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He is a spirit who exists outside the "pantheon". He just is.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:49
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The fact that Peter Jackson cut out Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire, makes me have faith that he knows what he is doing, they could have easily spent an hour on those two thing and would have added nothing
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Aug 27, 2012 20:52
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He's not Illuvatar because Illuvatar is omnipotent while Bombadil is clearly powerful only within his very small realm (which even then won't be strong enough to stand up to Sauron). I don't even think he's one of the Maiar, I guess he just represents nature, which fits because LotR is about industrialisation (yeah yeah no allegory here Mr. T.) as much as anything else.Oasx posted:The fact that Peter Jackson cut out Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire, makes me have faith that he knows what he is doing, they could have easily spent an hour on those two thing and would have added nothing I wanted to see Sam become mayor 7 times.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:55
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Sylink posted:The best theory on bombadil is that he is not a valar but some kind of manifestation of God/Illuvatar and therefore does not interfere/give a poo poo about anything , even though that rule is subtly broken here and there by getting the ring to Bilbo and rezzing Gandalf etc Is it ever explicitly stated that the ring leaving Gollum for Bilbo was Eru acting upon it, or is it just implied?
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Aug 27, 2012 20:55
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Oasx posted:The fact that Peter Jackson cut out Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire, makes me have faith that he knows what he is doing, they could have easily spent an hour on those two thing and would have added nothing I disagree with the Scouring of the Shire. The whole World War allegory and the hobbits winning and returning home to see it their home didn't survive the war is really good. I grant that it would have added a lot to the movie however timewise. I think its a worse thematic loss then Bombadil.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:02
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keep punching joe posted:I wanted to see Sam become mayor 7 times. I wanted to see him taking the ship to the Undying Lands at the end of his life with Legolas and Gimli.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:03
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FrensaGeran posted:Is it ever explicitly stated that the ring leaving Gollum for Bilbo was Eru acting upon it, or is it just implied? The ring did what you mention because it has it's own will and was trying to get out of the underground cave it was in. I can't believe we are spoiler quoting the Hobbit. This specific stuff was discussed in the movie version of LOTR anyway.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:07
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Oasx posted:The fact that Peter Jackson cut out Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire, makes me have faith that he knows what he is doing, they could have easily spent an hour on those two thing and would have added nothing Yet he added/changed stuff that ended up sucking rear end.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:20
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I loved the implication that if they gave the ring to Bombadil, he'd probably just lose it because he gives zero fucks.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:28
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Bombadil rezzed Gandalf? It's been forever since I read the books; when did this happen?
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Aug 27, 2012 21:47
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keep punching joe posted:Bombadil just wants to talk in iambic pentameter, gently caress Goldberry, and be left alone. As awesome as he is, he was too weird for the movies (and would also undermine the dramatic tension as millions of viewers would say... "hey just give the ring to this dude") Bombadil would have been great for a younger Tom Baker. Don't know who'd do him now. And, heck. Who would you cast as Goldberry? Effingham fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 21:59
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Bombadilillo posted:I disagree with the Scouring of the Shire. The whole World War allegory and the hobbits winning and returning home to see it their home didn't survive the war is really good. The other problem is that it reads like Tolkien wanted an excuse to use the word "ruffian" as often as possible.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:00
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Presto posted:The problem with the Scouring is that it's kind of... jarring? You've just read through this whole adventure, the bad guy is defeated, you're waiting for the denouement, and... wait, what? The story is starting up again? I agree. The whole point is that its jarring. It wouldnt work for the movie thats already too long for most audiances. Im really glad they used Sarumans death thought.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:04
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That would be in character. He latched on to certain words all through his career; in the early Silmarillion stories that ended up in the Book of Lost Tales, he never used the word "go" when he could use "fare" instead. I get what he was trying to do, but it made everything sound weird as hell. Right up there with "Farmer Maggot" and PRAISE THEM WITH GREAT PRAISE
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Aug 27, 2012 22:07
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Bombadilillo posted:Im really glad they used Sarumans death thought. The best part about it was Christopher Lee explaining how he knows exactly what it sounds like when someone is stabbed in the back. 
