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joedevola posted:I'm watching Dick Morris on Fox News at the moment going on about how all the polls that show an Obama advantage are wrong 'because of math'. Foot Hookers don't come cheap.
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Nov 5, 2012 04:40
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joedevola posted:I think the same thing occasionally about the likes of Limbaugh. The ones who clearly have never actually uttered a sincere word in their lives. At some point surely they must have enough money to retire comfortably. Is there some sort of foul vitality that comes with partisan, reactionary hackery? Do they keep going because they'd have nothing else going on otherwise? Dick Morris doesn't make all that much money compared to many of his peers, but its not just about the money for these people. Its about their ego, feeling in control, feeling powerful. Limbaugh could have retired in complete comfort over a decade ago, but why should he? The man gets paid tens of millions of dollars a year to wake up, put a shirt on, walk down the hallway to his studio, and spend three hours sharing his personal opinions with an army of gullible idiots who worship him. Why should he retire? I guess what I'm saying is that what these people do isn't hard work. Its much more akin to a hobby. A highly lucrative, exclusive, destructive hobby. e: Imagine if you got paid $10,000 for every post you made in D&D. Would you ever retire from posting? Typical Pubbie fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 04:53
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Typical Pubbie posted:The man gets paid tens of millions of dollars a year to wake up, put a shirt on, walk down the hallway to his studio, and spend three hours sharing his personal opinions with an army of gullible idiots who worship him. Why should he retire? My point is I don't think he really believes any of the things he says. What I was wondering was why he keeps going when, financially, he probably doesn't have to, and how he and his ilk maintain such a corrosive mentality without succumbing to emotional exhaustion. Perhaps it's simply the thrill of trying to be The Biggest oval office Alive. It's like his life is a Kaufmanesque performance to see how bilious and fundamentally unpleasant one person's personality can before someone tries to step in and help them.
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Nov 5, 2012 05:06
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joedevola posted:My point is I don't think he really believes any of the things he says. Why not?
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Nov 5, 2012 05:25
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Nah, it would be impossible to do it for so long if you didn't believe that you were right and righteous. It would become an incredible chore to even read the news. E: If I was him, I'd make a big stink about "going Galt" after Obama wins, then just retire to the Cayman Islands or something. I think that's the easiest exit strategy for him.
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Nov 5, 2012 05:25
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Nimmy posted:E: If I was him, I'd make a big stink about "going Galt" after Obama wins, then just retire to the Cayman Islands or something. I think that's the easiest exit strategy for him. Why bother? An Obama win is another four years of money in the bank. Your whole 'rebel speaking the truth' schtick works a lot better when a Dem is in the White House.
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Nov 5, 2012 05:32
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PeterWeller posted:Why bother? An Obama win is another four years of money in the bank. Your whole 'rebel speaking the truth' schtick works a lot better when a Dem is in the White House. I just think it would suck to do his job for so long, but I guess he doesn't feel that way because he's still doing it.
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Nov 5, 2012 05:37
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Nimmy posted:I just think it would suck to do his job for so long, but I guess he doesn't feel that way because he's still doing it. Think about how it would feel to get filthy stinking rich by sharing your opinions with millions of devoted followers while having enough political clout to play a role in shaping national politics. That's what Rush gets to do for a living. It doesn't suck.
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Nov 5, 2012 05:57
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joedevola posted:My point is I don't think he really believes any of the things he says. What I was wondering was why he keeps going when, financially, he probably doesn't have to, and how he and his ilk maintain such a corrosive mentality without succumbing to emotional exhaustion. Perhaps it's simply the thrill of trying to be The Biggest oval office Alive.
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Nov 5, 2012 05:57
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Giant Squid posted:Think about how it would feel to get filthy stinking rich by sharing your opinions with millions of devoted followers while having enough political clout to play a role in shaping national politics. I like the idea of having millions of doting followers, but I don't like the idea of always being mad and having to constantly follow the news. The political news is really just dreadful to follow every day of your life. I much more like the idea of living in luxury without responsibilities; especially if I had substance and sexual vices. I can't imagine going on the air drunk one day and not remembering what I said. I have a hard enough time going to my facebook the morning after I get really drunk even though what I say always turns out to be harmless.
