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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

escape artist posted:

I don't find it anachronistic. They deliberately juxtapose it with the high-tech poo poo in the FBI field office. Later in the season, Jimmy asks the FBI for just a couple of light-weight recording mics and Fitzhugh says "that's it?", to which Jimmy replies "we're just happy to be in the 20th century."

And the beepers thing are so they can't be tapped. Later in the season: Poot's cell phone is destroyed; Avon orders to have landlines in his girl's house deactivated; Lester remarks about the beepers being a "discipline".

Also, think about Season 4, when Prez finds all the computers and new textbooks in storage, while they use outdated stuff. I think it's actually intentional.

We're definitely in the 21st century during the entirety of the show. The Sept. 11th attacks are mentioned in the first episode.

If I remember right, in a scene nicely paralleled in season 4 as you mention in the bolded above, it turns out that the stuff that McNulty asks for from Fitzhugh is actually already in the department's inventory. They received it months (if not years) earlier and just stuck it in a room somewhere and forgot all about it.

Edit: Oh man the "McNugget" scene in episode 2.

"He still had the idea though!" - poor, sweet, innocent (drug-dealing) Wallace :cry:

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escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming

Jerusalem posted:

If I remember right, in a scene nicely paralleled in season 4 as you mention in the bolded above, it turns out that the stuff that McNulty asks for from Fitzhugh is actually already in the department's inventory. They received it months (if not years) earlier and just stuck it in a room somewhere and forgot all about it.

Edit: Oh man the "McNugget" scene in episode 2.

"He still had the idea though!" - poor, sweet, innocent (drug-dealing) Wallace :cry:
Wallace was born into it. Remember when we meet his mother? An alcoholic who viciously declares "I'll slap the bright out [of] his eyes."

Also, good call about McNulty. He finds the triggerfish machine in Season 3, all tucked away, unused, in an equipment room. The guard of that room has no idea what he is talking about-- implying that the average cop doesn't know poo poo about these things.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Finished up episode 2 - I forgot all about the scene of a drunken McNulty shouting impotently at the would-be car thieves down the hill and across the road to stop before tumbling down the hill and his badge ending up in the mud. He laughs at the absurdity of it all, and I like that the thieves are scared away not by a member of the police force (whom they seem completely unaware of) but an automated, unaware, unthinking piece of machinery.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming

Jerusalem posted:

Finished up episode 2 - I forgot all about the scene of a drunken McNulty shouting impotently at the would-be car thieves down the hill and across the road to stop before tumbling down the hill and his badge ending up in the mud. He laughs at the absurdity of it all. . .

I love that scene.

Kill Dozed
Feb 13, 2008
Great time for a new thread on The Wire. I am actually taking a class right now all about season four. We've actually read a lot of academic articles specifically about The Wire. I was surprised how much attention it got. If people want, I can post some links to these articles. Some of them are available for free online, but others are only available through JSTOR or Academic Search Complete. But if you have access to university databases, you can get them there.

chesh
Apr 19, 2004

That was terrible.

Kill Dozed posted:

Great time for a new thread on The Wire. I am actually taking a class right now all about season four. We've actually read a lot of academic articles specifically about The Wire. I was surprised how much attention it got. If people want, I can post some links to these articles. Some of them are available for free online, but others are only available through JSTOR or Academic Search Complete. But if you have access to university databases, you can get them there.

I would love for you to post them.

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx

Jerusalem posted:

If I remember right, in a scene nicely paralleled in season 4 as you mention in the bolded above, it turns out that the stuff that McNulty asks for from Fitzhugh is actually already in the department's inventory. They received it months (if not years) earlier and just stuck it in a room somewhere and forgot all about it.

I worked in university tech support in undergrad back in the 90s and one day I was clearing out inventory for surplus and there were 10 new in box laptops maybe two years old collecting dust that had never been cataloged and tagged. And that was one department, and think how much laptops cost back then. poo poo happens in organizations more often than anyone would care to admit, especially back when record keeping was done on paper.


The Rooster posted:

I like that, while McNulty and D are both skilled at what they do, D's problem is that he isn't "built for the game" and isn't personally invested enough, whereas McNulty's problem is that he's TO invested, and they're both punished for it.

They really hammer the parallel between Stringer and McNulty later on as two guys dying (figuratively in McNulty's case) for loving with the system too much.

Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Dec 13, 2012

geeves
Sep 16, 2004

Jerusalem posted:

And considering that I normally find Idris Elba's American accent a little forced, I still can't get over how flawless it seems (to me at least) in The Wire. First time I saw the series I didn't realize he was British, but even after everything else I've seen him in I still think his accent in The Wire is excellent.

I never really notice when accents go bad or are forced. Maybe it's because I've lived all over the US from the south, to San Francisco, Boston and Pittsburgh and have become used to all sorts of weird and natural accents with some that make me want to stab myself in the ears instead of listening to their voice.

Dressed to Kill
Jul 23, 2007
The part where Mcnulty is describing his kids after losing them following Stringer he goes full on English.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming

Dressed to Kill posted:

The part where Mcnulty is describing his kids after losing them following Stringer he goes full on English.

There's also a part (not sure which season) he sings while drunk, and his English accent is painfully obvious. It might be when he's assembling the bunk beds for Sean and Matt.

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(

watt par posted:


They really hammer the parallel between Stringer and McNulty later on as two guys dying (figuratively in McNulty's case) for loving with the system too much.

Stringer and McNutty? I think you are thinking about season 3 and major Colvin.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming

Good ol' Bubs :allears:

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx

Fragmented posted:

Stringer and McNutty? I think you are thinking about season 3 and major Colvin.

Yeah Bunny too. Really everyone has to come to terms with the man in some way or another. Though Colvin eventually wins with Namond.

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(

escape artist posted:

Good ol' Bubs :allears:

Yeah if i ever call him McNulty it's only because i forgot his new name, given to him by the wise man of the streets, which is forever McNutty.

watt par i guess you mean what happens to them over the whole series vs a single season parallel? I can see that.

solovyov
Feb 23, 2006

LAWYER FIGHT

escape artist posted:

I love that scene.

You can hear a train whistle in the background just before he falls.

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx

Fragmented posted:

watt par i guess you mean what happens to them over the whole series vs a single season parallel? I can see that.

Yeah. It was spelled out over and over that they were both the smartest guys in their respective rooms and their downfall was looking for a way around the established rules of their institutions. Colvin obviously fits into that as well in both seasons 3 and 4.

Randomly Specific
Sep 23, 2012

My keys are somewhere in there.

escape artist posted:

Oh you clever one.


Anyway, since you are my partner in crime, how did the OP and the discussion turn out-- so far?

Don't say that, your avatar will cap my rear end and you'll end up doing the two days.

It's beautiful. I love it.

ETA: Especially not having to dance the spoiler dance. Any other show I'd agree with the whole 'It's been off the air forever' school of thought on spoilers, but The Wire should be unspoiled for all future generations. So it's awesome to have a thread purely for those who've finished the journey.

ETA YET AGAIN: And since we're approaching ep 2 and the whole McNulty tumbling down the hill scene, let's think on the symbolism involved in the song he's listening to. The whole 'scared away from the machine and not the cop' is a good catch on that scene.

Randomly Specific fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Dec 13, 2012

Bear Retrieval Unit
Nov 5, 2009

Mudslide Experiment
While we're on McNulty being drunk, there's a scene I never really got. I think it was in season 2, where McNulty drives drunk and crashes his car. He then gets out of the car, works out how the crash went, gets back in and recreates it. Is there anything more to that scene other than McNulty being self destructive as gently caress?

Bardog
Nov 26, 2005

Bear Retrieval Unit posted:

While we're on McNulty being drunk, there's a scene I never really got. I think it was in season 2, where McNulty drives drunk and crashes his car. He then gets out of the car, works out how the crash went, gets back in and recreates it. Is there anything more to that scene other than McNulty being self destructive as gently caress?

It's been awhile, but I've always thought that he tried to make the corner without crashing again. Sort of solving the corner so to speak. Of course he crashes again, says 'gently caress it' and goes to a diner and bangs the waitress.

Closet Cyborg
Jan 1, 2008
Our love will rust this world

Bear Retrieval Unit posted:

While we're on McNulty being drunk, there's a scene I never really got. I think it was in season 2, where McNulty drives drunk and crashes his car. He then gets out of the car, works out how the crash went, gets back in and recreates it. Is there anything more to that scene other than McNulty being self destructive as gently caress?

Pretty sure he's trying to convince himself that he should have been able to make that turn. And then trying it again because it obviously can't be his fault.

