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That loving Sned posted:Because if there's one thing DMC players hate, it's playing through the same levels but with substantially different weapons and abilities. I didn't mind the backtracking or the recycled bosses so much (though I wouldn't have minded a full length Dante mode with his own unique ones), it was the fact that you get so used to playing as Nero and his more limited (but fun) style, and then suddenly you're given Dante and his deeper, more complex (and more) style, and it's like starting all over again. And then when you're starting to get to grips with Dante, you're back to Nero again, and then you have to re-adjust. What they should have done is do what they did in 2 (aside from the being awful part), and had Dante and Nero have full length seperate or occasionaly intertwining stories, where you get used to playing as the same guy without fliping back and forth. wildzero posted:Maybe I missed a post about this but I know that the style meter only seems to go down if you get hit, but is score now based on damage dealt instead of actual move variety? Yes. It basically means that the angel attack is pretty much useless for the meter, because of the piddling damage it does, so the axe will just rocket up the meter faster. Too fast, in fact. Basically they've got some major balancing issues they need to sort out for the final release. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 01:17
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Played the demo, here's what I thought. The bones of the combat, in general, seem to take a lot from DMC4 (which I quite liked). Dante's combat style seems like a mix of Nero and Dante from DMC4, but with a HUGE chunk of what made Dante's fighting style interesting torn out completely. The combat is way too easy, and not very interesting. The Angel weapon seems pretty useless except against those enemies that happen to be invulnerable to everything else. The controls are probably the most difficult thing about the demo. They're so different, and I haven't really bothered getting used to them because I have better things to play (didn't stop me from destroying the demo though). I really wish they'd implemented a lock-on system, because apart from making the combat more precise and allowing me to gauge how much health enemies have left, it means I don't have to use a separate button to launch/slam enemies. This is a total waste of a button, which could have been used for better things (like a style button). The boss is absolutely awful and doesn't test your combat abilities at all. You stand there motionless for about 6 seconds waiting for her to swing so you can parry, then you pull her (in a cutscene, in which she makes the most annoying screech sound ever, which you WILL hear about 10 times before the battle's over), attack her a bit, and then do some platforming. I mean come on! The music is pretty awful, the dialogue is frankly embarrassing, just bleh overall. Also the sound kept cutting out on her stage (I'm on PS3 and I have never had this issue with any other game, before or since). The visuals are a mixed bag. I don't mind the enemy designs, and the environmental design is pretty cool. Things animate quite nicely. The only problem is that things look quite rough graphically! There's an annoying amount of pixellation and I didn't care for all the blurring going on. All of that is secondary to the fact that the game can't even hold 30fps, which is terrible for a DMC game! DMC4 ran at 60 and had better anti-aliasing! Overall just not impressed. Buck Turgidson fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 01:58
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Uncle Wemus posted:Could you or someone else actually explain the old DMC combat system and why it worked? Im not trying to say it sucked I played the old ones and loved them but I never really understood to combat in a way that i could explain. The primary focal point of the DMC combat system was aggression and variety. The style mechanics rewarded you for being aggressive and all-in, discouraging 'safe' defensive play and rewarding you for staying in on enemies even when they are attacking/being aggressive themselves. Likewise, your score would not allow you to use only a small subset of moves so you not only had to stay in AND switch up what you were doing. It was a game that encouraged basically being crazy balls-in as often as possible. There were a lot of little things you could do to basically be aggressive in the way you chose. A lot of action games encourage a "turtling" sort of gameplay where you stay back, wait until the enemy is vulnerable, do a simple combo and repeat. Even if it offers an aggressive option (the parry mechanic in God of War or Lords of Shadow for example) it's still a fairly defensive-minded game. DMC (and Bayonetta) are extremely aggressive games with your special mechanics designed to encourage and reward going full-in even though it is dangerous. That is the primary problem with the new system. The Style mechanics does reward variety (to a degree), but not aggression. Likewise, the variety we're shown in the demo is dire. In DMC1, 3 and 4, new weapons represent a completely different playstyle. Here the axe is literally "heavy attack" and the scythe is only slightly better. Maybe upgraded they'll show more variety but the demo gives a poor showing. So the variety you're encouraged to do basically amounts to "do an air combo" and "hold a button and do a slightly different combo" instead of a different playstyle. Again, this could be a bad demo, but the implication is worrying.Not to mention that it appears that style counts damage dealt more than variety, discouraging lengther-but-weaker combos in favor of just whatever deals the most damage. This goes hand-in-hand with the removal of taunt, which reduces the emphasis on style (The DMC system's defining characteristic) and increases the emphasis on pure damage dealing. The boss battle suffers from the same discouragement of aggression. There's no reason to take risks. You easily SSS rank the boss by hanging back (forcing the boss into one of two attacks, only one of which is remotely threatening) and parrying attacks. You don't even have to watch your footing because falling off the cliff doesn't reduce your style meter. There's no reason to go balls-in and put yourself at risk for greater reward. Play defensively and safely and the SSS rank is yours. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 02:16
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Hell there's no point in even getting close to the boss, you can't hurt it at all till you bring it down.
