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I just got a call from my mom saying she was diagnosed with lung cancer. No more of those god drat things for me or my sister. I coincidentally had quit two weeks ago but I have been holding on to a pack and cheating once and a while.
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Dec 10, 2012 06:04
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I'm having a logical dilemma here. Caffeine and Alcohol are both reported to decrease nicotine levels in the body, therefore spurring additional nicotine cravings in smokers. Most people know this already. However, when Googling up ways to get nicotine out of your body, nobody mentions drinking coffee or alcohol as a way to do it. Some sites even assert that coffee and alcohol slow down nicotine removal from the system. So coffee and alcohol only remove nicotine when you don't want it to? I realize coffee and alcohol are a couple of the biggest triggers for people, however I've worked plenty of shifts where I could not smoke and I was able to substitute my desire for a smoke with a coffee or a shot of tequila or two. In fact, a lot of my desire to smoke seems to derive from a vague desire to consume something. Plenty of times I've chain smoked in an attempt to satisfy my body's urge to consume, only to feel more and more empty. Eventually I'll realize that I'm just hungry so I'll eat and feel all better. While there's a lot of advice out there saying don't drink coffee or alcohol when trying to quit, I find that the need to smoke gets compounded by the unfulfilled desire to drink. I know I'll only need half the caffeine after quitting and the effects of alcohol will be more pronounced. I actually enjoy drinking more when I cannot smoke, as it doesn't take as much and its a much more clean experience.
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Dec 14, 2012 21:36
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I'm here in place of my girlfriend, since I'm not the smoker and I really want her to loving quit. I'd really appreciate any input everyone here can give me, preferably if you can verify what I'm thinking is right or wrong. We tried doing a thing where we made a contract to make a quit smoking date (her idea) and that only lasted about two months. I've gotten e-cigarettes for her when I saw a KGBdeals special for them but they haven't arrived yet. In the meantime, she has smoked two since she puffed one again, and now she begged me to let her smoke again. She has also said she wants to quit because I hate it, and that she's being honest with me about her smoking because she does not want to lie to me and secretly sneak, which I've heard happens a lot with smokers. I'm just really skeptical about this in that I've heard people say you have to quit for yourself, not for someone else. Tonight she was pleading with me to let her smoke one, to be understanding, that she'd reeeeally promise she'd quit and that was all she talked about with me. She seemed desperate and also kept guilting me and I'm guessing this is due to her nicotine withdrawals and craving cigarettes like poo poo? After I gave up and told her to smoke until the e-cigarettes arrived, she immediately went for it. Then she started to talk about how she loved me and I feel like this is because of guilt and having finally gotten another fix. Earlier, my girlfriend also brought up the point that I don't understand at all what it's like to be addicted to smoking. The closest I have to that is I'm vegetarian. I used to eat meat and meat-based products pretty much every day, then went cold turkey on it after getting sick one day (at the time I thought it was cause of the barbeque I had the night before). It was something I had thought of doing for a while and I never thought I could do it. I had a friend I liked who encouraged me to not eat meat, so him and the sickness made me decide I'd eat it no more and I've gone eight months now, though I do occasionally crave hot dogs. I also occasionally have dreams where I've eaten meat and I think, well I screwed the pooch now, I'm back to day one, then I wake up.  I immediately thought of that reading some of the posts about people having smoking dreams.Anyway, she dismissed that as being nothing like cigarette addiction because it's a chemical addiction to nicotine, which annoyed me. I know it's not the same, but is there that much lack of a difference? Is it ignorant to compare? Should I be headstrong about her not smoking? I read someone say they withheld sex from their girlfriend until they quit. Would anyone recommend such tactics? I've seen on another forum that you need to be understanding of the smoker and how hard it is that it is to quit, which is what makes me conflicted, because I really just want to tell her, don't loving smoke or you can go be with someone who doesn't mind it. This is probably the biggest issue in our relationship and I don't know if, should it happen, it'd be stupid to have a breakup over smoking. I also noticed people talking about Carr's book, so I found this Korean copy (she wouldn't be able to read the book in the original English) and I'm thinking of grabbing it for her in hopes it'll help her. Also, so I'm not being a complete tool, I'll use this thread to keep people updated on her progress and keep updates. I guess I'll find out whether she really can quit for me as she says she will, or fail. Her initial start date was 2012/10/04 and returned to day one on 2012/10/09 (then three days before the next smoke, then next...) I also want to add, other than health and smell reasons, what I hate about smoking the most. It's when we're going somewhere and I have to sit there like some piece of poo poo dog while I wait for someone I care about to do something I really hate.
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Dec 15, 2012 19:19
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In my experience the having to quit for yourself is true. I quit cold turkey for someone else, I'll admit it was good motivation to fight through the lovely-ness but then a few months later I started full on again. When I finally quit for real I did it for myself, I didn't even tell anyone about it I just did it, used the patch, and it was so easy because >I< wanted to do it that I didn't even finish the full patch cycle. Never looked back. From what you've said it sounds like she isn't sure that she wants to and my professional internet opinion is that even if successful she will start again down the line.
