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 (banner by Phiggle) 'Betus had me and Phiggle on his podcast a little while ago  Get MMD here!In our continuing series 'Dectilon makes Phiggle play': Maldita CastillaAnd now also Rockman: Minus InfinityHave you ever played a game that kicked your rear end? Kicked your rear end so badly you’d grimace and swear at an inanimate object? Or one where completing it gave you a sense of accomplishment that most games just don't do? In this thread we’re going to showcase hard games. Both the terrible, baffling ones that seems to chisel at your soul until you, in pure confusion and frustration, give up. And the excellent, where thought and strategy is rewarded; the kinds that make you feel awesome when you master them. This thread will be kind of a group effort. Each person involved will contribute an LP. The people currently involved are: Charkie Silver Surfer Chip Cheezum Incredible Crisis Dectilon Gradius 5 (scroll down slightly) Diabetus GuidoAnchovies Shadow of the Beast Phiggle VVVVVV Psychedelic Eyeball Street Fighter 2010 Slowbeef Contra 3 Revenge of Shinobi Violen Thevoiceofdog Star Tropics Star Tropics II But some additional ones might be added soon! Feel free to contribute one-off videos and such! As long as it’s not completely terrible I’ll add it to the the second post. I will start things off with...  Few genres have as strong a reputation for difficulty as the shoot ‘em ups. To do well you need a focus and precision rarely seen in other genres of games which can be intimidating. The worst of them are simply a repetitive grey sauce of rote memorization and luck, whereas the best are a crescendo of impressive set pieces and inventive visuals that keeps teaching and testing the player, and pushes the boundaries of what the player thinks is possible. Gradius is probably the most famous shoot ‘em up series, and Gradius 5 is unquestionably the best. It puts more control in the hands of the player without greatly increasing the complexity. It keeps the level of difficulty high while reducing frustration and making it easier to learn. I hope I can manage to convey just how much I like this game, and why it’s an excellent example of a hard game done right. Intro Level 1 - UNIVERSE Boss timeout - Looping Core Level 2 - BATTLESHIP Boss timeout - Death Boss timeout - Tetran Boss timeout - Big Core Boss timeout - Big Core Mk.2 Level 3 - FORTRESS Level 4 - CELL LEVEL 5 - METEOR LEVEL 6 - SOMETHING GREEN Boss timeout - Rotating Core Boss timeout - Spherical Core Boss timeout - Big Core Mk.3 Boss timeout - Covered Core LEVEL 7 - IMPREGNABLE FORTRESS Boss timeout - Beacon Boss timeout - Keeper Core LEVEL 8 - FINAL ENEMY Dectilon fucked around with this message at 10:10 on May 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2012 17:44
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Allmightybob - Wizards&Warriors 2 Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Capt. J. Linebeck - Super Mario Bros: Lost Levels World 1 World 2 World 3 World 4 World 5 World 6 World 7 World 8 World 9 Deathchicken - Maximum Carnage OP Dectilon - The Adventures of Batman and Robin Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4 Contra 1: Full playthrough Super C: Full playthrough Contra Shattered Soldier: OP dis astranagant - Ecco the Dolphin Ecco OP Fragger - N+ 1-4 5-9 10-14 15-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40-44 45-49 FreezingInferno - Super Star Wars Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 - Contra 4 Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3 Stage 4 Stage 5 Stage 6 Stage 7 Stage 8 Stage 9 Frozentreasure - pid pid OP Gammatron - 1943 Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 GmanTheTank - Contra Force Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4 KingEffinFrost - MightyBombJack Level 1,2&3 Level 4,5&6 Level 7-10 Level 11-13 Level 14-??? Castlevania OP MeccaPrime - Sub-Terrania Mission 1-4 Mission 5-7 Mission 8-9 MyNameIsKaz - Banana Nababa 1. Voodoo Mask 2. Swarm Lord 3. Plague Beetle 4. Giga Slith 5. Gatekeeper 6. ??? Nidoking - Eryi's Action Levels 1-3 Blip Youtube Levels 4-6 Blip Youtube Levels 7-9 Blip Youtube Level 10 and Final Blip Youtube Eryi's Action EX: Blip Youtube Eryi's Action EX: The Final Boss Blip Youtube Ragny - Hyper Princess Pitch Death to christmas? Tintin au Tibet Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Another world: Full playthrough Simon - Megaman Dongs?! Really?! Snakemanmn - Journey to Silius Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3 Tomapella - Metal Storm Level 1-3 Level 4-5 Level 6 to the end Level 1, loop 2 Level 2, loop 2 Level 3, loop 2 Level 4, loop 2 Level 5, loop 2 Level 6 to the end, loop 2 The man with a hat - Batman Stage 1: Gotham City (YouTube / Polsy) Stage 2: the Axis Chemical Factory. (YouTube / Polsy) The Proofreader - Ninja Gaiden (NES) Act 1 Act 2 Tsym - DoDonPachi Daioujou Black Label (AAAAH!) Level 1-2 Level 3 Level 4 Level 5 Level 1&2 - Loop 2 Level 3 - Loop 2 Level 4 - Loop 2 Level 5 - Loop 2 Xenoveritas - Milon's Secret Castle First Floor Self-hosted (60FPS) YouTube Zeiker - Kid Chameleon Contra Hard Corps Dectilon fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2012 17:44
