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Having worked in telecom for a few years now I feel confident in saying that if we can accurately transmit a very finicky digital signal over miles of plain copper you really don't need to go crazy with a low frequency analog signal traveling just a few feet. It's a bit apples and oranges to be sure but I'm just glad that I never spent too much on high end wires.
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Nov 22, 2012 22:24
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Yeah, right, try to have a technical discussion about digital data transmission over at Head-Fi. They'll try to convince you that their quantum-adamantium fiber optic cables brighten the stereo image and bring deeper basses.
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Nov 22, 2012 22:28
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Well you see, the audio signal is very delicate and will completely change with every property change to the system no matter how minute. Cable is just TV and phone lines are just for voice; it doesn't matter what you use for those.
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Nov 22, 2012 22:32
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Combat Pretzel posted:Yeah, right, try to have a technical discussion about digital data transmission over at Head-Fi. They'll try to convince you that their quantum-adamantium fiber optic cables brighten the stereo image and bring deeper basses. This is part of what I find so confusing about head-fi, it's not really an insular community of people who spend far more money than they should on random audiophile crap, for the most part it's just people who like headphones and listening to music. For the most part it's so normal that it really blindsides me when you see someone who puts spikes on the bottom of his Mac Mini to reduce vibrations because he thinks it makes the music sound better, and then everyone just seems to agree with him that yes this would work why wouldn't it boy there's nothing weird about this guy. It feels like having a conversation with someone and they're nice, maybe a little too in to some hobby, then BAM they start talking about how homosexuality is a choice and you shouldn't have sex before you're married and AIDS and Obummer and liberals and all that stuff and you can never look at them the same way but you also never would have seen that kind of crazy coming at you -- this did happen to me in real life by the way, can't be friends with that guy anymore. piratepilates fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Nov 22, 2012 |
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Nov 22, 2012 22:46
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This is why vinylengine is somewhat tolerable for actual conversations about actual equipment. In a thread about how much your turntable/equipment cost, the answer was overwhelmingly 
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Nov 22, 2012 23:14
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:Well you see, the audio signal is very delicate and will completely change with every property change to the system no matter how minute. Cable is just TV and phone lines are just for voice; it doesn't matter what you use for those. Actually if you get oxygen-free cables for your TV then you'll get deeper blacks and truer reds.
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Nov 22, 2012 23:16
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Twiin posted:Actually if you get oxygen-free cables for your TV then you'll get deeper blacks and truer reds. Oh, and I don't mean "ABX" - that's too clinical and you won't get true results, you just need to live with the cable a while and you'll see it's better. I've done this with all my cables, and I've never regretted buying any of them. -- Paraphrased quote from a guy over at that logic-forsaken hellhole last time I used to register there to troll. I had to stop for my own sanity and internal vision of humanity. e: In case it's been forgotten, talking about scientific tests (ABXing) is actually banned on Head-Fi 
Khablam fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Nov 23, 2012 |
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Nov 23, 2012 00:33
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Khablam posted:e: In case it's been forgotten, talking about scientific tests (ABXing) is actually banned on Head-Fi Huh I didn't believe you but you're right, talking about ABX and placebos and such are restricted to the "Sound Science" forum that I somehow never noticed. edit: Which basically just seems to be this thread but on the same site that the other poo poo is on.
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Nov 23, 2012 00:40
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Khablam posted:It might be a digitally identical copy, but you can't say whether it's the same or better unless you've ABXed the two. I still can't believe that ABX is bankable over there. At least a few of the threads I have seen mention your brain as needing to adjust to new sound signatures in addition to the mythical "burn in."
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Nov 23, 2012 06:37
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I have seen stray videophiles before, doing the same shtick as the audiophile cable fetishists. Yeah, that 1000€ HDMI cable sure results in better colors...
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Nov 23, 2012 14:19
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Yeah but that HDMI bullshit is espoused down at even the lowest echelon of Best Buy shitheads shilling Monster Cables.
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Nov 23, 2012 15:43
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AlternateAccount posted:Yeah but that HDMI bullshit is espoused down at even the lowest echelon of Best Buy shitheads shilling Monster Cables. I have a friend who just got a 55" 3D TV and needed an HDMI cable. Rather than buy one for $5 from Amazon, he just couldn't wait and paid $40 for one from BB. Of course, he always tells me the specs of his TV like it makes a difference to me (it doesn't). I was not particularly impressed with the 3D effect.
