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Super Aggro Crag posted:Please god let them be just as sexy as the originals. But how are they gonna fit T-tops on a sedan.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:38
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I know the original had a low-power V6, but Dodge already had the Charger filling in that part of the market. Maybe I'm just tired of seeing the V6 models of both the Charger & Challenger being put on ridiculously large wheels.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:41
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And a V8 M3 is a watering down of the legacy of a straight-six M3 which is a watering down of the legacy of a straight-four M3!  It's nowhere near as bad as what Ford did with the 1990's "RS2000". Especially after they had the balls to make this advert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxj-8dvDe3M
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Nov 26, 2012 22:41
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BabyMauler posted:They didn't destroy anything? Low end Challengers in 70s came with a Slant6. They are just doing with the Challenger what Ford and Chevy are doing with the Mustang/Camaro. V6 models for volume, V8s on the upper end of that, and than that cash get funneled into crazy town low volume projects like the GT500 and ZL1. Next gen Challenger is going smaller and on a different platform, if they even keep that nameplate. I think looking down on V6s is really quite silly these days, considering, for example, that the current V6 Mustang produces more horsepower than the old V8 did as recently as 2010. The F-150 with the V6 EcoBoost is doing incredibly well in a market where V8s were incredibly dominant. Certainly the V6 used to be an underpowered, cheap-out sort of option on these vehicles, but I think that is getting to be less and less the case.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:41
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More importantly, the reason the V8 performance versions of those cars are affordable is because of the sales volume generated by all the cheap base models with a V6 and automatic they sell paying for the development costs of the whole platform.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:44
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Cream_Filling posted:More importantly, the reason the V8 performance versions of those cars are affordable is because of the sales volume generated by all the cheap base models with a V6 and automatic they sell paying for the development costs of the whole platform. And frankly, at least with the Mustang, I notice just as many V8s with autos as V6s, not counting the rental fleet. A lot of them are being driven by 50-60 year old men who want to recapture their youth, but don't want to deal with the hassle of a clutch when idling to their office job every morning.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:47
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Devyl posted:I know the original had a low-power V6, but Dodge already had the Charger filling in that part of the market. Maybe I'm just tired of seeing the V6 models of both the Charger & Challenger being put on ridiculously large wheels. When I see this I do the mental math for how much it would have cost to get a V8 and how much they spent on those ugly loving wheels and its probably even or less for the V8. That's not the car's fault though. Some people want the cool style but really don't care about anything else, and don't want the premium on gas and insurance. Their money is as green as ours.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:47
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Sorry about the V8 rant derail. It just kinda strikes a nerve. Anyhow, back to the GNX news, it appears the new Grand National might be the replacement for the upcoming Holden Commodore. quote:Note, there’s another twist to this story. One of the key people behind the project, GM’s North American boss Mark Reuss, is a previous GNX owner. He also happened to be the boss of GM’s Australian division Holden during 2008 and 2009, which has led to speculation that a version of the new Buick Grand National may serve as the Holden Commodore that’s due after the upcoming VF Commodore (nee Chevy SS) has run its course, which is currently scheduled for some time in 2018. link
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Nov 26, 2012 22:55
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Devyl posted:Sorry about the V8 rant derail. It just kinda strikes a nerve. Anyhow, back to the GNX news, it appears the new Grand National might be the replacement for the upcoming Holden Commodore. I'm just glad V8s are still being planned for non-specialty vehicles going to market in 2018. Hopefully this car isn't $50k
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Nov 26, 2012 23:03
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AdmiralViscen posted:I'm just glad V8s are still being planned for non-specialty vehicles going to market in 2018. Even if it's not $50k, what's gas gonna be like in 2018? I hope some of those cylinders turn off on the highway :P
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Nov 26, 2012 23:16
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Holy god if it's good looking I swear I'll buy a new GNX.
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Nov 26, 2012 23:29
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davebo posted:Even if it's not $50k, what's gas gonna be like in 2018? I hope some of those cylinders turn off on the highway :P I'm pretty sure cylinder deactivation is already a part of the new small block. Throw in e-assist/start-stop/8speed whatever and I'm sure it will get acceptable fuel economy. I can't wait to see the 8 speed in the 300C.
