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TychoCelchuuu posted:Well, yeah, if you donate to a project that is literally "I will make videos that will be released starting at this point in time" I think it's a little unreasonable to start whining about not getting stuff other than the videos at their appointed release date. I was trying to make a point about entitlement. If you pledged to her, you pledged for videos. Not for a bunch of twitter updates. Part of the entitlement factor comes from the language that Kickstarter uses and the model that most projects follow in order to draw people to them. Note, for example, that Kickstarter never uses the word "donate" on any of its pages; the preferred terms are "backing" and "funding", which have connotations of long-term investment rather than one-and-done charity. If the money changing hands in a Kickstarter were characterized as straight-up donation, then those giving money would really have no entitlement to follow-ups or acknowledgement -- but less money would be coming in, too. If it were characterized as investment or hiring someone, then those giving money would in most cases rightfully expect regular updates and reports. As it stands, Kickstarters tend to be in a grey area where they use the inducement and enticement of feeling like an investment without any of the binding responsibilities that actually come with investment. I don't know the substance of Sarkeesian's backer updates, but in general any paid researcher or journalist would be expected, as a matter of form, to provide regular progress reports to their supervisor or editor. A random person who sent in a couple of bucks would clearly not qualify, but what responsibilities (none of them binding, of course, with the Kickstarter model, but here I'm talking about about the grey area of etiquette and best practices) would one have to an aggregate of such? That is, I wouldn't necessarily dismiss someone asking about updates as entitlement "through the loving roof" as the whole Kickstarter model is designed to push that button in people in order to get more money in the first place. If the scrutiny on her seems greater, though, it's likely due to a double standard based on the fact she doesn't have the hero-worship/nostalgia/pandering factor that a lot of other games-related Kickstarters have going for them. And of course someone not only leaking confidential information to a hostile group, but also blatantly misrepresenting that information in a purely inflammatory way, as in the example quoted earlier, is beyond reprehensible. CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 30, 2012 |
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Sep 30, 2012 19:35
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^^^_ There isn't greater scrutiny about this broad's Project , there's other people asking the same about the ouya and other games. Id like to know that my donations where being used responsibly. Its not at all entitlement but basic fiscal accountability. ipaid10buxforthis fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Sep 30, 2012 |
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Sep 30, 2012 20:02
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Cool use of "broad."
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Sep 30, 2012 20:17
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epitasis posted:Cool use of "broad." Welcome to southy. Enjoy our fresh seafood.
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Sep 30, 2012 20:21
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'this broad'? 
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Sep 30, 2012 20:22
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Broad takes on a much less dismissive tone in New England dialects, you guys can put away your dog whistles.
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Sep 30, 2012 20:25
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Monthly status reports would be nice, but I'm not sure how they are necessary or how not providing them is doing a disservice to anyone. The main result she'd get from them is that they'd remind assholes that her project exists and get them all riled up again, so why not just wait until she has a finished product? E: Oh, the last update was on Sep 2, so it hasn't even been a month yet. 
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Sep 30, 2012 20:31
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They're gonna get all pissy no matter what the gently caress she does, might as well assauge the fears of the people who actually supported her instead of sort-of-kind-of bowing to the pressure of /v/ or whatever.
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Sep 30, 2012 20:33
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AllanGordon posted:I think a little entitlement is given due to the fact that she got this backed by kickstarter funds. Jesus dude a loving blog post isn't twitsting any arms or anything. Is it really too much to ask for monthly blog posts. Do I really need to check my privilege? If I put money into any project I would expect monthly updates.