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Nov 23, 2012 18:04
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AlternateAccount posted:Yeah but that HDMI bullshit is espoused down at even the lowest echelon of Best Buy shitheads shilling Monster Cables. I once accidentally bought a $150 HDMI cable. I thought it was $15 and I couldn't actually process the fact that the cable cost $150 until I was halfway out of the mall. I did a total cartoon WAITAMINUTE thing and went back into the store to get a refund. The dude tried to convince me that the hold-plated connectors made it better.
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Nov 23, 2012 18:56
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Twiin posted:I once accidentally bought a $150 HDMI cable. I thought it was $15 and I couldn't actually process the fact that the cable cost $150 until I was halfway out of the mall. I did a total cartoon WAITAMINUTE thing and went back into the store to get a refund. The dude tried to convince me that the hold-plated connectors made it better. You get this everywhere. When I think about this, I think some  ~Generic DVD-Rom~ I guess audiophiles just like to convince themselves it matters, and get stuck in an upgrade loop; convincing themselves their money is well spent, and in doing so must 'realize' what they're getting isn't ~perfect~ and so will upgrade... and loop.
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Nov 23, 2012 19:07
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I bought a $45 HDMI cable but it was a 30 foot run and has a built in booster. Those Mono price Red mere ones.
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Nov 23, 2012 19:07
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One thing where spending a lot of money actually makes a big difference is Subwoofers. Unless you're a DIY person. The difference between a $300 subwoofer which is good, to a $1200 sub is pretty big. After that price point you start getting into diminishing returns.
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Nov 23, 2012 19:18
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So is the "burn in" thing complete bullshit then? I mean, the idea of cables or electronics improving after a burn in period is ridiculous, but it's seems reasonable ( to me ) that speakers and headphones may not sound at their best after being sat in some warehouse for who knows how long. The booklet that came with my Monitor Audio speakers recommends that I wire them out of phase and position them facing each other for 12 hours before installing them properly. I've tried to look further into it but it's an exercise in futility, trudging through pages of audiophile wank is funny for a while but it's such a mindfuck.
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Nov 23, 2012 19:20
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Khablam posted:When I think about this, I think some It's just a man thing, we like to measure ourselves against our rivals in any way possible. Tech specs, horsepower, weightlifting, house size, clothes, watches, head hair, height, significant others etc. etc.. When you break it down, it's all just a dick measuring contest. And men happen to really like lists of stats. Check out every car review, every tech review, every piece of sports coverage ever. Stats, stats, stats. If item A has 20 more whatsits in stat X than item B does, it's automatically 20 more better. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Nov 23, 2012 |
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Nov 23, 2012 19:22
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jonathan posted:One thing where spending a lot of money actually makes a big difference is Subwoofers. Unless you're a DIY person. The difference between a $300 subwoofer which is good, to a $1200 sub is pretty big. After that price point you start getting into diminishing returns. Speakers in general really. Vandersteen 2CEs are less than two grand (last I knew) and you'd be hard pressed to improve on them for any reasonable amount of money.
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Nov 23, 2012 19:29
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Egg in soup posted:So is the "burn in" thing complete bullshit then? However, the audiophile will go further, claiming one needs to burn them in for 150 hours of sine waves, followed by 72 of white noise, yadda yadda. Of course, only they can hear the effect because their ears are special. Most tend to normalise after about 10hrs of normal use, or so. If cables did change characteristics with use, it would be after 10's of 1000's of hours. They don't, more to the point. People who burn in HDMI cables are a special type of subhuman whose only larger concern in life is what the chemtrail weather is like today.
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Nov 23, 2012 19:44
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Khablam posted:If its something with a moving part, then performance will absolutely change after X hours of usage. Headphones will be something it's most noticeable on; midrange treble can be massively lacking until they've been played a little while. It's not subjective either, reviewers occasionally measure it. Thanks for this, it confirms what I thought and have experienced myself with new speakers and headphones. Whenever I've tried to read further into it I've come across exactly what you describe, nutters taking things into the realms of absurdity. Not sure if this has already been posted in here but I found this today. http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm quote:...features 3 sub-atomic particle accelerators on SPDIF data transmission. Edit: Oh so it's a hoax, right? quote:It is a TIME MACHINE that returns back in time, restoring completely the recording by eliminating all the distortion accumulated by the recording processing. It is completely passive, no power feeding. Egg in soup fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Nov 23, 2012 |
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Nov 23, 2012 20:21
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:Speakers in general really. Vandersteen 2CEs are less than two grand (last I knew) and you'd be hard pressed to improve on them for any reasonable amount of money. Many incredibly expensive HiFi speakers actually use drivers that cost no more than $1200 a piece. Saw some Korean brand that had top of their range at $30k plus for off the shelf fibreglass horns and midrange drivers.
