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Gobblecoque posted:
Same thing has been happening to me, I started out as France and got excommunicated fairly early while I was the one being attacked. Since then the entire continent has been in consistent war with me, managed to wipe out the Holy Empire, Portugal, England, Spain but Milan have been in a thorn on my side forever. Now with the Moors creeping up on the Iberian peninsula and Milan's endless army, I feel like my time is nearly over. Also why is demanding an attack from an ally to someone they consider neutral very demanding? I know it is something to ask but when our alliance has been for a bazillion turns it's surprising they won't even consider it.
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Dec 25, 2012 04:52
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Koramei posted:FoTS is the exception; it's at the start of more modernized warfare, where everything changes. Well, yeah, but what's more interesting for the player? "Let's have us a grand, glorious clash of arms in which my mighty army demonstrates its worth and valor and proves that their hiring was worthwhile!" "Let's either sit around waiting for ages or else send all my best troops into a horrible attritional meatgrinder of a push." True, in actual history, the patient generals who cost-efficiently spent their troops taking cities by waiting them out were much more effective than the impatient ones who went on and on about glorious battle and valor. But the battles are generally much more INTERESTING - there's a reason why there's tons of analysis about great battles and such and very few indeed of great sieges. Being that Total War is a game and not one that's ever been particularly strict about following in history's footsteps, why not encourage the bits that people find interesting and discourage the bits that aren't?
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Dec 25, 2012 05:34
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Electric Pope posted:The 3 versions of that seem a bit confusing, or maybe I'm just dumb, but anyway which one would you suggest using? I use the most basic one, but am considering the one where they bring back the ole' ETW/NTW style Cannister. The one with the Unbalanced gently caress Off unmounted Ship Artillery isn't really needed as you'll never come across a AI controlled Star Fort. For most people just pick up the basic one. It really is well done, the AI has no problem making and using the new older guns and infantry and the Mortars are actually useful for defending your smaller weaker forts. Just remember to install the sound fix mod linked by the Mod owner in the Workshop page after it or any mod that adds new units to the tables. Otherwise your sounds are all jumbled up.
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Dec 25, 2012 09:51
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Tomn posted:Well, yeah, but what's more interesting for the player?
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Dec 25, 2012 10:15
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It should surrender in the wake of a veteran heavy tech armies lead by a bad rear end, especially if the fort is a terrible tier 1 or 2 or they having nothing but militia garrisoned there.
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Dec 25, 2012 10:18
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Sieges are a silly idea anyway. In the vast majority of important sieges in history (in the period from Shogun to Medieval - ie. before serious logistics) the objective gets taken by storm because the besieged force has more supplies stocked than the besiegers so it's impossible to starve them out. Being able to just wait out a city/castle and take it with no consequences is a core problem with the game right now - sieges need to end with the attackers being forced to fight their way in, not the defenders being forced to fight their way out (as is the status quo).
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Dec 25, 2012 10:19
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I'm trying out DarthMod for Empire and holy crap, his whole Star Wars shtick is really subdued in Shogun2 compared to this. He even changed to menu music to the Imperial March. Isn't that... I don' know, a copyright violation? 
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Dec 25, 2012 12:52
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:Isn't that... I don' know, a copyright violation? I've been playing Invasio Barbarorvm 2: Conqvestvs Britanniae, and it's got half an Enya album in there.
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Dec 25, 2012 14:48
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:I'm trying out DarthMod for Empire and holy crap, his whole Star Wars shtick is really subdued in Shogun2 compared to this. He even changed to menu music to the Imperial March. Isn't that... I don' know, a copyright violation? It's actually worse in his Napoleon mod where he even changes the advisers to be princess lea and Darth Vader.
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Dec 25, 2012 19:11
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Alchenar posted:Sieges are a silly idea anyway. In the vast majority of important sieges in history (in the period from Shogun to Medieval - ie. before serious logistics) the objective gets taken by storm because the besieged force has more supplies stocked than the besiegers so it's impossible to starve them out. So make attrition a bigger deal for the besieging army so sitting outside the walls for a couple of years just isn't an option? That seems like it would be a good idea.