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Nov 27, 2012 03:56
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Wait, how do I parry in the demo? I don't think I did that once, because I tried to be aggressive.
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Nov 27, 2012 04:27
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Wait, how do I parry in the demo? I don't think I did that once, because I tried to be aggressive. All you do is swing your sword at an enemy's attack, it'll parry with a fairly large window.
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Nov 27, 2012 04:35
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Wait, how do I parry in the demo? I don't think I did that once, because I tried to be aggressive. "Sword clash" basically. As long as your hit animation interrupts theirs you'll parry.
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Nov 27, 2012 04:37
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The angel weapon is not useless, its for crowd control and air combos. It also does more damage the longer you use it uninterrupted. Its a little more nuanced than the axe with its heavy hitting basic combos.
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Nov 27, 2012 10:02
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Didn't realize this was out, so I only just tried it. I spent the entire first level wrestling with the controls. Not having a lock-on just messed me up completely, but I eventually got used to it. I still find it hilarious there's two evade buttons which do exactly the same thing but no taunt button. I do like how the Launch button functions as a "knock-down" button in the air, though. I'm assuming the choppy framerate during cutscenes is a stylistic thing but it looks like poo poo. I kinda like the Angel/Devil grab mechanic, even if I'm still trying to remember which is which. Are there any directional input moves in the game? I kept trying to do Stingers and such and just kept screwing myself over. I tried SoS mode, and the problems with having no lock-on became apparent very quickly. No, game, I was trying to Devil grab the flying angel dude, not the currently-immune-to-grabs chainsaw guy.  I liked the enemy design though, except those terrible Red and Blue enemies (the ones who are only vulnerable to one weapon). Throw them both together with no lock-on and it's an exercise in frustration, and not in a good way.Also, am I the only one who finds the weapon switching to be rather laggy sometimes? Quite often, I'd try to Devil grab a guy only to find myself firing Ebony and Ivory at him. Maybe it's just my controller. The boss fight was a complete joke. She assaults your ears with abysmal dialogue and horrible, endless screaming and shouting, sometimes overlapping. My god. And I thought you guys were joking about the Slurm thing, but nope, it really is just the Slurm idea lifted straight from Futurama.  I tried to get in her face for a while to fight her, but it feels like it takes forever. I backed off and parried instead, which finished her so much faster. Not very DMC-ish. I also had to laugh when I backed off for the first time and she just stared at me for 6+ seconds doing nothing. Overall I had fun with it, but it doesn't feel even remotely like a Devil May Cry to me. Buck Turgidson posted:Also the sound kept cutting out on her stage (I'm on PS3 and I have never had this issue with any other game, before or since). This happened for me, too. The sound cuts out extremely often throughout the demo, but most often in the boss fight. It even cut out during a loading screen for several seconds. Hopefully it's just a problem with the demo.
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Nov 27, 2012 10:58
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Am I the only one who found there to be some input drop or lag on the ps3 demo? Didn't like the feel of it too much, but other than that, seemed like a fun game. The weirdest part was getting used to having a reserved button for the launcher.
