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Proposed Budget: Around 5-7k New or Used: Used Body Style: I'm torn between a 2dr coupe or a big rear end wagon. I guess I like some hatches too. I like how small cars drive, but I like the practicality of a wagon. How will you be using the car?: I live in Washington, so I'm going to be driving on steep hills in the rain a lot. It will mainly be my daily driver, but if I end up going with a wagon I'm going to want to use it for road trips, camping, etc. Either way, something that will be solid for long trips is a must. I don't care at all about luxury features, in fact I find a lot of them to be an annoyance, I'm only concerned with how it drives. I guess functioning heat/ac and power windows is all I really care about. What aspects are most important to you? The car MUST be AWD or RWD, preferrably AWD. If I go with a smaller car, the driving characteristics such as handling speed etc are most important. On the wagon side of things, the ability to fold down and remove seats is very important, and the over all space I have to work with inside of it. I would be using it to drive STUFF around more than people. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with a Subaru Outback but getting a second opinion would be nice. The Outback has everything I could desire, except that it's slow and not very satisfying to drive.
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Oct 29, 2012 20:40
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Sounds like a wrx wagon or saab 9-2x aero for you. Make sure it has been well treated (they don't take well to being run low on oil) and get a leakdown. 2.0 is easily within that price, 2.5 maybe.
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Oct 29, 2012 22:56
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Proposed Budget: <35k New or Used: New Body Style: Pickup or SUV How will you be using the car?: Realistically I live ~5 miles from work so commuting isn't a huge deal, and this will mostly be used for running around town and some weekend trips out of town or neighboring states. One of the things I am planning on doing a fair bit of is hauling 1-2 motorcycles around. Also occasional light offroad use for camping/beach etc, and we drive from Texas to Florida to visit family once or twice a year. Approx 15k miles/year total. We're also planning on kids soon and I intend to keep it for 6-8 years. Im not going to be hauling around 2000lbs of bricks in the back or pulling earthmoving equipment or anything like that. What aspects are most important to you? I have an 03 jeep grand cherokee limited with 4WD which has made me soft and accustomed to leather, and would like to keep some level of luxury but not necessarily the fully loaded satnav etc. Safety for family members. I would like the ability to fit two street bikes in the back. It would be nice to have 4WD as well. My jeep keeps breaking down and I feel like its one major repair away from me setting it on fire and leaving it by the side of the road. It also gets about the same or even slightly worse mileage than some full size trucks, and while I dont love the mileage I can live with it. I've driven all of the full size trucks, and also the toyota tacoma. I dont think I necessarily need a full size truck but run out pricing on them makes them competitive with the Tacoma and mileage is off by about only 2mpg. It works out to about 2k difference between the 5.0 F150 lariat 4x4 which I'm leaning towards and the dual cab short bed 4x4 Tacoma SR5 which was the original goal, but the ford is better equipped with things like heated power adjustable heated seats and pedals (my wife is 5' so this is actually pretty good and tipped her towards the F150) and its just flat out more comfortable and rides better. I may occasionally tow a mid size trailer too but very rarely (like .. once every 2 years) The other maybe more sensible option is a mid size SUV but to be honest none of them get me particularly excited, and while it seems like a little thing, going to rent a trailer every month or so gets kind of old which is what made me consider a truck in the first place. Any input/suggestions? Is a truck a retarded idea? This is my first new car purchase, and just having some issues with committing. GanjamonII fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 03:37
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nm posted:Sounds like a wrx wagon or saab 9-2x aero for you. Only problem is that wrxes really hold their value here, so there really aren't many wagons going for 5-7. And definitely not a 2.5 for much under 10. I do have time to wait and search though.
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Oct 30, 2012 04:19
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Drunken Lullabies posted:Only problem is that wrxes really hold their value here, so there really aren't many wagons going for 5-7. And definitely not a 2.5 for much under 10. I do have time to wait and search though. Remember that a ticket on southwest is $100. I don't recommend limiting yourself to local for anything that isn't extremely common.
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Oct 30, 2012 05:02
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Maybe a well used 328i wagon would work? Not sure how much luck you will have finding one as they seem pretty uncommon in the states.
