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Throatwarbler posted:You drive around a track and the guy with the best time wins? What is there to not get? I think a lot of what people don’t get about time attack to that level is, if you're going to spend that much time and money on your "racing" program why aren't you wheel to wheel racing? Time attack is literally qualifying. You're missing the best part of a race weekend with it. Time attack and time trials make tons of sense as a bridge between doing trackdays and doing wheel to wheel racing. It allows people to do something competitive without having to go full racecar prep levels and turn a street car into a track only car, but at that level it’s a bit hollow.
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Oct 27, 2012 17:13
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kill me now posted:I think a lot of what people don’t get about time attack to that level is, if you're going to spend that much time and money on your "racing" program why aren't you wheel to wheel racing? counterpoint- sometimes qualifying is the best part of the race weekend...
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Oct 27, 2012 17:37
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Linedance posted:counterpoint- sometimes qualifying is the best part of the race weekend... As an F1 spectator, sure. But as a driver?
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Oct 27, 2012 17:40
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kill me now posted:I think a lot of what people don’t get about time attack to that level is, if you're going to spend that much time and money on your "racing" program why aren't you wheel to wheel racing?
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Oct 27, 2012 18:00
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Time attack is no different to hillclimb (well, I guess you could argue that it's easier to get back to the start), I really can't understand why anyone questions whether it's a "legitimate" form of racing or some poo poo like that. Lots of competition is done on time vs time rather than wheel to wheel, why is it time attack that gets everyone bent out of shape? Also, Saab B204-powered Astra, anyone? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/astra-gsi-saab-turbo-conversion-not-vxr-sri-gte-rs-/230869090202?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35c0debf9a  
InitialDave fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Oct 27, 2012 |
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Oct 27, 2012 18:00
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InitialDave posted:Time attack is no different to hillclimb (well, I guess you could argue that it's easier to get back to the start), I really can't understand why anyone questions whether it's a "legitimate" form of racing or some poo poo like that. Lots of competition is done on time vs time rather than wheel to wheel, why is it time attack that gets everyone bent out of shape? Racers are snobs, we all look down on everyone doing something different. Chump vs Lemons, endurance vs sprint, open wheel vs GT, circuit vs rally, the only time we're happier than actually racing is slagging off everyone else. 
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Oct 27, 2012 18:13
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InitialDave posted:Time attack is no different to hillclimb (well, I guess you could argue that it's easier to get back to the start), I really can't understand why anyone questions whether it's a "legitimate" form of racing or some poo poo like that. Lots of competition is done on time vs time rather than wheel to wheel, why is it time attack that gets everyone bent out of shape? what would be cool would be team time attack, like team pursuit in track cycling... 4 cars drafting and third one across the line sets the time. Or sprint, that would kick rear end with cars... Basically any of track cycling's events would be cool with cars too.
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Oct 27, 2012 18:18
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Cygni posted:I still don't 'get' time attack. I don't 'get' LeMons, so
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Oct 27, 2012 18:27
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Linedance posted:Basically any of track cycling's events would be cool with cars too. Australian pursuit.
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Oct 27, 2012 18:42
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Saw a C63 Black this morning. Looks so much nicer without the wing 
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Oct 27, 2012 19:33
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Bucephalus posted:I don't 'get' LeMons, so You dont get Lemons racing? Pretty simple concept man. e: also apparently time attack is a sore subject for a lot of you, jesus. Cygni fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Oct 27, 2012 |
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Oct 27, 2012 20:50
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I get the "race a $500 beater" part, but not the parade of hippie stoner pageantry. HURR WE'RE DRESSED LIKE PIMPS AND THERE'S A BLOWUP DOLL TIED TO OUR ROOF  VVV edited out insensitive bigoted language, sorry Dagen H fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Oct 27, 2012 |
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Oct 27, 2012 21:01
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I wish there was a racing series which emphasized gay culture.