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I'm pumped for this thread. Gradius V is one of my all-time favorites and a generally brilliant game. I never knew that the rings would just bounce off you though, that's new to me...
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Dec 16, 2012 17:52
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 Silver Surfer is an NES shmup released back in 1990, and is notorious for its difficulty. Flying around with the goddamn semi-truck of a hitbox that is the Silver Surfer, one touch from anything will kill you and take away all of your powerups, options and bombs. Add to that tight corridors and enemy patterns designed to catch you off guard, and you've got a game that isn't afraid to make you hate it. And I just so happen to love it. I'll be playing through Silver Surfer and trying to gives tips on how to approach levels (all of those tips are "don't die"). Joining me is Mr. Swoon, who may have actually read a comic book at some point and is way more qualified to talk about the characters than I am. So, slather on your silver body paint and let's play Silver Surfer!                   Charkie fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Feb 3, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2012 17:53
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Silver Surfer is even BEATABLE?
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Dec 16, 2012 18:12
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Oh wow, that banner image is awesome and super impressive. I hope those characters are actually representative of the games we will be seeing here, because there are some gems there.
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Dec 16, 2012 18:48
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This feels like my kinda place. I love me some hard games. I might even make a one-off for this here thread... if I can find a hard game I like that hasn't been played out to death. Maybe the Hunt For Red October on the NES. That's kind of hard.
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Dec 16, 2012 19:46
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I love that image banner. I guess Phiggle made it?
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Dec 16, 2012 19:53
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a spooky ghost posted:I hope those characters are actually representative of the games we will be seeing here, because there are some gems there. Here is a teaser trailer and answer to your question while I finish update 1 of the game I'm going to be playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aDog660SbA
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Dec 16, 2012 23:01
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Oh I hope someone plays Holy Diver.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:48
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I've always been curious to see more than just random clips of a Gradius game. That on top of the nature of this thread has me excited. I hope someone is doing Ikaruga (my personal favorite of the "Excellent" variety). If not I'd be happy to give a one-off a shot.
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Dec 16, 2012 23:48
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Every thread needs a banner image like that. I'm definitely on board with this thread, especially with the potential game line-up. Heck, the Gradius V video already has me wanting to dig my copy out and give it a play-through or two. It's the right kind of difficult and definitely a great choice to lead the thread.
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Dec 17, 2012 01:01
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a spooky ghost posted:Oh wow, that banner image is awesome and super impressive. I hope those characters are actually representative of the games we will be seeing here, because there are some gems there. I'm looking forward to The Guardian Legend, that game is stupid hard and I remember getting stuck at some 'plot point' as a kid and never getting past it. I'll be doing Startropics, should have the first chapter up around tuesday. It's not nearly as hard as some of the games in this thread early on but it pulls a lot of cheap deaths on the player throughout the game.
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Dec 17, 2012 07:57
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I've always wanted to see more shmup LPs on this subforum. Definitely following this closely. Please tell me that Slowbeef and Billy M.C. will be tag-teaming Lost Levels at some point, because that would be loving glorious.
