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Knuc If U Buck posted:Fallout 3 isn't canon. Canon is whatever bethesda says it is.
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Dec 23, 2012 04:33
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Timeless Appeal posted:The bleakness of the Capital Wasteland just never really seems consistent or real. As much more civilized as the Mojave seems, it's also seems a lot more dangerous. True, but it's more dangerous because of governments and organization. The Capital Wasteland is safer in some ways because it's a blasted hellhole with nothing to fight over. I really got into the "magnificent desolation" of the Capital Wasteland, and the Mojave just didn't inspire the same feeling. It was already a desert and the bombs didn't hit it anyway; just not as awe-inspiring as discovering that the White House is a radioactive crater, abandoned and forgotten. I'm not denying that NV was a better game in nearly every way, but it didn't have the atmosphere that I fell in love with in 3. Also NV ran at 3 frames a second and didn't like to play dialogue on my computer. 
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Dec 23, 2012 06:07
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Byzantine posted:True, but it's more dangerous because of governments and organization. And cazadores.
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Dec 23, 2012 09:49
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Lord Lambeth posted:Canon is whatever bethesda says it is. Why's that? edit: The only thing canon from Fallout 3 is the Survival Guide, which could probably be put down to Obsidian just reusing art assets, so it's debatable.
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Dec 23, 2012 11:58
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Why's that? ...because they own Fallout? Yeah sure it's not your personal canon but down that road lies madness.
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Dec 23, 2012 12:05
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MrL_JaKiri posted:...because they own Fallout? Yeah sure it's not your personal canon but down that road lies madness. Yeah, I'm not really a huge fan of the whoever owns a franchise gets to decide what's canon. It's too black and white, and I'm sure if we all sat back and thought about it logically, and with science, we'd agree that Fallout 3's story, characters, setting and factions add nothing to the Fallout world that isn't harmful to the established canon. I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but that's my feelings.
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Dec 23, 2012 12:11
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Check out the mod thread, some crazy genius figured out how to implement proper, physics-enabled vehicles in FNV using projectile forces. 
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Dec 23, 2012 12:30
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Yeah, I'm not really a huge fan of the whoever owns a franchise gets to decide what's canon. It's too black and white, and I'm sure if we all sat back and thought about it logically, and with science, we'd agree that Fallout 3's story, characters, setting and factions add nothing to the Fallout world that isn't harmful to the established canon. I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but that's my feelings. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of calling it "canon"? Like, the single solitary reason to use that word, ever, is to distinguish fan fiction from official works. That's even its function in its original religious context. You can not like something and still have it be canon as balls, just ask a Star Wars fan.
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Dec 23, 2012 17:44
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Yeah, I'm not really a huge fan of the whoever owns a franchise gets to decide what's canon. It's too black and white, and I'm sure if we all sat back and thought about it logically, and with science, we'd agree that Fallout 3's story, characters, setting and factions add nothing to the Fallout world that isn't harmful to the established canon. I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but that's my feelings. Your defintion of canon is quite literally "things I like or don't like" man. I'm not a fan of Jar Jar but I'm not gonna pretend he never happened.
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Dec 23, 2012 17:48
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Besides that, there's also the fact that the game fits into the timeline so pretending it didn't happen is like getting amnesia and never being able to remember one big block of your life just because you don't feel like trying to recall it. Some pretty important in-universe things happened in Fallout 3.
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Dec 23, 2012 18:14
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CJacobs posted:Besides that, there's also the fact that the game fits into the timeline so pretending it didn't happen is like getting amnesia and never being able to remember one big block of your life just because you don't feel like trying to recall it. Some pretty important in-universe things happened in Fallout 3. Some of them even get explicitly brought up in New Vegas. Veronica talks about the DC schism, the divide version of ED-E has messages from Autumn, the aforementioned survival guide, etc.
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Dec 23, 2012 20:22
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Post-apoc movie derail: This past week I caught a couple great ones on Netflix, Stake Land and Hell, that I'd recommend. The first one is basically a zombie film (but with violent, cannibalistic vampires) with the "we are on the road traveling to a mythical Better Place" motif, and a lot of religious themes. Expected something pretty campy given that premise, but it's got a fairly serious tone and it's pretty impressive in some ways. Hell is a German film ("Hell" means "bright") with the same road motif but no zombies. Four young people travel a sun-scorched landscape in a Volvo listening to Nena while trying to find water. They get ambushed about halfway through and have to fight their way out for the rest of the film. It's pretty bleak and menacing.