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Dec 15, 2012 19:33
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Themata posted:"My girlfriend won't quit smoking please help." For smokers smoking is like a close friend. When you're stressed they're there for you. When you wake up in the morning and need a quick pick me up they're there for you. When you just need a moment to yourself they're there for you. Now imagine you have a friend, a dear old friend, whom you love very much but isn't good for you. This friend gets you into trouble and is generally a bad influence. Now imagine your girlfriend didn't want you to hang out with that friend anymore and started giving you ultimatums, with holding sex, laying guilt trips on you, and other such poo poo. That's basically what you're doing to her, in her mind. What you need to do is help her understand that her dear friend isn't good for her. But she needs to make the decision to quit herself. If you force the issue to much she may leave you. Because to a smoker you're really not asking her to give up an addiction but telling her she can't hang out with a buddy of her's any more. And if she did that to you with one of your close friends how do you think you would react? *edit* their ~= there oneliquidninja fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 19:40
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oneliquidninja posted:For smokers smoking is like a close friend. When you're stressed they're their for you. When you wake up in the morning and need a quick pick me up they're their for you. When you just need a moment to yourself they're their for you. This is a great way to put it and exactly what it feels like. Also just wanted to clarify I wasn't trying to discourage you, just saying don't get frustrated and mad at her if it doesn't work.
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Dec 15, 2012 19:43
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Like a best friend, huh.. I want to say that cigarettes are not people, but I guess that means I'm missing the point. She clearly knows that cigarettes are bad. I can't imagine there's anybody who would think otherwise. The decision to quit smoking was not all me. I think, as I assume most smokers do, always had the idea of 'I want to quit' in the back of her mind, but she saw how much I hated it and wanted to quit, but that quitting reason was unfortunately(?) more for 'me' than for her. I hate the smoking much more than I thought I would, and she says she hates seeing me upset, but she also gets upset that I'm upset about smoking. It feels like a catch-22, I think is the right term. I guess part of the problem is she went into it, thinking she had the strength to quit for my sake, and I had hoped that she could really quit. I guess love can't conquer nicotine addictions. I think it also hurts how she says she cares about how I get upset about it and that makes her feel guilty, but then immediately gets into the cigarette (today and yesterday). It feels hypocritical and makes me even more upset. When she asks me if I'm upset about smoking, I think of the quote, "Hate the sin, not the sinner", and I feel that way about the smoking. It's the actions I hate, can that work, or does still mean I'm angry at her and I'm just lying to myself?
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Dec 15, 2012 20:32
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Honestly Themata I think you sound like a brat. All you talk about is how much her smoking impacts you and then you get upset that she doesn't care enough about you or your feelings to give up smoking. If you really want to be supportive stop and consider how smoking effects her. Think about the damage she's doing to her health. Think about the prison she's putting herself in by being addicted to a substance. Care more about her and less about yourself and maybe then you can really be supportive and help her quit. Laying a guilt trip on her every time she slips up isn't what she needs. Really it sounds like you're acting like a spoiled brat who's not getting his way. If you don't want to date a smoker, end the relationship. If you really care about her and love her then help her quit because loving smoking is a terrible unhealthy habit that no one should wish upon any of their loved ones.
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Dec 15, 2012 20:40
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I said in the first post the reasons and health is one of them. She asked me why I want her to quit smoking and I told her. Her health is not good and that she is smoking on top of it makes it worse. I've told her about the cancer risks and she told me that the chances of cancer is very low (this was when she was really wanting to smoke). So don't think that I don't think about her health every time she smoked a cigarette or tells me she wanted to smoke it, I thought that was assumed. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have to ask to try and understand. I wanted to see if what I was thinking about her actions were a misunderstanding. I'm sorry if you still think I'm a brat. I'm trying to figure out what to do to work through this together, and she told me to try and understand so I wanted to hear from other smokers and people who quit, because I thought the best way to help quit was to be strong about it but then I started to have doubts. Also, I'm not a man. e: I think I'm just bad at talking about this so please don't think I don't care about her health. I really do. 
Themata fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 21:26
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Alright, I apologize for the brat comment then. But your posts seemed to be primarily concerned about how it was affecting you rather than her. I don't know what else to tell you if you've never smoked before. Trying to see it from her perspective as best you can and being as supportive as you can is about all you really can do. She has to be the one to quit. Her begging you to smoke strikes me as the wrong thing. She knows you don't approve. Don't give your approval. Let her know that you don't approve but don't give an ultimatum either. If she's going to smoke she's going to smoke. Tell her it's up to her, that she knows how you feel about it. And be encouraging. When she's doing good tell her she's doing good. Especially if she thinks she should smoke. Something like, "Honey you're doing really good. Are you sure you want to have a smoke?". She may choose to anyway but don't get discouraged. Anyway, I don't know what else to say. My mom and brother both smoke still. I quit a few months ago. I would love for them to both quit for their health but all I can really do is let them know what worked for me (the patch and a lot of self examination) and hope they find their own path.
