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Baron Bifford posted:My thought is a super-villain who runs a massive child sex-trafficking ring. We can see Superman beat up somebody whom we have a proper reason to hate and rescue genuine victims of the kind we agonize over in the news all the time. Like...Bizarro?
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Dec 20, 2012 10:08
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McSpanky posted:It's always funny to hear this about a costume that debuted when most forumgoers' grandparents were in high school. Gotta be one of the longest-running failures in history, eh? I can't tell if you're being defensive. That part was obviously a joke as a follow-up to the point about Superman looking like Oregon's new mascot. Which is awesome, because I'm stupid and impressionable, and I love Oregon and all of their uniform combinations.
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Dec 20, 2012 10:11
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Xenomrph posted:It's been a few years since I read 'Watchmen', but I remember reading that line as him not caring about humanity at all and that he was going to go off and create some life he did care about. No, he rediscovers his love of human life because of Laurie and the circumstances of her life and goes off to create some for himself.
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Dec 20, 2012 10:15
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Superman gains the power to shoot rainbow beams that cure cancer. But investigative reporter Lois Lane discovers that the beams are powered by child molestation. The world has a decision to make. 
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Dec 20, 2012 11:09
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Later in that issue, he actually gets jealous of the tiny version of himself and decides to kill it. He sets up an extremely deadly industrial accident in which the tiny Superman dies saving him. In the end Superman gets everything he wants without learning anything, which is the best kind of story.
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Dec 20, 2012 11:41
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I've just watched the trailer, and I've got to say I'm kind of concerned about the dark tone they seem to be going with in this film. I had the same concerns about Superman Returns, where they turned out to be right. Honestly, Superman just isn't a character that's very suited to dark and gloomy stories. He's supposed to be about heroism and ideals and the striving for them. Also the line of Pa Kent answering his question if he should just have let some school children die where he replies with "maybe," that's just not a line Pa Kent should ever say. In summary I'm not sure if having the same people who were working on the hugely successful relaunch on the Barman movie franchise are the right people to have working on a Superman relaunch; the two franchises' themes and mood are just too diametrically opposite. Yes, for a new Superman film to be successful it needs a healthy dose of pathos, but that doesn't mean it should be all steepled in uncertainty and gloom.
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Dec 20, 2012 12:15
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Defiance Industries posted:Later in that issue, he actually gets jealous of the tiny version of himself and decides to kill it. He sets up an extremely deadly industrial accident in which the tiny Superman dies saving him. In the end Superman gets everything he wants without learning anything, which is the best kind of story. Superman really is a dick!
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Dec 20, 2012 15:13
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McSpanky posted:It's always funny to hear this about a costume that debuted when most forumgoers' grandparents were in high school. Gotta be one of the longest-running failures in history, eh? PrBacterio posted:Also the line of Pa Kent answering his question if he should just have let some school children die where he replies with "maybe," that's just not a line Pa Kent should ever say.
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Dec 20, 2012 15:50
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PrBacterio posted:I've just watched the trailer, and I've got to say I'm kind of concerned about the dark tone they seem to be going with in this film. I had the same concerns about Superman Returns, where they turned out to be right. Honestly, Superman just isn't a character that's very suited to dark and gloomy stories. He's supposed to be about heroism and ideals and the striving for them. Also the line of Pa Kent answering his question if he should just have let some school children die where he replies with "maybe," that's just not a line Pa Kent should ever say. In summary I'm not sure if having the same people who were working on the hugely successful relaunch on the Barman movie franchise are the right people to have working on a Superman relaunch; the two franchises' themes and mood are just too diametrically opposite. Yes, for a new Superman film to be successful it needs a healthy dose of pathos, but that doesn't mean it should be all steepled in uncertainty and gloom. The problem with Superman Returns was chaining itself to a 30 year old series of movies while not providing closure for them at all (like eg Rocky Balboa did).
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Dec 20, 2012 15:53
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Superman really is a dick! Reminder that in Superman 2, he went back and beat up a bully that beat him up while powerless for no reason other than petty revenge.
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Dec 20, 2012 15:58
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Darko posted:Reminder that in Superman 2, he went back and beat up a bully that beat him up while powerless for no reason other than petty revenge. I both love and hate that scene. I mean the guy deserved a whuppin' but I really wish it had gone another way. Superman as a bully rubs me the wrong way.
