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I think it's another way of showing which way the ladder goes. Here you have these hardened criminals, deal drugs all day and on occasion beat down and even murder rival dealers and other inconveniences. Despite that there's still Levy, the go-to lawyer who they all depend on when poo poo gets out of hand. He's their mole in the judicial system essentially, it more or less depends on him who takes how many years and who walks and who pays how much, etc. They answer to Levy when things get out of their control, he's their link to the world outside the drug game and their navigator through the judicial system. It's not unlike the way Bodie scolds Wallace or Avon scolds D, just the top players pulling rank on their subordinates to keep them in their place and keep their head straight.
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Dec 16, 2012 05:49
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Can no one recall the scene in season 3 where he's laughing in Stringer's face for just giving money to Clay Davis? He's in a position of power, like HoneyBoy says, he's on their side in a very important game. It is interesting to think of D in the box, Bodie in the box and Cheese in the box. Bird and Wee-Bey don't count because they had both of them dead to rights. D is clearly the dumbest. Starting to write the letter. Bodie waits for the cops to play their hand, gets lucky and then says "LAWYER!" (That and his entrapment defense make me love the character so much) The confusion during the Cheese incident could have played a lot of different ways, but Cheese keeps it cool until the dog is brought up. The cops think they've broken him, and then gently caress it all up. We see so much of Cops vs The Street, but I wish we could have seen more in the judicial sense. What those negotiations look like, what the challenges were in the war on drugs.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:34
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Boywhiz88 posted:We see so much of Cops vs The Street, but I wish we could have seen more in the judicial sense. What those negotiations look like, what the challenges were in the war on drugs. On that note, I like how people's preconception of the show is that it's "Cops vs. Robbers" when, in reality, it's "The Institution vs. The Individual" Another Season 5 callback-- during the serial killer thing, Judge Phelan has like 10 bottles of pills on his desk, when he only had one in the first season. Just a funny little thing. I've been skimming through episodes. Did you guys like the review post of episode 1? It's arduous, but I enjoy it. . . I can do it for each episode if you all want.
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Dec 16, 2012 17:41
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escape artist posted:Did you guys like the review post of episode 1? It's arduous, but I enjoy it. . . I can do it for each episode if you all want. Absolutely, I know it's going to get tedious but I think we'd all appreciate it if you continued the screenshot/breakdown of each episode. I own the box set but have only watched it once, a couple years ago. Looking forward to going through it again with you all 
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Dec 16, 2012 17:54
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Just as a heads up, Best Buy is selling every season of the Wire for $15 a pop this week.
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Dec 16, 2012 18:09
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escape artist posted:Did you guys like the review post of episode 1? It's arduous, but I enjoy it. . . I can do it for each episode if you all want. Yes, please! I've been eagerly awaiting episode 2.
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Dec 16, 2012 18:49
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Alright, no problem guys. I'm happy to do it. I've been a little slow (a little late...) on episode 2 because I've got a stomach virus and a foot injury, but if I get behind I'll make it up. Fret not! And you know what, I like doing it. It keeps me on my toes. I notice things I wouldn't otherwise notice. I put more effort into the recaps than I do into schoolwork. Also, if someone has seen the show and doesn't have access to it at the moment, the posts can serve as a substitute. I just ask one thing... You pardon my grammatical and other errors. I referred to Bunk as a lady, I think, in the first recap 
escape artist fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 19:13
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Also reinforcing - I love the write up and would love to see it continue. Just one more vote for it.
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Dec 16, 2012 19:21
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Also reinforcing - I love the write up and would love to see it continue. Just one more vote for it. Thanks. You got it. Expect the next one in the next 24 hours.
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Dec 16, 2012 19:23
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escape artist posted:On that note, I like how people's preconception of the show is that it's "Cops vs. Robbers" when, in reality, it's "The Institution vs. The Individual" I meant more in the sense of the institutions we see. We definitely some of the issues that Rhonda and Phelan have, but what else, ya know? That write up was worth it for the Chicken v Beef alone. Please keep going! Also, hope ya feel better.