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Nov 27, 2012 11:11
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AccountingNightmare posted:Also, am I the only one who finds the weapon switching to be rather laggy sometimes? Quite often, I'd try to Devil grab a guy only to find myself firing Ebony and Ivory at him. Maybe it's just my controller. No I was having this problem as well. It was just awkward because I'd be trying to do something specific and I'd have no idea why Dante didn't do what I wanted him to, because the weapon switching just didn't work in time.
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Nov 27, 2012 11:12
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For those of you having trouble with the controls, somebody posted earlier in this thread to bind the angel/demon triggers to the L/R1 buttons instead of L/R2, then use L2 for dodge and R2 for Devil Trigger. That helped me out a lot, it feels closer to the DMC game that my fingers keep trying to play.
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Nov 27, 2012 11:17
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Combichrist DmC songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXYylTTqbQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cJAC64zY-c And the demo is now available on the regular Xbox marketplace for the tightwads like me, who don't have a gold access. Everything that I could say about it has already been said before, and in greater depth. Suffice to say, it's an average-mediocre action game, but a piss poor (and easy) DMC game. [e]: And in Bayonetta news, someone has found an image which seems to show that one of her guns is called "Love is Sin". Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 12:01
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notZaar posted:For those of you having trouble with the controls, somebody posted earlier in this thread to bind the angel/demon triggers to the L/R1 buttons instead of L/R2, then use L2 for dodge and R2 for Devil Trigger. That helped me out a lot, it feels closer to the DMC game that my fingers keep trying to play. This, or be like me and put both weapons on one side, so one finger becomes the "weapon" finger. I went with L1 for Angel, L2 for Demon. Devil Trigger on R2. I find having both the weapons right next to each other had me switching much more quickly and fluidly in combat. Having a dedicated launcher button is stupid.
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Nov 27, 2012 12:43
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I've got a bit of a gimped right hand from breaking it a few years ago and having it heal wonky, and something about the way this game controls causes me pain after playing for a bit. No other game I've played using the 360 controller has bothered my hand in any way. gently caress you, Ninja Theory.
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Nov 27, 2012 13:08
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AccountingNightmare posted:Are there any directional input moves in the game? I kept trying to do Stingers and such and just kept screwing myself over. Yeah, Stinger is a double-tap and the triangle/regular attack button, but it seems a bit wonky to pull off consistently. Maybe it was just me getting used to it.
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Nov 27, 2012 13:21
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Is there a divinity statue in the demo? Or do I just keep missing it?
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Nov 27, 2012 18:32
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Pesky Splinter posted:Is there a divinity statue in the demo? Or do I just keep missing it? Pretty sure there isn't one. It's a shame, because it would've been neat to at least purchase some upgrades and see what some of Dante's unlockable moves are.
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Nov 27, 2012 18:34
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Pesky Splinter posted:Is there a divinity statue in the demo? Or do I just keep missing it? There isn't, you start with several upgrades already according to the demo's press release tho', and I believe achievements have confirmed you won't have Devil Trigger that early on a first runthrough.
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Nov 27, 2012 22:42
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Black Frost & ImpAtom posted:No divinity statue Ah, okay, thanks. And Imp Atom, your comment about the achievements made me have another look at the list, in particular this one: quote:Too easy!  Another quick question, that wall with the graffiti of the skull (just before the demonic shard cutscene), that presumably can only be opened with Eryx, right? Finally, Capcom are streaming DMD mode and the Aquila gameplay. Here is the link. http://www.twitch.tv/capcomunity With the stuff that's come out in the interm, I don't envy those guys. [e]: It's finished streaming, but the video can still be watched. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 23:29
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Dear god that chat. I keep forgetting how lovely people on the internet are outside SA.