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Nov 5, 2012 06:00
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Giant Squid posted:Why not? There's an identifiable pantomime quality common to most reactionary commentators. If you compare them to someone like say, Alex Jones, their lack of commitment to their message is very clear. Which isn't to say Jones is better than them particularly, but at least he's sincere. Firstly there's the mental gymnastics required to sustain the idea that the left wing-homosexual-progressive agenda is propagated by people who are simultaneously ineffectual, pie in the sky idealists and cold eyed cultural assassins hell bent on destroying the American way of life. Now, you can absolutely believe that stuff if all you do is passively absorb it on talk radio and regurgitate it on Freep. What I don't think is possible is to be on the supply side and keep it up with an honest passion every single day. Mostly though, there's the palpable contempt that people like Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity etc for their audience. Coulter especially, does virtually nothing to hide the fact that she's an out front, hollow partisan shill. It's almost impressive to watch her do her duck speak thing. Maybe I'm being naive.
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Nov 5, 2012 06:06
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PeterWeller posted:Why bother? An Obama win is another four years of money in the bank. Your whole 'rebel speaking the truth' schtick works a lot better when a Dem is in the White House. Come to think of it, what the hell was he even talking about during the Bush years? I was not paying much attention to politics at that point.
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Nov 5, 2012 06:09
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Monkey Fracas posted:Come to think of it, what the hell was he even talking about during the Bush years? I was not paying much attention to politics at that point. He had the War on Terror for about 7.5/8 years. Before 9/11, Bush didn't do anything, so he was probably railing against liberals criticizing Bush for not doing anything.
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Nov 5, 2012 06:12
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In the 90s Rush used to say "Folks, people ask why I don't run for president. Well, I can't afford the pay cut." I swear people in his target audience (preppy kids, execs, business lawyers and stiffs who expect to be rich someday) eat that poo poo up. "Yeah, screw government! Being rich is where it's at. Go Rush!" Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 06:23
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joedevola posted:What I don't think is possible is to be on the supply side and keep it up with an honest passion every single day. The single biggest factor at work here is religious thinking. If the GOP represents God in government, and conservatism is divinely inspired, then ultimately conservatives cannot be wrong, and more importantly must be right. Once you grasp this mindset its easy to understand why people like Morris or Hannity can convince themselves they are right even when empirical evidence proves otherwise. Its ok to make mistakes, or to pick and choose which facts you present to your audience ("lie"), or do bad things, because you possess the ultimate truth, and it will reveal itself. Eventually. Its like a dogmatic failsafe. Even obvious atheists/non-practicing commentators like Limbaugh are affected by this thought process. The thing about Limbaugh is that even if he doesn't believe the poo poo he spews out, he's so old, and he's been doing it for so long, what else can he do? Admit that he is wrong? gently caress that, he'll be dead in twenty years, so why eat poo poo now?
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Nov 5, 2012 06:37
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Gazpacho posted:In the 90s Rush used to say "Folks, people ask why I don't run for president. Well, I can't afford the pay cut." It's damned important to the rightwing battle plan that all government jobs be widely considered to be noncompetitive, unproductive, and unprestigious. The deliberate and public disregard is a staple tactic and it covers every position from postal worker up to the presidency. Demean government from every possible angle at every opportunity. Which is why you'll hear conservative industrialists, even activist ones, crassly dismiss the idea of themselves running for high office, citing their earnest love of money instead. They'd run if they weren't such contemptible and ugly human beings and thought they had a chance at election to anything. They want power, not money, and are apparently too dumb to see that buying people off and bullying them is an extraordinarily expensive way to acquire power and make people do what you want. Thus the piles and piles of money become necessary. As far as his audience goes, I'd say it's mainly stiffs. Actual rich guys have been forced to get some culture in their coerced dealings with civil society, and they tend to be a little embarrassed at the candidness and brazenness with which Rush wages his campaign against everything.