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Dec 16, 2012 19:26
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Boywhiz88 posted:I meant more in the sense of the institutions we see. We definitely some of the issues that Rhonda and Phelan have, but what else, ya know? Well there's also Rhonda and Rupert (can't remember his last name) in later seasons. But I understand. Also, glad you all enjoyed the first write-up. Thanks for the well-wishes. I've got some medication and am finally feeling better. Slept 2 hours in the past 48 or so.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:28
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escape artist posted:Another Season 5 callback-- during the serial killer thing, Judge Phelan has like 10 bottles of pills on his desk, when he only had one in the first season. Just a funny little thing. Head just exploded. This is journalism porn.
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Dec 16, 2012 20:44
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Something that only really just occurred to me and was probably pretty obvious to everyone else is the parallel between the deaths of the witnesses in season 1 and season 4. In season 1, the witness (Willie Gant) is murdered presumably on Avon's orders though I don't think that is ever formally admitted to by him. The police are desperate to ignore that he was a witness, and when the press picks it up they insist that the fact he was a witness is just a coincidence. They hold a press conference to that effect, hauling poor old Bunk up along with Rawls (McNulty tells Kima that Bunk should have grabbed the mic and called for armed insurrection in the streets  ) to state that they're investigating many other leads that indicate his death was nothing to do with being a witness. Eventually the story just disappears, becoming another in a long series of unsolved murders.In season 4, another witness is killed (I can't recall his name, sadly) but this time during an election year. Carcetti uses the information expertly to paint Royce as soft on crime, unable to manage a city gone mad and run by gangsters. Once again the police fail to investigate this aspect of the crime, but this time because they don't want to raise the ire of the eventual winner of the election if their investigation potentially makes him look bad. After the election is over, Kima is allowed to fully investigate and quickly discovers that the "murder" was actually a horrible accident. The crime is solved, and as is noted,"Carcetti gets to be Mayor behind this bullshit?", which makes everything that follows in season 4 and season 5 possible. It's interesting to see that in season one a witness is (probably) murdered by gangsters and nothing ever happens because of it. But in season 4, a witness is killed in a horrible accident that is erroneously blamed on gangsters, and it has a massive change on Baltimore in terms of politics both in the city, eventually in the State itself and who knows, maybe even one day the country as a whole.
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Dec 16, 2012 21:18
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It's all in the game. (Good post, btw)
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Dec 16, 2012 22:21
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Just to add to the earlier discussion about Clark Johnson, but he also was the director of Shields first and last episode and was a huge influence on the look of the show...
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Dec 16, 2012 22:48
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Jerusalem posted:It's interesting to see that in season one a witness is (probably) murdered by gangsters and nothing ever happens because of it. But in season 4, a witness is killed in a horrible accident that is erroneously blamed on gangsters, and it has a massive change on Baltimore in terms of politics both in the city, eventually in the State itself and who knows, maybe even one day the country as a whole. Probably worth mentioning, and I'm sure pretty much everyone here's already aware, but for anyone who doesn't know Carcetti is largely based on the former mayor of Baltimore and current governor of Maryland Martin O'Malley, who'll likely have a failed run for the presidency in 2016. And like the show, O'Malley's successor Sheila Dixon, who Nerese Campbell was based on, was president of the city council before being elected mayor. She was forced to resign in a plea deal after getting caught stealing Best Buy gift cards. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 23:02
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If I remember right, Sheila Dixon used to laud The Wire to everybody who would listen, until they introduced the Nerese Campbell character and suddenly the show wasn't so great anymore 
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Dec 16, 2012 23:48
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I'm always surprised when a politician (Sheila Dixon, Barack Obama) praises The Wire. The show is about how you and people like you have failed those who needed you the most, why would you then release a statement saying "yeah, that's about right."
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Dec 17, 2012 00:05
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I'm always surprised when a politician (Sheila Dixon, Barack Obama) praises The Wire. The show is about how you and people like you have failed those who needed you the most, why would you then release a statement saying "yeah, that's about right." It's even funnier when people like Obama seem to miss the point and praise someone like Omar above all else in the show. Though he was probably just playing it safe, I can't imagine it being beneficial for him to take up with any messages about corruption laden throughout US institutions. If I recall correctly he later had to explain that his liking Omar didn't mean he condoned his behavior.
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Dec 17, 2012 00:35
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Speaking of which did David Simon ever say anything about half the cast of the show stumping for Obama in both elections?