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Dec 15, 2012 21:39
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Themata posted:I want to say that cigarettes are not people, but I guess that means I'm missing the point. You are, kind of, but I agree with what you're saying and it should show how addiction can mess with someone's head. For example that time I quit cold turkey, after a couple days I was thinking to myself man I can't believe I'm actually doing it, this is great, you know what I should smoke a cigarette to celebrate. And my initial reaction to that thought was not gently caress NO YOU IDIOT, it was seriously, "yeah that would be nice, I deserve it." Like my own brain was trying to find ways to trick me. Just trying to phrase the friend thing a little different here, after quitting an addiction, even when the physical part of it is done and over, there can be a period of legit depression where you actually miss being addicted to something. Not the thing itself, just something, because it's just such a great feeling to always have something, every hour or two, that no matter what will feel absolutely loving amazing. A sane person can quickly go, "but wait a second obviously that reasoning is flawed and comes with a huge price" but when you're missing your friend you don't think like that. That feeling can last a while. Fuckstick McNally fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 22:00
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You are right about that, though. I will have to be more careful what I say. As for her begging me, that's what really got me conflicted. At first, I did not give approval, and she said she would not. It was recently though after she relapsed that she started begging me to approve of her smoking, but when I told her I didn't approve and asked her to stay strong, that's when she started with telling me I needed to be more understanding and being irritated (I would guess because of the withdrawal obviously). When I would tell her to do what she wants to, I did as you said, and said to do what she wants and that she knows I feel, but then she said she didn't want to smoke, before again, begging me to smoke. I guess she wanted me to say 'yes' more clearly. I've thought several times if I should start smoking and then quitting to try and really understand (it sounds stupid, but it crossed my mind many times). I want to thank you for your posting because I think it helped me think more clearly about how to understand her. I just keep fearing that one of these days, I'm going to hear that she has cancer and that if only she had quit earlier, it could have been prevented and I don't want to think about having to face that situation. I also read about the benefits of quitting smoking and I want her to feel that difference and feel how good it is to quit smoking. I guess you are right though. The only thing I can do is encourage her to quit and hope. Another thing, she mentioned that she has been having hair loss due to stress and not smoking to relieve that stress, but I read and only heard of hair lose from smoking. It's when she tells me about things like this I could really wish to know how she is feeling from the withdrawal. e: Fuckstick McNally, I didn't see your post until now, but that helps me understand even more clearly. I can't actually know, but I feel like if I think about that when she smokes again (I guess I will have to accept that), I can be more understanding. 
Themata fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 22:07
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Themata posted:Another thing, she mentioned that she has been having hair loss due to stress and not smoking to relieve that stress, but I read and only heard of hair lose from smoking. It's when she tells me about things like this I could really wish to know how she is feeling from the withdrawal. The withdrawals can be managed though and they're really not the hardest part. The hardest part is the mental side of it. It's a habit and habits are hard to break. They're part of how we define ourselves. Look at it this way. She identifies herself as a smoker. So she has to learn to let go of that and change her point of view about herself. For withdrawals I highly recommend the patch. You get a small steady stream of nicotine all day long. You don't have an e-cig reinforcing the physical component of the addiction or gum either. For the physical side get some carrots or other healthy snacks. But that's just me. I guess everyone is different. I got off the point I was going to make so I should get to that. The whole stress management thing is kinda true but it's also a mental game she's playing with herself. Nicotine is a stimulant and while the act of smoking (the whole two minutes out of life thing) can in itself relieve stress the chemical reaction will increase it. Doing some yoga or just some simple stretches will help her more with stress. That said most smokers are very Type A (is that a term people still use?) meaning they have trouble relaxing. They have trouble taking a moment for themselves (I still do). Having a smoke is an excuse for them to stop doing everything for a minute because it's hard for them to give themselves permission to relax. Learning to replace smoking with healthier means of stress relief and relaxation can really help. Maybe you guys could take up yoga together or some other means of relaxing. If she can learn to stretch and take some deep breaths rather than having a cigarette maybe she'll be able to find the stress relief she's looking for without smoking.