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Oct 27, 2012 21:08
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juche mane posted:I wish there was a racing series which emphasized gay culture. You don't watch F1?
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Oct 27, 2012 21:28
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juche mane posted:I wish there was a racing series which emphasized gay culture. National Ass Sex Club Also Racing
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Oct 27, 2012 21:47
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Jedrick posted:National This suits my needs.
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Oct 27, 2012 21:52
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Bucephalus posted:I get the "race a $500 beater" part, but not the parade of hippie stoner pageantry. Chumpcar is a lot better in that respect, still has the ultra low price ceiling but far fewer shenanigans. They also have a much lower tolerance for people who can't drive, so there's a place for each. I have always and probably will always prefer events that involve not just "oh yeah that might pass inspection in Florida" cars but real street cars. I don't like what sits between that and wheel-to-wheel as much because it falls victim to the wallet contest as so many of these things do. The hillclimb event I attend is like that, no slicks allowed, no dedicated race cars. That's what Pike's Peak is for 
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Oct 27, 2012 22:09
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Cygni posted:e: also apparently time attack is a sore subject for a lot of you, jesus. Only some of us. The Biohazard MR2 that was at Road America last weekend was a lot like a Time Attack car; it was also about 10 mph faster in a straight line than anyone else too. Bucephalus posted:I get the "race a $500 beater" part, but not the parade of hippie stoner pageantry. That's why there's Chumpcar.
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Oct 27, 2012 22:16
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kill me now posted:I think a lot of what people don’t get about time attack to that level is, if you're going to spend that much time and money on your "racing" program why aren't you wheel to wheel racing? Gravel is for racing, tarmac is for getting there. /w2wsucks
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Oct 27, 2012 22:28
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Saw this parked down at the local upscale shopping center.  Audi R8 GT Cabriolet
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Oct 28, 2012 00:43
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The problem with time attack is that it's not spectator friendly. My best weekends as a crew chief were when we set records on the first session of the day and didn't have to do any more laps. So if you are going out to watch a well prepared team they might only go out on track once or twice for 2-3 laps at a time. At our best we did about 30 laps, set two records that still stand and won the modified magazine tuner shootout over the span of 6 months. And blew up two engines. So that's the thing with time attack- you are pushing the car to what it will do for a single lap. These cars can't do a wheel to wheel race for a number of reasons, the main one being cooling and reliability and another safety. Time attack isn't much more than a track day so in the lower classes you don't even need a roll bar. To race wheel to wheel the car needs a pretty extensive cage plus the car prep rules are much more strict. This lets you go out and see how fast the car can go for one flying lap. Here are some of the top time attack cars in the world Factor X Motorsports Development NSX from Las Vegas: 2400lbs. 980rwhp. Somewhere around 3000lb of downforce. Holds the overall record at Buttonwillow which is the benchmark for time attack in the US. Nemo racing EVO from Australia: 2200lbs. 5000lbs of downforce. Went faster than anything short of a formula car around eastern creek on the low power map. 6 seconds faster than a v8 supercar. GST Motorsports Impreza from Hayward, CA: 2500lbs, 1187whp Cyber EVO from Japan:  World Racing Scion from Torrance, CA: jamal fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 02:25
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A friend of mine is building a time attack car. We have been arguing since the beginning about TT vs wheel to wheel. For him the reasons are that he wants it to be qualifying style competition instead of what can you do in traffic and doesn't want to wreck his car because someone else screwed up. He understands its a possibility anyway and that he will probably wreck himself. Long story short he's scared of wheel to wheel.  I think the unlimited TT is gaining popularity because high end shops can build stuff that will look great on youtube and in magazines and show off talents you could never use within wheel to wheel rules. Maybe they miss can-am and group b and just say gently caress it, how fast can we go? Whatever the reason, so long as they're not street racing its all good. jamal posted:These cars can't do a wheel to wheel race for a number of reasons, the main one being cooling and reliability and another safety. Cooling and reliability I assumed but safety? I realize no amount of safety equipment is a guarantee. Is it just the high speeds they reach or do they really skimp on safety equipment? How far do they push it in the high end TT? I did see the pure tuning civic running TTS who had a 300whp 96-00 Civic hatchback that had a 6pt NHRA style roll bar and a dash bar that bolted in just to save weight.
