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Marquis de Pyro posted:It doesn't target, it's slow, it doesn't do much damage, and it drains your shields. Hell yeah. I'm sure it does fine if you're just speed running and crushing spawn points, but then you should just be going batarian and inferno grenading/punching everything anyway Look you clearly have no idea what you're talking about so you may want to stop arguing and start listening. Phase Disruptor is great. It doesn't target but neither do guns and people seem to make a go of them don't they? It's slow? WTF? Compared to what? It does plenty of damage for an area of effect power with no cooldown. Yes it drains shields but so does Nova, you're playing a Vanguard surely you can think of some way to get your shields back. I play my Slayer on Gold and it's great for general play not just speed running spawns. If you don't like the class or just suck at it that's fine but that's you and not the class.
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Aug 27, 2012 18:37
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Yeah, I hate Phase Disruptor too, but that's because I can never get the hang of getting more than one shot off without getting the rest of my shields shredded off at the same time (preventing a second shot), unless I'm at extreme range. Novaguards have a definite advantage in the invincibility frames, but Slayers can do it from any range, so you can just take potshots from cover (if you don't suck at it like I do) if you want to, to balance it out.
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Aug 27, 2012 19:46
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LOVE playing as a Vorcha with pubs who insist on murdering the guys I'm in the process of killing to keep my Bloodlust up.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:08
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Watching Phantoms do somersaults into a meatgrinder with that jaunty tune in the background is just the funniest thing
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Aug 27, 2012 20:17
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Felinoid posted:Novaguards have a definite advantage in the invincibility frames This does require a good host of course, like most Charge related things.  Edit: Changed some wording to be more accurate. Exodee fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 20:38
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Am I allowed to gloat because I said slayer was awesome weeks ago and everyone shut me down? Because I'm totally going to do that.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:51
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Am I allowed to gloat because I said slayer was awesome weeks ago and everyone shut me down? Because I'm totally going to do that. You're only allowed to gloat if you post Youtubes with jaunty musical backgrounds. Mr Dog knows what's up.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:52
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Exodee posted:The Slayer's non-heavy melee attacks are a pretty good substitute for this, actually. You can go Melee -> Melee -> Melee -> Move back (if you don't do this the game won't let you Charge until it's too late) and Charge while being unhittable all this time. The fact that his melee chain (and thus invincibility) takes fairly long gives you plenty of time to find your next Charge target and regain your shields. It's not invincibility so much as insane DR, as you'll notice tiny slivers coming off your barrier. It also requires you not to get hit by anything that staggers, because the moment you do, all that stuff that was taking off slivers will shred you while you're reeling. You can't do that around something with an insta-kill either, as while Novaguards can move while Novaing, Slayer melee attacks push you in a specific direction, which you can't change mid-chain (especially annoying on the odd occasion you don't lock onto the enemy properly).
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Aug 27, 2012 21:17
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Elotana posted:The key is to aim at floors or walls unless you're sniping stuff from almost across the map. Also, if you're just learning Gold with it, backflip after charging more and only PD 1-2 times instead of 2-3 times until you can judge hectic situations better. Sounds good. What do you do between PD and charge? Shoot guns? Light melee?
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Aug 27, 2012 21:19
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LogicNinja posted:Sounds good.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:20
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An anecdote about player skill vs. class quality: when I used to play Super Smash Brothers Brawl on the Wii years ago, I noticed that I won lots of games as Meta Knight and didn't win as many with Ganondorf. I simply thought it was because I synced well with MK and not so well with Ganondorf. Years later I met a top-tier SSBB player and I found out that MK is banned from official tournaments because he's way overpowered and Ganondorf is a damned joke. The point of this story is that sometimes, sonny, the character or skill you claim to be lovely is actually really good and you just suck. Exodee posted:The Slayer's non-heavy melee attacks are a pretty good substitute for this, actually. You can go Melee -> Melee -> Melee -> Move back (if you don't do this the game won't let you Charge until it's too late) and Charge while being unhittable all this time. The fact that his melee chain (and thus invincibility) takes fairly long gives you plenty of time to find your next Charge target and regain your shields. wait what what WHAT. There are invincibility frames for the Slayer's melee? I really gotta check this poo poo out... Edit: Oh, it's just good DR. kalel fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 21:20
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Nothing, if you can help it. ABC. There's a reason Elotana was rocking an Eagle in that video. There's a gap between 2 PD shots and when Charge cools down. I was carrying a Piranha; I guess -170% cooldown isn't enough? Carnifex it is, I guess. Would an Acolyte be worthwhile for stripping Atlas shields &etc?