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Dec 15, 2012 22:33
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Themata posted:You are right about that, though. I will have to be more careful what I say. That's really the bottom line. Her brain will actually lie to her to get nicotine. Your best best is to be patient, understanding and then stay out of it. She'll turn on whatever's the big quit motivator when she craves (because her brain will lie to her), and she'll rage against whatever's "making" her quit. Those reasons should be rock solid, ie "every time I smoke I lose money and shorten my life", and not "you", because that'll just cause stress between you. Then remember that her success or failure at quitting doesn't have anything to do with you or how much she loves you. Her brain is messing with her. Her body is messing with her. It's very hard to be rational about quitting smoking and so the best thing for you to do is take a few steps back and let her take the reins instead of making it some shared thing. It's not, she's right that you absolutely don't understand the feelings she's going through, and you can be supportive without spearheading the process. I can only imagine that being at the center of it and all that poo poo about how she doesn't love you enough or whatever only makes it 1000x more stressful for both of you. Do not be the gate guardian of her smokes, she isn't a little kid who needs to be kept out of the candy, she's an adult who needs to give up a poisonous habit. When she says "please please please can I smoke," Just say "I am not in charge of your smoking habit or your quit attempt." Then it's up to her and on her. You can totally be encouraging and tell her she's doing well and you know, if she says she's going to smoke ask her if she's sure she wants to reset her quit clock to zero or remind her about the health or money benefits or whatever. I mean you're not really doing anything wrong and I guess Im coming off kind of harsh, I just can't imagine how this isn't making your relationship just so, so stressful and awful. My boyfriend really, really wanted me to quit and it was a nice motivator but I think if he'd tried to orchestrate it for me it just would have all gone to poo poo. In other news I'm something like three months quit and I've stopped counting and I can drink again without craving. I did have my first smoking dream in weeks and weeks a couple days ago and felt absolutely godawful until I woke up. I didn't even feel good as I was doing it in-dream, it was just guilt and failure all the way down. When will I be free of those? I really don't want more, ever.
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Dec 15, 2012 23:06
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Currently, she's been sucking on the Halls lozenges, but she's unfortunately also using alcohol to fight the need to smoke (which is another big health concern, because she has stomach problems and alcohol makes it worse). She drinks it normally anyway, but I will talk to her about trying to find healthier things to do together (she's a bit less agreeable about drinking less). I looked it up and she does have a lot of the Type A traits. At least recently, she's been relaxed, so I guess the need to smoke is out of habit. She did mention part of the craving was the oral fixation. I did order E-cigarettes, but they haven't arrived yet because the company (SmokeAnywhere) bungled the shipping address even after I called them to confirm they got the right one. 
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Dec 15, 2012 23:10
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Themata posted:Currently, she's been sucking on the Halls lozenges, but she's unfortunately also using alcohol to fight the need to smoke (which is another big health concern, because she has stomach problems and alcohol makes it worse). She drinks it normally anyway, but I will talk to her about trying to find healthier things to do together (she's a bit less agreeable about drinking less). I looked it up and she does have a lot of the Type A traits. At least recently, she's been relaxed, so I guess the need to smoke is out of habit. She did mention part of the craving was the oral fixation. Depending on how you guys feel about other drugs (and I'm mentioning this because of the alcohol thing) low doses of psilocybin mushrooms have shown a lot of promise in helping with conditioning/deconditioning. If you guys aren't experienced with such substances and are against illegal drugs I wouldn't suggest this as a means (considering there's other, legal means available) but if you've experimented with psychedelics in the past and aren't concerned with the legal implications of consumption it's something to consider. Also want to say that I think InEscape's advice is good and there's a lot of wisdom in (her?) post. *edit* And the e-cig does work for some people and it's certainly healthier than smoking. I wasn't meaning to bash it earlier. It just didn't feel like the right solution for me (felt to much like trading one thing for another). *edit2* vvv haha.. yeah, bad idea than  Good luck to you both  vvv
oneliquidninja fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 23:21
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e:^^^^^^ I'm a total bore, so no drugs and I rarely consume alcohol, but most of our time is spent in Korea, where even marijuana is enough to get you a serious prison sentence, so definitely none of that  InEscape posted:That's really the bottom line. Her brain will actually lie to her to get nicotine. Your best best is to be patient, understanding and then stay out of it. She'll turn on whatever's the big quit motivator when she craves (because her brain will lie to her), and she'll rage against whatever's "making" her quit. Those reasons should be rock solid, ie "every time I smoke I lose money and shorten my life", and not "you", because that'll just cause stress between you. The second paragraph helps me make more sense of what happened the night before. It's why I posted feeling like she was manipulating me, and I wanted to know if this was actually because of the nicotine withdrawal. That just sounds awful. Originally, she wanted me to sort of be the 'guardian' but I'm clearly terrible at it (and as you're saying, a bad idea), so from the posts I've gotten from the three of you, I'm going to have to just step back and support and start again, although not necessarily from square one.Also, congratulations on getting that far. It may not be much, but I can at least understand that feeling of progress, if only from having abstained from meat eating (as well as the dreams that I ate steak and failed my diet).e2: I want to give a big thanks, especially to oneliquidninja. I feel like I've been able to finally get my head clear about this, and I'll be sure to keep posting about how things go. Themata fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 23:21
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Themata posted:e2: I want to give a big thanks, especially to oneliquidninja. I feel like I've been able to finally get my head clear about this, and I'll be sure to keep posting about how things go. And I'm really sorry for calling you a brat I over reacted to you controlling the smokes and didn't understand everything that was going on between you two. Your initial posts came off a bit like you only saw how this was affecting you and maybe when you posted it was because you were starting to feel frustrated which probably colored your posting (which I can understand).Do keep us updated
oneliquidninja fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 23:38
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So today i think I decided to quit. Been smoking for ~2 years (started at the tender age of 24) and I think I read one article too many on the poo poo that's inside cigarettes this morning, while smoking. I'm really curious to see if I can do this.