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Nov 26, 2012 23:51
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Cream_Filling posted:The funny thing is that the Cadillac ATS, suitably blacked out, is closer to that ideal than the current Regal is. Everyone seems to think a new GN would be based on the ATS.
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Nov 27, 2012 00:03
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AdmiralViscen posted:I'm pretty sure cylinder deactivation is already a part of the new small block. Throw in e-assist/start-stop/8speed whatever and I'm sure it will get acceptable fuel economy. It'll have to be one he'll of an improvement. The current Commodore V8 is rated at 12.3l/100km with the 6AT and the V6 is 9.7l/100km it won't take much of a rise in fuel prices to kill the V8 entirely (given the six already offers pretty good performance)
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Nov 27, 2012 01:28
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dissss posted:It'll have to be one he'll of an improvement. The current Commodore V8 is rated at 12.3l/100km with the 6AT and the V6 is 9.7l/100km it won't take much of a rise in fuel prices to kill the V8 entirely (given the six already offers pretty good performance) Modern V8s are getting pretty efficient with cylinder deactivation and stop start etc. The 5.5L V8 in the new SLK55 AMG manages 19 city 28 highway mpg while producing 415hp.
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Nov 27, 2012 01:53
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Whatever this new car is it's not going to be an old GNX. The old GNX was a mediocre everyday car that was hopped up to be faster than a Corvette in a straight line. It was a product of its time and that time is long gone. The truth of it today is that everyday cars are much heavier and more gadget laden while still not being that fast while actual sports cars are hugely faster. Mustang GTs have 400+hp and the next base model Corvette probably close to 500hp. There's nothing you can do to a FWD family car today to get anywhere close to that kind of performance at all, let alone do it economically. At *best* this will just be a Buick rebadge of a Camaro, or small Cadillac, and why do we need that? The only thing stopping you guys from just buying a Camaro was that it didn't have a Buick badge? And that's the best case scenario. The realistic scenario is that it will just be some mildly hopped up FWD Acura TL/Lexus ES competitor. This is literally one of those ideas that "made sense when GM has 10 brands/50+% market share, not anymore", if I can paraphrase their bankruptcy PSA. Every company competes globally these days and brands need to be focused. Buick's focus should not be on mega-performance cars, none of their other cars fit that image, what's the point of making this one. What they *needed* to have done yesterday was a credible full size cruiser-barge replacement for the old Park Ave/LeSabre, it doesn't need to beat a Corvette in a straight line, just be conservatively styled, smooth and quite with a luxury interior for a premium-but-still-below-Cadillac price. The Chinese market Park Avenue would have been a perfect fit. All the work has already been done and they are essentially bring the car over anyway as the Pontiac G8/Chevy cop car, but apparently going the logical next step *that will cost them almost nothing* while giving Holden some much needed production is just too smart for GM. The length isn't clear without a side profile but this is a full size, BMW 7 series size car.          This car was released in 2007. We are now at year 5 of this car not being sold in the US. I have actually sat inside these and I can tell you that the interior is an excellent fit for the brand. There isn't any flashy chrome or carbon fiber or any fancy poo poo, the dash and console material is actually fairly humdrum, but the leather seating surfaces are very high quality German-supplied leather and the back seat amenities very good. Exactly where Buick should be vis a vis Cadillac(well, Cadillac today. Back then it was better than any Cadillac). Again, bringing it to the US would have cost them nothing, because they 've already spent the money bringing over the Pontiac G8, the same car except with the wrong badge and a cheaper interior that no one bought before they shut the brand down(they lost money on each G8 they sold), and the current Chevy cop car, the same car with a cop car interior that they won't sell to civilians. GM is the worst car company.  Also their naming scheme sucks. The Regal, fine, but if we're all going retro with the names why isn't the Lacrosse called the LeSabre, the Enclave called the Roadmaster and the Verano the Skylark? Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 02:04
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Rhyno posted:Everyone seems to think a new GN would be based on the ATS. Well, they did say Alpha platform, and right now the ATS is the only car riding on it. Also in the realm of possibility: The Holden Coupe 60 concept from 2008, which dates back to when the Buick guy was at Holden, I believe.   Obviously not necessarily styling (through a lot of Buicks are rebadged Opels here right now, and Opel sells a rebadged Holden, too) Probably the point of bringing it over would be as a halo car and also maybe another bone to throw at GM australia. And yes, I never understood why they didn't bring over the Holden Caprice/Statesman / Buick Park Avenue. Or at least do another one-off like the old B-body Impala SS. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 02:12
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Throatwarbler posted:The Chinese market Park Avenue would have been a perfect fit. It looks beautiful. I would actually buy that car, just to have someone drive me around while I sat in the backseat. But then again, that's the problem you have. The Asian market prefers luxury cars to cater to the passengers, while it seems the American market wants to cater to those up front. We need to meet in the middle somewhere.