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

^^My guess at the time was that he figured the car was totaled and crashing it a few more times couldn't hurt, so why not? :shobon: McNutty gives zero fucks.^^

solovyov posted:

You can hear a train whistle in the background just before he falls.

It's really interesting seeing how trains keep on turning up (well, twice so far) during McNulty's more self destructive moments. He's already struggling with The Wire's terrible bureaucratic systems on a very personal level, with his fight over visitation rights as well as the Avon Barksdale fiasco. His inner demons are literally "the system", personified by an unstoppable locomotive, and he's placed himself on the tracks.

That's enough armchair analysis for now. I've only watched The Wire once about four years ago, so I'll lurk until my memory is refreshed. This is a fun thread and the detailed episode review is a good idea.

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Dec 13, 2012

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx

Bear Retrieval Unit posted:

While we're on McNulty being drunk, there's a scene I never really got. I think it was in season 2, where McNulty drives drunk and crashes his car. He then gets out of the car, works out how the crash went, gets back in and recreates it. Is there anything more to that scene other than McNulty being self destructive as gently caress?

Dominic West claims that story happened to an actual Balmer po-lice:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/dominic-west-on-the-hour-john-carter-and-yes-the-w,88995/2/

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo
Does anyone in The Wire actually pronounce it "Ballmer" ?

It happens all the time in Homicide.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy

Fruits of the sea posted:

^^My guess at the time was that he figured the car was totaled and crashing it a few more times couldn't hurt, so why not? :shobon: McNutty gives zero fucks.^^


It's really interesting seeing how trains keep on turning up (well, twice so far) during McNulty's more self destructive moments. He's already struggling with The Wire's terrible bureaucratic systems on a very personal level, with his fight over visitation rights as well as the Avon Barksdale fiasco. His inner demons are literally "the system", personified by an unstoppable locomotive, and he's placed himself on the tracks.

That's enough armchair analysis for now. I've only watched The Wire once about four years ago, so I'll lurk until my memory is refreshed. This is a fun thread and the detailed episode review is a good idea.

Which is great, because in season one, he is literally pissing in the face of the system, and then decides at the last second that he's actually going to work within it. A great metaphor about how almost hosed he was at that moment.

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx

MrBling posted:

Does anyone in The Wire actually pronounce it "Ballmer" ?

It happens all the time in Homicide.

The real Jay Landsman did.

Lugaloco
Jun 29, 2011

Ice to see you!

MrBling posted:

Does anyone in The Wire actually pronounce it "Ballmer" ?

It happens all the time in Homicide.

I'm fairly sure I've caught McNutty saying it on occasion, depending on who he's talking to and why.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming

Randomly Specific posted:

Don't say that, your avatar will cap my rear end and you'll end up doing the two days.

Only with a rat shot. What you need be concerned with is what is seated in the chamber afterward.

MrBling posted:

Does anyone in The Wire actually pronounce it "Ballmer" ?

It happens all the time in Homicide.

Just the natives.

Fruits of the sea posted:

His inner demons are literally "the system", personified by an unstoppable locomotive, and he's placed himself on the tracks.


See, but that's what Simon said is an incorrect analysis. I know it seems so obvious, but apparently Simon says it's much deeper than that.

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

escape artist posted:


Just the natives.


They should all be natives, damnit.

My immersion. :cry:

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming

MrBling posted:

They should all be natives, damnit.

My immersion. :cry:

Except Herc because he was brought in from NY.

<---------And, well, my man from NY as well.

And the "Greeks"

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo
True. Herc gets a pass for axing questions of people.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming

MrBling posted:

True. Herc gets a pass for axing questions of people.

You know what big hands mean?




...You know what big hands mean, right?...



. . . Gus Triando, power hitter, right?


There's one point during Season 1 where I swear he says "technus" instead of "tetanus"

escape artist fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 14, 2012

grading essays nude
Oct 24, 2009

so why dont we
put him into a canan
and shoot him into the trolls base where
ever it is and let him kill all of them. its
so perfect that it can't go wrong.

i think its the best plan i
have ever heard in my life

MrBling posted:

True. Herc gets a pass for axing questions of people.

Someone put it funnily in the other thread: maybe the most unrealistic plot ever shown on the show was Herc, a NY native, moving to Baltimore and apparently becoming an Orioles fan.

It's too bad there couldn't be more natives on the show, the real Jay and the school AP were both wonderful to listen to.