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Dec 16, 2012 10:00
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I've been really lovely about smoking when I drink - basically, if my friends who smoke are out with me, I end up bumming like three a night when we're out. Thankfully, that's only like once or twice a week, and I still haven't bought myself any cigarettes since like early September. So, in other words, things are going...decent. Still can't get to that mythical "100% quit" mark but poo poo, I was on a pack a day before. This is still a success, so far.
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Dec 16, 2012 10:50
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I started when I was 16-17, I'm 27, so around 10 years of maybe 10-12 a day, more if I had drinks/weed. I quit on June 10th at 9:00pm. If you want to quit, you need to remove yourself from those areas of your life that will include cigarettes. How long? I don't know, until you feel you can be at those places without smoking? I was about a week into quitting, sitting around a campfire with a handful of people smoking cigarettes, I had to bail out. I still have dreams, although not nearly as much as like 2-3 months after I had quit. Dream I have a cig in each hand...wake up feeling like an rear end in a top hat, like "man, did I really just start smoking again last night...err?" I switched over to Trident/Giants sunflower seeds And I can take massive bong hits now.Anyway, good luck everyone quitting, planning on quitting this upcoming year.
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Dec 16, 2012 16:37
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oneliquidninja posted:And I'm really sorry for calling you a brat It's fine.  Anything that helps me reevaluate myself right? I feel that we're better now than before, so no harm was done!The e-cigarettes have arrived, and so far my girlfriend is enjoying it. She said she had a whiff of an ashtray after trying it out and felt like gagging, and she likes the non-smell factor. Of course, I only heard e-cigarettes are supposedly worse than regular after they were purchased. In any case, she says it makes her not want to smoke regular cigarettes, so whether this will lead to a continued addiction for nicotine or if she'll eventually stop altogether, I don't know, but I'm just going to do my best to support her and it'll be much easier without the regular cigarettes being smoked now. As for between my previous post and the arrival, I told her that I wasn't going to try to control her smoking anymore, that ultimately she would have to decide to quit herself and she immediately went off to smoke the pack. I guess she was in a period of relapse. In any case, that felt difficult for me to deal with at the time but now with the e-cigarettes, it feels like I shouldn't have even cared about those few days, but it helped me confirm what others have said in the thread personally.
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Dec 19, 2012 14:36
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Themata posted:I said in the first post the reasons and health is one of them. She asked me why I want her to quit smoking and I told her. Her health is not good and that she is smoking on top of it makes it worse. I've told her about the cancer risks and she told me that the chances of cancer is very low (this was when she was really wanting to smoke). So don't think that I don't think about her health every time she smoked a cigarette or tells me she wanted to smoke it, I thought that was assumed. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have to ask to try and understand. I wanted to see if what I was thinking about her actions were a misunderstanding. She's making stupid justifications for not smoking. Her risk of cancer is LOW? What the gently caress? If she refuses to quit, and will keep hanging on to such moronic ideas about how smoking obviously won't affect *her* health, even though it does for pretty much every other smoker on Earth (which she will counter with some dumb anecdote about random family member.) The only person who can get her to quit smoking is herself. You can only do your best to not enable it. Make her smoke outside, out of the car, don't buy any for her at any point, don't let her smoke around you. Tell her that her smoking makes you worried about your future together. I am a recovered smoker who was hooked on cigs for nearly 20 years and I have been smoke free since August 2011, and I know she can quit, because I did, and I never thought I would. I was convinced cigarettes would kill me. Any reason she gives you is an excuse to enable her addiction.
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Dec 20, 2012 14:00
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Hogarth Hughes posted:She's making stupid justifications for not smoking. Her risk of cancer is LOW? What the gently caress? Oh, yeah, this is a good point. I was talking to my best friend's mom who is in her late 50's and struggling to quit. She keeps talking about how her mom is in her 90's and smoked and is healthy and all that and you have to remember: this isn't a gamble. It isn't a roll of the dice for lung cancer or heart attack. Even if you avoid the big ones, your health is absolutely worse every time you smoke no matter what, and luck has nothing to do with that. She can never be "that person" whose health isn't affected by smoking because that person doesn't exist.
