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muike
Mar 16, 2011

ガチムチ セブン
They were extremely illegal documents.

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helno
Jun 19, 2003

hmm now were did I leave that plane
We had all of our controlled documents on microfiche until recently. Ironically the week after the cards were removed a power outage shutdown access to the servers that have the digital copy's.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Jibo posted:

Really, in the physical world passwords have been largely phased out by retina scanners, thumb scanners, and RFID fobs. 15 years ago you'd still punch in your password to get into your office or lab or whatever, these days you just wave your magic wand. I can't really think of much outside of computers and ATMs that you use passwords for these days. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like the Yubikey become standard. That being said, passwords are not currently obsolete in any way, shape, or form but that's just Wired's propensity towards overstatement and generally lovely articles.

I knew a guy who was doing his CS master's thesis on biometrics. He told me to never, ever trust biometrics, even the professional ones, because "all that stupid poo poo you see people do in movies to get past them actually works." Things like taking someone's fingerprint off a glass and making a crappy fake thumb out of it, using a picture taped to a mask to fool face recognition, etc.

This is a bit off-topic, but I always tell people who can't remember passwords to make up a password based on parts of something they can remember. For instance, take your favorite song (let's say it's Let It Be by The Beatles), and take the first letter of each word of the first (or your favorite) line:

"When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me" -> WIfmitotMMctm

Then remembering your password is as easy as reciting your favorite song (that you of course know all the words to by heart). Plus, it makes pretty good "random" passwords and can be extended to arbitrary lengths. For added security, you can put in line numbers, what the song is, punctuation, etc:

TB-LiB1WIfmitot,MMctm

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Back at school, we defeated the (admittedly) simple face recognition lock on a buddy's Asus laptop by holding a picture of him up to the camera :haw:

Retinal scans are cool though.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

movax posted:

Retinal scans are cool though.

Those can be thwarted, too.

Ever see Demolition Man?

Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

There he go

DrBouvenstein posted:

Those can be thwarted, too.

"Dammit, locked out again! Oh, hey, Bob, can I borrow your eyes for s second?"

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️

DrBouvenstein posted:

Those can be thwarted, too.

Ever see Demolition Man?

Of course. It has educated me on how to obtain toilet paper in the seashell future.

madlilnerd
Jan 4, 2009

a bush with baggage
I don't like fingerprint recognition- what if someone hacked the fingerprint database and stole your fingerprint and 3D printed it onto a glove and went around committing crimes with your fingerprint left at the scene? :tinfoil:

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

madlilnerd posted:

I don't like fingerprint recognition- what if someone hacked the fingerprint database and stole your fingerprint and 3D printed it onto a glove and went around committing crimes with your fingerprint left at the scene? :tinfoil:

That's the big problem with biometrics. If your password is compromised, change your password. If your thumbprint is lifted, you can't exactly change that.

_Sneakers_ illustrates a great way to circumvent those electronic keypad locks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp4LFuFCon0

TShields
Mar 30, 2007

We can rule them like gods! ...Angry gods.

madlilnerd posted:

I don't like fingerprint recognition- what if someone hacked the fingerprint database and stole your fingerprint and 3D printed it onto a glove and went around committing crimes with your fingerprint left at the scene? :tinfoil:

I've always wondered what would happen if you had a fingerprint scanner on your computer and you injured that finger to the point of it being unrecognizable- even if just for a short time. I sliced my left index finger open with a paring knife while cutting cheese a few weeks ago, there's no way I would have been able to scan it.

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

That's when you enter your password. I use the fingerprint scanner on my phone to unlock it but I can also enter a PIN.

Qotile Swirl
Aug 15, 2011

Alone In the Dark, A ground breaking horror game.

NadaTooma posted:

Yes, thank you Qotile Swirl! That was fascinating. I'd love to read a whole book about the history of film, similar to your post. Specifically the engineering and mechanics of film itself, that is. Are there any books you'd recommend? It's one of those questions that difficult to phrase in an Amazon search.
I honestly don't know of any general silent film history books that focus on the technical side of things rather than on the filmmakers or the films themselves. Tech stuff usually just gets discussed as a side topic in (auto-)biographies of specific cinema pioneers.

