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Maker Of Shoes
Sep 4, 2006

AWWWW YISSSSSSSSSS
DIS IS MAH JAM!!!!!!
All of that sorcery went over my head. :stare:

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jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

EightBit posted:

I missed the shackle at the frame (it's just barely visible in the photo), but that is a bit overbuilt and looks like it might limit uptravel severely.

As to doing a triangulated 3 or 4 link setup: when you already have coil springs it's easy to triangulate, taking off leaf springs and putting on coils is much more work than just putting on a single piece to limit axle wrap.

With solid axles and an actual frame, it's not too bad, especially with all the pre fabbed spring perch kits out there. My 5-ton 6x6 I was going to convert from leafs to double triangulated with air bags. I had it mocked up and ready to go, but the price for heim joints and everything else required for it to be strong enough outweighed the benefits. Plus you don't really need ultimate flex when you have 47" tires, 6 of them.

DixielandDelight
Jul 23, 2012

jonathan posted:

Any of the more complete lift kits come with a sway bar disconnect which is pins basically that allow you to get more flex.

The TJ Rubicon which was up until 2006 had the 4:1 transfer case, the locking diffs and the Dana 44 axles.

The JK which is 2007 has a longer and wider wheelbase, longer axle control arms (huge benefits), Gen II Dana 44 axles, and the sway bar disconnect.

I have the unlimited which is nice because I can sleep in the back with the old lady, but the wheelbase is just a little long for some situations. The XJ is the perfect wheeling length.

Now I know this ain't the Jeep thread but don't you dare tell me a JK is better than a TJ.

MiniFoo
Dec 25, 2006

METHAMPHETAMINE

NitroSpazzz posted:

Here have a F1 car cross section


I always knew that F1 drivers were seated in a very reclined position, but I never realized it was that ridiculous. Now I understand another reason why they have to be so physically fit (aside from the G-forces): cardiovascular training probably helps keep the blood circulating to their feet and not pooled up in their rear end.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

DixielandDelight posted:

Now I know this ain't the Jeep thread but don't you dare tell me a JK is better than a TJ.

In my experience, a JK is night and day better than a TJ, and is much more modifiable as well.

The JK has all the stuff stock that the TJ needs to be upgraded to before doing larger modifications. The JK isn't perfect, but once you learn to drive them and their limitations, they can make tough obstacles for a TJ, or XJ look easy.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

MiniFoo posted:

I always knew that F1 drivers were seated in a very reclined position, but I never realized it was that ridiculous. Now I understand another reason why they have to be so physically fit (aside from the G-forces): cardiovascular training probably helps keep the blood circulating to their feet and not pooled up in their rear end.

I watched a documentary about the comparisons between a F1 driver and a top tier fighter pilot. Basically, if you're an average F1 driver, you have every skill needed to be a Top Gun graduate save for actually knowing how to fly. Size, fitness level, concentration, reaction time, ability to multitask puzzles and logic while have your attention elsewhere.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
A few things -
- the 2 door JK is indeed better than a TJ IMO. The 4 door is ridiculously long and low unless lifted and/or significantly larger tires installed.
- The picture jonathan posted of the traction bar doesn't seem badly done, except that the angles make it look like it's triangulated below the axle housing instead of above. That's a huge waste of ground clearance. If I'm wrong and it's triangulated above the axle tube, it looks well done to me.
- the traction bar murphle posted looks kinda hack. It'll probably work for a long time, but none of it is designed very well. That style truss does almost nothing to strengthen an axle housing (since it's only attached at one point on each side of the diff and is fairly delicate), they're more intended for 3/4 link builds to give the builder a convenient spot to mount the upper link tabs. The welding looks about like mine and it appears the shackle at the frame end is mounted in single shear. None of this is going to result in anything bad unless it's pushed hard but it all could have been avoided with only slight changes to the design.

A well executed traction bar is a significant upgrade to a leaf spring suspension - they're commonly used on offroad vehicles, mud boggers (a lot of those are extremely badly put together by people from the shallow end of the gene pool...) and track/drag strip applications. They're generally known as "ladder bars" in the pavement world while offroad types call them traction bars.

DixielandDelight
Jul 23, 2012
I suppose it depends on what kind of wheeling one is doing as well. For me, in east Texas, it's all about mud - no rock crawling whatsoever. Maybe a log or two but that's it. It's also a matter of principles for me. The great majority of the JKs I see look like they have never hit even the lightest trail and their owners modify them to look more like H3s - luxury and appearance over utility. Especially the new ones coming out of the factory dripping with chrome. The I6 found in TJs can also be found in the jeeps that won WWII, Korea and Vietnam. The motor in JKs literally came out of a Chrysler minivan.