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Dec 20, 2012 19:46
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Themata posted:Of course, I only heard e-cigarettes are supposedly worse than regular after they were purchased. Wait, what? Sorry if this has been covered, but I've read the last ten or so pages of the thread and I can't see any discussion of how they're worse other than the fact that you're still using nicotine. I'm worried now, I've been using the e-cigs exclusively for about a week now after eight years of smoking (precipitated by a health scare) and been feeling pretty good about it, why are they supposedly worse for you?
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Dec 20, 2012 20:16
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I've only heard that supposedly, there are more chemicals in there and it's not FDA regulated, so it might actually be worse. I did searching but I have nothing to prove this claim absolute either way, it's just what I heard which is why I got worried myself. Personally, I can't see how they can be worse but that's some of the claims I heard. As a small update, she wanted to smoke the e-cigarette today but upon opening the electronic pack, she decided otherwise. Apparently it was because of the smell of the box - it does smell faintly of actual cigarettes, and she said that smell turned her off. My dad who is an ex-smoker (cold turkey for my mother, as they both claim) said that cigarette smells make him want to gag (and he's pretty strong willed), so the e-cigarette makers may have inadvertently made their product more of a smoking deterrent than they intended.Side note, I heard the e-cigarettes in Korea are bulky and don't look like actual cigarettes. I can't decide if that's better or worse than looking more like one when used in an attempt to help quit smoking.
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Dec 20, 2012 21:09
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Themata posted:I've only heard that supposedly, there are more chemicals in there and it's not FDA regulated, so it might actually be worse. I did searching but I have nothing to prove this claim absolute either way, it's just what I heard which is why I got worried myself. Personally, I can't see how they can be worse but that's some of the claims I heard. According to an article I found online, a cigarette is a 100, nicotine products are a 1 and e-cigs are a 2 on the unhealthy scale so I wouldn't be too worried. I did my research before I bought one and the only thing that could hurt you are the silica wicks. Tiny silica shards could get into your lungs and hurt them. But all you gotta do is re wick it with a cotton wick and then it's (almost) completely harmless. Of course it's not regulated so there could be health hazards but I'm very certain that it's way less harmful than smoking actual cigarettes. I say puff away.
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Dec 20, 2012 22:37
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Themata posted:I've only heard that supposedly, there are more chemicals in there and it's not FDA regulated, so it might actually be worse. I did searching but I have nothing to prove this claim absolute either way, it's just what I heard which is why I got worried myself. Personally, I can't see how they can be worse but that's some of the claims I heard. People say a lot of dumb poo poo that they make up. The only ingredients in ecig juice are propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, nicotine and food grade flavoring. Most retail stores I've been to will mix the juice right in front of you.
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Dec 20, 2012 22:55
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pastorrich posted:According to an article I found online, a cigarette is a 100, nicotine products are a 1 and e-cigs are a 2 on the unhealthy scale so I wouldn't be too worried. I did my research before I bought one and the only thing that could hurt you are the silica wicks. Wow. What is the scale out of? Do you have the link to the article by chance? Fallom posted:People say a lot of dumb poo poo that they make up. The only ingredients in ecig juice are propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, nicotine and food grade flavoring. That sounds pretty cool and reassuring! Propylene glycol though? I did a bit of Googling on that just now, and it looks like there's a mix of 'it's in medicines too and FDA approved' and 'it's dangerous because we don't really know what's in them'. Again, I'm inclined to believe that they're much safer than regular cigarettes, but I wonder if any of these naysayers are maybe people from the tobacco companies worried about sales?