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Oct 30, 2012 17:45
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How should I assess a car with a clear title that nonetheless has damage reported on its Carfax? I'm planning on driving out to look at this 2010 Mazda3 hatchback tomorrow. The Carfax contains the line "Damage reported after accident or other incident" with no further details. Of course, I intend to have the vehicle inspected by a mechanic to ensure it's in good condition and hasn't suffered any kind of major damage. I'm concerned about figuring out what price I should pay and how easy it will be to resell the car in the future. Edmunds lists $15259 for private party sale on this vehicle, so the dealer price of $14,999 seems pretty good (I don't expect to get much if anything off this based on email conversations with the dealer). But that's without factoring in damage reported on the Carfax. Just how much of a potential black mark/impact on value am I dealing with here? I'm sure the answer is "it depends on what kind of damage it suffered." But that may be impossible to ascertain, so I'd be grateful for any general guidelines or advice I can get on this subject.
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Oct 31, 2012 02:00
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I'd just walk away from that particular car, there are scores of undamaged Mazda 3s out there. Why buy this car that isn't even a great deal with the unknown of damage?
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Oct 31, 2012 02:57
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Kefit posted:I'm concerned about figuring out what price I should pay and how easy it will be to resell the car in the future. Edmunds lists $15259 for private party sale on this vehicle, so the dealer price of $14,999 seems pretty good (I don't expect to get much if anything off this based on email conversations with the dealer). But that's without factoring in damage reported on the Carfax. Just how much of a potential black mark/impact on value am I dealing with here? Have you compared that price with 2012s that might still be on the lot? For reference, I bought a 2012 3 with Skyactiv (though not the hatch) brand new at the end of August for less than $17k. I would run from a used car, with damage, for $15k.
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Oct 31, 2012 04:15
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The title only changes if there's a total loss on the vehicle. Cars that have been in accidents still have "clean" titles unless they were declared a total loss.
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Oct 31, 2012 15:59
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Yeah it's not branded as a salvage title but since everyone loves the poo poo out of Carfax, seeing damage reported on it is also a black mark.
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Nov 1, 2012 01:11
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I just found out recently that one of my client's father is selling his 1997 Toyota Corolla for 1k. I am currently without a vehicle, and my cursory research on the internet has shown the Corolla to be reliable and a good go from A -> B vehicle. I haven't seen any particular problems with this vehicle online, and if any goon knows of any I would appreciate if they could let me know. Proposed Budget: About 1k New or Used: Used Body Style: 1997 Toyota Corolla, Base model How will you be using the car? I currently do not have a car and am borrowing my Dad's for when I go to work. I make around 60-80 mile trips for work everyday so I am definitely going to put a lot of miles on this car. What aspects are most important to you? I need this car to last me for at least 4 years or so. Given that its a 97, I'm assuming the maintenance will not be terribly costly. I've been helping my Dad pay and maintain his 1997 Ford Taurus so I am figuring costs will not exceed what I've paid for the Taurus. I plan to do my due diligence and get the car inspected before I buy it, but is there any particular noteworthy problems that I should look into, or ask the seller when I talk to him tomorrow? I'm gonna check out recent maintenance on the water pump and timing belts, but any additional information would rock. EDIT: Its currently at 186k miles JustWalkedIn fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 01:34
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A running, decent condition 97 Corolla for 1k isn't a bad deal. If everything checks out that wouldn't be a terrible ride for that cost.
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Nov 1, 2012 01:37
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I'm hoping somebody here might be able to give me some advice. I have never owned a car before (and actually only just got my license), and my family is pretty much useless when it comes to anything regarding money. I recently finished grad school, and have landed a pretty good job- but it's part time to start, and in order to secure a full time position opening up in a month, I'm going to need a car. Of course, being that I just finished school, I'm broke. In order to get a bank loan, I either need to wait until I've been at my job for a while longer (preventing me from getting the better job, and making my life suck even more in the meantime due to two hours of bus commute on top of twelve hour days), or find a cosigner. Which is pretty much impossible. And so: Proposed Budget: This is the problem... Does anyone have any advice? Other than "public transit, wait it out, etc". Should I try a dealership? My credit is squeaky clean, but I have plenty of school debt... I make about 30/hour, work between 20-40 hours/week currently. New or Used: Used Body Style: Just something small. Two door or four, no hatchbacks, nothing too boxy. I'm a young (and look younger) health care professional, so I'd rather not show up for my clients in a total beater; it doesn't really send the "oh god take me seriously" vibe. How will you be using the car?: Getting to/from work, and seeing clients at various sites. Not much highway driving. What aspects are most important to you?: Good gas mileage, but really, other than my weird hate-on for hatchbacks, I'm pretty easy to please. Oh, and I'm in South-Western Ontario. Lots of cold weather and snow.