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Dec 17, 2012 08:11
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 (Pictured: Mighty Bomb Jack box after being thrown at the wall 50 times by a frustrated 6 year old.) Mighty Bomb Jack was originally an arcade game, but was later released on the NES in 1987 by Tecmo. It's a 16-stage platformer, but it has some light puzzle elements to it as well. The main puzzle is: "How do I avoid dying horribly?" It is not always solvable. Mighty Bomb Jack throws a lot of bullshit at the player, some of which has to be seen to be believed, and much that cannot be seen because it's invisible stuff that you have to find through trial and error and is also required to complete the game with the best ending. That said, I think it's a fun game, in moderation. The jumping physics are what make this game worthwhile to me, as they're actually extremely precise allowing for some seriously cool aerial maneuvers. It's also been released on both the Wii Virtual Console and, very recently, the 3DS Virtual Console as well if you want to play along! Levels 1 through 3 Levels 4 through 6 Levels 7 through 10 Levels 11 through 13 Levels 14-? KingEffingFrost fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jan 14, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2012 08:39
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Huh. And now the game Mighty Jill Off makes so much more sense. Though that game was kind enough to give you infinite lives.
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Dec 17, 2012 11:29
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Bovineicide posted:Please tell me that Slowbeef and Billy M.C. will be tag-teaming Lost Levels at some point, because that would be loving glorious. Clearly Slowbeef is doing Battletoads and Diabetus is doing The Immortal.
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Dec 17, 2012 11:35
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Holy crap, Silver Surfer. I was a comics geek from early on (dropped the habit in my teens) and that was the very first marvel-character game I got as a gift when I was 10 or so. I went at that game with something like religious zeal. It laughed at my inept childish persistence and bitch-slapped me twice before sending me off.
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Dec 17, 2012 16:23
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Oho, this thread is relevant to my interests. I love me a good hard game, though I do hope that this thread is a bit less NES oriented than the pretty banner suggests. Modern indie/doujin games pull off difficult gaming with much better results than anything I can think of from the NES era. Nothing from back then can hold a candle to modern marriages of superb game design and extreme difficulty like Super Meat Boy or the tragically obscure Asakura! P. Whereas difficulty used to be a consequence of poor design and a need for a short game to entertain a kid for a longer period of time, now it's often a distinct design goal in and of itself. Anyway I've got a video that should fit right into this thread, but I see the game it's from is already represented in the thread banner. As such I think I'll wait until that game has already been covered to post it. Also I owned Mighty Bomb Jack as a kid and I never had any idea what I was doing in it. Ever. I thought I got pretty far, but years later I would learn that I didn't have the tiniest clue about all the arcane hidden poo poo you need to find to get the real ending! Kefit fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Dec 18, 2012 |
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Dec 18, 2012 01:03
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I somehow forgot that 'Betus had me and Phiggle on his podcast a little while ago.
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Dec 19, 2012 14:08
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Dectilon posted:I somehow forgot that 'Betus had me and Phiggle on his podcast a little while ago. People interested in a thread like this, people playing some tough games but not so they can pretend to be really angry, should check this out. I actually listened to it just yesterday and thought a lot of what you and Phiggle talked about was really interesting. Specifically, a lot of your ideas Dectilon, about approaching games a puzzles with reflexes, were just really respectfully and intelligently submitted. I want to try and keep some of those things in mind the next time I get stuck playing whatever.