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Oct 28, 2012 03:24
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For the reasons that some hate time attack, they'd have to hate drag racing too. Just saying.
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Oct 28, 2012 03:30
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Time attack is basically Autocross on an actual circuit. Do any of you remember that event that combined your lap time with your quartermile time ? I remember MM&FF magazine entered with some Mustang and placed 4th or 3rd, It was a yearly thing and I think the event was held at LV Speedway.
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Oct 28, 2012 03:38
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This is pretty drat AI. I met James Best today. Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane. His eyes lit up when I asked him about tearing up the roads in a Plymouth Fury. He's a great guy with a really sharp sense of humor. 
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Oct 28, 2012 04:12
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Oct 28, 2012 07:04
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Historics at a NASA event in Sonoma today
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Oct 28, 2012 07:48
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honda whisperer posted:
I do like time attack and I organise / Clerk of Course events. So lets get that out of the way as to where I stand on it. However yes what you have supposed is 100% correct. Safety is NOT what you would expect from a car that could make a huge loving hole int he fence - the cages and secondry safety is simply not up to the levels that you think it should be. My 2004 spec FIA cage is better than the latest TT cars - some of the cages TT lets you get away with make me cringe. The cars themselves are quite flimsy and do have failures - they are pushing the envelope and I do see suspension failures or engine grenades with regularity. An very good example is there's a car coming from Autotech in Australia (BTW who are assclowns with some truly obnoxious people) that has a 06 WRC shell with half the cage cut out. That can not be a good idea for a 550Kw car and yet it's in the rulebook, they are allowed to get away with safety gear that was deemed illegal 10 years ago. I have been working on trying to get the higher spec cars to have appropriate cages and other safety gear, but as someone else pointed out, yes this is drag racing but with a circuit and these cars are pushing the boundaries and then some of the rule book and the spirit of time attack. I think there will be an engineering failure soon and someone will get hurt and that could have been prevented. The way I think it should work is the lower classes get some freedoms due to still being road cars - and this is where TT works well, you can drive your road car to a day, have fun, go home so full cages are not good for a DD - but the unrestricted cars having to comply with at least FIA 2011 safety rules for sedans.
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Oct 28, 2012 07:55
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Cat Terrist posted:I do like time attack and I organise / Clerk of Course events. So lets get that out of the way as to where I stand on it. What excuses are they using to justify that sort of sloppy poo poo? I mean, once you've gone past the point of not being able to ever be road registered there's no excuse for not having a full cage and safety kit. I mean, buying something with an existing top-level cage and then chopping it out? WTF taken to a new level.
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Oct 28, 2012 08:58
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If someone can save 50lbs of cage the rules don't stipulate they will do so.
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Oct 28, 2012 09:14
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Cakefool posted:If someone can save 50lbs of cage the rules don't stipulate they will do so. The sad part is that you dont save that much at all (additional cross braces arent too much of a problem and a good cage can weigh only 30-40 kgs total for the most scaffold you can throw in, like WRC cages) quote:What excuses are they using to justify that sort of sloppy poo poo? I mean, once you've gone past the point of not being able to ever be road registered there's no excuse for not having a full cage and safety kit. I mean, buying something with an existing top-level cage and then chopping it out? WTF taken to a new level. Apart from you dont actually save that much, if you do cage design 101 a properly designed cage makes your car a stiffer platform to make the suspension and tyres work more effectively. So they are sacrificing not much weight for potentially better handling and better safety. Justification? I have no idea, apart sheer stupidity. But here's the REAL stupidity of it all - a WRC cage is pretty light and even acts as a deformation point. It's DESIGNED to gracefully fail. You take bits out, you lose the graceful bit. They have wasted utterly the hundreds of design hours to make that cage work at all, Lord help them if they roll over, what remains of the cage will break and become lethal. Bunch of assclowns.