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Nov 1, 2012 20:37
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JustWalkedIn posted:I just found out recently that one of my client's father is selling his 1997 Toyota Corolla for 1k. I am currently without a vehicle, and my cursory research on the internet has shown the Corolla to be reliable and a good go from A -> B vehicle. I haven't seen any particular problems with this vehicle online, and if any goon knows of any I would appreciate if they could let me know. I've been driving a '95 Geo Prizm (which is basically the same car) since it was new, and it's a tank. The only consistent problem I've ever had was a string of bad alternators back in the early 00's. Otherwise, I've had the struts replaced once and repaired the brakes a few years ago and that's it. Honestly, the only reason I'm going to have to give up this car is a broken emission recycling valve that's going to eventually cause it to fail a smog check.
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Nov 1, 2012 20:55
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Flaimee posted:I'm hoping somebody here might be able to give me some advice. I have never owned a car before (and actually only just got my license), and my family is pretty much useless when it comes to anything regarding money. I recently finished grad school, and have landed a pretty good job- but it's part time to start, and in order to secure a full time position opening up in a month, I'm going to need a car. Of course, being that I just finished school, I'm broke. In order to get a bank loan, I either need to wait until I've been at my job for a while longer (preventing me from getting the better job, and making my life suck even more in the meantime due to two hours of bus commute on top of twelve hour days), or find a cosigner. Which is pretty much impossible. And so: Just to clarify something: have you talked with several banks about this? Or is this just your belief that you won't qualify for a loan?
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Nov 2, 2012 02:26
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Oxford Comma posted:Just to clarify something: have you talked with several banks about this? Or is this just your belief that you won't qualify for a loan? I called my normal bank (RBC) and they said I'd need a cosigner, due to the new-ness of my job.
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Nov 2, 2012 03:35
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Flaimee posted:I'm hoping somebody here might be able to give me some advice. I have never owned a car before (and actually only just got my license), and my family is pretty much useless when it comes to anything regarding money. I recently finished grad school, and have landed a pretty good job- but it's part time to start, and in order to secure a full time position opening up in a month, I'm going to need a car. Of course, being that I just finished school, I'm broke. In order to get a bank loan, I either need to wait until I've been at my job for a while longer (preventing me from getting the better job, and making my life suck even more in the meantime due to two hours of bus commute on top of twelve hour days), or find a cosigner. Which is pretty much impossible. And so: Are you male or female?  If male then your insurance cost alone will probably be more than the lease payment on a new BMW 3 series. Call an insurance company.
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Nov 2, 2012 03:55
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Throatwarbler posted:Are you male or female? Haha, 26 year old female, so at least I have that much going for me.
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Nov 2, 2012 03:59
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Bovril Delight posted:A running, decent condition 97 Corolla for 1k isn't a bad deal. If everything checks out that wouldn't be a terrible ride for that cost. I'd say as long as it isn't a rusty mess, you're golden. You could drive that thing for six months to a year with almost no work to it and part it out when it breaks and probably still come out ahead. There's a reason Toyota has a reputation for stellar reliability, and the Corolla is one of the cars that earned it for them.
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Nov 2, 2012 04:09
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IOwnCalculus posted:I'd say as long as it isn't a rusty mess, you're golden. You could drive that thing for six months to a year with almost no work to it and part it out when it breaks and probably still come out ahead. Heck, if it is decent shape, you could probably sell it for a profit.
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Nov 2, 2012 05:03
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Flaimee posted:I called my normal bank (RBC) and they said I'd need a cosigner, due to the new-ness of my job. Try calling around, especially to credit unions, and see if one of them can finance you.