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Nov 5, 2012 07:03
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agarjogger posted:As far as his audience goes, I'd say it's mainly stiffs. Actual rich guys have been forced to get some culture in their coerced dealings with civil society, and they tend to be a little embarrassed at the candidness and brazenness with which Rush wages his campaign against everything. Yes of course. The rich don't care about muslims, they care about selling poo poo to muslims. Halliburton's CEO has his headquarters in Dubai. He's probably not sitting in his office thinking about how horrible all the "sharia" law is making his life. I'll give him preppy kids though. Young people are prone to throwing themselves into things that they think represents them. "I'm not a hippy, so I'm a conservative, and conservatives listen to Rush, so I will listen to Rush."
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Nov 5, 2012 07:18
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My point is more that he has bragged in the past about having a lot of expenses and no doubt still does. The show is what pays them.
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Nov 5, 2012 07:32
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Nimmy posted:Yes of course. The rich don't care about muslims, they care about selling poo poo to muslims. Halliburton's CEO has his headquarters in Dubai. He's probably not sitting in his office thinking about how horrible all the "sharia" law is making his life.
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Nov 5, 2012 07:35
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Gazpacho posted:Remember Rush did the NFL desk for a while then lost the job for talking race. That indicates to me that he's not quite faking and doesn't have much chance of "moving on". Also a guy with that kind of success tends to take on debts. There are no shortage of examples of people who couldn't really retire because they spent so much on appearing rich. Rush no doubt falls into this category. He makes great money, but he flies around, buys ostentatious things, and has a ton of medical problems. Even if he isn't in debt, he'll quickly burn through what ever he's saved trying to maintain his current lifestyle.
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Nov 5, 2012 08:09
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joedevola posted:Maybe I'm being naive. You think the right wing punditosphere is some kind of long-running, totally cynical fraud and you think you're naive? It sounds more like paranoia to me.
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Nov 5, 2012 08:26
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I personally believe that most right-wing pundits are fervent believers in the stuff they say, though I'm sure there are more than a few who are insincere and know they can just get paid by pandering to people's fears and prejudices (I also think that in both cases, there is a fair amount of contempt for their audience that is often barely kept in check). Having said that, I do admit I get a chuckle at the thought that the modern-day conservative media was propelled by Rush basically doing his take on the Hazel Motes character in Flannery O'Connor's "Wise Blood". Except that instead of ending up depressed and crazy like the character in the novel (because people not only tolerated the outrageous stuff he said, but actually started to imitate it in hopes of making money), Rush just said "gently caress it" and eagerly joined in the cash grab. 
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Nov 5, 2012 09:07
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:There are no shortage of examples of people who couldn't really retire because they spent so much on appearing rich. Rush no doubt falls into this category. In 2008, Rush Limbaugh inked an 8 year contract for $400 million dollars. I have no idea if that includes his stupid side projects, like endorsing "Two if by Tea" beverage. Unless he is literally melting down platinum and then reprocessing it into toilet paper to be used at every bowel movement, I am sorry to say that disgusting piece of poo poo is never going to run out of money.
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Nov 5, 2012 11:32
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Hey Dittoheads, who is ready for a Limbaugh movie?quote:Actor and outspoken liberal John Cusack is developing a movie about conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh, Cusack's production company said Friday. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57544736/john-cusack-developing-rush-limbaugh-film/
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Nov 5, 2012 15:44
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Ugh, just talked to my parents and both of them believe ALL of the Libya conspiracy theories. Rupert M., when you die I will fly around the world just to poo poo on your grave. In other news my local conservative talk radio shills have looked up from their pot of chicken bones and boiled frog entrails and have concluded that voter fraud is happening RIGHT NOW in Wisconsin. I see this as a good sign- they're already pushing the narrative that an Obama victory is illegitimate.
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Nov 5, 2012 16:33
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I think this is probably the right thread to post this: The Long Con: Mail-order conservatism The author of the article basically outlines how the really hardcore conservative magazines and such foster an us-vs-them view of themselves and those horrible liberals on every level, and are perfectly willing to do so in an utterly cynical way. They will sell snake oil or just plain ask for donations while framing it as amazing stuff those libs don't want you to have, or you getting to be a hero and stopping those libs from destroying the American family. The magazines and such would then pocket most of the money in the name of "overhead." He wraps this in a look at the sheer ridiculous volume of lies that come out of Romney, seemingly out of necessity as that's the culture he wants to win over. Paul Krugman then wrote a column commenting on it, saying that the conservative habit of raising money but pocketing most of it might explain why despite the Citizens United ruling, Obama and Romney have had roughly comparable amounts of campaign spending. Karl Rove is still touting a Romney victory, and he may just be laughing all the way to the bank no matter who wins.