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Dec 20, 2012 16:24
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The original films get that Superman should be a model for humanity, but they really fail to demonstrate what that model is. It's fair because Superman was still making his transition to the ultimate humanist from patriarchal Superman of most of the silver age. Reeve's Superman is well performed character, but it's hard to really get any sense of morality that you can derive from the character. He's petty, selfish, and pretty thoughtless in his godlike actions. It's all projected through him saying that he represents truth and justice as well as Reeve's amazing performance, but there is little actual substance. So much criticism is laid on Superman Returns for creating a cold and inhuman Superman, but it's all pretty in line with the original films. The thing that actually excited me about the movie is the idea of acceptance being front and center as I think that's really what defines Superman. Superman's entire origin is rooted in the hope of two parents that complete strangers from another planet would be willing to raise their son and their faith in the good of others being rewarded. That, I think, is what define's Superman. He has to faith that there is good in people. He'll look at a guy like Lex Luthor and never stop believing that there is redemption. What Mark Waid, author of Birthright, also really understands more than any other author is that Superman is inherently frightening. He could kill every person on the planet within hours. Superman only works as a character if both the audience and the population of Earth are willing to believe that a man given Godlike powers would choose to use them for good. So, I'm excited to see the drama that comes from an Earth that doesn't fully trust him and Pa Kent--his first example of the good of humanity--struggling to accept the rest of the world has the same sense of acceptance. I have issues with Snyder, but I think his trailers have already shown a much more cohesive presentation and understanding of Superman than any other live-action media the character has appeared in.
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Dec 20, 2012 16:40
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Rhyno posted:I both love and hate that scene. I mean the guy deserved a whuppin' but I really wish it had gone another way. Superman as a bully rubs me the wrong way.
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Dec 20, 2012 18:59
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No he needs to face a retarded Bizarro who is running a child sex slave ring and then kill him by punching him to death while crying.
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Dec 20, 2012 19:01
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Baron Bifford posted:Does he not deserve justice for himself? Petty vengeance is not the same as justice.
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Dec 20, 2012 19:02
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casa de mi padre posted:I disagree. Superman's parents aren't perfect, Superman is perfect. Pa Kent isn't sure of the right answer, but Superman is always sure. That scene is key for insight into the advanced moral development of Superman. Is Superman supposed to be perfect? As in Jesus perfect? Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Dec 20, 2012 |
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Dec 20, 2012 19:05
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Superman isn't perfect, but he does adhere to morality at a near saint level. He's a normal human with the powers of a demi-god and an unfailing morality. A personification of the Jesuit idea of "Give me a child until he is 7, and I will give you the man."
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Dec 20, 2012 19:21
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Superman manages to avoid becoming a dick despite his awesome power, which suggests to me he's good a lot of inherent goodness too (just trying raising a kid whom you cannot physically overpower).
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Dec 20, 2012 19:28
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I prefer the idea that perceiving the world the way he does is so explosively humbling that moral clarity is a natural result. Zod as a character sort of undermines that, though.
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Dec 20, 2012 19:35
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Thulsa Doom posted:I prefer the idea that perceiving the world the way he does is so explosively humbling that moral clarity is a natural result. Zod as a character sort of undermines that, though. Zod wouldn't have grown up perceiving the world like Superman does. He would have grown up without super powers as a "normal" guy. Even among Kryptonians Superman would have a different perspective reguardless of the Kents due to always living in the loving radiation of a yellow sun.
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Dec 20, 2012 19:56
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Thulsa Doom posted:I prefer the idea that perceiving the world the way he does is so explosively humbling that moral clarity is a natural result. The key to creating good supercharacters is to give them aspects of humanity on a grand scale. Clark Kent would have grown up to be a "good guy" but since Superman is the purest form of the "good guy" then he doesn't struggle with morality like the rest of us. He knows right from wrong. At least, that's the ideal Superman.
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Dec 20, 2012 22:18
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casa de mi padre posted:Yes. Superman is not only physically evolved compared to us, he's also morally evolved. The conflict comes from the world he lives in. He can't force them to be better, it doesn't work that way. All he can do is lead by example and try to ease the suffering-and to stop others from making things worse. Then there are the issues where he can't easily deal with them... To say Superman is a limited character is to say you have no imagination.
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Dec 20, 2012 22:32
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Burkion posted:The conflict comes from the world he lives in. He can't force them to be better, it doesn't work that way. All he can do is lead by example and try to ease the suffering-and to stop others from making things worse. Then there are the issues where he can't easily deal with them... Thanks for putting it so well. It's become a thing to say that Superman is one-dimensional, Superman is boring, you can't tell an interesting Superman-story. The hell you can't!
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Dec 20, 2012 22:35
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If you can tell an interesting story about Jeff Lebowski, you can probably come up with one about Superman. Stop excusing lovely writers.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:04
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Burkion posted:The conflict comes from the world he lives in. He can't force them to be better, it doesn't work that way. All he can do is lead by example and try to ease the suffering-and to stop others from making things worse. Then there are the issues where he can't easily deal with them... Which is why we need another great Superman film because it's getting annoying listening to people go on about how over powered Superman is and how it's all about who can get Kryptonite first. I'm looking forward to Man of Steel because it's looking like it could be that film just looking at who WB got to work on it.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:07
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Does Clark wear glasses anymore in the comics? Will he be wearing glasses in this movie?