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Aug 27, 2012 21:31
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Felinoid posted:It's not invincibility so much as insane DR, as you'll notice tiny slivers coming off your barrier. It also requires you not to get hit by anything that staggers, because the moment you do, all that stuff that was taking off slivers will shred you while you're reeling. You can't do that around something with an insta-kill either, as while Novaguards can move while Novaing, Slayer melee attacks push you in a specific direction, which you can't change mid-chain (especially annoying on the odd occasion you don't lock onto the enemy properly).
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Aug 27, 2012 21:33
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LogicNinja posted:There's a gap between 2 PD shots and when Charge cools down. I was carrying a Piranha; I guess -170% cooldown isn't enough?
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Aug 27, 2012 21:34
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The Piranha Slayer is good for a smaller map like Glacier, but on something like Ghost or Hydra I'd be running with fast cooldowns and firing the Phase Disruptor from a distance before charging in.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:37
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LogicNinja posted:Would an Acolyte be worthwhile for stripping Atlas shields &etc? You should take the shield damage evolution on PD so you can handle shielded mooks easier. The slayer isn't a boss killer so play to your strengths. That doesn't mean you cant help out with the big stuff of course, but I find the slayer most effective when you concentrate on keeping marauders and nemeses off your team-mates backs. Pumpking fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 21:51
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LogicNinja posted:There's a gap between 2 PD shots and when Charge cools down. I was carrying a Piranha; I guess -170% cooldown isn't enough? If you've got gap time between PD and Charge, then shoot after your charge and before your PD, you want to keep your shields up as much as you can.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:55
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Exodee posted:Yeah, the staggers are a problem when they hit you in between combos, but that's why it's only a mere "substitute" instead of something to base an entire build around like with Nova. I have been able to tank Turrets and even Primes fairly effectively with it though (on Gold, wouldn't dare taking these on like that on Plat), so it's a good fallback option for when you're out in the open and don't think you can get to cover in time. You don't even need a target for it, I believe. Yeah, though I'm not sure what situations that'd be particularly useful for, considering they can knock you out of the combo. Hunters stagger, Primes stagger, Rockets stagger, Pyros you may as well be hitting them because they're close enough, Phantoms you don't want to be sitting around, Altas rockets stagger, volume of simple fire could lead to someone coming up and staggering you with melee...I suppose if you're surprised by a Turret or Ravager while Charge is still on cooldown?
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Aug 27, 2012 21:56
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Felinoid posted:Yeah, though I'm not sure what situations that'd be particularly useful for, considering they can knock you out of the combo. Hunters stagger, Primes stagger, Rockets stagger, Pyros you may as well be hitting them because they're close enough, Phantoms you don't want to be sitting around, Altas rockets stagger, volume of simple fire could lead to someone coming up and staggering you with melee...I suppose if you're surprised by a Turret or Ravager while Charge is still on cooldown? It's also fun as heck to solo the first few waves while doing this over and over, before Brutes and Phantoms and the like start showing up and you have to rely on your other skills some more.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:12
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yeah, I just specced up a fresh Stabguard and god drat you guys are right, I haven't had that much fun playing this game in a long-rear end time. It's like playing a Shadow on PCP. Area Charge and especially Area PD made for a night-and-day difference to how the class plays, and it actually requires some quick reflexes and decision making to play effectively, too. The only thing I don't like is that getting melee to work right is really hard. It doesn't seem to lock on at all, you have to point yourself in the right direction. Except when it does and you teleport about 20m to tear someone's face off.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:26
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Synonamess Botch posted:If you've got gap time between PD and Charge, then shoot after your charge and before your PD, you want to keep your shields up as much as you can. This. You want charge to be ready the second your 2nd PD shot is finished. Also the Acolyte will get you killed as a Vanguard when fighting Cerberus. You want a gun with piercing out at all times to deal with Guardians, I use a Tempest but the Carnifex should work fine too. Edit: I'm trying out PD with extra damage instead of area and the anti-armor evolutions after the weekend promotion. It seems good so far but I'll update once I've had a chance to play with it a bit more. Lagomorphic fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 22:35
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Lagomorphic posted:This. You want charge to be ready the second your 2nd PD shot is finished. This. I love the acolyte for its shield piercing, but it shouldn't be your only gun for any class. The lightweight mod can let you keep both a tempest and the acolyte with 200% recharge.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:44
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Had a weird glitch or something where on the 10th wave I suddenly became virtually invincible. My teammates had all been downed, mostly from bullshit instakills, and I was just running around finishing the objective and extremely slowly working through the enemies (SalInf honestly doesn't feel very powerful to me right now) but nothing was doing any damage. Occasionally I would take a sliver of damage from something, but nothing major, and this went so far as to make me survive a Banshee instakill. As soon as the wave ended I started taking damage again as normal. It was really weird and felt like someone else put a hack on me.quote:An anecdote about player skill vs. class quality: when I used to play Super Smash Brothers Brawl on the Wii years ago, I noticed that I won lots of games as Meta Knight and didn't win as many with Ganondorf. I simply thought it was because I synced well with MK and not so well with Ganondorf. Years later I met a top-tier SSBB player and I found out that MK is banned from official tournaments because he's way overpowered and Ganondorf is a damned joke. Your example doesn't really apply, because by its logic he should be doing well with the overpowered classes and bad with the weaker ones. Your experience says that the quality of the class has more to do with performance than neutral skill, and you're saying the opposite.