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Nov 5, 2012 16:41
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I'm a foreigner who has spent tons of time in the US (was engaged to a southern girl for years) and thus got to feel first amused, then terrified by the native right-wing media. You guys may be proud (or mortified) to know that the same concept is starting to take hold here in Brazil. In many places, the media acts as a replacement right-wing party should actual conservative parties not prove up to the task. Hell, even here in my state, the ongoing violence shitstorm (4-5 cops being murdered while out of uniform by gangs every week) was being silenced by the big media out of fear of making the sitting conservative governor look bad. More and more, 'news' becomes the province of pundits blaming everything on some convenient Other: the lefties, the migrants (usually from the northeastern states), gays, you name it. They speak mostly to an older, middle-class audience that sees itself menaced by the 'new middle class', tens of millions of people that rose out of poverty thanks to the recent, mild social programs instituted in the new century. Right now, looking at the US political media feels like looking at the future. Abortion has started being an election subject here all of a sudden, but in the opposite manner of the US: It is outlawed in Brazil (which of course doesn't stop us from having 300K+ each year), so it's al lthe rage to claim that commie dancidate X is planning to secretly legalize it. Having spent a lot of time in the South, I can somewhat relate to Chomsky's point about talk radio listeners. They tend to be people who, once you make it into their tribal group, would treat you like a sibling. But their definition of "their" people is purposefully narrow and their spite for those outside it flows easy and rich. It's awe-inspiring to behold, in a terrfying fashion. It's probably also helped by the cognitive dissonance that (in my personal anecdotal experience) comes easy to many americans. Nowhere else in the world have I seen so many libertarians benefitting from student loans, medicare and other government programs while denouncing big government's ability to do anything but give handouts to the undeserving, or defending callous ambition as a virtue. And when called out on it, however politely, they react as if you had drop-kicked their grandmother in the mouth. "Why are you saying that? Do you think I'm a bad person? Anyway, I don't feel like talking about them now."
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Nov 5, 2012 16:41
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Guilty Spork posted:I think this is probably the right thread to post this: I always though this was a pretty interesting side effect of right wing media, telling them to vote for us and since that's worked so well may as well tell them to give us their money too. Gold Bonds, Life Lock, Commemorative Coins, jitterbug, homeopathic poo poo, shady retirement investments, you always see this same poo poo being advertised on Fox and any other right wing media. Get the elderly to vote against their own best interest and then bilk them with fraudulent schemes, it's the most predatory poo poo I've ever seen.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:11
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Gazpacho posted:Remember Rush did the NFL desk for a while then lost the job for talking race. That indicates to me that he's not quite faking and doesn't have much chance of "moving on". Also a guy with that kind of success tends to take on debts. My theory is that Rush started out just saying the rhetoric and not really believing it (maybe he believed bits of it), but after repeating the rhetoric for 20+ years and being supported and praised with little to no pushback he now actually does believe what he's saying. Essentially, he's turned into a "dittohead" himself after listening to himself for so long.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:18
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fade5 posted:My theory is that Rush started out just saying the rhetoric and not really believing it (maybe he believed bits of it), but after repeating the rhetoric for 20+ years and being supported and praised with little to no pushback he now actually does believe what he's saying. Essentially, he's turned into a "dittohead" himself after listening to himself for so long. That's a solid point. I remember watching quite a few documentaries about faith healers who started out cheating, with fake sick people being healed, earpieces telling them the details of the sheep they sudenly knew everything about due to the grace of God, but who slowly came to believe their own lies. Sure, the first faith cures were fake, but then other people came saying they were also healed by me. Surely I have real powers! And I'm doing it for the greater good! People wouldn't believe and defend me so if there wasn't something real about me. etc etc. Echo chambers do that. Especially those that reinforce themselves with tons of cash, influence and fame.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:31
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Kieselguhr Kid posted:You think the right wing punditosphere is some kind of long-running, totally cynical fraud and you think you're naive? It sounds more like paranoia to me. It's not like reactionary demagoguery is a new phenomenon. And it's never been more profitable.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:15