Edit: we'll I don't know what I'm talking about anymore. Let me just say this: you can put your boots in the oven and call them biscuits but that doesn't make it so.

DixielandDelight fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Dec 2, 2012

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
It's descended from the inline 4s that were in those wars, I guess, sorta, but it's a 100% civilian motor. I don't believe the 258 or 242/4.0 ever saw combat.

IMO they should have gone with the 3.9L V6 (though they stopped producing that at the end of 03.) It's a good strong reliable motor and puts out about the same power/torque as a 4.0 in a shorter, slightly wider package.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

DixielandDelight posted:

I suppose it depends on what kind of wheeling one is doing as well. For me, in east Texas, it's all about mud - no rock crawling whatsoever. Maybe a log or two but that's it. It's also a matter of principles for me. The great majority of the JKs I see look like they have never hit even the lightest trail and their owners modify them to look more like H3s - luxury and appearance over utility. Especially the new ones coming out of the factory dripping with chrome. The I6 found in TJs can also be found in the jeeps that won WWII, Korea and Vietnam. The motor in JKs literally came out of a Chrysler minivan.

The thing with the unlimited JK is, it's also a very very practical vehicle for day to day stuff. It's not very expensive in the lower trim levels, has lots of room inside with very very good leg room, lots of storage space, looks cool, itsc. the only 4 door SUV convertible available etc.

So while it's very capable as an off roader, it's also very attractive to the non offroad crowd as a practicle vehicle.

This is the reason Chrysler is selling so drat many of them and you see them all over mall parking lots.

In stock form, the unlimited is too long for cross ditches, but altering your driving style and making use of the very very large amount of articulation will overcome most of those issues.

Mine is lifted a 3.5" and when it's sitting on a 35" tire I have never had an issue with ground clearance. I think the steep uphill and downhill stability added by the longer wheelbase outweigh the breakover advantage of the shorter TJ.

Basically the JK is like a shorter cab Toyota for wheelbase, but with better departure and approach angles.

Nuevo
May 23, 2006

:eyepop::shittypop::eyepop::shittypop::eyepop::shittypop::eyepop::shittypop::eyepop::shittypop::eyepop::shittypop::eyepop::shittypop::eyepop::shittypop:
Fun Shoe

MiniFoo posted:

I always knew that F1 drivers were seated in a very reclined position, but I never realized it was that ridiculous. Now I understand another reason why they have to be so physically fit (aside from the G-forces): cardiovascular training probably helps keep the blood circulating to their feet and not pooled up in their rear end.

This video of an actual cutaway F1 + driver illustrates it pretty drat well. That looks uncomfortable as gently caress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wn1EFLa2C8

Aurune
Jun 17, 2006

Boat posted:

This video of an actual cutaway F1 + driver illustrates it pretty drat well. That looks uncomfortable as gently caress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wn1EFLa2C8

It certainly seems like it.

"Because foam is very heavy..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpk0d9qrJYw

Lucas di Grassi had a camera mounted over one of his eyes, the position is really low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97rrME9eQHA

Also, watching them actually sink into the seat under braking doesn't make it seem any better.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

DixielandDelight posted:

The I6 found in TJs can also be found in the jeeps that won WWII, Korea and Vietnam.
Ok, this should be good.

Previa_fun
Nov 10, 2004

Aurune posted:

Lucas di Grassi had a camera mounted over one of his eyes, the position is really low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97rrME9eQHA

No matter how much I tell myself it's a real engine, F1 cars always sound so unreal to me, almost like video game sound effects.

kill me now
Sep 14, 2003

Why's Hank crying?

'CUZ HE JUST GOT DUNKED ON!

MiniFoo posted:

I always knew that F1 drivers were seated in a very reclined position, but I never realized it was that ridiculous. Now I understand another reason why they have to be so physically fit (aside from the G-forces): cardiovascular training probably helps keep the blood circulating to their feet and not pooled up in their rear end.

