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Mustach posted:I found this to be completely innocuous when I played XIII and was surprised it became a thing here. What's the big deal? Never been sure about it, honestly.
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Oct 1, 2012 15:51
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Because not only is "Moms are tough" a cheesy line, but using it during a rebellion doubly so, then she dies not soon after and it becomes hilariously ironic. FFXIII is full of cheesy dialogue, but "Moms are tough" is definitely the one that stands out above the rest because it manages to be ridiculously silly in execution, context, delivery, and aftermath. "We are pets" and the Nebula of YOUR NAME MEANS HOPE dialogue don't even compared to that moment, though those are also very silly as well.
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Oct 1, 2012 16:04
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Because not only is "Moms are tough" a cheesy line, but using it during a rebellion doubly so, then she dies not soon after and it becomes hilariously ironic. FFXIII is full of cheesy dialogue, but "Moms are tough" is definitely the one that stands out above the rest because it manages to be ridiculously silly in execution, context, delivery, and aftermath. "We are pets" and the Nebula of YOUR NAME MEANS HOPE dialogue don't even compared to that moment, though those are also very silly as well. Maybe... "Moms are tough" sounded considerably less awful in Japanese...? Anyone know? Cause... yea, it was cringe-worthy for all the reasons you mention lol.
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Oct 1, 2012 16:15
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Mom's are tough, ya spoony bard. Whatever. There's sand on my boots. Dad I hate you.
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Oct 1, 2012 16:34
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Happy Blue Cow posted:Maybe... "Moms are tough" sounded considerably less awful in Japanese...? Anyone know? Cause... yea, it was cringe-worthy for all the reasons you mention lol. It did. I seem to recall what happened there is that it was a Japanese idiom that was translated literally. The actual line translates to something like "Mothers are strong, you know." I can see how you can get "moms are tough" from that but... well. FFXIII's translation is bad. It is not a hidden gem beneath that but the translation is like a textbook example of why literal translations are bad bad bad ideas. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Oct 1, 2012 |
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Oct 1, 2012 16:37
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AngryCaterpillar posted:Mom's are tough, ya spoony bard. Whatever. There's sand on my boots. Dad I hate you. Son of a submariner!
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Oct 1, 2012 16:39
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AngryCaterpillar posted:Mom's are tough, ya spoony bard. Whatever. There's sand on my boots. Dad I hate you. Spoony bard would only be as bad as Moms Are Tough if the next scene he transformed into a fork that looked vaguely like Britney Spears
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Oct 1, 2012 16:48
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I don't see anything wrong with the "We're pets" bit either. This is someone actually questioning, probably for the first time in her life, exactly why these powerful godlike beings go to all the trouble of providing food and shelter and warmth and light to a human population who takes it all for granted. Her conclusion is a pretty obvious one. Of course the right answer is the other obvious one, but that's beside the point.
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Oct 1, 2012 16:54
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edit: ^ YesImpAtom posted:It did. I seem to recall what happened there is that it was a Japanese idiom that was translated literally. The actual line translates to something like "Mothers are strong, you know." I can see how you can get "moms are tough" from that but... well. Mustach fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 1, 2012 |
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Oct 1, 2012 16:55
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Spoony bard would only be as bad as Moms Are Tough if the next scene he transformed into a fork that looked vaguely like Britney Spears "Spoony bard" is a bad line. I'll be the first to admit that. It's funny because it's so bad, and nostalgia has made it so bad it's good. That still doesn't make "Moms are tough" a good line. Maybe in fifteen years, I'll look back fondly, but I doubt it.  "Son of a submariner" and "There's sand on my boots" are obviously jokes made by a literal clown villain while funny music is playing, so I'm not sure where the comparison there would be.
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Oct 1, 2012 17:11
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Pesky Splinter posted:That's the thing; it's presented as him being horribly hosed up. The player is certainly not meant to supportive of that. Or the blatent misogyny. And there's the fact that he's the antagonist. Oh, Crispin Freeman and his evil monologues. 
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Oct 1, 2012 18:07
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AngryCaterpillar posted:Dad I hate you. Um actually it's "Dad................... ihateyou." What weird delivery.
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Oct 1, 2012 18:17
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You can thank them being forced to keep up with Lip syncing for that.
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Oct 1, 2012 18:19
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Dr Pepper posted:You can thank them being forced to keep up with Lip syncing for that. Are they still doing that? I worked on a game that was released in something like 12 different languages and we put in a system that dynamically changes the lip syncing based on the subtitle. Translator translates the line, the game reads the line and creates the new lip movements. We could also manually change the movements to match lines if a VA went off script or read the line weird. I think we've come a long way since FFX and I hope they aren't still trying to match lip flaps. AngryCaterpillar posted:drat. No one has downloaded the PSP version of FFIII from the PSN? No one can tell me how big the download is? I downloaded it to put on my Vita but Sony patched that out super quick. It's around 220 MB. Pretty small.