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Nov 2, 2012 05:53
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I'm going to need to buy a first car in the next couple of months and I'm hoping that goons might know a bit more about cars than I do. Location: Australia Budget: $5-7K AUD. I could stretch that to $8500 if its going to make a big difference. Used/New: Used Body Type: No preference Usage: First car. Will be used for daily trips to and from work and university. Plenty of time spent in traffic. Important Aspects: Safety, low maintenance and on-road costs. Automatic transmission. To get home I need to drive a couple of hundred meters up a steep hill, not sure if that needs to factor in to the decision. I was all set with the (probably retarded) mindset of "get a cheap used diesel sedan" but then I remembered that I know next to nothing about cars, so any advice is appreciated.
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Nov 2, 2012 06:53
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Proposed Budget: Less than $8000 New or Used: Used Body Style: Don't Care How will you be using the car?: I'll be using it as a DD, but I want it to be something I can make moderately fast and wrench on. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? I can add whatever, so not really. Oh, AWD would be nice. What aspects are most important to you? (e.g. reliability, cost of ownership/maintenance, import/domestic, MPG, size, style Umm, fun? We have two cars and I want to be able to play with a car, hopefully use it as a DD, and then sell one of the other cars. I'm kinda leaning towards a WRX, or some other Subaru, but I want some other opinions. I have an auto Jetta (2006) right now, and I want to be able to drive a manual, with more grunt and pull, and be able to do some modest upgrades/work on the car without totally breaking the bank. Thanks!
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Nov 2, 2012 13:52
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Since you've already got the Jetta, a B5 Audi S4 with the 2.7l twin turbo should be right up your alley, you can get them for around your budget, they're AWD, and you surely can wrench on them to go faster!
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Nov 2, 2012 14:13
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Flaimee posted:I called my normal bank (RBC) and they said I'd need a cosigner, due to the new-ness of my job. Sup, Toronto goon here and just went through the process albeit for a new car. A lot of the dealerships have low mileage used cars and you can look into financing with the automaker's financial services - not only do they give better interest rates but they are also more forgiving with the credit loans. I bank with TD (all big banks are the same) and the best they offered me was an interest rate of 3% plus prime. Needless to say, I went with Toyota Financial Services who offered me 0.7% over 4 years even though I'm $18K in OSAP debt with regular credit. In your case I think your squeaky clean credit is a major plus for the auto credit companies. Unfortunately, I'm all about the hatchbacks so I can't recommend a car outside that realm....maybe a ford focus or a corolla for it's gas mileage? Toyota has a "certified guarantee" on all their used cars (I'm sure most automakers have the same thing), and a graduate program special where they will hook you up with a lower interest rate and $500 if you graduated in the last 4 years and have little to no credit. Last, take a look at redflagdeals.com automotive section for help - lots of Ontario people there.
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Nov 2, 2012 15:38
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Throatwarbler posted:Since you've already got the Jetta, a B5 Audi S4 with the 2.7l twin turbo should be right up your alley, you can get them for around your budget, they're AWD, and you surely can wrench on them to go faster! I can't remember if it was this thread or AI but that car was singled out as a horrifying mess. VVV Haha I guess it was "A Joke" but who can tell. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Nov 2, 2012 |
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Nov 2, 2012 15:51
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Throatwarbler posted:Since you've already got the Jetta, a B5 Audi S4 with the 2.7l twin turbo should be right up your alley, you can get them for around your budget, they're AWD, and you surely can wrench on them to go faster! Jesus man, you need to label your sarcasm. Someone might follow that advice.
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Nov 2, 2012 16:02
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itsrobbiej posted:Proposed Budget: That S4 is a hell of a nice car but will require tons of expensive parts in addition to wrench time to keep the engine happy. I think your first instinct of getting a WRX is a great idea, but I would also look at Legacy GTs. You said you want something with grunt that could be made even faster for cheap, and anything with an LS1 is perfect for that if you want a big heavy GT car. I'm sure you can find some 4th generation V8 Camaros, Firebirds, and Trans Ams around $8k pretty easily. You listed fun above all, so I'm going to say that if you don't need more than 2 seats you could also look at a Miata. Miatas are objectively the most fun car (if you're a fan like I am). Really though, would you like a lightweight, nimble sports car? Giant heavy AWD powerhouse? V8 Monster? Your highest priorities are easy to work on and fun, but there are definite winners in many categories that are easy to work on and a blast to drive. Edit: Oh man I'm glad that S4 recommendation was sarcasm. I'm sure it's a fine car but that specific one should never be owned outside of warranty . The turbos like to go, and when they do.... 