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Aug 27, 2012 23:16
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Marquis de Pyro posted:edit: I had the same problem randomly dying while charging with the N7 Shadow's sword charge thing (only much worse) so maybe it was just a lag issue or something though.
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Aug 27, 2012 23:44
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If you don't want to gimmick it up with the Eagle then just carry whatever you typically carry for your caster characters. I was using the Tempest for a while and doing okay, the new 90% piercing mod for SMGs works great for Guardians. Re: Novaguard, I agree that Nova's invuln frames are better from a pure tanking standpoint but Phase's stagger-tanking is adequate and gives you flexibility to operate at different ranges, while Novaguards are more one-note. Re: Class balance, I'm kind of OCD about giving all classes a try in multiplayer games since it keeps things fresh, so I'd like to think it's skill  Before the recent buff my most-played Vanguard was Drell
Elotana fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Aug 28, 2012 |
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Aug 28, 2012 00:05
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I've decided to give up PSPs for the time being, due to a combination of horseshit luck (Indra III! ) and a complete lack of consumables. What's the best thing to buy to stock up on Medigel? It kinda sucks not being able to revive myself in Gold matches, let me tell you.Oh, and in response to my way, way far-back pleads for help, thank you Elotana for the build advice. Krogan Soldier with a Falcon may not be my best class, but I'll be damned if running through chains of explosions and gibs while headbanging isn't the best way to spend a match.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:19
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Best part about having a Falcon is giving zero fucks about Phantoms. On the later waves of Gold I'll specifically look for the multiple-Phantom spawns so I can troll them FOR TUCHANKA
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Aug 28, 2012 00:25
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Kraven Moorhed posted:I've decided to give up PSPs for the time being, due to a combination of horseshit luck (Indra III! There's something wrong with you if you don't like the Indra.  Also, JEPs give you AT LEAST 5 medigels guaranteed.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:54
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Exodee posted:I don't know, I haven't had any problems doing this against Hunters, Pyros, Rocket Troopers, etc., since you're going to be the one that staggers them, both with your charge as well as your melee attacks. One on one, yeah. They'll be dead before they can mount a defense (though Hunters can cheat sometimes, it doesn't usually help them). Even one on three you can do because of Area Charge. I'm just saying don't count on it to save you from big groups or something you weren't prepared for, because things you aren't locking down can ruin your attempt and subsequently your self.
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Aug 28, 2012 01:01
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I got a Typhoon today and tried it out on my Turian Soldier (The Best Class), I really didn't like how it felt compared to the Tempest though. Am I just doing something wrong? Could just be my personal preference though. I need to stop buying PSPs for a bit too, I don't have piercing mods for anything other than the shotgun, I think.
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Aug 28, 2012 02:47
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I have been playing for about a month now on the 360 and I'm having a blast. I was getting frustrated until, in the past week, I unlocked Harrier, Piranha, Typhoon (haven't used yet), N7 Paladin, and a couple other Rare/UR. Now I'm MOTIVATED. I can comfortably play Silver with my Krogan Sentinel. (or Turian, but I prefer the beastly yelling) Lift grenades may not be as powerful at others, but they have the best sound effect. No Incinerate so I can carry whatever I want. This might be incredibly stupid but it's worked so far. With decent teammates I can take second easily, and occasionally take first on the maps with good grenade resupply. It's going to take a while to gear up for Gold, but I'm prepared to put in the work. I understand the packs are randomly generated, but is there a good strategy for leveling guns? SPs only? PSPs every other time? I feel like these kids don't take me seriously when I've got lvl 1 guns! Of course I outscore them seven times out of ten. 