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Oct 1, 2012 18:27
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No now a days Square redoes the lip syncing when dubbing the games, thankfully.
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Oct 1, 2012 18:33
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Dr Pepper posted:No now a days Square redoes the lip syncing when dubbing the games, thankfully.
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Oct 1, 2012 18:45
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VagueRant posted:Wait, what? Then why is the voice acting still so stilted and anime-ish? Because they got a lovely mix of anime voice actors and people with no experience to do all the leads?
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Oct 1, 2012 18:50
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VagueRant posted:Wait, what? Then why is the voice acting still so stilted and anime-ish? Having good lip syncing doesn't mean you have good voice direction. The voice director for FFXIII was pretty clearly telling the actors to emulate the Japanese mannerisms exactly, which is loving ridiculous. It's an extension of what I said about the translation being bad because it is overly-literal. Almost to a comical degree.
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Oct 1, 2012 18:51
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VagueRant posted:Wait, what? Then why is the voice acting still so stilted and anime-ish? Poor translation and voice direction, I'd assume. Square Enix did go to the effort of rendering entirely new CGI sequences in Final Fantasy XIII for the English dub's lip movements, so at least they've started taking it more seriously. Poor lip sync isn't something you see often now that there's software to do a lot of the work for you, but during the PS2 era they tended to manually animate one language and fit the rest into those animations. Capcom's games tended to have excellent lip sync, since they only recorded English dialogue.
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Oct 1, 2012 18:54
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PhilippAchtel posted:"Spoony bard" is a bad line. I'll be the first to admit that. It's funny because it's so bad, and nostalgia has made it so bad it's good. It's only a bad line if you don't know that spoony is a real word, albeit a pretty old-fashioned one. Tellah's an old dude, I think he can be forgiven some archaic language. Irony: I had to stop my phone from auto-correcting it to "spooky" twice while writing this post
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Oct 1, 2012 19:25
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Suaimhneas posted:It's only a bad line if you don't know that spoony is a real word, albeit a pretty old-fashioned one. Tellah's an old dude, I think he can be forgiven some archaic language. Spoony being a real word doesn't make it feel any less out of place or a poor choice. Something being a legitimate choice doesn't make it a right choice, especially when it is archaic or odd enough that it stands out from the rest of the script. In this case Tellah isn't really given enough quirks to justify something that out of place (especially at an otherwise dramatic moment.) It isn't an incorrect translation but it's still not a very good one.
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Oct 1, 2012 19:37
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Suaimhneas posted:It's only a bad line if you don't know that spoony is a real word, albeit a pretty old-fashioned one. Tellah's an old dude, I think he can be forgiven some archaic language. Haha, well I suppose that is one way to look at it. FWIW, I did know that "spoony" was a word. The fact that the word draws so much attention - precisely because it is so uncommon - detracts from what is supposed to be a very emotionally charged scene though. People look back on that scene as kind of funny because of the word choice, but it really wasn't supposed to be. I think there's certainly parallels to be drawn between that and "Moms are tough". edit: beaten
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Oct 1, 2012 19:50
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drat, I was hoping I'd just blown someone's mind with that. 
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Oct 1, 2012 20:00
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By the point where Anna dies, we have far too little invested in her (or Tellah and Edward, really) to be really pulled in on that scene. If it wasn't for that line, I think the whole scene would have felt really flat anyway.
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Oct 1, 2012 20:06
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I've been playing through an FF6 mod called "Brave New World". The designers' goal was to rebalance and tweak the characters to make them a bit more distinctive. Certain espers can only be equipped by certain characters, dual-wielding is the property of the weapon type, not the relic, and most of the glitches from the SNES game (such as Evade %) have been fixed. Lots of other improvements such as faster Bushido times and a reworked equipment list have been added as well. It's been a very pleasurable mod to play through, and I'm sure some of the people in this thread would be interested. There's a discussion going on over at the GameFAQs boards (moved due to  concerns I suppose), and one of the authors has said I can give out the email to those interested.Send a mail to btb@action52.com if you're interested, or feel free to reply here or pm me if you have any questions about the mod.
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Oct 1, 2012 20:16
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That loving Sned posted:Poor translation and voice direction, I'd assume. Square Enix did go to the effort of rendering entirely new CGI sequences in Final Fantasy XIII for the English dub's lip movements, so at least they've started taking it more seriously. I'd say the voice direction is the only real problem with XIII's VA. The translation is fine, if a little too literal. At the very least, the VA director should get some better training.
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Oct 1, 2012 20:48
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Toshimo posted:Because they got a lovely mix of anime voice actors and people with no experience to do all the leads? The problem is awkward dialogue and bad direction. The translation of the dialogue itself is fine, if a bit too literal, but it doesn't seem to have taken into account that this is a thing that has to come out of an actual human being's mouth.