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Nov 2, 2012 16:14
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Weinertron posted:anything with an LS1 is perfect for that if you want a big heavy GT car. I'm sure you can find some 4th generation V8 Camaros, Firebirds, and Trans Ams around $8k pretty easily. One caveat to the this is that those cars have some truly terrible ergonomics and interiors. I got motion sickness riding in a camaro because the windshield is at such an odd angle and theres poo poo like a giant hump in the passenger side foot well for some reason. You might as well gut the thing because then at least you're carrying less weight. You're basically buying a great engine with the rest of the car thrown in for free.
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Nov 2, 2012 16:45
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Location: Western Canada Budget: <$7000 Used/New: Used Body Type: No preference Usage: City driving, heavy winter conditions, occasional highway trips. Sitting in traffic a lot on icy roads. Important Aspects: Reliable, great handling on icy roads, comfortable and warm. This will be my first car (and first winter driving) and I'm fairly anxious about driving so much on slippery roads. I also hate getting into a freezing car at 6am without seat warmers. Tenacious J fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 2, 2012 |
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Nov 2, 2012 18:25
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Looks like my '98 Malibu will be totaled by insurance ($4k to fix, worth $3k on a good day). So, the money I was planning to spend on a new furnace will now go toward a new car. Huzzah! Proposed Budget: Up to 25K New or Used: New Body Style: 4 door sedan most likely (although I'd be open to a crossover if it worked with my other criteria) How will you be using the car?: Commuter car in Portland, mainly. Grocery runs too, so trunk space would be good. What aspects are most important to you? Good gas mileage, and safety since my kids and wife will be in the car sometimes as well. Needs to have automatic transmission, and I'd like built in bluetooth connectivity. I've been pretty much focusing on the sedans - not sure I could get a crossover that really fits the bill. For sedans, it seems like the Hyundai Elantra and the Mazda 3 (6 speed automatic) are the most obvious selections. I was looking at the Chevy Cruze, but Consumer Reports' testing showed it got poorer gas mileage than most other similar cars. I could always go Corolla but they're pretty ugly right now. The Dodge Dart intrigues me, but I am worried about reliability on a brand new redesign. Any input?
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Nov 2, 2012 19:37
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If fuel mileage is more of a concern get the Mazda 3 with the Skyactiv motor. Also the Cruz Eco is rated at 42 hwy so you must have been looking at the LS trim which has the 1.8
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Nov 3, 2012 02:19
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nm posted:Jesus man, you need to label your sarcasm. Someone might follow that advice.  I've never made any posts in this thread in jest? He asked for:- Fun - Manual trans - Wants to do modifications - Under $8000 - AWD - Not a Subaru The B5 S4 fits all of these requirements perfectly, much better than a Camaro? They're even pretty common and easy to find and he already has a VAG product so he's presumably already involved in the VAG "community" (such as it is), has forums to peruse, a known source for parts, etc. He never said he wanted reliability or something that runs forever with no maintenance, in fact he specifically mentioned that he had multiple other newer reliable cars and wants to add a "fun" car to the fleet that will provide opportunities for wrenching.
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Nov 3, 2012 03:33
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OK so apparently I can only get financing through my credit union on 2005+ model years and the only 2005-2008 Honda Insight in the entire goddamned country has 228k miles on it. This may still disqualify it from financing but it's cheap enough that alternate arrangements could likely be made. The hybrid batteries have been replaced approximately 40,000 miles ago, the suspension, shocks have all been replaced by the dealer, about 10,000 miles ago. What pitfalls might await a car with such high mileage? It looks and sounds like it was well taken care of, but is it a ticking time bomb?