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Aug 28, 2012 03:31
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Gestalt Intellect posted:Your example doesn't really apply, because by its logic he should be doing well with the overpowered classes and bad with the weaker ones. Your experience says that the quality of the class has more to do with performance than neutral skill, and you're saying the opposite. Right, reading that back I realize it didn't make sense. I left out an important part of the story: SciFiDownBeat posted:An anecdote about player skill vs. class quality: when I used to play Super Smash Brothers Brawl on the Wii years ago, I noticed that I won lots of games as Meta Knight and didn't win as many with Ganondorf. I simply thought it was because I synced well with MK and not so well with Ganondorf. Years later I met a top-tier SSBB player and I found out that MK is banned from official tournaments because he's way overpowered and Ganondorf is a damned joke. So the point of the story was supposed to be that while some classes may be easy to use (Kroguard, MK) and some are lovely (Drellguard, Ganondorf), almost everything in between is fair game. You might suck with the Slayer simply because the playstyle required for the class isn't your thing. In order to get good at the Slayer you might have to unlearn the tactics you've learned to use with, say, the Krogan Soldier.
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Aug 28, 2012 04:28
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well these PSPs just aren't going to give me a Shadow but I guess I'll do one more before going back to VPs Densified Ammunition N7 Typhoon N7 Destroyer  Well then. Even gave me a perfect weapon to use with it.
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Aug 28, 2012 05:37
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I unlocked a Talon tonight and took it for a spin on my Fury in place of the usual Guardian-buster Carnifex, and I... wasn't that impressed? It does decent damage per shot, I suppose, but it weighs more, has very little ammo capacity, and that recoil is ridiculous. Maybe it was just colored by the test match consisting of being thrown into a London Reapers game, but I really wasn't feeling it.
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Aug 28, 2012 08:05
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Did you try it with Scope + Piercing? That's pretty much the optimal combination, especially if you can get headshots. I've been running that as my Destroyer's sidearm, it's a little ridiculous just how many guys I waste with it.
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Aug 28, 2012 08:31
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VJeff posted:Did you try it with Scope + Piercing?
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Aug 28, 2012 08:36
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Well, it's all about what stuff you consider important. Me, I'm just not that big a fan of the Typhoon because of the spin-up. You might like it better with magazine capacity and pistol ultralights, that's what I tried when I used it with my Fury (I liked it, but I do switch between the Talon, Carnifex and Tempest on that class). Meanwhile, I went into a game of Gold, and was met with a bunch of weird placeholder symbols and a complete inability to move a few minutes ago. Then, when I got revived on the second wave (because I died in about five seconds), this is what I saw.    It never fails. Every time I start to get into a groove with this game, it throws me a curveball. So glad I used a bunch of level 3 consumables just for this to happen. 
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Aug 28, 2012 08:45
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Felinoid posted:One on one, yeah. They'll be dead before they can mount a defense (though Hunters can cheat sometimes, it doesn't usually help them). Even one on three you can do because of Area Charge. I'm just saying don't count on it to save you from big groups or something you weren't prepared for, because things you aren't locking down can ruin your attempt and subsequently your self. Things that actually stagger you like a Brute or Prime's melee attack are still a problem of course, and you'll still go down if you had a sliver of health left in the first place, but that's why you shouldn't try using it when you're caught in the center hack zone on Firebase Goddess or Londen or something and everyone has their attention on you. It's merely another tool in the Slayer's arsenal that shouldn't be overlooked is what I'm saying, and it's great to keep everything staggered after some Disruptor shots and a Charge.
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Aug 28, 2012 11:58
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Paracelsus posted:I unlocked a Talon tonight and took it for a spin on my Fury in place of the usual Guardian-buster Carnifex, and I... wasn't that impressed? It does decent damage per shot, I suppose, but it weighs more, has very little ammo capacity, and that recoil is ridiculous. Maybe it was just colored by the test match consisting of being thrown into a London Reapers game, but I really wasn't feeling it. People jumped down my throat a while back for having a Talon V that I never ever use but it never really set my world on fire. It's in a weird spot; it's heavy enough that it hurts cooldowns on caster classes, and it doesn't have the kind of monstrous DPS that the Harrier, Reegar, and Piranha have that you need on shooter classes (don't even get me started on the Piranha being caster-light on top of it, I stopped using my Piranha X long ago because it just got boring winning all the time), and weapon switching takes so goddamn long that when you really need to switch to a situational weapon right the gently caress now you'll get killed halfway through the animation, so I can't think of a single weapon that works well as a situational gun except maybe the Reegar. Basically the Piranha still makes like 70% of the armory obsolete is what I'm trying to say.
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Aug 28, 2012 12:31
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I think the main thing that makes the Talon useful is its +50% damage bonus to shields/barriers that it has for some reason. It's also light enough that you can carry it around with a ~200% cooldown bonus on, say, a Drell Adept. Still, I prefer the Paladin for this purpose, since it has a much longer effective range (even compared to a scoped Talon), doesn't have so much recoil and is much better for headshotting in general. But yeah, the Talon isn't really a substitute for something like the Piranha. It's a good shield/barrier stripper with decent damage output, but isn't really powerful enough for weapon-based classes.
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Aug 28, 2012 13:05
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