Arya, who is like twelve, by the way, is about to be trained by a cult of assassins to be a killer courtesan. She is literally going to be a twelve year old murder whore who "seduces" men and poisons them or something.

These books are actually terrible.

Oh, and if there's a detailed description of some four hundred pound Braavosi banker who's too fat to walk being sexually serviced by Arya in the next book I'm going to take a giant poo poo in the book and impale it on a yard implement and raise the poo poo book as my standard and declare jihad.

And there will be such a description since GRRM's reaction to pressure from HBO to actually work is to pull a half-assed Thomas Harris and write unfilmable poo poo. Take a good, hard look at Dance and tell me that any of that is going to be on cable television. At least when Harris wrote a "gently caress you" to the studios it had some panache to it.

Thulsa Doom fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Aug 17, 2012

# ? Aug 17, 2012 12:54

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Honestly I did feel that everything past ASOS will make a very poor TV adaptation, I don't think that the show-runners really expect to get past season 4 (or even 3). Charles Dance making GBS threads himself to death will probably be the last event on the TV show. They already ignored GRRM when he told them they shouldn't kill Mago cause he will reoccur in book 6.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 13:03

Thulsa Doom: Jun 20, 2011; Ezekiel 23:20

There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when the series goes off the rails and becomes increasingly generic and poorly plotted, even moreso than the books. When the series is cancelled after the audience favorite character strangles a naked woman to death with a piece of jewelry and murders another audience favorite character on the toilet complete with plopping sound effect as he shits himself, GRRM will die of a massive coronary and the resulting wave of despair across the land will fuel his ascension to daemon prince of Nurgle.

It was his plan all along.

Also they can just replace Mago with some other Dothraki, because there are literally two Dothraki characters, Male Dothraki and Female Dothraki. The entire nation is a racist caricature, much like everything about Essos. Drogo himself is just there to grunt, gently caress Daenerys and later die and send the entire plotline into a meandering death spiral that ends with poo poo sliding upon leaves of grass.

Thulsa Doom fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Aug 17, 2012

# ? Aug 17, 2012 13:09

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Ambiguatron posted:

Drogo himself is just there to grunt, gently caress Daenerys and later die and send the entire plotline into a meandering death spiral that ends with poo poo sliding upon leaves of grass.

Truth and poetry.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 15:19

thornghost: Oct 11, 2010; I have a picture of me with GRRM. He looks less than enthused.

Arbite posted:

Any chance we could get an update on our books progress? The chapter summation hasn't been updated since before I took chapter 20.

Okay, I updated both the Google Doc and and the organizational post with everything that's been posted here so far. PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK MY WORK if you have access to the Google Doc. If you don't, you can get access by emailing agameofbones@gmail.com with your SA username and I'll add you.

Current Stats

Word Count: 30166 (121 manuscript pages)

ALL CHAPTERS HAVE BEEN CLAIMED

Completed Chapters: 13/24

Prologue (Blade_of_tyshalle) COMPLETED
Chapter 1 � Sensa (Dead Man Posting) COMPLETED
Chapter 3 � Kate (bigmcgaffney) COMPLETED
Chapter 4 � Sensa (Cirofren) COMPLETED
Chapter 7 - Sensa [SEX] (Ambiguatron) COMPLETED
Chapter 11 - Kate [SEX] (Shageletic) COMPLETED
Chapter 13 � Ardi (Greatbacon) COMPLETED
Chapter 15 � Sensa [SEX] (Azure_Horizon) COMPLETED
Chapter 16 � Kate (Blade_of_tyshalle) COMPLETED
Chapter 19 � Kate [SEX] (A GLISTENING HODOR) COMPLETED
Chapter 20 � Brendan (Arbite) COMPLETE
Chapter 21 � Sensa (thornghost) COMPLETED
Chapter 23 � Sensa [SEX] Shageletic COMPLETED