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Dec 19, 2012 14:37
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Aw, that's very nice of you to say 
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Dec 19, 2012 14:49
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 VVVVVV Official Website VVVVVV is a first-rate indie platformer made in a Commodore 64 style. It was released in early 2010 by Terry Cavanagh (website), a guy known for a bunch of other indie games including his latest, Super Hexagon. The first challenge of VVVVVV is pronouncing it. Say "the letter V six times," say "Vee," say "Vee-Six," or if you want (my personal preference), just make a loud "vuv" sound lasting at least 6 seconds. That should do it. Anyway, once you've got that down, the second challenge is a speedrun to go get the flat-out amazing soundtrack, PPPPPP, by Magnus "Souleye" Pålsson. You can preview it on Bandcamp right here. I am linking PPPPPP again here in case you missed it because it is that good. Of course, the main challenge of the game is the platforming. It's a really thorough exploration of a one-button mechanic: rather than jump, the protagonist flips his gravity, walking along ceilings, floors, and tiny, tiny platforms as needed to make progress. The level design adds elements that combine with the flipping mechanic to keep things difficult and interesting without changing the core gameplay. Deaths are common, but checkpoints are all over the place. On the one hand, this means you don't need to worry about losing a lot of hard-earned progress to deaths. On the other, the frequent checkpoints give the levels a chance to present surprises and strong challenges back-to-back. Even though some parts of the game may make you want to claw your eyes out as a result, like that one shiny trinket, you always feel like you're just one step away from a breakthrough. That's the kind of hard game I love. What you can expect from this LP I'll show off all the levels and trinkets as well as other little secrets as best I can. This will involve a little backtracking, but I'll keep it tight. I may also show some choice player-created levels. If I've missed a big secret or something you really like by the time we clear the game, let me know! There are also some notorious challenges in this game, including a certain part with a timer that I am terrible at. I'll record the best runs I can of those segments. If you can do better, then by all means show off, but please don't show them until the LP gets there. Let's go!  The main tunes you heard this time: Presenting VVVVVV | Pushing Onwards  This time you heard: Passion for Exploring | Potential for Anything  You heard these again: Passion for Exploring | Pushing Onwards  This time you heard: Predestined Fate  This time you heard: Pressure Cooker  This time you heard: Positive Force  You heard this again: Positive Force  You heard these and they are great: Predestined Fate | Positive Force | Popular Potpourri  Cool tracks: Plenary | Pipe Dream  Your favorite intermission track: Predestined Fate BONUS: Watch as Apt Funk V-ranks the time trials!       BONUS: unpronounceable speedruns the hell out of Intermission 1! Click here for the video and tactics!   BONUS: Kefit cleared No Death Mode Click here for the post! Phiggle fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2012 20:43
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The reflex platforming puzzle approach is how I've been thinking of difficult precision based platformers for some time now. This is why I don't take any issue with a game like IWBTG forcing you to die a few times to figure out the "solution" to a room. It's all a fun part of the process for me, and so long save points are frequent then there's no problem. And hey, if the deaths are clever enough to make me laugh then that's simply a bonus. Then, once I learn the game, it can be quite fun to return and do a run through with fewer save points. Ultimately, the fewer the save points, the more the player is required to fully understand each challenge in his path. To me that can mean a great deal of fun so long as presented with the proper balance. VVVVVV is actually a very difficult game, mostly due to the speed at which Captain Viridian moves. But the massive number of save points (often multiple on a single small screen) makes the game much more approachable for the vast majority of players. Unfortunately this had the opposite effect on me. I never felt much sense of accomplishment in my progression. It felt more like blundering through until I got lucky enough to hit that next save point rather than a process of learning and synthesizing a level segment under my own power. However, I returned to the game several times over the years, and runs at some of the challenge modes made me realize just how expertly designed the levels are once removed from the dulling effect of all those checkpoints. I don't really expect this view to be popular, but it accurately reflects my VVVVVV play experience. I'll probably have a bit more to say as the LP goes on.
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Dec 19, 2012 21:48
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There's also custom levels that you can play if you want other challenges; one I played had zero checkpoints, and was incredibly fun.
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Dec 19, 2012 22:08
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The soundtracks for VVVVVV and Silver Surfer are awesome.
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Dec 19, 2012 22:57
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Is there anything you could do about both yours and your co-commentator's audio? Because both sound kinda bad, like they were recorded with a terrible microphone and/or over a low quality Skype call.
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Dec 19, 2012 23:23
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Pray for my soul as I attempt something truly difficult. Sub-Terrania is a game that was released back in the early nineties for the Sega Genesis (Megadrive). It is notoriously hard to play even on the normal difficulty (so much so that I thought I was doing hard mode back when I first did the LP of this game). I've decided to revisit it and do it justice by actually finishing it in hard mode. At its core, it is a SHMUP, but only in the sense that you pilot a ship and you shoot things, it gets different from there. It is a free-roaming SHMUP that adds gravity and fuel consumption into the mix. Not only do you have to fight enemies, but you have to worry about running out of gas and falling to your inevitable death(s). Points of note: 1: The enemies want you dead 2: The environment wants you dead 3: Gravity wants you dead 4: Even your own ship wants you dead 5: The game developers want you IRL dead With that in mind, let's get going! Missions 1-4: YoutubeI think I can get this wrapped up in three videos max. Enjoy!