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Nov 3, 2012 16:48
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Proposed Budget: $20,000ish new. $10,000ish used New or Used: New or used Body Style: Compact hatchback, maybe a sedan/coup if it's a good deal. How will you be using the car?: Daily commuter, occasional trip over Snoqualmie Pass to the parents, carrying road bikes and gear (hatchback). Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: Yes, I want a comfortable ride, sun roof, keyless entry. Navigation or touch screens aren't important. What aspects are most important to you?: Comfort, low road/wind noise, reliability, mpg. Graduated college last year and got my first real job but I'm still driving my college car, a 2004 Kia Rio base (no A/C, manual, no tachometer, no power steering, power nothing, cheap as hell) I picked up for cheap because it was a salvage. I'm getting tired of fighting Seattle traffic with a manual, sputtering up hills, and the overall uncomfortableness of the car. The one plus is that it's incredibly easy to work on it, but I don't have a garage anymore and my apartment prohibits working on cars on the premises. I'm looking for something comfortable, something to make me enjoy my morning commute. As far as looks, I don't like the bloated look of most modern cars. But it seems the only cars that aren't like at are the BMWs and the like, which I don't think I can afford maintenance wise right now. I know a lot of people recommend the Mazda 3, but I can't get past the stupid smirk on its face the last couple years. I was looking at getting a used Volvo S40/60/80 from about 2007 or so because I love the look, but I'm worried about the maintenance costs and reliability of them. The new cars I'm looking at: Kia Forte 5 door SX Volkswagen Golf Ford Focus 5 door Titanium
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Nov 3, 2012 19:07
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Boten Anna posted:OK so apparently I can only get financing through my credit union on 2005+ model years and the only 2005-2008 Honda Insight in the entire goddamned country has 228k miles on it. This may still disqualify it from financing but it's cheap enough that alternate arrangements could likely be made. The hybrid batteries have been replaced approximately 40,000 miles ago, the suspension, shocks have all been replaced by the dealer, about 10,000 miles ago. On a normal car with that many miles, you'd expect some long-term wear items to be wearing out. Suspension components, transmission components, steering components, stuff like that. Depending on how it was driven (freeway miles are likely given how many miles in such a short time, and freeway miles are typically easy on a car) and where (it could be a rustbucket if it was driven every winter in a road-salty place), it might be in great shape or it might need work. The batteries are probably the most expensive replacement and that's been done, so I'd say if you have a mechanic inspect it and the report is that linkages, etc. are good, the only concern would be "how much longer will the transmission last" and I don't know but I suspect that a hybrid transmission isn't typical so maybe it'll last forever or maybe it's made of glass, someone else will have to comment.
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Nov 3, 2012 19:11
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Leperflesh posted:On a normal car with that many miles, you'd expect some long-term wear items to be wearing out. Suspension components, transmission components, steering components, stuff like that. Depending on how it was driven (freeway miles are likely given how many miles in such a short time, and freeway miles are typically easy on a car) and where (it could be a rustbucket if it was driven every winter in a road-salty place), it might be in great shape or it might need work. Thank you for this! It is a manual, and manuals tend to be a bit more hardy in general, but I do imagine in a hybrid it's a bit more complicated. The car looks in good shape in general on all the pictures, at least, but of course I'll want to go check it out myself and probably have a mechanic take a look. The credit union said they might maybe finance it but will have to check. I know they've been trying to sell it for a while now so I'll do some haggling on the price too.
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Nov 3, 2012 19:43
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I'm thinking about replacing my current DD and I've been looking at a couple manual transmission Honda Fit's. One is a 2010 with 44k km (27k mi) for $16874 and a $1000 in finance credit, the other is a 2008 with 26k km (16k mi) for $11900. Both are at dealerships and there has to be several grand of margin at those prices, especially if they're trade ins or auction vehicles. This site http://www.canadianblackbook.com/ tells me average trade in is $13.5k and $9k, while average price is $15k and $10k. I'm planning to finance and for the 2010 the dealership offered 5.99% with payments at 440/month over 48 months and 330/month over 60 months on the list price with $1000 credit and $2000 down. I haven't talked with my bank or credit union yet but does that seem reasonable? And I'm hoping to get the price down to $14-14.5k but I didn't get into things that far. The other issue is the high residual value; a brand new model MSRP is $16980 and totals out to $18758 before tax with Honda financing. Thoughts?
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Nov 4, 2012 02:35
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Proposed Budget: $30k New or Used: New Body Style: Hatch or Wagon Location: NJ,NYC How will you be using the car?: DD, road trip to ski resorts What aspects are most important to you?: Reliability, refined ride, fun enough stock with no mods Currently comparing: Manual: WRX, Focus ST Automatic: GTI, A3 quattro I'm new to manual driving and if I go that route, this would be my first MT car so a more forgiving experience would be nice. My car choices seem to hit 2 of the important aspects but I can't decide which car best meets all 3 conditions.
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Nov 4, 2012 08:02
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