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Dec 20, 2012 23:25
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Themata posted:I've only heard that supposedly, there are more chemicals in there and it's not FDA regulated, so it might actually be worse. I did searching but I have nothing to prove this claim absolute either way, it's just what I heard which is why I got worried myself. Personally, I can't see how they can be worse but that's some of the claims I heard. First, its not true Ecigs have any of the health issues as do regular cigarettes. Two, there's tons of Ecigs that don't look like cigarettes. In fact, I think it's highly advisable to use one that doesn't. The one I use (Joytech eGo-C) is more cigar sized and smoking it is nothing like holding a cigarette. Ecigs accomplish two important thing when trying to quit: 1. Keep the nicotine, and 2. Transform the habit. I found the habitual addiction of cigarettes far more powerful than the physical addiction. And so Ecigs were a lifesaver.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:47
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^^^ Also, the main reason why people buy e-cigs that don't look like regular cigarettes is because the small batteries lack the power to give you a good draw. They also run out faster (both in juice and battery life). Larger devices have become more popular because they give you a strong hit and last longer before the battery dies. larger tanks give you good amount of juice so you don't have to refill all the time. The big cigar-like sticks might be bulky but they will last you all day and give you a bigger draw than even a regular cigarette. I bummed a smoke recently, just to see the difference and it felt like I wasn't get enough because I was used to the device I normally use.Themata posted:Wow. What is the scale out of? Do you have the link to the article by chance? Just a disclaimer: e-cigs won't help you quit since they still have nicotine in them. But it is easier to control how much by stepping down the concentration. Of course, then you might smoke more to get the same high. Quitting cold turkey is still the best way to go but if you want to be a healthier smoker, e-cigs are better. Just keep in mind, nicotine still effects cardiovascular system. So your lungs might be safer but your heart is still at risk. As far as not knowing what's in them; it's the same issue with pot or any other unregulated product. When you buy unregulated items, there's always a chance there might be other chemicals mixed in. For example, flavor extracts to give the juice a different taste and smell. I don't know what chemicals they use for that. Unfortunately, e-cigs are so new, there's no health data to go off of. But I think most of the scare is just because the FDA has to look at unknowns as a possible problem, not that they've actually found anything that's harmful. But just to restate what I said earlier, cold turkey is really the way go. inkblottime fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Dec 21, 2012 |
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Dec 20, 2012 23:55
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Reanimatador posted:Wait, what? Sorry if this has been covered, but I've read the last ten or so pages of the thread and I can't see any discussion of how they're worse other than the fact that you're still using nicotine. Its not worse for you. The argument against them is that you become more of an addict. Smoking cigarettes limits us addicts by damaging our throat, lungs, and wallets. By switching to an e-cig you can dose up all the nicotine your addicted brain desires. From first hand experience the health benefits are phenomenal. However statistically they don't do much in the way of getting people off of nicotine. Almost all e-cig users revert back to cigarettes eventually. I'm guessing the general thought process on is: "I want to dose up but I've been smoking so often and for so long that its really painful" "This e-cig is great! All the drugs none of the pain!" "Now my chest and throat are repaired and I can enjoy smoking cigarettes again."
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Dec 20, 2012 23:56
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inkblottime posted:Just a disclaimer: e-cigs won't help you quit since they still have nicotine in them. But it is easier to control how much by stepping down the concentration. Of course, then you might smoke more to get the same high. Quitting cold turkey is still the best way to go but if you want to be a healthier smoker, e-cigs are better. Just keep in mind, nicotine still effects cardiovascular system. So your lungs might be safer but your heart is still at risk. Well stated, but I disagree personally with some of your points. E-cigs will help you quit. I am a testimonial, and I know of 3 others who preach the same. Two of these guys were hardcore, 30 year smokers. Sure, anecdotal evidence, but it counts to me, since it's personal. Since e-cigs are essentially a nicotine replacement system, they should be considered besides nicotine patches and gum. Not as some other form of smoking. You are correct that quitting cold turkey is the best. However, that can prove difficult to many, and I'd argue both the personal and societal best is served by people quitting via e-cig if they've tried and failed going cold turkey before. Better to quit actual cigarettes than not, regardless of the presence of nicotine. Again, personally, I tried quitting cold turkey maybe 2 dozen times over 15 years. Most times I'd go 3-5 days, than for some stupid bullshit reason, give up. I went a couple of months a couple of times, but again, stupidly decided that since I was on vacation, I could smoke. Stupid. But the point is I tried many times, and failed. I really did want to quit, but then, not really. Now, 7 months into an e-cig, I find myself amazed how the very idea of cigarettes has disappeared from my mind, and I still hang around smokers. When I see them smoke now I'm sort of aghast inside, like it's a shocking, stupidly dangerous behavior akin to someone shooting heroin or smoking meth. Just loving stupid, and dirty, and nasty, and life destroying. Am I hooked on e-cigs? Probably. But I find some days I barely touch them, barely think of them. Other times - times where I would have smoked heavily before (driving) - I hit the e-cig pretty hard. It's enjoyable - all these different flavors. I intend to quit them eventually, but currently have no plans to do so. I want to be sure I am done with actual cigarettes, so I'm going to give it at least a year. I never want to smoke cigarettes again, and for me, the e-cig was the way I've begun to accomplish this goal. And for that I am profoundly grateful for e-cigs.