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Nov 27, 2012 02:21
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Devyl posted:It looks beautiful. I would actually buy that car, just to have someone drive me around while I sat in the backseat. But then again, that's the problem you have. The Asian market prefers luxury cars to cater to the passengers, while it seems the American market wants to cater to those up front. We need to meet in the middle somewhere. The Commodore/Caprice/Statesmen all drive pretty well, especially with a big V8 and hopped up suspensions. I mean, they're basically fatter Camaros.
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Nov 27, 2012 02:25
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Reminder: Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne: Stops interview cold and threatens to kill journalist because she offhandedly suggested that the LX platfom is "Mercedes based", a popular incorrect internet car forum meme. http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2011/02/10/qa-sergio-marchionne/ GM CEO Dan Ackerson: Admits to press that he "isn't a car guy", endlessly rushing unready products to market. There was one where he admitted he doesn't know where the engine on a Volt even is but I can't find the article now. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/general-motors-ceo-dan-akerson-is-not-a-car-guy-08252011.html.
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Nov 27, 2012 02:54
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Content: New Maserati Quattroporte will be 206in long, same size as the new jag XJ I think. Will have eithe ra 430hp twin turbo V6 with possible AWD or a 530hp Ferrari V8, presumably with a crossplane crank instead of a flatplane crank. http://www.maseratiexclusive.com/content.php?8-Engine-details-revealed-for-the-2014-Maserati-Quattroporte&s=7af6e11b158ab3ceb97323d3af596f7d The interesting thing for me is that they are offering AWD. The current gen Qporte is the only sedan on the market to use a rear transaxle, like a Corvette, which allows them to shove the engine all the way back into the firewall and basically make it the world's only mid-engined full size sedan.   How are they going to make it AWD when the entire front axle is in front of the engine? The Nissan GTR, another car with a rear transaxle, does this by running a second driveshaft from the transmission back to the front of the car, but the GTR's engine is still only on top of the front axle, not behind it, so how will they do it? Do you think maybe they will use a version of the Ferrari FF's system where they run another transfer box in front of the engine?  Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 02:54
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It's been a terribly kept secret that Ford is building a Fiesta ST. Ford finally confirmed that the car will debut at the LA auto show next week. Instead of the widely speculated 180 hp, the 1.6L Turbo will make 197 hp.quote:A new high-output variant of the award-winning 1.6-liter EcoBoost® four-cylinder engine propels Fiesta ST with an estimated 197 horsepower and 214 lb.-ft. of torque. In comparison, Mini Cooper S makes do with 181 horsepower and 177 lb.-ft., while Chevrolet Sonic RS produces just 138 horsepower and 148 lb.-ft. It it ends up being a 75% Focus ST it will be wonderful. I hope it's available with the Recaro seats out of Focus without being part of a bajillion dollar option package.
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Nov 27, 2012 03:10
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Shame it's only in a 5 door though. A 3 door would look much nicer.
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Nov 27, 2012 03:16
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Throatwarbler posted:Reminder: Uh, he was jokingly saying that the platform developer would kill her if he heard her say that. It's just an expression. Sergio Marchionne isn't threatening to murder anybody.
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Nov 27, 2012 03:16
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Throatwarbler posted:How are they going to make it AWD when the entire front axle is in front of the engine? The Nissan GTR, another car with a rear transaxle, does this by running a second driveshaft from the transmission back to the front of the car, but the GTR's engine is still only on top of the front axle, not behind it, so how will they do it? Do you think maybe they will use a version of the Ferrari FF's system where they run another transfer box in front of the engine? Isn't that the system that Jeremy Clarkson & the Stig kept breaking?