9.5mm and other home movie formats are covered in The Home Cinema: Classic Home Movie Projectors 1922-1940, by Gerald McKee, but it's long out of print and rarely turns up used. I think only 350 copies were ever printed -- it's a very niche topic. If you speak French, there's Path: Premier Empire du Cinema. It's also long out of print, but copies can be had if you're willing to pay for them.

There are some decent websites online about the technical development of film. Cinematographica is a good one. The site was designed in 1996 and it really, really shows, but it's still a wealth of interesting information. The "100 years of film sizes" page is a great starting point.

You can also turn to contemporary literature about the subject, like the 1912 book Moving Pictures: How They are Made and Worked, by Frederick Talbot, or the 1921 book The Film Insutry, by Davidson Boughey. Many can be found on archive.org.

RC and Moon Pie
May 5, 2011

When I was in elementary school, a few classrooms had a machine called a System 80.



They were outdated even then, as the school had purchased Commodore 64s a couple of years earlier.

The programs were on plastic punch cards that you you slid into the slot. From what I remember, the machine was insanely loud and because it was relying on young kids to slide a plastic punch card into a hole, it barely worked.

This 1971 article is one of the few I can find about them.

Code Jockey
Jan 24, 2006

69420 basic bytes free

BattleMaster posted:

That's when you enter your password. I use the fingerprint scanner on my phone to unlock it but I can also enter a PIN.

Yeah, I have one of those USB fingerprint scanners that works with XP [doesn't work for anything past XP, it seems] and you either use your fingerprint or ctrl-alt-del and enter a password as usual.

cyberbug
Sep 30, 2004

The name is Carl Seltz...
insurance inspector.

Phanatic posted:

That's the big problem with biometrics. If your password is compromised, change your password. If your thumbprint is lifted, you can't exactly change that.
Yeah. And if you make the comparison stricter, the system will just start producing too many false negatives to be useful. Having it as an alternative to a password/PIN just makes the system less secure, since it allows the intruder to choose the least secure method to crack. Secure systems usually require at least two or all three of the different authentication types: what you know (passwords), what you have (physical tokens) and what you are (biometrics).

Phanatic posted:

_Sneakers_ illustrates a great way to circumvent those electronic keypad locks:
Years ago I saw an awesome keypad lock, in a university's computer lab door. Every button had a tiny display inside it, recessed so that you couldn't see it except from directly in front of it. When you wanted to enter a code, the keypad would first randomize the order of the numbers. No way you could have shoulder-surfed that code. (And around here doors almost invariably open outwards)

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.

cyberbug posted:

Years ago I saw an awesome keypad lock, in a university's computer lab door. Every button had a tiny display inside it, recessed so that you couldn't see it except from directly in front of it. When you wanted to enter a code, the keypad would first randomize the order of the numbers. No way you could have shoulder-surfed that code. (And around here doors almost invariably open outwards)

And I guarantee that you can get through it by walking up to it with a handfull of papers just after someone opened it and smiling helplessly.

Code Jockey
Jan 24, 2006

69420 basic bytes free

spog posted:

And I guarantee that you can get through it by walking up to it with a handfull of papers just after someone opened it and smiling helplessly.

Yeah, this works a lot. I don't work in an especially high security job, but the upper floor of my building, where most of the corporate offices are - and where I work - is secured by swipe card. I've seen so many people let total strangers in, who I've never seen before, because they simply wait by the door and give a v:shobon:v kind of look. I don't do it anymore but did a few times. I imagine it's mostly vendors taking tours or maintenance people for our lousy HVAC system, but they need to go through the front desk, drat it!