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Nov 28, 2012 00:39
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The long and short of it: The dude asks "What are your thoughts on the demo?" Then he ignores a literal flood of negative reviews. "Are you looking at this as a game, or a successor?" "The best action game I've played in years" "[DmC] purify[s] [DMC] down to those most vital parts - so everything is done for a reason" "You gotta be switching the weapons up [to get that ranking]" -  M'lud, I present the thread, Exhibit SSS"[Itsuno] wanted this lock-on system in DMC3"  And then they flat-out ignore complaints. It becomes rather painfully clear that he wouldn't have died so much if this game had a decent lock-on. DMD Mode
Aquila
Rankings still broken as gently caress Authentic street artist to help with the graffiti Can parry ice back to frost demons New type of Knight enemy - a more powerful regular one.  Some actual enemies in the church stage. Tyrant is the "boss" of that level and it still goes down like a bitch Shotgun annihilates demon shards Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 00:54
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-Can parry grenades back at the Cherub guys that shoot grenades Combat looked interesting, but, yeah, I think I would still like a lock on. There were plenty of times during the stream where a devil/angel grab was going for something he didn't want. Aquila certainly looks cool. Still sitting on the fence on this game, though.
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Nov 28, 2012 00:57
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Divinity statue wasnt a lion lady. It wasnt a lion lady...  It is way, WAY too easy to stay in the air. Just pick a group and start spamming angel poo poo. DMD mode looks easier than the other game's hard modes. Aquila? Trivializes everything. Eryx is useless. Ugh. This stream. And that comment: "Capcom won't forget about the old DMCs since they TOTALLY didn't forget Megaman guys! Don't worry!" I raged a bit.
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Nov 28, 2012 01:01
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Pesky Splinter posted:Authentic street artist to help with the graffiti This kind of thing really bugs me with modern game development. This has absolutely no impact on gameplay, why do they bother wasting their time and money on it.
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Nov 28, 2012 01:03
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Rigged Death Trap posted:And that comment: "Capcom won't forget about the old DMCs since they TOTALLY didn't forget Megaman guys! Don't worry!" I felt bad for the guy as soon as he said that. He had to be kicking himself the second he realized what he said.
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Nov 28, 2012 01:04
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My favourite line from that stream was when one of the Capcom guys asked the chat "are you looking at this as a game, or a successor [to a series]", which is a cop out to avoid talking about the issues there are with the combat. And to answer the question, as a stand-alone product, detachted from DmC, it's a pretty mediocre hack and slash that looks pretty, but is rather shallow and unbalanced. To the rest of the series? Better than DMC2, worse than the rest by miles. My other favourite is the guy talking about how difficult it was, while getting S ranks and above at the same time. [e]: Yeah, cause it then opens up the  "This game has artistic integrity and that completely voids its flaws, you Philistines! It's expanding the medium as a whole!" flood gates.VVV Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 01:20
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weird bleep posted:This kind of thing really bugs me with modern game development. This has absolutely no impact on gameplay, why do they bother wasting their time and money on it. Would you really be surprised if I told you that sort of thing will make nerds gush over the game even more?
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Nov 28, 2012 01:21
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Wait was it the streamer asking the chat if they considered the game a successor or someone with the streamer? I cant watch it on my phone but could see the chat.
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Nov 28, 2012 01:30
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Uncle Wemus posted:Wait was it the streamer asking the chat if they considered the game a successor or someone with the streamer? I cant watch it on my phone but could see the chat. The streamer rhetorically asking the chat - I'll edit my post to make it clearer. The chat called him out on it. 
Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 01:32
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Just finished the demo and that certainly was a polarizing experience. I can safely put the game out of my mind. It was not any particular part but the entire experience was just off putting. The visuals were murky in that nothing really stood out, not Dante or most normal enemies. Weapon effects and those red and blue enemies stood out more but are not that cool to look at. The platforming is the most bare-bones platforming I have seen in a great while. In principle it feels like the platforming in Enslaved, which was more of a guided tour of the landscape. The default controls feel goofy. Most likely it has more to do with the fact that for me they are so different from the usual action games that they seem unintuitive to my brain (like having a separate button for launching attacks). The other thing that felt off about the controls was the angel/demon triggers felt slow. Attempting to grapple an enemy would result in pistol shots on the first press of the shoot button and the actual desired grapple on the second press. Same thing with trying to scoop enemies with the scythe only to do a helmbreaker with the sword. My final thought is: where did the emphasis on aerial combos come from?