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Dec 20, 2012 23:30
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ghostwritingduck posted:Does Clark wear glasses anymore in the comics? Will he be wearing glasses in this movie? Yes he still wears them in the comics. And there's a scene in the trailer where you see him unfolding a pair of glasses. Edit: Actually it was in the SDCC footage. But there is a picture of Cavill dressed as Clark floating around.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:31
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Burkion posted:The conflict comes from the world he lives in. He can't force them to be better, it doesn't work that way. All he can do is lead by example and try to ease the suffering-and to stop others from making things worse. Netflix recently put up Superman Vs. The Elite, which fashions itself around this idea as a story. For anyone in this thread who hasn't seen it, it's worth a watch.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:42
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Fishylungs posted:Netflix recently put up Superman Vs. The Elite, which fashions itself around this idea as a story. For anyone in this thread who hasn't seen it, it's worth a watch. The DVD is decent but doesn't even come close to the comic it's based off of. Action Comics #775 brought me back to Superman after years away. It's the single best modern Superman story of the past 20 years. All Star Superman is amazing but it's more of a classic tale. Action #775 gave us this      THAT is my Superman, right there.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:53
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^I like the text but hate the art. Guy Gardner as Superman?Burkion posted:The conflict comes from the world he lives in. He can't force them to be better, it doesn't work that way. All he can do is lead by example and try to ease the suffering-and to stop others from making things worse. Then there are the issues where he can't easily deal with them... This is really well-put. The idea that the conflict comes from his position as a Super Man is why it's so easy to make him boring; when you give him someone on his level to fight with, you effectively neuter the character. An impossibly powerful man, given another impossibly powerful man to fight, becomes just a man and then he might as well be any other superhero.
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Dec 21, 2012 00:01
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Tender Bender posted:^I like the text but hate the art. Guy Gardner as Superman? He's supposed to look terrible, he just gt beat down by four incredibly powerful beings.
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Dec 21, 2012 00:07
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Rhyno posted:Yes he still wears them in the comics. And there's a scene in the trailer where you see him unfolding a pair of glasses. Do you have this picture? I'm curious if he pulls off "unassuming" as well as Reeve and Routh did.
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Dec 21, 2012 00:19
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Magic Love Hose posted:Do you have this picture? I'm curious if he pulls off "unassuming" as well as Reeve and Routh did. I don't. All I'm seeing on GIS are him in casual clothes on set without glasses.
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Dec 21, 2012 00:23
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Rhyno posted:He's supposed to look terrible, he just gt beat down by four incredibly powerful beings. Did they give him a stupid haircut too?
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Dec 21, 2012 01:01
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bobkatt013 posted:No he needs to face a retarded Bizarro who is running a child sex slave ring and then kill him by punching him to death while crying. He's crying because Bizarro was only trying to protect the children through Bizarro logic.
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Dec 21, 2012 01:04
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ten dollar bitcoin posted:He's crying because Bizarro was only trying to protect the children through Bizarro logic. On Bizarro Earth the children have sex and get drunk while abusing the adults
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Dec 21, 2012 01:09
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The fact that someone can suggest that a good Superman story would be him fighting a villain who ran a giant child sex slavery ring without irony is why junk like Nemesis exists. It reeks of someone uncomfortable with their own self, as they try and justify their interests by going 'No no, superheroes shouldn't fight apes on jetpacks and giant sentient island that spawn dinosaurs! They should go fight REAL world problems, like the Zeta Cartel, or North Korea, or the Syrian conflict! SEE, I'M NOT A CHILD.' It's not your interests that are the problem.
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Dec 21, 2012 03:24
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casa de mi padre posted:Comics costumes are based on circus outfits and nobody goes to the circus anymore. The costumes don't speak to a modern audience and exist solely for nostalgia purposes and to appease a nerd audience that wants to look at muscular men and women with big tits. The origin of the costume is irrelevant and the vast majority of people aware of Superman (that is, the vast majority of people) probably don't care one way or the other, so all you're left with are the grade-A fuckwits running the comics these days making change for change's sake so they can feel awesome about themselves (unless it's Green Lantern or the Flash, then their Silver Age gods are the one and only true versions NO EXCEPTIONS!!!). At least Snyder made lemonade out of lemons with what was given to him, the comics version is a pair of SS pins away from being Ze Ubermensch.
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Dec 21, 2012 03:46
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I think the only iconic thing that Superman's costume needs is the "S". You can play around with everything else (and they have). I'm a big fan of Superman wearing normal clothes with an "S" on his shirt. He doesn't need anything special to make him Superman. And it's only natural that his followers would wear his symbol too. Better than Jesus, Superman's symbol is hope you can believe in. A miracle you can see for yourself. If Superman really existed, he'd be a god. But he'd also be a man. And if he's just like us... doesn't that mean we can be just like him? The only thing that should separate us from him is the power. We can wear his symbol and do our best to be like him, and maybe someday we will be.
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Dec 21, 2012 04:12
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Whose normal clothes? Does Superman endorse American Apparel t-shirts and Levi's jeans?
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Dec 21, 2012 05:12
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