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Dec 17, 2012 00:41
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I'm pretty sure Simon himself voted for Obama at least once. He mentioned it in an interview, saying he was (paraphrasing) "very disappointed in some of Obama's policies but happy with others". However I think it may have been an interview that Simon was unhappy with due to editing reasons so take it all with a pinch of salt I guess.
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Dec 17, 2012 00:45
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Jerusalem posted:In season 1, the witness (Willie Gant) is murdered presumably on Avon's orders though I don't think that is ever formally admitted to by him. It's never formally admitted but Wee-Bey takes responsibility for killing Gant when he's copping to all those other murders and it's pretty safe to say he doesn't act without Avon telling him to
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Dec 17, 2012 01:35
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HoneyBoy posted:It's even funnier when people like Obama seem to miss the point and praise someone like Omar above all else in the show. Though he was probably just playing it safe, I can't imagine it being beneficial for him to take up with any messages about corruption laden throughout US institutions. If I recall correctly he later had to explain that his liking Omar didn't mean he condoned his behavior. I'm far from an Obama apologist, but it's a bit loving much to suggest that he of all people has missed the point of The Wire. Like anybody in this thread has as much experience negotiating hosed up institutions in a racist country as the first black man elected President of the United States. Why wouldn't he love Omar? Why wouldn't he embrace the fantasy of striking out on your own and living by your own code? And what danger is there in expressing affection for a show that has a small but overwhelmingly liberal audience? Like FOX News is going to get caught up in the *themes* of The Wire in lieu of the crazy random reductive racist poo poo they push. I love this show, but Obama's reality makes almost every character in it look like a cartoon by comparison. I'm not even sure where to start in assembling the pieces of him. Throw together the savviest parts of Avon, Stringer & Carcetti and it still comes up short.
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Dec 17, 2012 03:15
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Trap Star posted:It's never formally admitted but Wee-Bey takes responsibility for killing Gant when he's copping to all those other murders and it's pretty safe to say he doesn't act without Avon telling him to Just so I'm not misunderstanding, are we assuming that Wee-Bey was really the one responsible? Because Bird was the one convicted, and until now I believed that he was responsible, but right now I remember where Stringer whispers to McNulty in the trial that the word on the street is that Bird was all the way across town when Gant got hit. So if Wee-Bey was the one responsible, I guess it's a case of the cops tolerating some slight dirt (a lying witness) in order to take down a Barksdale soldier? Also, love this. I last watched through The Wire a few months ago, but I'm totally happy to do it again. I'll do my best to follow along the rewatch with you guys
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Dec 17, 2012 03:27
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Trap Star posted:It's never formally admitted but Wee-Bey takes responsibility for killing Gant when he's copping to all those other murders and it's pretty safe to say he doesn't act without Avon telling him to I thought Bird was eventually convicted of it. Wee-Bey tried to eat the charge but the ballistics matched Bird's favorite piece. watt par posted:Probably worth mentioning, and I'm sure pretty much everyone here's already aware, but for anyone who doesn't know Carcetti is largely based on the former mayor of Baltimore and current governor of Maryland Martin O'Malley, who'll likely have a failed run for the presidency in 2016. And like the show, O'Malley's successor Sheila Dixon, who Nerese Campbell was based on, was president of the city council before being elected mayor. She was forced to resign in a plea deal after getting caught stealing Best Buy gift cards. O'Malley makes a cameo in Season 5, IIRC. Renzian posted:Just so I'm not misunderstanding, are we assuming that Wee-Bey was really the one responsible? Because Bird was the one convicted, and until now I believed that he was responsible, but right now I remember where Stringer whispers to McNulty in the trial that the word on the street is that Bird was all the way across town when Gant got hit. So if Wee-Bey was the one responsible, I guess it's a case of the cops tolerating some slight dirt (a lying witness) in order to take down a Barksdale soldier?
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Dec 17, 2012 04:19
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escape artist posted:O'Malley makes a cameo in Season 5, IIRC. If you could work in to your recaps when real life people appear, I'd appreciate it. I've read a lot about various pols/ex-dealers appearing but I'm not good enough to match them.
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Dec 17, 2012 06:35
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E the Shaggy posted:Just as a heads up, Best Buy is selling every season of the Wire for $15 a pop this week. You're awesome, I'm picking up a full set tonight for my third rewatch!