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Aug 27, 2012 22:13
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Presto posted:They only used Saruman's death in the extended cut, which is one of the only places where I think they really botched the theatrical version. They whined in the documentaries about how they just couldn't make the scene work, which I think is bullshit. Oh wow, I didnt ever realize. Haven't seen the theatrical since the ext. came out. Really should have been in there. Killing off the villain of movie 2 at the star of the 3rd its weird. See also Star Wars Episode 3. And yeah the Christopher Lee...for people who don't know he was British secret service stuff in WW2. For real. Peter Jackson: "Ok he's going to stab you and I want you to-" Christopher Lee: "Peter do you know what it sounds like when someone is stabbed in the back? They make a sucking sound as all their breathe escapes."  Peter Jackson: "OK, you just do it like that then..."Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 22:15
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That's why Christopher Lee was pissed and didn't attend the premiere. He got edited out of a Best Picture.
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Aug 27, 2012 23:04
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Yeah but he's back, baby. I was so excited to see him pop up at the end of one of the production diaries in full costumes, raising an eyebrow at the presence of "that silly man". 
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Aug 28, 2012 00:01
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It's going to be such a loss when Sir Christopher goes. Hard to believe he's 90.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:18
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Presto posted:They only used Saruman's death in the extended cut, which is one of the only places where I think they really botched the theatrical version. They whined in the documentaries about how they just couldn't make the scene work, which I think is bullshit. Sad too, because it was one of my favorite parts of the book. In the book Gandalf and Saruman have a long conversation, and between them the hearts of the men, dwarves, and hobbits around them are caught in a tug of war. In the book they are swayed by Saruman's powerful voice, and then by Gandalf's, with Gandalf winning in the end. The movie downplays the real tension in the scene, and that is that Gandalf doesn't want to confront Saruman because he fears that Saruman might be still powerful enough to turn his friends against him.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:28
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Perhaps one of the most powerful moments in the books for me is when Saruman turns and begins walking back into Orthanc, and Gandalf declares,"Saruman. I have not given you leave to go." and Saruman is forcibly turned back around. It's the moment when Saruman's spell over everybody is well and truly broken, and they all see him for a weak old man and not an overwhelming force of power. Even so, it's revealed towards the end of Return of the King that he had enough cunning left to eventually convince Treebeard to let him go, but by that point he's a pale shadow of what he used to be.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:41
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There is no way you could adequately film that; the magical tone of the voice.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:45
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I only ever watched the 3 EE movies (in 24hours, this weekend), how did they wrap up the story of Saruman in the Theatrical version if they didn't have the Isengard tower scene in it? I was hoping to see Wormtounge lob the Palantir at Gandalf and get sorceror-bollocked for it, as well 
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Aug 28, 2012 00:50
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NoneMoreNegative posted:I only ever watched the 3 EE movies (in 24hours, this weekend), how did they wrap up the story of Saruman in the Theatrical version if they didn't have the Isengard tower scene in it? Gandalf: "Saruman is safely locked in his tower. He will be no threat anymore." Pippin: "Hey I found this glowy orb in the water!"
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Aug 28, 2012 00:54
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In the theatrical version you get something like 5 seconds of Gandalf and Theoden walking away from Orthanc and Gandalf saying,"Saruman is locked in his tower, there he shall remain." If I remember right, that's literally all there is to it. He doesn't appear or get referenced for the rest of the movie. It did really bother me in the theatrical version, but I honestly haven't watched the theatrical cut since the day I finally got the last of the extended editions. Those are the movies I watch every time now, I consider them the "actual" LOTR movies.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:54
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 If I'd been Christopher Lee I'd have been looking for my stabbin' knife as well...
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Aug 28, 2012 01:01
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kiimo posted:I'm not saying Bombadil is hippy because of Tolkien, but all the art of him is. I hate hippy Tom Bombadil. I like hippy Tom and his mushroom gathering ways. All the hippy-esq brewing, smoking, woods wondering, etc. stuff really gives LOTR a nice texture and Bombadil fits into that in a very elegant fashion.