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There's a post to be made in here about libertarians and their enthusiastic embrace of Internet media, but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the culture to make that post myself. I used to identify as a Ron Paul libertarian but was never thoroughly ideological about it; after going to college and developing an appreciation for peer reviewed scholarship there wasn't much left to keep me interested in it. But there are hundreds of YouTube channels, Twitter feeds, and online think tanks that exist for the express purpose of endorsing libertarianism, Austrian School thought and anarcho-capitalism. You all know at least some of them and perhaps consumed them at one point yourself. I think that these are going to become more relevant to American political discourse as the Internet becomes even more culturally relevant and the radicalized GOP less so. These media have an appeal that can't be denied. Being a libertarian is sexy. It allows you to critique both sides of the US political divide and adopt a veneer of critical thinking, which these media celebrate. Being a libertarian is, of course, liberating. It makes you morally infallible in almost anything you choose to do and damns any and all who would coerce you in the name of a fictional commonwealth. Isn't that, after all, obviously true? Finally, being a libertarian is theoretically grounded. The libertarian media universe- Mises, Cato, Lew Rockwell, countless YouTube pundits, etc.- are right there to provide one the intellectual ammunition to combat statism in whatever creeping form it takes. You have moved beyond the politics of welfare apologists and pro-lifers to something greater. You have transcended left and right and embraced liberty. You know you have: these media have convinced you so. Most libertarians believe that they are out to change the social and political hegemony of the United States. What they fail to realize- or what they refuse to admit- is that they perpetuate the same bootstrapping, FYGM narrative that "mainstream" conservative media are trying so hard to propagate. If you dig deep enough into the libertarian media world you'll find all the hallmarks that lie just beneath the surface of today's GOP- fanatical hatred of government programs, zeal for privatization, distrust of academia, distaste for political correctness, and worse. This is a world that accepts the findings of science right up until they suggest that anthropogenic global warming is real, and the teachings of history unless they do anything less than offer glowing praise of laissez-faire capitalism. These libertarian media embody the core values shared by the myriad wings of the American conservative movement, and I believe they will become all the more important in the years to come. A new generation of people is growing up, one which has never known a world without the Internet. People who could give a gently caress less about traditional Republican social issues but who know that they like capitalism, dislike progressives, and love being able to click a web link for a quick, digestible Correct Opinion. These people are young libertarians, and if we want to be able to contend with them we have to understand where they get their opinions. This is why studying libertarian media is, in my view, just as important as studying any other kind of conservative media. the2ndgenesis fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 20:19
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the2ndgenesis posted:This is why studying libertarian media is, in my view, just as important as studying any other kind of conservative media. This is a great post. Lately I got back into collegiate debate and I've been shocked by the level that libertarianism has infiltrated the circuit, and college in general. I'm at a major urban state school, and the number of self-identified libertarians has been alarming. These are people who read literature about how power works, and then are fundamentally blind to how libertarianism would fall apart in about five minutes just due to the most basic, elementary applications of power relations. Libertarian thought gives me pause because it just a backdoor way for us to go back in time five-hundred years, to time of fiefdoms and petty lords. That they cannot see that, or even arrive at that conclusion by logical deduction, worries me. They just seem to think that everything would fall into place, it's utopianism by another name, and must be combated at every turn.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:37
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Vertical Lime posted:In more Rupert hates Christie stuff we have this editorial saying politicize Sandy or else: Wow. I did a double-take on that thinking it wasn't real. "Yes yes millions are out of power, many have lost their homes/businesses, more people at risk of dying, and several have already died...but you better politicize sandy or I'm coming after you as a traitor." Real empathy for the human beings there Rupe.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:44