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Nov 28, 2012 01:48
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To the other people who felt the game had input lag, especially with the weapon changes, were you playing the 360 version or the PS3 version? I was playing the PS3 version.
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Nov 28, 2012 03:08
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AccountingNightmare posted:To the other people who felt the game had input lag, especially with the weapon changes, were you playing the 360 version or the PS3 version? I was playing the PS3 version. Actually I had that problem too in the first stage of the demo. Playing PS3. PS your lps are cool.
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Nov 28, 2012 03:38
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AccountingNightmare posted:To the other people who felt the game had input lag, especially with the weapon changes, were you playing the 360 version or the PS3 version? I was playing the PS3 version. I've had some input lag during my time with the 360 version. It wasn't very often, but I'd have some times when I wouldn't be able to switch between the stances on the fly. I wonder if it just has to do with some weird glitch in the programming, since during those times I wouldn't be able to continue with a combo straight away either, even if I mashed the attack or ranged attack button. After spending some time with the demo, reading some of the reactions on here and watching that recent stream I'm back to considering giving this game a pass. It plays a lot like God of War with awkward button-holding controls, less interesting enemies and a tacked-on Style system but lacks the impressive environments and light puzzle-solving that help push you toward the next location. The effects are well done, but it does little to disguise the fact that you're simply running from one linear corridor to the next in search of the next lightweight action, platforming or race sequence. Not counting the odd divot that holds a key or door. That said, I still haven't completely written the game off just yet. I'm curious about how the story of Dante "The Demon Killer (you ugly sack of poo poo)" will end up considering what we've been given in the demo. If it ends up getting worse from there, I'd love to see it and share it.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:11
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AccountingNightmare posted:To the other people who felt the game had input lag, especially with the weapon changes, were you playing the 360 version or the PS3 version? I was playing the PS3 version. PS3 and 360 versions both seemed to have it a little.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:16
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AccountingNightmare posted:To the other people who felt the game had input lag, especially with the weapon changes, were you playing the 360 version or the PS3 version? I was playing the PS3 version. I've circumvented this little problem entirely by holding a trigger and mashing Triangle the best Devil May Cry battle system so far 
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Nov 28, 2012 09:57
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I was fairly impressed by the DMD stream, there are a lot of moves that look fun to play with. One big problem though, it appears that ground based enemies have absolutely zero anti-air capabilities. Considering how easy it is to stay in the air in this game, that really deflates a lof of the tension from fights.
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Nov 28, 2012 10:45
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notZaar posted:I was fairly impressed by the DMD stream, there are a lot of moves that look fun to play with. One big problem though, it appears that ground based enemies have absolutely zero anti-air capabilities. Considering how easy it is to stay in the air in this game, that really deflates a lof of the tension from fights. Some ground attacks have ridiculous vertical hitboxes, so unless you stay high in the air, you're still in danger.
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Nov 28, 2012 11:13
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AccountingNightmare posted:To the other people who felt the game had input lag, especially with the weapon changes, were you playing the 360 version or the PS3 version? I was playing the PS3 version. Very slight at times (xbox) with the weapon change or dodging. Though it didn't seem to happen very often. Spermando posted:Some ground attacks have ridiculous vertical hitboxes, so unless you stay high in the air, you're still in danger. But that can be avoided by punching the enemy higher, or negated by using the scythe's "scoop" attack. Or by doing this until it dies. The only real threat in the air comes from those annoying flying things, and that's only because it's hard to keep them targeted with the auto lock-on, and they have a tendancy to fly behind you, breaking them from the whip's targetting. [e]: By the by, anyone interested in the art behind the game should check out visual director, Alessandro Taini's website. No DmC stuff up there yet for obvious reasons. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 12:02
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Wasn't there an interview at one point where they said they had people in on the combat design that were participants in TrueStyle videos? Anyone remember that?
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Nov 29, 2012 00:30
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