Claimed, Incomplete Chapters: 11/24

Chapter 2 � Ardi (SpaceMost)
Chapter 5 � Brendan (geeves)
Chapter 6 - Kate [SEX] (JustFrakkingDoIt)
Chapter 8 � Ardi (1stGear)
Chapter 9 - Sensa [SEX] (IRQ)
Chapter 10 - Brendan [SEX] (Badly Jester)
Chapter 12 � Sensa [SEX] (Undead Unicorn)
Chapter 14 � Brendan (The Mutato)
Chapter 17 � Ardi (my cat is norris)
Chapter 18 � Sensa (Contra Calculus)
Chapter 22 � Ardi (Cirofren)

As you can see, we've passed the halfway point on this. Here's what we're going to do starting now:

If you've claimed a chapter and have not submitted anything, you have one week from today (August 17) to post ANY progress at all on that chapter. After the week is done, your claim is in jeopardy. Anyone who has completed a chapter can, at that point, take over the claim on your chapter.

So if you've claimed but been dragging your feet and still plan on writing, better start putting something down. This is seriously easy once you start. Take a look at everyone's posts who has turned something in. All you have to do is start and the poo poo just starts pouring out like Dany after eating Taco Bell.

Best of luck!

# ? Aug 17, 2012 17:31

Stay Safe: Sep 1, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Mine is still technically incomplete. I'll try this weekend.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 18:22

lobotomy molo: May 7, 2007; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Wait a second... There are chapters without sex? :catstare:

# ? Aug 17, 2012 18:23

The Anime Liker: Aug 8, 2009; by VideoGames

Fly Molo posted:

Wait a second... There are chapters without sex?

There better be a lot of food.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 18:41

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

I think I might be the only doofus that actually posted up 2 chapters. I don't know if I should be proud or horrified. Horrified, yup, horrifiiiied.

EDIT: Forget about you, Blade. Hold me.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 19:37

Greatbacon: Apr 9, 2012; by Pragmatica

Dead Man Posting posted:

Mine is still technically incomplete. I'll try this weekend.

The same for me.

# ? Aug 17, 2012 23:14

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Shageletic posted:

Forget about you, Blade. Hold me.

I'll hold you... hostage? :ohdear:

# ? Aug 17, 2012 23:55

whowhatwhere: Mar 15, 2010; SHINee's back

emanresu tnuocca posted:

I don't think that's fair, GRRM doesn't really do 'moral relativism', by which I mean that while it's clear that some characters live by their own codes and act amorally we are expected to look down upon those characters. At the end of the day the 'good' characters are very liberal and appeal to 20th century moral values.

While some characters point out to Dany that some of the freed slaves are so desperate they seek to sell themselves to slavery again at no point we're supposed to interpret Dany's decisions in her conquest of slaver's bay as immoral, if anything she makes moral decisions which work against her overall goals just because she feels obligated to them.

Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor are evil places, they were spreading evil to the world for 5,000 years, a brief period of political instability and warfare cannot be viewed as too high a price for what Dany was trying to achieve.

Sure, but that "brief" period of political instability and warfare is going to kill the vast majority of the people of Meereen and cause untold suffering across the world as the slaves wreak their vengeance.

It's not about what's ultimately morally correct, it's about the fact that for the rest of Dany's lifetime things are going to be worse than poo poo for most of the world, and she's directly responsible for that. We don't praise the Jacobins because their intentions were on the right side of history.

# ? Aug 18, 2012 00:29

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

I'll hold you... hostage?

What a twist!

# ? Aug 18, 2012 00:54

Azure_Horizon: Mar 27, 2010; by Reene

Pretty GRRMy of a twist, too.

# ? Aug 18, 2012 01:15

Strep Vote: May 5, 2004; أنا أحب حليب الشوكولاتة

This is the best thread for the worst series. As ASOIF's potential is steadily squandered, so this thread grows in might and glory.

Some kind of goddamn vampire thread.