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Dec 23, 2012 20:28
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HitTheTargets posted:Doesn't that defeat the purpose of calling it "canon"? Like, the single solitary reason to use that word, ever, is to distinguish fan fiction from official works. That's even its function in its original religious context. You can not like something and still have it be canon as balls, just ask a Star Wars fan. I'm against fan fiction being included as canon, but there should be room for official works being removed from canon when they resemble fan fiction. There's precedent in the FO series for this wrt to Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel. Fallout 3 should be treated the same. Also can someone point out the important in-universe things that happened in Fallout 3?
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Dec 23, 2012 22:24
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Also can someone point out the important in-universe things that happened in Fallout 3? The Enclave has been thoroughly destroyed in the DC area. Potentially the brotherhood as well, but for some reason I think that - just like the FEV-water ending will be ignored. The GECK was suddenly a super awesome magic device in Fallout 3. This magic device could have been used to create some much needed farmland, but was instead destroyed because Dad is a terrible engineer. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 22:40
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Speaking of Fallout 3, I think it's pretty sad that when Fallout 4 is released it's going to be a Bethesda developed title. They're really never going to be able to approach what Black Isle or Obsidian did with the series. There's always been this sense of exploring the remnants of society instead of, well, the remnants of dungeons, which seems to be Bethesda's strong suit. Also, they're never going to hire decent writers, ever.
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Dec 23, 2012 22:42
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Also can someone point out the important in-universe things that happened in Fallout 3? I still think you're a little hung up on deciding whether stuff "counts", but there are some neat aesthetic updates I like in FO3. I'm not wild about the raygun gothic-by-way-of-steampunk look of the new Plasma guns, but the laser weapons pair amazingly well with the existing power armor. And power fists! They're baller as hell now. I think the buildable weapons were a good idea. All of the robots they added are good fits, especially the Protectrons. And they updated the Pip-Boy as a more modern game interface. Is any of this story relevant? Not really. poo poo's cool though.
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Dec 23, 2012 23:59
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The quest I Put a Spell on You is really starting to piss me off. No matter what I do I can't complete it. If I use the wait function until midnight I never see anyone come to the tower by 1 am when everyone says they see lights. If I wait by Captain Curtis to see if he leaves he never does. Every once in a while Captain Curtis will magically appear outside the door to the tower and start walking back despite not being in there when I checked a minute previous. I don't think any quest in any game has frustrated me this much. Especially since I'm playing on hardcore and have to go get food and water between waiting. gently caress this quest. edit: and while I agree that New Vegas has better characters and writing than FO3 it is much MUCH buggier. I prefer the Capital Wasteland setting over the Mojave but I would definitely prefer New Vegas over FO3 if quests weren't bugging out on me all the time. I've never had to reload as often as I do in New Vegas. Mustang fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 00:02
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Knuc If U Buck posted:I'm against fan fiction being included as canon, but there should be room for official works being removed from canon when they resemble fan fiction. There's precedent in the FO series for this wrt to Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel. Fallout 3 should be treated the same. Talking deathclaws, ghosts, and the protagonist of Fallout 2 causing the events of Fallout via time travel: canon Remnants of the BoS fighting remnants of the Enclave on the east coast: TOTAL BULLSHIT gently caress YOU BETHESDA Raygereio posted:The Enclave has been thoroughly destroyed in the DC area. Potentially the brotherhood as well, but for some reason I think that - just like the FEV-water ending will be ignored. Well, yeah. Fallout 2 assumes you didn't go with the "join the Master's army" ending in the first game too. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 00:41
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Raygereio posted:The GECK was suddenly a super awesome magic device in Fallout 3. This magic device could have been used to create some much needed farmland, but was instead destroyed because Dad is a terrible engineer. James was terrible at everything in Fallout 3. His only redeeming feature was being voiced by Liam Neeson. I'm hoping that if they pick a canon ending for New Vegas in fallout 4, it'll be a House one, but Fallout canon is weird, like how the good ending for the Followers is impossible to get in Fallout 1, but New Vegas shows that it was the canon ending anyway. Fallout 2 added some cool stuff to to the lore, but the actual plot was terrible. Considering that the Capital wasteland is about 200 years behind the NCR in terms of culture and civilization, it doesn't really affect the Core Region at all though.