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Aug 28, 2012 01:45
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keep punching joe posted:He's not Illuvatar because Illuvatar is omnipotent while Bombadil is clearly powerful only within his very small realm (which even then won't be strong enough to stand up to Sauron). I don't even think he's one of the Maiar, I guess he just represents nature, which fits because LotR is about industrialisation (yeah yeah no allegory here Mr. T.) as much as anything else. Thats why I always interpreted it as a manifestation and sort of an aspect of Illuvatar (like nature as you suggested) and he is purposely self limited so that he can both take part in his creation without altering it.
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Aug 28, 2012 02:25
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Why can't he just be a nature spirit? I guess it doesn't really matter either way, I just feel like nothing is really added by him being Illuvatar.
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Aug 28, 2012 02:55
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Presto posted:The problem with the Scouring is that it's kind of... jarring? You've just read through this whole adventure, the bad guy is defeated, you're waiting for the denouement, and... wait, what? The story is starting up again? Plus it would have been dozens of midgets fighting bandits. It would have looked ridiculous. It was my favorite part of the books growing up too, but cutting it was a smart decision.
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Aug 28, 2012 10:11
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Gweenz posted:Sad too, because it was one of my favorite parts of the book. In the book Gandalf and Saruman have a long conversation, and between them the hearts of the men, dwarves, and hobbits around them are caught in a tug of war. In the book they are swayed by Saruman's powerful voice, and then by Gandalf's, with Gandalf winning in the end. The movie downplays the real tension in the scene, and that is that Gandalf doesn't want to confront Saruman because he fears that Saruman might be still powerful enough to turn his friends against him. This is another bit I love in the book, but even in the extended cut it really sags, for various reasons. It comes across very D&D tv movie in its execution.
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Aug 28, 2012 10:14
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kiimo posted:I wanted to see him taking the ship to the Undying Lands at the end of his life with Legolas and Gimli. Calling it now: I totally think they'll do this in the epilogue to the third movie.
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Aug 28, 2012 11:55
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euphronius posted:The Ghost army was so dumb and bad. I was - as a viewer - so exhausted by that point it didn't really matter to me though. Looking back on it it is the weakest part of the whole thing. I didn't mind the army so much as the ridiculous avalanche of skulls in the mountain. I remember sitting in the theatre choking back laughter and being thoroughly amazed that no one else seemed to find it hilariously over the top.
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Aug 28, 2012 12:13
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Der Luftwaffle posted:I didn't mind the army so much as the ridiculous avalanche of skulls in the mountain. I remember sitting in the theatre choking back laughter and being thoroughly amazed that no one else seemed to find it hilariously over the top. That scene was in the EE right?
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Aug 28, 2012 12:17
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Viridiant posted:Why can't he just be a nature spirit? I guess it doesn't really matter either way, I just feel like nothing is really added by him being Illuvatar. I just think its a neat idea but according to this weird essay I found Tolkien specifically denies that he is God but this is interesting anyway for you nerds. http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html Him being a Valar makes more sense if anything besides the weird nature theory.
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Aug 28, 2012 14:17
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Trump posted:That scene was in the EE right? Yeah. Alot of the stuff that people doesn't like seems to be in the EE.
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Aug 28, 2012 15:34
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Alhazred posted:Yeah. Alot of the stuff that people doesn't like seems to be in the EE. This is why I judge the quality of the films on the theatrical editions alone. A lot of the EE scenes were cut from the theatricals simply because they are just a bit crap.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:32
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Christopher Lee is such an awesome dude and actor. You know what? I'm going to go watch his entire filmography.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:38
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:This is why I judge the quality of the films on the theatrical editions alone. A lot of the EE scenes were cut from the theatricals simply because they are just a bit crap. ROTK is the worst of it. I think FOTR and TTT Extended are good movies by themselves. Return of the King's EE is so drat long and just filled with crap it didn't need. I was thrilled when the marathon my theater hosted decided to show the theatrical cut of ROTK.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:51
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:ROTK is the worst of it. I think FOTR and TTT Extended are good movies by themselves. Return of the King's EE is so drat long and just filled with crap it didn't need. I was thrilled when the marathon my theater hosted decided to show the theatrical cut of ROTK. My preference would be to show the theatrical version but to include the Mouth of Sauron. That was awesome.
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Aug 28, 2012 18:19
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