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Dec 20, 2012 05:59
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MeccaPrime posted:SUBTERRANIA This looks a lot like Solar Jetman for the NES. Including the "everything wants you dead" theme. And yes, Silver Surfer's music is face-meltingly awesome for an NES game. I mean drat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J0H5ah1G7A
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Dec 20, 2012 06:23
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I love Sub-Terrania. It was one of the inaugural Awful Games Done Quick from AGDQ (speeddemosarchive's charity speedrun marathon). The game is notorious for the RNG deciding to roll back to back critical failures on pretty much everything. It is also incredibly technically challenging and pretty dang unique for its time, and not at all an awful game. Just one that hates you.
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Dec 20, 2012 06:39
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MeccaPrime posted:Pray for my soul as I attempt something truly difficult. I loving loved this game as a kid but drat does it get bullshit in places. Between the part where the gravity finally decides it's through with your poo poo and the gigantic final level it was a real mindfuck as a 10 year old with no internet. E: wow, you spent all that time going after the life on level 2 but didn't go grab the first actual weapon upgrade of the game. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Dec 20, 2012 |
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Dec 20, 2012 07:09
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Sub-Terrania looks like a neat game that's moving a little too fast. Maybe that has to do with the difficulty setting? If the music is done by the same composer as Adventures of batman and robin (which was awesome) it would be by Jesper Kyd. He works for Ubisoft now I think.
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Dec 20, 2012 10:58
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dis astranagant posted:E: wow, you spent all that time going after the life on level 2 but didn't go grab the first actual weapon upgrade of the game. Yeah, by the time I got the extra life, I was kind of done with that bullshit and didn't really want to deal with the springy spiky thing down by the upgrade that kills you in one hit if you're not careful. (I actually forgot about it, sorry. I did grab the one during Mission 1, though  ).Dectilon posted:Sub-Terrania looks like a neat game that's moving a little too fast. Maybe that has to do with the difficulty setting? It seems like it's moving too fast because (I think) the gravity has a greater effect in hard mode than normal. It's hard to convey that in video; it's really a game you have to try out for yourself to get a feel for it. Dectilon posted:If the music is done by the same composer as Adventures of batman and robin (which was awesome) it would be by Jesper Kyd. He works for Ubisoft now I think. YES! That was the game I was thinking of; the name eluded me at the time. Sub-Terrania was actually Jasper's first "full" game as he had been working on demos before that. More information on him is on his Wikipedia page.
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Dec 20, 2012 14:44
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Level 2 - BATTLESHIP Boss timeout - Death Boss timeout - Tetran Boss timeout - Big Core Boss timeout - Big Core Mk.2
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Dec 20, 2012 17:26
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Gradius V is so pretty
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Dec 20, 2012 18:52
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Good videos! Check the banner  (may not happen for every game depending on my level of competence)
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Dec 20, 2012 18:56
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Phiggle posted:Good videos! Check the banner You're a wizard! (Also seconding Gradius V's design; it looks amazing! 
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Dec 20, 2012 18:59
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The Level 2 boss rush in Gradius V gets even greater in higher loops! Are you planning to show anything regarding that in future videos, Dectilon?
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Dec 20, 2012 19:21
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A little bit, but I'm just not good enough at the game yet to do it justice on higher loops.
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Dec 20, 2012 19:36
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You know, I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that Gradius V uses the same graphical engine that Ikuruga does. If nothing else I know they're both made by Treasure. And I'm loving the LP of Graidus V so far but goddamn if I don't want to sperg out about you calling the bosses the wrong thing. (The boss of level 2 is Bigcore Mk 4 and Death first appeared in Salamander and yes I know I have no life shut uuuuuup) Seriously though, I really like your take on the level design and whatnot. Really liking the idea for the whole thread overall really.
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Dec 20, 2012 20:29
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