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Dec 24, 2012 00:44
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I'm doing Beyond the Beef and I locked myself out of making the fake meal. I reset the quest and now the quest is bugged really bad. Is there anyway I can reset the quest safely or unlock the fake meal option? My furthest save back was in the middle of the quest. Edit: Fixed! I used the resurrection command to resurrect Chauncey and selected the conversation option that triggers the fake meal option. RickDaedalus fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 01:24
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RickDaedalus posted:I'm doing Beyond the Beef and I locked myself out of making the fake meal. I reset the quest and now the quest is bugged really bad. Is there anyway I can reset the quest safely or unlock the fake meal option? My furthest save back was in the middle of the quest. Your best bet for anything related to quest related bugs is to hit up The Vault and search for the quest in question and see what other solutions people have come up with. It's usually pretty specific about which console commands will put which quest back on the right track and it's definitely worth bookmarking in general if you love to nerd out about FallOut stuff.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:35
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Raygereio posted:The GECK was suddenly a super awesome magic device in Fallout 3. This magic device could have been used to create some much needed farmland, but was instead destroyed because Dad is a terrible engineer. The GECK was always a magic MacGuffin. It was a suitcase-sized device which, in FO2, established Vault City--a sprawling modern settlement by the standards of the first games. Its only limitation seemed to be that it didn't supply endless power (which is what ghoul-run power plants are for). Wolfsheim posted:Talking deathclaws, ghosts, and the protagonist of Fallout 2 causing the events of Fallout via time travel: canon People forget just how much humor was involved in the first two games. Some was more subtle stuff or references to other works, but some were ridiculously zany stuff that wasn't really organic to the universe, and not at all meant to be taken seriously by the player. (E.g., Hitchhiker's-esque whale/plant carcasses, a cafe with NPCs that talk about the prior game, aforementioned time travel resulting in the breaking of the Vault 13 water chip, etc.)
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Dec 24, 2012 01:37
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Not to mention the crashed Star Trek shuttle. Those were more "Wild Wasteland" things. I don't think Johnny Five Aces is actually a canon character, you know?
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Dec 24, 2012 01:40
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Chronojam posted:I don't think Johnny Five Aces is actually a canon character, you know? I will angrily mail Bethesda executives nonstop until I die of exhaustion and hunger if Johnny Fiveaces isn't canon.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:51
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I think it'd be cool if a lot of the non-essential but still neat gear got randomly placed each time a fresh save is started. Things like the permanent +skill books or the snow globes / bobble heads or even the unique weapons and armor would be cool to have randomly spawn, and it'd make exploring the entire wasteland an interesting endeavor. As it is now, it's hard for me to play though FO3/NV without first making a beeline for all of the skill books and whatnot because I am a terrible min/maxer and I just feel like I'm not playing right if I don't collect all those free bonuses. The down side to this is that I rarely have a reason to visit locations that I know don't really contain any loot of significance.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:53
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Derek Dominoe posted:The GECK was always a magic MacGuffin. It was a suitcase-sized device which, in FO2, established Vault City--a sprawling modern settlement by the standards of the first games. Its only limitation seemed to be that it didn't supply endless power (which is what ghoul-run power plants are for). The GECKs in Fallout 2 were basically glorified "Babby's first farm" kits where they included basic seeds, information on how to farm and purify water. Basic skills that a post-apocalyptic society would need to get agriculture going again. Vault 8's success was that it had a GECK (so it didn't have to mess around with rediscovering concepts like crop-rotation farming, which is something Shady Sands did have to figure out). Plus, they had a giant vault that they could siphon off power from. I was always surprised though at their tiny population. The game gave a headcount of 103 Vault City citizens, and that population was supposed to be strictly enforced through regulated births. Since vaults were supposed to have at max 1000 people, and Vault City was supposed to have been around for a while, what happened to all that extra population? Was Vault City regulating itself to extinction? Was their standard of living only maintainable for a fraction of their initial population? NCR's population at the same time was estimated to be 600,000. Vault City's whole ability to resist any encroachment seemed highly unlikely.
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Dec 24, 2012 02:06
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I decided to play NV again, so my hook this time is max strength and max luck and being completely neutral until a fraction crosses me and I completely wipe them out with a machete. The prison is currently filled with corpses after one too many Powder Gangers told me to be afraid of them.
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Dec 24, 2012 02:12
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My second playthrough was max Strength max Luck, although I went straight for the Legion. It was a fun playthrough, but I had to suck down a LOT of chems when it came to dealing with deathclaws.
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Dec 24, 2012 02:23
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Line Feed posted:My second playthrough was max Strength max Luck, although I went straight for the Legion. It was a fun playthrough, but I had to suck down a LOT of chems when it came to dealing with deathclaws. A drugged to the gills punchy-person is obviously the best way to go Legion. I hope you also tanked your INT score?
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Dec 24, 2012 02:30
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Wolfsheim posted:Talking deathclaws, ghosts, and the protagonist of Fallout 2 causing the events of Fallout via time travel: canon It's not about what's "bullshit" (Don't ever remember using that term or getting angry at anyone, just trying to have a discussion, not get mad), it's about what is and isn't coherent within the established canon. Fallout 3 is a Fallout themed fan fiction set far away from the integral goings on in the fallout-verse. If Bethesda really wanted it to be True Canon, they would have set it on the West Coast, and given it to a competent developer (they did and it's called New Vegas). Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I will angrily mail Bethesda executives nonstop until I die of exhaustion and hunger if Johnny Fiveaces isn't canon. Johnny 5 Aces and other Wild Wasteland features are canon.