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Sep 30, 2012 20:46
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ZackHoagie posted:They're gonna get all pissy no matter what the gently caress she does, might as well assauge the fears of the people who actually supported her instead of sort-of-kind-of bowing to the pressure of /v/ or whatever. Sarkeesian has fallen silent after a campaign of MRAsshole harassment, but when she puts up her series of videos on the internet where anyone and everyone can see them she's going to get far worse and she must know that - she's not a stupid woman. It's not stupid to worry that she may be backing out over concerns for her own personal safety. I would hope she wouldn't, because then the dickheads win, but I'm not sure I could blame her if she did.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:22
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ipaid10buxforthis posted:^^^_ I can understand wanting your donation to be used responsibly but really, does it matter if you get tiny content-less updates that indicate that this is the case? Like, first of all, if she had run off with the money, she could still tweet "working on the script" and you'd be just as hosed. Second, if she is working on the script, why does it matter whether you know it or not? It's not like you can change your mind and get your money back. A responsible use of your money is giving you what she said she would give you. She said she would give you some videos where she talks about boobs and video games and stuff, and she said she'd start giving them to you at a point in time that has not yet come to pass. Until she misses her vague deadline or otherwise fucks up, I'm not sure what you have to complain about.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:22
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TychoCelchuuu posted:Like, first of all, if she had run off with the money, she could still tweet "working on the script" and you'd be just as hosed. No one is making that argument though. If she misses a deadline without saying anything then that's unprofessional. Like it isn't something outrageous to expect regular updates. The only thing that is being said is that she is handling this fairly unprofessionally. People shouldn't be expected to search through the loving kickstarter comments to find some kind of update. I don't know why you're so keen on her not posting any updates at all. Just seems a really weird thing to argue for.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:37
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AllanGordon posted:I don't know why you're so keen on her not posting any updates at all. Just seems a really weird thing to argue for. No one is keen for her not to post updates. What several people have pointed out though is that the extreme harassment she faced regarding the project provides a very compelling reason why she would be reluctant to frequently and openly post about how her project is doing. Many people, if they'd received a fraction of the harassment she did would probably stop posting on the net altogether so as to to not give the vile people who attacked them an excuse to keep doing so. That she has kept on with the project at all in light of such awfulness is an amazing achievement. Perhaps you should be angry at the misogynists who were so unpleasant to her for reducing the amount she communicates rather than questioning her professionalism.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:48
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AllanGordon posted:No one is making that argument though. If she misses a deadline without saying anything then that's unprofessional. Like it isn't something outrageous to expect regular updates. If you're so anal about wanting to get weekly tweets about the progress towards whatever goal is in the future, you should reserve your pledges for things like Double Fine's game or Planetary Annihilation where you get an entire loving documentary on the process. Sarkeesian's Kickstarter was for a bunch of videos about tropes in videogames and until she fails to deliver any of that I think people might be better served easing up on the entitlement and letting her go a little less than a month without worrying that she's taken the money and headed off to Sweden to live in bliss and never make your precious videos.
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Sep 30, 2012 22:03
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AllanGordon posted:The only thing that is being said is that she is handling this fairly unprofessionally. People shouldn't be expected to search through the loving kickstarter comments to find some kind of update. Imagine every time you posted on this forum, you received a torrent of abuse through your PMs, facebook and twitter. You try blocking it out but lets get real here, the abuse you receive is often full of violent language, completely clogs up your facebook and twitter, and fills you with anxiety. That anxiety is paralyzing, it's hard to function when you receive bad responses, especially ones that take the form of personal attacks. She's better off being productive and not feeding the trolls who are doing nothing more than robbing her of time and progress. You'd be hesitant to update frequently too if this was the reception you received every time you posted something.
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Oct 1, 2012 00:12
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Maluco Marinero posted:That anxiety is paralyzing, it's hard to function when you receive bad responses, especially ones that take the form of personal attacks. You're assuming a lot here about the emotional state of the person affected, especially because you're using 'you.' I mean, the invective doesn't have to be causing emotional damage and anxiety for it to be objectionable. It's quite possible she just doesn't want to deal with it, which is her right. I'm want to be clear that I'm not white-knighting just her, either. I think it's nice when the Kickstarters I've funded keep me in the loop, but I only start to get tetchy when they don't deliver on the things they say they will. I find that I'm just skimming most updates for all of 'em these days, because the extent of them is usually just 'hey we're working on stuff.' I mean, Zombie Playground had an update on Jul 15th and one on August 31st after getting funded on June 26th. The first to announce paypal donations, and the second with a bit of nuts and bolts talk. I didn't read the first, and I did skim the second one but it wasn't a big deal. If I hadn't gotten anything at all, I don't think it'd make a difference to me one way or another.