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Nov 27, 2012 03:17
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Devyl posted:It looks beautiful. I would actually buy that car, just to have someone drive me around while I sat in the backseat. But then again, that's the problem you have. The Asian market prefers luxury cars to cater to the passengers, while it seems the American market wants to cater to those up front. We need to meet in the middle somewhere. I think this is somewhat of a misunderstanding of the Asian market to think that all Asian luxury cars are chauffer driven. I mean some are but it's not really all that prevalent as you might think. A better way to look at it is that the back seats of most cars in Asia actually get used a lot more than the back seats of cars in America. The level of car ownership is much lower in Asian countries than America, even rich ones like Japan, due to high government imposed costs on car ownership, either through hig road tolls, gas prices, actual limits on registration like in many Chinese cities where people just aren't allowed to buy cars, huge congestion in major cities, parking, the Japanese scrappage scheme that eliminates old used cars, etc. So your typical urban city dweller in Asia might not have a car even if he could afford one, and he is much more likely to bum rides/car pool with others in a major city simply because of the congestion, and similarly a household of 4 or 5 people might only have 1 car because that's all they have space for. So in these cases the comfort of the back seat passengers is more important than in America where there are 3 F-350 Superdutys per capita and even middle class high school students often own their own cars. If you are am American who owns a 5 series BMW it's very unlikely that you'll have a whole bunch of friends and relatives who don't own cars at all, so who is ever going to sit in your back seat?
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Nov 27, 2012 03:21
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Throatwarbler posted:Reminder: He is actually talking about the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Which I see listed as being based of the ML Mercedes, which EVERYONE seems to forget that the ML was a flaming piece of poo poo until they built a completely new one....Based off the last gen JGC. But its also true the LX was not a Mercedes platform either, the LX was nearly done before the raping and pillaging began, and they actually delayed its introduction to include some mercedes parts in the new car to show how "unified" they were. In reality, Daimler came in, shifted all of Mercedes losses to Chrysler, allegedly took the Viper platform for the SLS, killed the real replacement for the Neon, gave us classics like the Sebring and Avenger, and disappeared with Chrysler's 6 Billion in cash.
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Nov 27, 2012 03:36
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Mighty Horse posted:He is actually talking about the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Which I see listed as being based of the ML Mercedes, which EVERYONE seems to forget that the ML was a flaming piece of poo poo until they built a completely new one....Based off the last gen JGC. Oops, yeah I was going off memory and just threw up the link after a quick search. The M-class connection doesn't really line up with the dates, the second generation M-class came out in 2005, the current GC and Durango was supposed to have been released in 2008, at the same time the GL was released. I think it's probably better to say that the GC/Durango if anything have more in common with the last gen GL than the 2005 ML.
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Nov 27, 2012 03:49
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Cream_Filling posted:The Commodore/Caprice/Statesmen all drive pretty well, especially with a big V8 and hopped up suspensions. I mean, they're basically fatter Camaros. Actually the kerb weight of a V8 Camaro SS is over 1745 kgs and a V8 Commodore is about 1760kgs. It's literally just dealer options in it. No denying tho the Commodore isnt a bad thing to drive these days but given the sales figures it's got problems.
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Nov 27, 2012 04:18
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Tacier posted:Uh, he was jokingly saying that the platform developer would kill her if he heard her say that. It's just an expression. Sergio Marchionne isn't threatening to murder anybody. On the other hand, Akerson really is as retarded and tone-deaf as he sounds. My favorite Akerson line was the quote where, after his first review of GM's marketing efforts, he complains that the ads focusing on fuel efficiency saying "why talk about something nobody cares about? You put gas in the car and you go". I will have to find the original quote. also: quote:His path to GM began about two years ago. A former Naval Academy engineering student and ship officer (he ran the ship’s power plant), he was at Carlyle in 2009 leading the global buyout unit. But he had followed GM’s troubles closely, and, hoping to get on its board, spoke to a colleague who knew the Treasury Department’s GM point person, Ron Bloom.” OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 04:45
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Throatwarbler posted:Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne [...] quote:Forbes: Tell me about your plans for Alfa Romeo in the U.S.
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Nov 27, 2012 04:58
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One reason I wouldn't buy a Camaro is that I think they look like total rear end. The current Buick styling is gorgeous and a performance RWD Buick makes my mouth water. But many of your other points are valid Throat.