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Dec 21, 2012 00:09
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redshirt posted:Well stated, but I disagree personally with some of your points. E-cigs will help you quit. I am a testimonial, and I know of 3 others who preach the same. Two of these guys were hardcore, 30 year smokers. Sure, anecdotal evidence, but it counts to me, since it's personal. Since e-cigs are essentially a nicotine replacement system, they should be considered besides nicotine patches and gum. Not as some other form of smoking. I totally get that and after failing to quit smoking several times, e-cig is where I went as well. And I have been enjoying a smoke free, albeit vap-filled, life for over two years. Just to remind myself of what I'm not missing, I'll occasionally take a drag of a cigarette and end up hating it. It smells bad, leaves a bad aftertaste, and my lungs hurt. But I also think that's why I don't recommend using e-cigs to quit. They feel safer and, I might add, are quite enjoyable. I can go for a while without taking a hit, but picking it back up is too easy because I love how it tastes and don't feel ashamed for damaging my lungs. If people have used them to quit, kudos. But just keep in mind they are easy to stay hooked on because they lull you into a sense of (possibly) false security. If you're set on using them to quit, then you do have to hold yourself to stepping down gradually (just like the patch, or nic-gum). inkblottime fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Dec 21, 2012 |
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Dec 21, 2012 00:28
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Today marks 31 days smoke free for me. Not even a single puff. I started when I was 12, am 27 now. I smoked about a pack a day since I was 16 or so. I've tried and failed to quit using just about every method under the sun in the last couple of years. This time I just went cold turkey. The first 3 days were rough, really really rough. Vicious cravings, irritable, couldn't sleep. My entire day felt like it had been turned upside down. By the time day 4 rolled around, the cravings had gotten a bit weaker. Last night I had my first real test since then, drank 7-8 beers with some friends. I always smoked more when drinking and it has been my downfall in the past. Made it the whole night without even having a craving though! Think I might finally have given them the boot for good this time!
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Dec 21, 2012 00:35
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inkblottime posted:I totally get that and after failing to quit smoking several times, e-cig is where I went as well. And I have been enjoying a smoke free, albeit vap-filled, life for over two years. Just to remind myself of what I'm not missing, I'll occasionally take a drag of a cigarette and end up hating it. It smells bad, leaves a bad aftertaste, and my lungs hurt. Well said. But not the same experience for me. I have no interest whatsoever in taking a drag of a cigarette anymore. The concept of smoking is gone from my mind, it seems, and that's what I find amazing. Obviously, everyone's mileage varies, but as a means of quitting, e-cigs are awesome. What's the actual damage of nicotine in e-cig delivery form by the way? That is, what are the health complications of being addicted to nicotine?
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Dec 21, 2012 00:37
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redshirt posted:Well said. But not the same experience for me. I have no interest whatsoever in taking a drag of a cigarette anymore. The concept of smoking is gone from my mind, it seems, and that's what I find amazing. Obviously, everyone's mileage varies, but as a means of quitting, e-cigs are awesome. I believe it is the same as with cigarettes or chewing tobacco, or any other product with nicotine; cardiovascular. It thins the blood, increases heart rate, blood pressure. But I think if you check in with your doctor, you can monitor that kind of thing and know when it's time to quit (ie high blood-pressure, heart problems, etc). Fortunately, I have good blood pressure and my heart is healthy. But I do have regular checkups. Edit: And just in case I wasn't clear, I haven't picked up smoking, except for the few times I've had a drag off a friends (who visits) and even then, it isn't because I wanted it. More of like reminding myself that smoking sucks. As you have said, my desire for smoking an actual cigarette is completely gone. I see it as about as fun as licking an ashtray. And for that, e-cigs are truly amazing in that regard. inkblottime fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Dec 21, 2012 |
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Dec 21, 2012 00:48
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letgomyAgo posted:Think I might finally have given them the boot for good this time! You have. Any craving you get now will be easy to shrug off. Well done!
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Dec 21, 2012 00:49
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About the E-cig, I may give mine another go instead of doing another cold turkey quit tomorrow. I'm all  about the idea that cigarettes have additional addicting chemicals in them. I can always tell a stark difference in satisfaction when switching to a natural brand. That extra craving only lasts a couple days though. I could E-cig through the weekend and go cold turkey on Monday.I have a lot of animosity towards nicotine. Some studies suggest nicotine drops out of your system so fast that withdrawals can start as early as 10 minutes after a smoke. Even at a pack a day, smokers are still spending half of their life in mild to moderate withdrawals.
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Dec 21, 2012 02:32
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 17:01 |
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My girlfriend and I had a huge fight and we were not getting along for a while. Yesterday she bought cigarettes again. Prior to that, she had been on the e-cigarette and she had been really snappy and grumpy. There were other factors contributing to this, but I wonder, has anyone found e-cigarettes still left you feeling snappy and irritated, as if you had been off cigarettes completely? I know the nicotine in it is there, one of my friends who tried it looked like she was about to choke and said the nicotine of the e-cigarette was very strong, giving her throat a burning feeling. However, I was just wondering if it was possible the e-cigarette was somehow missing something that would make her go buy regular ones (other than that she's an extremely impatient/impulsive person) to fulfill whatever need she must have been missing. She said she smoked regular ones twice, gagging her way through them before giving the rest to some old man, so it's not even that she enjoys all the smoke and smell. It was also after she had smoked them she came apologising to me like crazy about fighting, which is why I wonder if her elevation in mood has anything to do with getting her nicotine fix through regular cigarettes. I asked her if that was a possibility but she doesn't think so. Thoughts?
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Dec 23, 2012 21:06
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