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Oct 1, 2012 00:33
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You're right, I'm more or less projecting how I imagine how I would feel, but that's pretty much the only way to empathize, right? Either way dealing with it is time consuming and not productive, as these people really have no interest in supporting or being a part of the final product. On that we can agree that it is entirely her right to not feed the trolls and stick to updates of substance.
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Oct 1, 2012 00:38
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I've had that kind of thing happen to me. Yeah, it definitely sucks, and it makes you gunshy about releasing anything further. You don't stop entirely, but you do start second-guessing yourself and polishing what you release a lot longer. ... but, could we get back to Kickstarter stuff? There are better threads and forums for that particular debate. EDIT: Oh lord, Operation: Make Stuff actually funded. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Oct 1, 2012 |
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Oct 1, 2012 00:45
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BF Games have released a new Project Giana trailer with new stages and bosses. It's starting to look really good now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UClNHo0Gp7Y
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Oct 2, 2012 17:52
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Oh god. That game is so going to kick my rear end.
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Oct 2, 2012 17:57
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Project Obsidian is going to set records, looks like. It's trending to 4mil without assuming the usual end of drive push, and they're certainly managing it well enough to inspire said push. ... and Project Giana does look really cool. Still not sure how well the flipping will actually play, but it at least looks fun.
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Oct 2, 2012 20:39
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I've been fascinated with the explosion in kickstarting video games, but I'm really curious as to who these $10k backers are exactly. I know that Notch has contributed to a few projects around that level using his Minecraft hoard. Has anyone done a profile or some sort of these people that apparently have money to burn? I'm seriously imagining them as lonely cheetos-eating nerds that got rich from their CS-related job and have no kids or other hobbies to spend money on.
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Oct 2, 2012 21:19
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Shalinor posted:Project Obsidian is going to set records, looks like. It's trending to 4mil without assuming the usual end of drive push, and they're certainly managing it well enough to inspire said push. It's actually trending to like 3 million, it's slowed down a bit I fear. Everyone go donate and/or donate more than you already have! It's Obsidian, drat it! Their donor base is smaller than Double Fine's was at the same point, but their donors appear to be more devoted. I still think 4 million is attainable and should be the ultimate goal. Note for these first two that Obsidian did a shorter funding period so they'll actually stop at like Day 32, I think: Backers:  Funding:  Projection:  (thanks to fermun in the PE thread for the first two) edit: I guess I forgot that they're only introducing Paypal on Wednesday so that should boost numbers some, though I think all these graphs don't include Paypal donations, either Super No Vacancy fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 21:52
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The iControlpad 2 guys are promising a neat little video documentary on how they're going about building the controllers should they meet their funding. They just put up an introduction on how they want to document it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qR50fd0SM8 Long story short, the controller/keyboard is entirely made in Europe, and they plan on documenting the entire process, down to even the monetary breakdown and which factories they're coming from. Absolutely fascinating.
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Oct 2, 2012 23:12
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The problem is, Obsidian really needs to get their stretch goals mapped out up to 4 mil. That final push won't do much if the stretch goals aren't up within enough time. Releasing one at a time won't help build up the hype.
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Oct 2, 2012 23:29
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Boiled Water posted:If I put money into any project I would expect monthly updates. That's one thing I think the Replay guys have been great about with the Leisure Suit Larry Kickstarter. They do updates twice a month. It really makes me feel like they care about my cash.
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Oct 3, 2012 05:06
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It seems like all the old game guys are just coming out the woodwork: An Old-School RPG by Brenda Brathwaite and Tom Hall! Being designed by Tom Hall is almost enough to get me to back it. Also, if you pledge 10.000 dollars, Tom Hall, Brenda Brathwaite and John Romero (yes, him) will hand over the game to you on a velvet pillow, and take you to Disney Land. And if they reach 1.9 million instead of their goal of just 1 million, Tom Hall and Brenda Brathwaite will each design a game, giving you two games for the price of one.