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Nov 27, 2012 05:03
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Mighty Horse posted:In reality, Daimler came in, shifted all of Mercedes losses to Chrysler, allegedly took the Viper platform for the SLS, killed the real replacement for the Neon, gave us classics like the Sebring and Avenger, and disappeared with Chrysler's 6 Billion in cash. I'm a Mopar guy, I wish this little tidbit would get publicized more. Chrysler was on the upswing until MB loving salted the earth there. I have unreasonable hate for MB now, especially since they have a reputation from 20 years ago of being quality cars despite the fact that their poo poo is built for a two year life cycle the last decade. e- AMG stuff is sufficiently crazy to get a pass, though. Gimme a Black Series anything, please.
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Nov 27, 2012 05:37
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Wow I can't believe they're bringing back the turbo Buicks from the 80's. That could be so amazing. Now just get that El Camino project back in the tubes and I'll be good to go. edit BabyMauler posted:They didn't destroy anything? Low end Challengers in 70s came with a Slant6. They are just doing with the Challenger what Ford and Chevy are doing with the Mustang/Camaro. V6 models for volume, V8s on the upper end of that, and than that cash get funneled into crazy town low volume projects like the GT500 and ZL1. Next gen Challenger is going smaller and on a different platform, if they even keep that nameplate. Aren't they changing it to the Barracuda for the next generation? If it looks anything like the original, that'd be something. 
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Nov 27, 2012 05:38
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Sir Tonk posted:Aren't they changing it to the Barracuda for the next generation? That's the rumor. Smaller, lighter, possibly a supercharged 6.4L, badged as a SRT 'Cuda, instead of Dodge or Chrysler. Who knows, though. e- fun fact, the Barracuda was released a few weeks before the Mustang in 1964, but the Ford PR machine was much stronger. People think the Mustang was the first pony car, but it wasn't, the first gen Barracuda was. Ugly as all get out though, jesus gently caress. Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 05:40
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VikingSkull posted:Ugly as all get out though, jesus gently caress. Yeah I'd have a Valiant from that era, but the 2nd and 3rd gen versions weren't all bad. Challenger, Road Runner, and Demon all looked way better though. And all I really want is an old AMC Rebel Machine.
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Nov 27, 2012 05:50
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So if they are doing a new GN the articles say it wouldn't be til 2015, that gives me over 24 months to start saving!
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Nov 27, 2012 05:54
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Sir Tonk posted:Yeah I'd have a Valiant from that era, but the 2nd and 3rd gen versions weren't all bad. Challenger, Road Runner, and Demon all looked way better though. If I had to go early 60's Mopar, Dodge Polara all the way. 
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Nov 27, 2012 06:10
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Throatwarbler posted:The interesting thing for me is that they are offering AWD. The current gen Qporte is the only sedan on the market to use a rear transaxle, like a Corvette, which allows them to shove the engine all the way back into the firewall and basically make it the world's only mid-engined full size sedan. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2007-maserati-quattroporte-automatic-first-drive-review quote:Up to now, the Maserati Quattroporte was a fine, sporty luxury sedan that was let down by one thing — its DuoSelect transmission, an automated manual similar to the one used by stablemate Ferrari in the F430 and 599GTB. Instant, brutal gearshifts seem to enhance the race-car-style experience in an F430, and the clunky automatic mode doesn't seem to be a problem, either.
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Nov 27, 2012 06:15
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Throatwarbler posted:Oops, yeah I was going off memory and just threw up the link after a quick search. The M-class connection doesn't really line up with the dates, the second generation M-class came out in 2005, the current GC and Durango was supposed to have been released in 2008, at the same time the GL was released. I think it's probably better to say that the GC/Durango if anything have more in common with the last gen GL than the 2005 ML. I'm pretty sure it was the ML, I think was derived (partially) off the WK platform that Chrysler was working on and debuted around the same time. I recall Dr Z saying something to the effect of them "learning a lot from the jeep" to help the new ML, which up until the 2nd gen was one of the least reliable cars in the industry. Of course I can't find anything now, because a search turns up nothing but references to the WK2 being a "Mercedes" platform.
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Nov 27, 2012 06:18
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