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Dec 24, 2012 02:38
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Yeah, stuff created by the people that own Fallout is not fan-fiction, no matter how much you want it to be.
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Dec 24, 2012 02:46
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Yip Yips posted:Yeah, stuff created by the people that own Fallout is not fan-fiction, no matter how much you want it to be. So if Disney were to release a Star Wars movie next year that was just a 30 second clip of Luke waking up on Tatooine and saying "It was all a dream!" You would accept that as canon? I don't understand the logic in that.
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Dec 24, 2012 02:49
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Knuc If U Buck posted:It's not about what's "bullshit" (Don't ever remember using that term or getting angry at anyone, just trying to have a discussion, not get mad), it's about what is and isn't coherent within the established canon. Fallout 3 is a Fallout themed fan fiction set far away from the integral goings on in the fallout-verse. If Bethesda really wanted it to be True Canon, they would have set it on the West Coast, and given it to a competent developer (they did and it's called New Vegas). Fallout canon is really, really loose with a lot of things due to the player choice thing. Wild Wasteland has to be turned on manually, and the game itself describes it as "silly" - it's non-canon. By your logic, the "take the dam with Elijah" ending to Dead Money is probably canon, just because of who developed it, even though logically that can't be the case. Just because Fallout 3 had a bad story doesn't make it non-canon, it did try really hard to be part of the Fallout world, and pretty much succeeded. It had some design issues, but it's canon. Deal with it.  If you want to talk about fallout that ISN'T canon, try Fallout: Tatics, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout: Extreme and most of Van Buren. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 03:03
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I wish I could bleach Brotherhood of Steel from my mind. F3 had a bunch of problems but compared to the utter garbage that's BoS, it's infinitely better.
VaultAggie fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 03:05
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Arbitrary Coin posted:A drugged to the gills punchy-person is obviously the best way to go Legion. I hope you also tanked your INT score? Actually, no. Her INT was fairly decent.
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Dec 24, 2012 03:08
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Knuc If U Buck posted:So if Disney were to release a Star Wars movie next year that was just a 30 second clip of Luke waking up on Tatooine and saying "It was all a dream!" You would accept that as canon? I don't understand the logic in that. If the creators said so, then yes...? It would be stupid, but I'm not sure why a displeased fan's opinion would suddenly start trumping the creators of a series or universe. Sometimes in an ongoing fictional universe there's grey area in what's canon and what's not--and sometimes really stupid decisions get forgotten/retconned/downplayed, but making that claim about Fallout 3 as a whole--an objectively major, legitimate contribution to and continuation of the series--is pretty weird magical thinking. OldMemes posted:Just because Fallout 3 had a bad story doesn't make it non-canon, it did try really hard to be part of the Fallout world, and pretty much succeeded. It had some design issues, but it's canon. Deal with it.
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Dec 24, 2012 03:14
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Knuc If U Buck posted:It's not about what's "bullshit" (Don't ever remember using that term or getting angry at anyone, just trying to have a discussion, not get mad), it's about what is and isn't coherent within the established canon. Fallout 3 is a Fallout themed fan fiction set far away from the integral goings on in the fallout-verse. If Bethesda really wanted it to be True Canon, they would have set it on the West Coast, and given it to a competent developer (they did and it's called New Vegas).  Let's get rope kid in here to debate with Knuc! I'm sure he'll have nothing but positive things to say!
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Dec 24, 2012 03:53
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Saint Sputnik posted:Post-apoc movie derail: This past week I caught a couple great ones on Netflix, Stake Land and Hell, that I'd recommend. The first one is basically a zombie film (but with violent, cannibalistic vampires) with the "we are on the road traveling to a mythical Better Place" motif, and a lot of religious themes. Expected something pretty campy given that premise, but it's got a fairly serious tone and it's pretty impressive in some ways. Just watched Stake Land on your recommendation. It was surprisingly, pleasantly not terrible. Very heavy The Road vibes. Watching Hell now LOOK OUT HE'S RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!!!
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Dec 24, 2012 04:04
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Elmo Oxygen posted:And cazadores. Which came from Big MT, an untouched-by-the-bombs research facility. ...for that matter, was anything hit by the War in New Vegas? Vegas/the Dam were saved by Mr House (also the best choice), and I don't recall anything else taking nukes on the chin.
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Dec 24, 2012 04:07
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Wow, didn't realise that so many people hear had such a black and white opinion of the definition of canon. Good to get a discussion going about these kinds of things, but I'll definitely have to agree to disagree at this point.rotinaj posted:
Rope Kid's a hell of a nice guy so I'm sure this is correct.
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Dec 24, 2012 04:08
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