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Oct 3, 2012 12:46
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Iacen posted:It seems like all the old game guys are just coming out the woodwork: Well drat, this looks nice, and seeing as the deadline's after Obsidian's, I'm comfortably pledging $60; gotta have that PnP RPG system at least.
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Oct 3, 2012 12:57
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Iacen posted:It seems like all the old game guys are just coming out the woodwork: Tom Hall isn't exactly known for Old-School RPGS, is he? Also I'm a little disappointed that free from the constraints of publishers, they've decided to explore the realm of generic D&D fantasy.
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Oct 3, 2012 13:02
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Al! posted:Also I'm a little disappointed that free from the constraints of publishers, they've decided to explore the realm of generic D&D fantasy. It's working for Obsidian. Unfortunately. I'd like to see some variety and watch these guys do something innovative but I'm not surprised to see More Generic D&D Fantasy since it's a fairly safe bet. Speaking of Obsidian these guys probably should have thought twice about launching a kickstarter so close to Project Eternity. Probably could make more money if they aren't sorta competing for the same designer finally free from the shackles of publishers so they can continue to make generic fantasy games dollars.
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Oct 3, 2012 13:18
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Al! posted:Tom Hall isn't exactly known for Old-School RPGS, is he? Also I'm a little disappointed that free from the constraints of publishers, they've decided to explore the realm of generic D&D fantasy. It's not exactly "Old school" but Tom Hall was the lead on Anachronox.
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Oct 3, 2012 15:11
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Now all we need is a kickstarter for an old school FPS with maps created by luminaries such as Levelord. 
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Oct 3, 2012 15:25
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ZeeBoi posted:Now all we need is a kickstarter for an old school FPS with maps created by luminaries such as Levelord. I think the equivalent would be West and Zampella starting a kickstarter to make what they truly have wanted to make without the crushing influence of publishers like Activision, a modern military shooter.
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Oct 3, 2012 15:28
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I'm not really feeling that project has as firm legs as previous projects. For one, the project idea is really vague and I can think of a dozen different RPG's from the era they are "taking inspiration" from and I don't really want to play all of those. Some of them are a bit too old-school for me. I can give this a minimal investment though, it might be worth that much.
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Oct 3, 2012 15:56
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ZeeBoi posted:Now all we need is a kickstarter for an old school FPS with maps created by luminaries such as Levelord. (not a kickstarter, but hey, still looks neat)
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Oct 3, 2012 16:04
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Shalinor posted:Assuming anyone is actually jonesing for that, Wrack is pretty darn close. Swap level lord levels for music by the composer from the original Doom, and there you go. Yeah, the thing is FPS games with that super-crisp style of level design more or less have been lost. Even games that are supposed to be throwbacks like Painkiller or Hard Reset still tend to have very busy levels with lots of varied geometry. I'd totally be willing to put in for a kickstarter for that style of game.
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Oct 3, 2012 16:13
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The Loot Drop people sure have a lot of friends in the industry. The pitch is really hazy, though. They need to step it up with some more details.
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Oct 3, 2012 16:36
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Iacen posted:It seems like all the old game guys are just coming out the woodwork:
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Oct 3, 2012 17:08
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Shalinor posted:Assuming anyone is actually jonesing for that, Wrack is pretty darn close. Yup, fun game. I do wish it had an ingame map, to really scratch that old Doom exploration itch. Megazver posted:The Loot Drop people sure have a lot of friends in the industry. I was more than a little annoyed by that. The pitch for a million dollars (at minimum) boiled down to namedropping and repeating "old school" and "hardcore" over and over and over. It's a Kickstarter self-parody. (Not to mention the claim that with more money they'll make 2 games instead of 1, in the same time period.) Bleh. 
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Oct 3, 2012 17:33
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Johnny Law posted:(Not to mention the claim that with more money they'll make 2 games instead of 1, in the same time period.) Their pitch is really vague, but I've come to expect that from these nostalgia kickstarters, we'll see if they reveal anything else in the coming weeks.
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Oct 3, 2012 17:50
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