I'm sure plenty of blood pools in their feet as they brake going into the corners.

shut up blegum
Dec 17, 2008


--->Plastic Lawn<---
I just got back from Paris and saw some pretty exotic cars, sadly I got no pictures.
But anyway, I saw one car driving away and I can't figure out what it was. It's been bugging me the last couple of hours, and I just can't remember what it's called.
So anyway, the backside looked like this:
code:
       _____                 ______
       xxxxx \______________/xxxxxx  
   
X's being the taillights. I know it isn't much, but I'm sure someone around here can tell me what I saw.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
Any more details? Did it look like a supercar, any ideas if it was a recent design or something older, what?

shut up blegum
Dec 17, 2008


--->Plastic Lawn<---
It was a recent car. It was low, like a supercar. And that shape I posted is how the backside was shaped. It's not a led trim or whatever, it was actually shaped like that.
I'm 100% positive I know what car it is, I just can't remember the name right now.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Lamborghini Aventador?
http://www.rapidcars.com/wp-content/gallery/2012-lamborghini-aventador-lp700/2012-lamborghini-aventador-lp700-rear-orange-3.jpg

shut up blegum
Dec 17, 2008


--->Plastic Lawn<---
Nope, that has a pretty square backside.
The backside of the car I saw actually dropped down in the middle, like the lovely diagram I posted earlier.
So 'high' side, then it drops down, then up again on the other side. This will probably make more sense when somebody (or I) find out what car I'm talking about.

Giblet Plus!
Sep 14, 2004

Sockington posted:

A friend of mine uploaded this pic of his Jeep to FB:


Budget Monty posted:

That sucks about the poor engineering. Why do people try to solve axle wrap with this abortion of a solution?

NitroSpazzz posted:

Saw the axle and was trying to figure out what the big deal was, then I saw the box steel sections :stare:

Here have a F1 car cross section


It's really a good solution and good engineering. You're just freaking out because you don't like square section tube and don't understand the mechanics of the motion.

The axle wrap itself isn't the problem. The problem is that the axle wrap messes up the pinion angle of the axle, and therefore, the driveline angles.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Apparently I just couldn't see the far right side of that pic last time I spewed about it.

Looks fine to me, in fact I'm fairly certain those axle side brackets are from RuffStuff Specialties: http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/AWKIT.html

Though it looks like he used a johnny joint instead of a heim joint at the body end.

The other benefit of having a traction bar is that you don't get rearend hop while trying to accelerate. Without it, the springs wrap till your tires break traction, then they spring back and wrap in the other direction slightly while the tires are sliding, then regain traction and wrap back up again. It's not good for any of the parts involved, doesn't really function well and gets very sketchy to drive.

razorscooter
Nov 5, 2008


beedeebee posted:

Nope, that has a pretty square backside.
The backside of the car I saw actually dropped down in the middle, like the lovely diagram I posted earlier.
So 'high' side, then it drops down, then up again on the other side. This will probably make more sense when somebody (or I) find out what car I'm talking about.

A Koenigsegg maybe?

shut up blegum
Dec 17, 2008


--->Plastic Lawn<---
^^ no, it had sharper edges. Less curves, more straight lines.

beedeebee posted:

I just got back from Paris and saw some pretty exotic cars, sadly I got no pictures.
But anyway, I saw one car driving away and I can't figure out what it was. It's been bugging me the last couple of hours, and I just can't remember what it's called.
So anyway, the backside looked like this:
code:
       _____                 ______
       xxxxx \______________/xxxxxx  
   
X's being the taillights. I know it isn't much, but I'm sure someone around here can tell me what I saw.

beedeebee posted:

It was a recent car. It was low, like a supercar. And that shape I posted is how the backside was shaped. It's not a led trim or whatever, it was actually shaped like that.
I'm 100% positive I know what car it is, I just can't remember the name right now.

It actually looked like the backside of a Reventon. But no way I saw a Reventon in person right?


It also was grey, and I think they only did the Reventons in black. So it's something that looks similar. Or else I'm an idiot who'd rather look at a 300 year old building that isn't going anywhere instead of a super exlusive supercar passing by.

einTier
Sep 25, 2003

Charming, friendly, and possessed by demons.
Approach with caution.

beedeebee posted:

^^ no, it had sharper edges. Less curves, more straight lines.



It actually looked like the backside of a Reventon. But no way I saw a Reventon in person right?


It also was grey, and I think they only did the Reventons in black. So it's something that looks similar. Or else I'm an idiot who'd rather look at a 300 year old building that isn't going anywhere instead of a super exlusive supercar passing by.
It's not impossible, especially considering you're in Paris. Seven of them went to Europe. From the wikipedia article, the paint isn't black: "All Reventóns have the same exterior color, described as "mid opaque grey without the usual shine."

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

beedeebee posted:

^^ no, it had sharper edges. Less curves, more straight lines.


It actually looked like the backside of a Reventon. But no way I saw a Reventon in person right?


The more straight lines, the more that biases it to Lambos. Here's a Gallardo:

The main problem is that it doesn't have that dip in the middle.

About the Xs for taillights -- what were the taillights like? I interpreted them as LED arrangements, but maybe not.

Pretty sure it was midengined?