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Dec 17, 2012 07:27
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escape artist posted:I thought Bird was eventually convicted of it. Wee-Bey tried to eat the charge but the ballistics matched Bird's favorite piece. Yes, Bird was convicted of it. And since Bird's trial takes place after Wee-Bey tried to claim he did it, it is clear that ballistics point to Bird.
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Dec 17, 2012 08:57
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It's funny, I actually forgot that Gant's murder was solved. I guess I was just remembering the trial itself and not who it was all about. And yes, Wee-Bey tries to take the blame but the detectives see through that as a plot. Wee-Bey's entire "confession" scene really is a sight to see - his utter confidence and the blase way he lists off murder after murder, knowing that they can come back to him with the Death Penalty later on anything he doesn't list which actually gives him an odd kind of immunity. His loyalty is beyond question ("Bey's solid as a rock," Avon says at one point a couple of episodes earlier, from memory) because it is based on the notion that if he takes these things on his own back then the security and well-being of his family is guaranteed for life, and his own security and well-being in prison as well. He is effectively negotiating a retirement package, taking on all the poo poo floating around the Barksdales, being a company man and being rewarded for his hard work. In season 2 we see that he and Avon live well in prison, and when one guard makes trouble for him they absolutely destroy the man's life. Twice actually, since it's revealed that they killed a family member of his in the past, and while it has dominated his life entirely, Avon doesn't even remember that it was down to the Barksdales. If I remember right, he looks bemused and asks Wee-Bey,"That was us?" Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Dec 17, 2012 |
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Dec 17, 2012 10:04
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I'm wondering how the hell does Avon live as well as he does? Doesn't he have a PS3 or something and KFC food etc. Does he basically have the entire prison bribed? Does stuff like that actually fly in the U.S. (because usually American prisons sound like they are somewhere between a Soviet gulag and Azkaban).
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Dec 17, 2012 |
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Dec 17, 2012 10:21
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DarkCrawler posted:I'm wondering how the hell does Avon live as well as he does? Doesn't he have a PS3 or something and KFC food etc. Does he basically have the entire prison bribed? Does stuff like that actually fly in the U.S. (because usually American prisons sound like they are somewhere between a Soviet gulag and Azkaban). I'm sure there is an element of dramatization to the whole thing, but keep in mind that prison guards have pretty lovely jobs with pretty lovely pay. If some prisoner wants to throw you an extra $50 to let him have some KFC or look the other way about some entertainment contraband I imagine quite a few guards would figure why the hell not? I imagine the thought process is probably along the lines of,"It's not like I'm giving the guy a weapon, and he's still in prison so it's not like it is hurting anyone, plus if I don't do it another guard will anyway." Edit: There was an interesting thing a journalist/academic did where he had some real life gangsters come in to watch The Wire with him and he recorded their thoughts/feelings on the realism (or not) of the show. I was always interested in the fact that every single one of them was adamant that Bunk was on the take, and that they saw absolutely nothing morally wrong with that at all. Their reasoning was that a policeman is paid badly, a policeman "in the pocket" wasn't likely to cross a certain line and you'd be foolish to ask him to, but giving him a few extra bucks in return for information/early warning of investigations and the like was perfectly fine. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Dec 17, 2012 |
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Dec 17, 2012 10:31
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Jerusalem posted:It's funny, I actually forgot that Gant's murder was solved. I guess I was just remembering the trial itself and not who it was all about. "You need a scorecard to keep up with your lethal rear end." Wee-Bey was a great character, I'm glad he didn't just drop off like Bird did going into prison. It was so good to see him standing up for Namond come season 4, "Man come down here to say my son can be anything he drat please." I mean, here he is in prison and he's already being a better parent than De'Londa could ever hope to be.
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Dec 17, 2012 10:38
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Wee-Bey is amazing. Also had some funny moments, too: 1) When he tries to eat too much hot sauce 2) When he barters a few more murders for some "tater salad" 3) His love of fish.
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Dec 17, 2012 10:44
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Wee-Bey in season 4 really is amazing. Watching him offering his sage advice to Namond, but actually listening when Bunny comes in and learning from that was such a (desperately needed) glimmer of hope.HoneyBoy posted:"Man come down here to say my son can be anything he drat please." I love the pride in his voice on that line. The sad thing is that until somebody said it to him, it had apparently never occurred to him.