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bloodysabbath posted:In 2008, Rush Limbaugh inked an 8 year contract for $400 million dollars. I have no idea if that includes his stupid side projects, like endorsing "Two if by Tea" beverage. He also has a private jet and a stable of exotic cars. Lots of things that take maintenance and depreciate in value. And that's not to mention things like grandiose (3rd or 4th) wedding where he got Elton John to sing. 400 million dollars is certainly in the "gently caress you" never have to work again range. If he was a savvy investor he could live well and leave a long lasting charitable foundation behind. But looking up Rush's spending habits, and he is exactly the type of person who would not only buy platinum toilet paper, but have matching platinum toilets in a 57 bathroom mansion. Again, the world has no shortage of rock stars, movie stars and athletes who's lifetime earnings where that huge, and later had little to show for it. Private jets are a huge money pit, and might be justifiable if you are the CEO of a mufti-national corporation and need to fly off at a moments notice to sign off on billion dollar deals. Rush isn't doing that, so he's just burning money on upkeep and hanger rental. Those stables of exotic cars will slowly rot in the garage. Housekeepers and landscapers are a constant drain. The parties and gaudy decorations have no real return and is just more money burning. And I'm sure he has a celebrity grade Dr. Feelgood or two, and that sort of discretion never comes cheap. But at least all that spending is good for the economy.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:46
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Gazpacho posted:Remember Rush did the NFL desk for a while then lost the job for talking race. That indicates to me that he's not quite faking and doesn't have much chance of "moving on". Also a guy with that kind of success tends to take on debts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGiTv_xRd5A Here's what cost him that job.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:47
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MC Nietzche posted:Libertarian thought gives me pause because it just a backdoor way for us to go back in time five-hundred years, to time of fiefdoms and petty lords. That they cannot see that, or even arrive at that conclusion by logical deduction, worries me. They just seem to think that everything would fall into place, it's utopianism by another name, and must be combated at every turn. I've had the same experience at my school. I found that talking to your average college libertarian for five minutes will melt away most of the bullshit philosophy. Libertarianism is so paper thin and baseless its easy to pick apart, and the nice thing is most libertarians I've met are thoughtful enough to have an honest intellectual discussion about their beliefs. It is obnoxious as hell when it goes unchallenged. My favorite is when libertarians clamor for Tort reform as a way to fix our healthcare system, only to turn around and say that Tort law is the best way for a society to regulate itself. Typical Pubbie fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 20:57
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Sephyr posted:That's a solid point. I remember watching quite a few documentaries about faith healers who started out cheating, with fake sick people being healed, earpieces telling them the details of the sheep they sudenly knew everything about due to the grace of God, but who slowly came to believe their own lies. It is definitely a solid concept. Especially given how many of these guys started their careers in non-political media, often had aspirations for something else, and then found a spot on the rght-wing gravy train filling in a couple times for some local pundit. I'm sure Rush loves the money and attention, but after hearing him opine about doing sport-talk over the years, I'm sure he would have been happier making that same money as the worlds premier NFL color commentator. Ironically, he blew his chance commenting on the "color" of a football player. Beck is an interesting case too. Former morning-zoo shock-jock (shocking enough to make fun of a miscarriage), he latter found (Mormon) Jesus and got national exposure being the official right-winger for CNN. Even his the story of his religious conversion is half-assed. The story goes, his family was shopping for a church because he figured they should be going to a church, and they settled on the LDS they visited because one of his kids liked it. If you listen to his show, he can't seem to help slipping back into the morning-zoo routine. And it becomes quite schizophrenic, as he'll go from laughing and talking back and forth with the other staff, and then slip back into some dire monologue when he seems to remember he's not getting paid for fun and games any more.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:10
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:It is definitely a solid concept. Especially given how many of these guys started their careers in non-political media, often had aspirations for something else, and then found a spot on the rght-wing gravy train filling in a couple times for some local pundit. On the other end of the spectrum, Cincinnati's most beloved mayor and city councilman was Jerry Springer, who ultimately left to do what he hoped would be a serious and progressive talk-show. Things didn't work out.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:12
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:He also has a private jet and a stable of exotic cars. Lots of things that take maintenance and depreciate in value. And that's not to mention things like grandiose (3rd or 4th) wedding where he got Elton John to sing. I thought he had one billion+? If so then he should easily be able to afford all those things, even at 1% interest thats 10mil a year not even counting his salary as well. Although to be fair now I have no idea how much a private jet costs to buy/maintain.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:19
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