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Nov 23, 2012 21:31
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Egg in soup posted:speakers and headphones may not sound at their best after being sat in some warehouse for who knows how long. Depends how long you define as a long time. Vintage speakers will suffer from rotting of suspension material, particularly foams. Speakers should be considered as an item with moving parts and overhauled appropriately.
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Nov 23, 2012 22:56
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Every material on earth has a certain degree of elasticity. Unless you're overdriving your speakers like hell, the vibrations aren't going to shake the suspension materials apart, unless they degrade chemically (rot or whatever).
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Nov 24, 2012 00:59
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Bob Crites has this writeup on speaker break in. I take his opinion as fact.quote:Frequently Asked Questions
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Nov 24, 2012 03:57
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If you have to break-in electronic equipment wouldn't it make most sense to buy used?
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Nov 24, 2012 12:01
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Boiled Water posted:If you have to break-in electronic equipment wouldn't it make most sense to buy used? But then you couldn't be sure that it was broken in with the correct sequence of white noise and Hansi Hinterseer schlagerhits 
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Nov 24, 2012 12:09
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Boiled Water posted:If you have to break-in electronic equipment wouldn't it make most sense to buy used? Did you miss the bit where the break-in period is like an hour at a decent volume? Unless you're suggesting I follow people home from Best Buy and try to purchase their sound systems after they've listened to a couple of Justin Timberlake CDs.
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Nov 24, 2012 18:47
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I think I tried to apply sense to audiophiles.
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Nov 24, 2012 18:50
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I changed the locks on an audiophile's house recently, he spent half the time complaining about the girl that left him and the other half explaining how much his audio set up cost and how awesome it was. I got bored about half way through and just noted the brands. Most of the setup was Gryphon, with this turntable http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10143080-1.html He had "do not touch" signs on everything, including his cable risers. Crazy bastard, wish I'd taken pictures.
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Nov 25, 2012 10:58
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Fanelien posted:I changed the locks on an audiophile's house recently, he spent half the time complaining about the girl that left him and the other half explaining how much his audio set up cost and how awesome it was. I got bored about half way through and just noted the brands. Most of the setup was Gryphon, with this turntable In other news I fully expect to be banned from Head fi for suggesting that people listen and decide on what to buy for themselves rather than go on charts and graphs. That and for suggesting that many high end products would ALL sound good!
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Nov 25, 2012 17:49
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Ultimate Mango posted:In other news I fully expect to be banned from Head fi for suggesting that people listen and decide on what to buy for themselves rather than go on charts and graphs. No, that's actually pretty much in line with standard audiophile reasoning. According to them, science and measurements are not to be trusted because your ears are much finer instruments for determining sound quality than some fancy piece of test equipment. Apparently, measuring sound takes all the 'feeling' and 'emotion' out of it.
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Nov 25, 2012 17:54
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Fanelien posted:I changed the locks on an audiophile's house recently, he spent half the time complaining about the girl that left him and the other half explaining how much his audio set up cost and how awesome it was. I like how he was unable to see the connection between his behaviour and why she left.
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Nov 25, 2012 18:53
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Fanelien posted:He had "do not touch" signs on everything, including his cable risers. Crazy bastard, wish I'd taken pictures. Those were probably made just for you 
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Nov 25, 2012 22:10
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Why do you need four tone arms?
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Nov 25, 2012 22:33
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It's like a mechanical comb filter.
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Nov 25, 2012 22:51
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I can see the advantage of having a different tonearm for cartridges for 78, mono microgroove and stereo, but you can do the same thing with detachable headshells.
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Nov 25, 2012 22:53
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jonathan posted:Bob Crites has this writeup on speaker break in. I take his opinion as fact. Just wanted to pop in and say that Bob Crites is an awesome guy to deal with, replies to emails within minutes and really knows his stuff. He won't steer you wrong. Very reasonable prices as well. I'm eyeing some of his CT125 tweeters for my Cornwalls.
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Nov 25, 2012 23:48
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Ron Burgundy posted:I can see the advantage of having a different tonearm for cartridges for 78, mono microgroove and stereo, but you can do the same thing with detachable headshells. Detachable headshells = one more connection. Connections are bad. In professional gear this is actually a problem since the headshell connectors tend to get dirty over time with people swapping carts/headshells all the time (and licking the loving connector instead of cleaning it). Of course, they have to be detachable to be useful so...
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Nov 26, 2012 07:39
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Jerry Cotton posted:and licking the loving connector instead of cleaning it This is 100% a lovely club DJ thing.
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Nov 26, 2012 08:19
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