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo
I do like the way it came about though. Rather than him try to put on a (most likely) terrible Baltimore accent the producers just let him use his normal accent and then came up with the backstory for him.

Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010

escape artist posted:

See, but that's what Simon said is an incorrect analysis. I know it seems so obvious, but apparently Simon says it's much deeper than that.

That would have been my own first guess, because it's so obvious. I guess an alternative interpretation would be, uh, I don't know... but if we're just bullshitting...

Maybe the tracks are the police department, as in cop society, pursuit of career advancement, looking out for one another instead of doing the job. The train is McNulty's own inability to cope with being there, his insubordination, pride, alcoholism, tendency to gently caress himself up over dumb poo poo. What he really needs to do is get off the tracks--like when he was on the boat after season 1, or when he was walking a beat in the Western after season 3, and he was content and personally stable. But he can't help jumping on the tracks just so he can piss all over them: jumping into the heart of the department to gently caress the bosses and show everybody how smart he is. And when he's doing that, the train (his own hosed-up personality) is always barreling down at him.

chesh
Apr 19, 2004

That was terrible.

MrBling posted:

Does anyone in The Wire actually pronounce it "Ballmer" ?

It happens all the time in Homicide.

My stepmother grew up in Baltimore, and she and my Dad live there now. They say "Ballmer" all the drat time.

When I visit in the summer and we can sit on the front porch, we get to play my favorite game: Is That A Hooker, Or Is She Waiting For The Bus?

Edit:


Thanks to that article, I've just purchased Appropriate Adult on Amazon Instant.

chesh fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 14, 2012

The Rooster
Jul 25, 2004

If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one

EvanSchenck posted:

That would have been my own first guess, because it's so obvious. I guess an alternative interpretation would be, uh, I don't know... but if we're just bullshitting...

Maybe the tracks are the police department, as in cop society, pursuit of career advancement, looking out for one another instead of doing the job. The train is McNulty's own inability to cope with being there, his insubordination, pride, alcoholism, tendency to gently caress himself up over dumb poo poo. What he really needs to do is get off the tracks--like when he was on the boat after season 1, or when he was walking a beat in the Western after season 3, and he was content and personally stable. But he can't help jumping on the tracks just so he can piss all over them: jumping into the heart of the department to gently caress the bosses and show everybody how smart he is. And when he's doing that, the train (his own hosed-up personality) is always barreling down at him.

It's gotta extend beyond McNulty, since the trains are referenced even in scenes without him.

CaptainHollywood
Feb 29, 2008


I am an awesome guy and I love to make out during shitty Hollywood horror movies. I am a trendwhore!
Rewatching the first two episodes is making me realize it's really hard to see any of these actors in other roles without thinking of the wire.

Also, Herc is seen with the tennis ball in episode one. :ninja:

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

escape artist posted:

See, but that's what Simon said is an incorrect analysis. I know it seems so obvious, but apparently Simon says it's much deeper than that.

Huh.

An oncoming locomotive seems like a simple metaphor. They don't deviate, and anything that gets in their way is destroyed. Maybe there's some other quality that Simon had in mind?

The only other thing I can come up with is that trains represent the inevitability of progress. I got the impression that McNulty was one of the old guard, and while at first he's presented as being in his element, he gradually gets sidelined as the show goes on, and the drug game changes. This culminates in the last season with McNulty's crazy fake serial killer scheme. Baltimore does change quite a bit throughout the series, and while some of it changes for the better, a lot of people are crushed under the feetlocomotive wheels of said progress.

TXT BOOTY7 2 47474
Jan 12, 2006

eat your vegetables dot com
Another characteristic of trains besides running one direction and being tough to stop is multiple cars, most of which aren't able to push on without some force pulling them along. Compare McNulty being the driving force (towards destruction, that interpretation is sound to me regardless of what Simon's said) with a number of somewhat hesitant accomplices not necessarily just along for the ride, but definitely part of McNulty's train and not their own.

This works best, or at least most literally, for the 5th season with his phony serial killer but McNulty is adept throughout the series at pulling other 'cars' behind him in his path of terror.

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friendo55
Jun 28, 2008

I just wanted to chime in and say the initial OP and 1st episode summary is phenomenal - I'm glad I noticed this thread early!
It's been nearly 4 years since watching this series from start to finish, and this is a great excuse to watch it again.

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