# ? Aug 18, 2012 03:25

The Anime Liker: Aug 8, 2009; by VideoGames

Quantum Finger posted:

This is the best thread for the worst series. As ASOIF's potential is steadily squandered, so this thread grows in might and glory.

Some kind of goddamn vampire thread.

I wouldn't trade our horrible poo poo joke circlejerk for a sequel worthy of a thousand ASOS.

As the GRRM's dick gets shittier, so our thread grows in power.

# ? Aug 18, 2012 03:33

Verdugo: Jan 5, 2009; Lipstick Apathy

Makochuk posted:

It's genuinely sad the ASOIAF video game rights are sold to such lovely companies to dump out essentially shovelware.

What they need to do is release a fighting game in the vein of Marvel vs Street Fighter. But they need to include a Bran-controlled Hodor who plays like the Incredible Hulk.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 03:12

whowhatwhere: Mar 15, 2010; SHINee's back

Hodor: Ultimate Hodor would be the best game ever :allears:

# ? Aug 19, 2012 03:53

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

I would like very much to see Hodor run up the sides of skyscrapers and turn HVAC units into gloves before whaling on a tank squadron.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 05:16

The Anime Liker: Aug 8, 2009; by VideoGames

I prefer the stealth missions with Renly and Loras.

But the Brienne/Jaime escort missions can gently caress right off. :argh:

# ? Aug 19, 2012 06:59

Sophia: Apr 16, 2003; The heart wants what the heart wants.

Renly and Loras stop to pray too often to be useful in stealth missions.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 13:28

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

When Renly and Loras turn themselves to stone to stop the room from collapsing in on the party, though, you'll be glad they came along.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 13:31

Azure_Horizon: Mar 27, 2010; by Reene

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

When Renly and Loras turn themselves to stone to stop the room from collapsing in on the party, though, you'll be glad they came along.

I can totes use Esuna on them, though.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 18:45

Arrrthritis: May 31, 2007; I don't care if you're a star, the moon, or the whole damn sky, you need to come back down to earth and remember where you came from

Azure_Horizon posted:

I can totes use Esuna on them, though.

Just like you can use a phoenix down on Eddard Stark when he dies at the end of disc one. Right.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 21:00

whoflungpoop: Sep 9, 2004; With you and the constellations

Good luck waiting for Pycelle to loving remember Meteo :corsair:

# ? Aug 19, 2012 22:27

thornghost: Oct 11, 2010; I have a picture of me with GRRM. He looks less than enthused.

Better hope you brought along Strong Belwas to the cave of the Children because you can't use metal weapons in there.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 23:43

p.crestmont: Feb 17, 2012

Ugh Dany's levels are like Dragon Age 2 I just can't care about anything going on in this town. The Journey homage end level was fun though collecting berries to shoot through the Dothraki sea propelled by increasing making GBS threads power.

# ? Aug 19, 2012 23:53

Thulsa Doom: Jun 20, 2011; Ezekiel 23:20

The Sansa beating minigame was just trying to outdo "No Russian".

# ? Aug 19, 2012 23:58

Urdnot Fire: Feb 13, 2012

The Davos boating level on the Blackwater was fun until they forced you to crash at the end. I played it many and more times, but I still couldn't save Matthos :smith:

# ? Aug 20, 2012 01:12

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Uh uh my reading experience was just like falling off the Rainbow track on Mario Kart

gently caress

Shageletic fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Aug 20, 2012

# ? Aug 20, 2012 01:12

Azure_Horizon: Mar 27, 2010; by Reene

Arrrthritis posted:

Just like you can use a phoenix down on Eddard Stark when he dies at the end of disc one. Right.

Well I read a FAQ...

# ? Aug 20, 2012 01:32

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 12:54

whowhatwhere: Mar 15, 2010; SHINee's back

I have a friend whose uncle works for GRRM and he told me you can totally get Eddard Stark as a party member on disc 2.

# ? Aug 20, 2012 02:17

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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