11BulletCatcher
Feb 27, 2010

This Cold Ass Honkey Ain't No Jive Turkey, Ya Dig?
Sorry to go off topic, but... in honor of the deceased Panther platform.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFwPXEeJ3aI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHvXi_HejnI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYIJpzo2RVY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEgpg7Za7IQ (skip to : 2:10)


Rest in peace

Kill-9
Aug 2, 2004

You've got the cutest little baby face...
Found this at Cars and Coffee in Austin. I'd never seen one in person. It had a for sale sticker on it: $73K and it was yours.



I didn't realize it when I took the pic but just in the upper right of the pic is Holley from Barrett Auto here in Austin, starring on Texas Car Wars. You might know her as the lady that recently had cancer and shaved her head on the show. She was mostly bald under the cap. The show is kind of stupid but I can't stop watching it because it shows places in town I know.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/texas-car-wars/videos/head-shaving.htm

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

beedeebee posted:

^^ no, it had sharper edges. Less curves, more straight lines.
Diablo, maybe? You probably would have recognized it immediately if it was, though.

grover fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Dec 2, 2012

ultimateforce
Apr 25, 2008

SKINNY JEANS CANT HOLD BACK THIS ARC

Kill-9 posted:

Found this at Cars and Coffee in Austin. I'd never seen one in person. It had a for sale sticker on it: $73K and it was yours.



I could build that if only I had the tools. :(

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

beedeebee posted:

It actually looked like the backside of a Reventon. But no way I saw a Reventon in person right?

Could it be an Aventador?

Kill-9
Aug 2, 2004

You've got the cutest little baby face...

ultimateforce posted:

I could build that if only I had the tools. :(

Same here. Oh yeah, and if I had the skills. Or the money. Or the time. But other than that, sure, I could totally build one too. :)

EightBit
Jan 7, 2006
I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.

Kill-9 posted:

Found this at Cars and Coffee in Austin. I'd never seen one in person. It had a for sale sticker on it: $73K and it was yours.



I didn't realize it when I took the pic but just in the upper right of the pic is Holley from Barrett Auto here in Austin, starring on Texas Car Wars. You might know her as the lady that recently had cancer and shaved her head on the show. She was mostly bald under the cap. The show is kind of stupid but I can't stop watching it because it shows places in town I know.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/texas-car-wars/videos/head-shaving.htm

Isn't this just an Ariel Atom?

Kill-9
Aug 2, 2004

You've got the cutest little baby face...

EightBit posted:

Isn't this just an Ariel Atom?

It is. I've never seen one in Austin. The driving season for such a car is short here. November-March is about it. and then only if it isn't raining. Other than that it's too drat hot without A/C.

EightBit
Jan 7, 2006
I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.

Kill-9 posted:

It is. I've never seen one in Austin. The driving season for such a car is short here. November-March is about it. and then only if it isn't raining. Other than that it's too drat hot without A/C.

Lol what? I drive all summer with the doors off of my TJ, and it has working A/C, in San Antonio. I would love to own an Atom, I'd be able to drive it nearly all year.

Kill-9
Aug 2, 2004

You've got the cutest little baby face...

EightBit posted:

Lol what? I drive all summer with the doors off of my TJ, and it has working A/C, in San Antonio. I would love to own an Atom, I'd be able to drive it nearly all year.

I did the same in a D-90. Do you have a roof/bikini top to at least keep sun off you? That's the only thing that made it bearable.

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!

Kill-9 posted:

It is. I've never seen one in Austin. The driving season for such a car is short here. November-March is about it. and then only if it isn't raining. Other than that it's too drat hot without A/C.

You native Texans are such sissies about the heat. :v:

ultimateforce
Apr 25, 2008

SKINNY JEANS CANT HOLD BACK THIS ARC

Kill-9 posted:

Same here. Oh yeah, and if I had the skills. Or the money. Or the time. But other than that, sure, I could totally build one too. :)

There's maybe $10,000 worth of parts there but around $30,000 in tools.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Kill-9 posted:

Same here. Oh yeah, and if I had the skills. Or the money. Or the time. But other than that, sure, I could totally build one too. :)

YOU SHUT UP. If UF wants to build an Atom then by God we will encourage him.

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Kill-9
Aug 2, 2004

You've got the cutest little baby face...

Detroit Q. Spider posted:

You native Texans are such sissies about the heat. :v:

Not all of us. I've gone the last 3 summers in a car with no A/C. I also just bought another classic car with no A/C. It's a convertible so it'll not see a lot of time on the road in summer. It's fine if you're moving but sitting in traffic in the sun in 105degrees sucks balls.

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