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


TShields posted:

I've always wondered what would happen if you had a fingerprint scanner on your computer and you injured that finger to the point of it being unrecognizable- even if just for a short time. I sliced my left index finger open with a paring knife while cutting cheese a few weeks ago, there's no way I would have been able to scan it.
My department at work had a Dell laptop with a fingerprint scanner. Cuts on my fingers didn't seem to affect it, but every month or two I would have to reregister my prints because it would stop recognizing them. I doubt my fingerprints are changing that rapidly, so at least at the consumer level I wouldn't trust it at all. Even with "better" (more expensive) stuff, I would have to see a lot of convincing evidence before I would trust it.

spog posted:

And I guarantee that you can get through it by walking up to it with a handfull of papers just after someone opened it and smiling helplessly.
Funny you should mention this, we just had a laptop disappear at work less than an hour ago because someone was waiting for someone to come check a problem with it and left the door to the lab propped open when he went to the bathroom. It's a secure area or something.

Shugojin
Sep 6, 2007

THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...


TShields posted:

I've always wondered what would happen if you had a fingerprint scanner on your computer and you injured that finger to the point of it being unrecognizable- even if just for a short time. I sliced my left index finger open with a paring knife while cutting cheese a few weeks ago, there's no way I would have been able to scan it.

Most things have you register more than one finger for this exact reason.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.

Shugojin posted:

Most things have you register more than one finger for this exact reason.

The really clever ones have you register a 'normal' finger and a 'panic' finger.

The idea is that if you are being coerced to open a security door, you use your middle finger instead of your index and the door opens, whilst sounding a silent alarm.

MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."

Parallel Paraplegic posted:

I knew a guy who was doing his CS master's thesis on biometrics. He told me to never, ever trust biometrics, even the professional ones, because "all that stupid poo poo you see people do in movies to get past them actually works." Things like taking someone's fingerprint off a glass and making a crappy fake thumb out of it, using a picture taped to a mask to fool face recognition, etc.
Actually, depending on the security device all you need is a photocopied picture of your thumbprint.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

GWBBQ posted:

My department at work had a Dell laptop with a fingerprint scanner. Cuts on my fingers didn't seem to affect it, but every month or two I would have to reregister my prints because it would stop recognizing them. I doubt my fingerprints are changing that rapidly, so at least at the consumer level I wouldn't trust it at all. Even with "better" (more expensive) stuff, I would have to see a lot of convincing evidence before I would trust it.

The lingering issue is that fingerprints are by no means as constant, unalterable, unique, or easy to read as a century of mystery fiction would have you believe. Which doesn't mean they're useless, so much as that "Fingerprints are ironclad proof of identity!" is just so rooted in popular wisdom. And that's before how easy it is to bypass it.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

spog posted:

The really clever ones have you register a 'normal' finger and a 'panic' finger.

The idea is that if you are being coerced to open a security door, you use your middle finger instead of your index and the door opens, whilst sounding a silent alarm.

Or, if you're really clever, use your middle finger normally and your index finger for the panic alarm. Then the person coercing you is less likely to think you're using a finger you wouldn't normally use.

nigga crab pollock
Mar 26, 2010

by Lowtax

RC and Moon Pie posted:

When I was in elementary school, a few classrooms had a machine called a System 80.



They were outdated even then, as the school had purchased Commodore 64s a couple of years earlier.

The programs were on plastic punch cards that you you slid into the slot. From what I remember, the machine was insanely loud and because it was relying on young kids to slide a plastic punch card into a hole, it barely worked.

This 1971 article is one of the few I can find about them.

We had one of those things at a rural elementary school i went to for about 3 weeks. In 2001 or so :stare:

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.

Jedit posted:

Or, if you're really clever, use your middle finger normally and your index finger for the panic alarm. Then the person coercing you is less likely to think you're using a finger you wouldn't normally use.

You're too limited in your thinking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGnnNj8l7pI

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

spog posted:

You're too limited in your thinking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGnnNj8l7pI

There are two things I will not do. One is follow that link. The other is install a biometric penis scanner.

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007

I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Code Jockey posted:

Is this the first ever video compression technology? :v:

That's genius.

Yes! It's a primitive form of RLE

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON
I'm a bit late to the party on the microfilm discussion, but the technology is still alive and kicking. I used to work for a third party service contractor to FujiFilm and they launched a microfilm machine (it basically just exposed the film from digital sources) in the late 2000s.