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Oct 28, 2012 10:02
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Cat Terrist posted:Justification? I have no idea, apart sheer stupidity. But here's the REAL stupidity of it all - a WRC cage is pretty light and even acts as a deformation point. It's DESIGNED to gracefully fail. You take bits out, you lose the graceful bit. They have wasted utterly the hundreds of design hours to make that cage work at all, Lord help them if they roll over, what remains of the cage will break and become lethal. Bunch of assclowns. So basically the only thing they're now getting out of having spent all that cash on an ex-WRC shell is the bragging rights of having an ex-WRC shell, not actually anything tangible from being built to WRC-spec.
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Oct 28, 2012 10:28
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2ndclasscitizen posted:So basically the only thing they're now getting out of having spent all that cash on an ex-WRC shell is the bragging rights of having an ex-WRC shell, not actually anything tangible from being built to WRC-spec. Yep, that's about right. On TT cars that aren't dumb - The NEMO racing EVO is rumoured to have cost 900K AUD to build and get to WTAC. It shows however - it's one godawfully fast car with more left in it - A Group C LeMans car does EC in 1:19. It also has a proper full cage in it, with even a few bars not required for FIA 2012. Great bit of machinery, completely unsuited for anything other than one banzai lap but holy poo poo is it good at that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzAE7BL4U9s Have a look at the G meter - over 2 G lateral and nearly 2 G under brakes.
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Oct 28, 2012 11:07
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Another young American learns to hate GM for the rest of her life. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/26/cnn-chronicles-young-girl-building-pontiac-fiero/
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Oct 28, 2012 11:24
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THATS ADORABLE http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/085309-20.html
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Oct 28, 2012 15:12
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/reddit/jailbait/ironduke/braces
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Oct 28, 2012 15:21
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grover posted:Time Attack presents a lot lower risk to your car than wheel-to-wheel racing. A lot of people time-attack their daily driver, or simply can't afford the additional safety equipment it takes for wheel-to-wheel. That is literally what I said? The part that I have trouble with is the people and shops that are putting out these dedicated time attack cars that are so far removed from being street cars and have had tons of money poured into them. There is no "can't afford the additional safety equipment" for these cars. Time attack as a way to add a competition element beyond a normal track day is cool. Time attack as a total wank fest for shops that could clearly afford to be racing for real? Not so much. InitialDave posted:Time attack is no different to hillclimb (well, I guess you could argue that it's easier to get back to the start), I really can't understand why anyone questions whether it's a "legitimate" form of racing or some poo poo like that. Lots of competition is done on time vs time rather than wheel to wheel, why is it time attack that gets everyone bent out of shape? The thing is with a hill climb or rally or targa races ect is that there is no feasible way to have multiple cars running wheel to wheel so they do the next best thing by running for time. On a race track there is room to races cars wheel to wheel so its a cop out not to if your taking it to the point that some of these time attack cars are. front wing flexing posted:For the reasons that some hate time attack, they'd have to hate drag racing too. Just saying. What?
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Oct 28, 2012 15:33
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If I'm stripping out the interior, putting a cage in, towing it every event, I'm going to actually race other cars (as open as that could be depending on classifications), rather than engineer a car to death so I can be cool on the internet. And yes, a good number of dudes who do Time Attacku are too afraid of driving in traffic. I do Time Trials with my Eclipse, but only because I can't store a F150 and a trailer and the car all at once. It's kind of a big commitment for someone who lives in the city. Octopus Magic fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 16:03
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Post your AIest baby strollers 
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Oct 28, 2012 16:15
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Hello Spaceman posted:Post your AIest baby strollers Next year they'll probably just throw a paper grocery bag over his head and write "GRIMLOCK" on it.
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Oct 28, 2012 16:18
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