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Oct 1, 2012 20:55
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Yeah, of all my complaints against FFXIII, voice acting isn't one of them. I'm not going to say it was great, but I think the voice actors did the best they could with what they had. Frankly, I wish the VA work had been worse. If it had been bad enough, at least it would have been funny.
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Oct 1, 2012 20:57
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Camel Pimp posted:Yeah, of all my complaints against FFXIII, voice acting isn't one of them. I'm not going to say it was great, but I think the voice actors did the best they could with what they had. FFXIII doesn't need any more reasons to be aggressively criticized; you already have practically every single part of the game already.
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Oct 1, 2012 21:01
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From what I recall, XIII-2's translation was a lot better, but maybe I just think that because Caius was great.
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Oct 1, 2012 21:05
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Caius was great because Liam O' Brien can deliver any lovely dialogue and make it sound like Shakespeare. FFXIII-2 still has a lot of silly dialogue, but I think it's more on purpose in XIII-2 than it is in XIII. I just really hope they don't have Ali Hillis speak in that deep monotone they've been having her do as Lightning when LIGHTNING RETURNS rolls around, but the odds of that are sadly unlikely. Whatever, it means more Liam O' Brien as Caius and maybe even more Sazh.
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Oct 1, 2012 22:15
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PunkBoy posted:From what I recall, XIII-2's translation was a lot better, but maybe I just think that because Caius was great. For what it's worth I was merely ambivalent to FFXIII but hated FFXIII-2's story. The difference being that I played XIII in Japanese and FFXIII-2 in English. Either FFXIII-2 was phenomenally more poorly written or the translation was worse. (Or both!) I'm almost tempted to play FFXIII-2 in Japanese because it's probably trivial to get a cheap copy, but I really didn't like the game enough to pay for that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 1, 2012 22:50
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PunkBoy posted:From what I recall, XIII-2's translation was a lot better, but maybe I just think that because Caius was great. Agreed, Caius was awesome. But that's mostly because Liam O'Brien stole my heart with Grimoire Weiss.
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Oct 1, 2012 23:28
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Liam O'Brien can do smarmy rear end in a top hat like nobody else. He was great was Lezard in Valkyrie Profile 2 as well.
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Oct 1, 2012 23:33
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For the DS/PSP version of FFIII, what would the hardest combination be for a FFV-style random class challenge? Ignoring the parts where you need Toad/Mini and I guess the dungeon where only magic really does any damage. I figure Scholar and Evoker for the middle two crystals. I guess White Mage for the first crystal? Not sure about the last. Edit: I guess I might as well spoiler that part since the game just came out again. Armor-Piercing fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 01:18
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ImpAtom posted:For what it's worth I was merely ambivilant to FFXIII but hated FFXIII-2's story. The difference being that I played XIII in Japanaese and FFXIII-2 in English. Either FFXIII-2 was phenomenally more poorly written or the translation was worse. (Or both!) I liked the story of FFXIII-2 until it became an actual story. When Serah and Noel are jumping around time fixing problems, that's all cool and fun. But then Caius shows up and he's all "I'm going to reset time!" or whatever and there's that Yumi character and I just don't care. There were some good moments in the Caius/Noel plot but if the story was mostly wandering around for 90% of the game and the villain being introduced only towards the end like a lot of the earlier Final Fantasies, I would have been cool with that.
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Oct 2, 2012 02:58
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Sex_Ferguson posted:I just really hope they don't have Ali Hillis speak in that deep monotone they've been having her do as Lightning when LIGHTNING RETURNS rolls around, but the odds of that are sadly unlikely. I just hope if one good thing comes out of it, it can be something as utterly non-serious as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7dOOy8kBJY
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Oct 2, 2012 04:07
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Totally forgot that XIII has one of the best cutscenes in the series: SWEET MERCY! That Gigantaur run has me in fuckin' stitches.
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Oct 2, 2012 06:51
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It was in the related videos, but I liked the tonberry mission.
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Oct 2, 2012 06:59
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VagueRant posted:Wait, what? Then why is the voice acting still so stilted and anime-ish? What does "anime-ish" even mean? There must be hundreds of anime dubs out there, done by people from all over the United States and Canada. Square is actually pretty good at not just dipping into the same old anime VA pool of Lowenthal, Bosch and Freeman. As much as I like a lot of the prominent voice-actors in dubbing, they definitely are overused. FFXII only had a handful of people i recognized and a couple of them(LaMarr and Templeman) aren't even really "anime VAs". In FFXIII I only recognized Snow. I vaguely think I've heard Hope before but I'm not sure on that. Edit: Actually, we had this topic earlier in this thread. Square does usuallly hire the "big names" like Freeman but they stick them with minor characters like Reks and Rude while they give the main spots to less-famous people. (Cloud is voiced by Jason from General Hospital isn't he? That's hilarious. I watched that with my mom growing up) NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 07:40
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