It's definitely a niche market item, primarily used by government agencies and companies that have to adhere to government record keeping standards. The logic behind it is once the film is exposed and developed it is extremely difficult to modify (unlike the digital medium its created from) so it's used as more of a redundant/secure second copy should questions arise regarding the authenticity of the digital originals.

SC Bracer
Aug 7, 2012

DEMAGLIO!

Code Jockey posted:

Yeah, this works a lot. I don't work in an especially high security job, but the upper floor of my building, where most of the corporate offices are - and where I work - is secured by swipe card. I've seen so many people let total strangers in, who I've never seen before, because they simply wait by the door and give a v:shobon:v kind of look. I don't do it anymore but did a few times. I imagine it's mostly vendors taking tours or maintenance people for our lousy HVAC system, but they need to go through the front desk, drat it!

True. In my dorm, tons of random people get let in all the time, since it's normal to just sort of stand outside, looking helpless if you want to get into a dorm that your keycard (or lack thereof) can't access. It's come to the point that there are are posters everywhere telling you not to let people you don't know in, but it's polite to hold doors open and I don't know.

I do it too, I must admit.

SniperWoreConverse
Mar 20, 2010



Gun Saliva
Not "obsolete" tech, but at my last job we got a prototype biometric face scanner and we were loving around with it. It worked by comparing the distance between your eyes and mouth or something, but when we entered one guy into the system it assumed his nostrils were his eyes. We laughed about it and never told him -- he had to tilt his head in a wacky-rear end direction to get in the door. As far as I know it's entering production.

The Sausages
Sep 30, 2012

What do you want to do? Who do you want to be?

spog posted:

And I guarantee that you can get through it by walking up to it with a handfull of papers just after someone opened it and smiling helplessly.

I pretty much rely on this whenever I go to the head office; At worst I've been asked who I'm there to see. There's a list of names by the door so that's a pretty non-secure question.

Coffee And Pie
Nov 4, 2010

"Blah-sum"?
More like "Blawesome"

SniperWoreConverse posted:

Not "obsolete" tech, but at my last job we got a prototype biometric face scanner and we were loving around with it. It worked by comparing the distance between your eyes and mouth or something, but when we entered one guy into the system it assumed his nostrils were his eyes. We laughed about it and never told him -- he had to tilt his head in a wacky-rear end direction to get in the door. As far as I know it's entering production.

I must have problems, because my first thought was "What is someone has an evil twin??"

Bobby Digital
Sep 4, 2009

Coffee And Pie posted:

I must have problems, because my first thought was "What is someone has an evil twin??"

We must get our top scientists on goatee recognition STAT.

Goober Peas
Jun 30, 2007

Check out my 'Vette, bro


Bobby Digital posted:

We must get our top scientists on goatse recognition STAT.

Fixed for you :colbert:

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time
You need to scan the inside of my what?

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004

Just like Mama used to make it!
Nah...the scanner will just measure how far away the ring on your finger is from your rear end in a top hat.

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑


I used to work in a casino where the process to get in the vault was pretty impressive. PIN on the first door, swipe card on second door, hand print reader to access a key, radio surveillance to open third door remotely, radio another person inside the vault to open from the inside, then you and the vault person use two keys and another PIN to access the vault within the vault where the money is kept.

Despite all our fancy technology, the most effective measure was to involve several separated groups of people to avoid any potential conspiracy. Surveillance wasn't even in the same building.

UnfortunateSexFart has a new favorite as of 11:10 on Dec 3, 2012

Space Kablooey
May 6, 2009


How do you get the first person inside the vault?

Serious question.

Sham bam bamina!
Nov 6, 2012

ƨtupid cat

HardDisk posted:

How do you get the first person inside the vault?

Serious question.
I'd imagine that the person on the previous shift opens the door for them.

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Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

HardDisk posted:

How do you get the first person inside the vault?

Serious question.

There would probably be someone in there 24/7 from the sealing of the vault. The guy inside comes out when his shift ends and the next guy on shift goes in.

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