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Dec 17, 2012 10:44
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DarkCrawler posted:I'm wondering how the hell does Avon live as well as he does? Doesn't he have a PS3 or something and KFC food etc. Does he basically have the entire prison bribed? Does stuff like that actually fly in the U.S. (because usually American prisons sound like they are somewhere between a Soviet gulag and Azkaban). That used to happen a lot more back in the day especially with mafia guys. Nowadays it's done more by gangs from the outside helping out members inside, with guards paid to look the other way, or sometimes part of the gangs themselves. Also, guards (and private prison owners in the case of CCA) pay gangs to act as enforcement inside to avoid having to fight prisoners themselves. That's another thing the Wire really missed out on. OZ sorta overlapped, but that was way more fantastical. To answer a larger question American prisons run the gamut from good to bad. The nicest ones are almost indistinguishable from public schools and the worst like Pelican Bay's SHU you wouldn't send your worst enemy to. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Dec 17, 2012 |
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Dec 17, 2012 12:41
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Well, The Wire "missed out" on a lot things because David Simon wisely chose to make a tv show about the things he actually knows. I guess that is why the war on drugs (sub-)narrative doesn't really concern itself with prisons beyond trying to get people in there. And people leaving it. It would be great to see a show with the intensity and seriousness of The Wire tackling prison life but I doubt it would ever happen.
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Dec 17, 2012 13:03
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I mean like if the show had gone on to a sixth season or beyond. David Simon had said he planned to include the Latino experience in Baltimore in a potential sixth season, despite knowing little about it himself, so it's not as if it would be completely out of left field. The show did pretty good touching on the connection between prison and the street, but given how especially for black men prisons are an extension of the same institutional framework which guides their lives as schools, it's worthy of a season unto itself.
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Dec 17, 2012 17:12
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I just started watching this show for the first time. I am addicted. I have crushed 10 episodes of season one in like three days. loving Omar. Whenever he's in a scene I usually watch it twice. That man is the street shakespeare. Brutal realism. Incredible dialogue. Seriously, incredible dialogue. This show is the tits. This makes Breaking Bad look like Transformers. I never thought I would enjoy a "cop drama". It was never my thing, really. But this show is awesome. I am almost done with finals and winter break is going to wiretastic. I like how they slowly hint that the whole operation goes much higher then the projects. Senatorial aid with 20g in cash? Like 20 million in yearly revenue? Is the whole show going to be one case that just builds and builds? Don't answer that. Unfortunately, this thread is spoilerific so I won't be able to participate very much. Maybe I will start a wire newbies thread? I don't know if there will be a market for it though. I will still read your episodic reviews tho escape artist, if they aren't too spoilery!
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Dec 17, 2012 19:36
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hobbez posted:I just started watching this show for the first time. I am addicted. I have crushed 10 episodes of season one in like three days. loving Omar. Whenever he's in a scene I usually watch it twice. That man is the street shakespeare. Thanks for saying this is better than Breaking Bad. I enjoy Breaking Bad, but drat if it doesn't bother me-- to an unreasonable extent-- when people say it is better than The Wire.
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Dec 17, 2012 19:39
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Jerusalem posted:I'm sure there is an element of dramatization to the whole thing, but keep in mind that prison guards have pretty lovely jobs with pretty lovely pay. If some prisoner wants to throw you an extra $50 to let him have some KFC or look the other way about some entertainment contraband I imagine quite a few guards would figure why the hell not? I imagine the thought process is probably along the lines of,"It's not like I'm giving the guy a weapon, and he's still in prison so it's not like it is hurting anyone, plus if I don't do it another guard will anyway." There's this, and also the fact that most of the COs are working class African Americans from the same community as Avon. So, not only do they know his rep and see that they don't want to make him their enemy, but they're also likely to share a somewhat jaundiced view of the criminal justice system. Officer Tilghman takes it the farthest, smuggling drugs in on his own, but buying KFC and letting Avon have extra privileges is pretty harmless. Michael G. Santos was in the federal prison system for decades after running a coke ring for upper-class white kids in the 1980s, and he wrote some books about his experience that are really fascinating. Compared to some of the real-life prisoners Santos discusses, Avon's operation inside the prison is pretty low-key.
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Dec 17, 2012 19:40
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