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Dec 25, 2012 19:17
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a pipe smoking dog posted:So make attrition a bigger deal for the besieging army so sitting outside the walls for a couple of years just isn't an option? That seems like it would be a good idea. The solution needs to be more elegant than 'your army starts to disappear' because that's really irritating and grognardy (and I love grognard games, but that's not what Total War is). I was thinking maybe introducing Supply Wagons as a unit that can keep a number other units in a certain radius fed etc for a certain number of turns, after which the units out of supply are force moved back to the nearest city. That gets rid of the irritating-but-ignorable-and-slightly-unpredictable attrition effect and replaces it with an easy mechanism to understand - you have x turns in the campaigning season before your army goes home and your opponents get a chance to rebuild. That means that sometimes you'll have a real reason to storm that city or your war plan will fall apart.
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Dec 25, 2012 19:28
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Alchenar posted:Sieges are a silly idea anyway. In the vast majority of important sieges in history (in the period from Shogun to Medieval - ie. before serious logistics) the objective gets taken by storm because the besieged force has more supplies stocked than the besiegers so it's impossible to starve them out. I'm not sure what in the world led you to believe this but you're completely wrong. Sieges in those times frequently ended without any fighting on the walls or in the city/castle, and it would have been an extremely rare situation for a besieging army to run out of supplies before the besieged. Really the only time that besieged cities/castles were able to hold out longer than their attackers was when they were coastal locations and the attacker had the ground forces to contain them but not the naval ability to blockade them. There is good reason for Creative Assembly to make sieges more likely to end in battle from a gameplay (and fun) perspective, but not from a historical perspective. I'm honestly perplexed at how you arrived at your above conclusion. It's absurd.
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Dec 25, 2012 19:39
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Chomp8645 posted:I'm not sure what in the world led you to believe this but you're completely wrong. Sieges in those times frequently ended without any fighting on the walls or in the city/castle, and it would have been an extremely rare situation for a besieging army to run out of supplies before the besieged. Really the only time that besieged cities/castles were able to hold out longer than their attackers was when they were coastal locations and the attacker had the ground forces to contain them but not the naval ability to blockade them. Remind me, didn't sieges usually end in negotiations of some kind anyways? During the medieval era, at least.
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Dec 26, 2012 00:09
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Man Whore posted:It's actually worse in his Napoleon mod where he even changes the advisers to be princess lea and Darth Vader.
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Dec 26, 2012 00:17
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:I'm trying out DarthMod for Empire and holy crap, his whole Star Wars shtick is really subdued in Shogun2 compared to this. He even changed to menu music to the Imperial March. Isn't that... I don' know, a copyright violation? I've played his mod but maybe I'm missing something, all the StarWars BS is at the title screen right? I haven't noticed it in game so it doesn't really bother me. It's the title of the mod.
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Dec 26, 2012 00:31
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ClemenSalad posted:I've played his mod but maybe I'm missing something, all the StarWars BS is at the title screen right? I haven't noticed it in game so it doesn't really bother me. It's the title of the mod. Yes,In Empire it's all title screen poo poo. I know he changes the advisers in napoleon but I don't know if he added any references in the game play other than that.
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Dec 26, 2012 03:49
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ClemenSalad posted:I've played his mod but maybe I'm missing something, all the StarWars BS is at the title screen right? I haven't noticed it in game so it doesn't really bother me. It's the title of the mod. I'm pretty sure he had the March as battle music, too. The 8.1 release has a launcher with various options though, maybe I missed the one that lets you turn that poo poo off. That being said from what little I saw his rebalancing wasn't that great either. I had 30000 cash at the start of the game while the build costs remained the same because our Modding Overlord loves big old battles. Also units seemed to be even faster than in the base game for some reason.
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Dec 26, 2012 04:46
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Welp, guess using an old install and then updating Shogun 2 doesn't want to start? Guess I'll have to download it all over again, which kinda sucks.
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Dec 26, 2012 08:57
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Sober posted:Welp, guess using an old install and then updating Shogun 2 doesn't want to start? Guess I'll have to download it all over again, which kinda sucks. Verify the integrity of the game cache, it's been totally overhauled from the older install to be significantly smaller, so it's probably going to be a bit buggy the first time you update it. If not, at least the new install is around half the size.
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Dec 26, 2012 09:18
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Yeah, verified it a couple of times but it just crashed like 2-3 minutes out of the splash screen. Last time I had it installed was like January, and the download is only 15 gigs so yeah, shouldn't be too bad.
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Dec 26, 2012 09:22
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Speaking of DarthMod for Napoleon, what's the best non-DarthMod for Napoleon? I've tried that Lordz one but it seems crap for singleplayer (since it turns out to be a multiplayer-focused mod) and my last go-to mod, Napoleon Total Combat, hasn't been updated for the last patch and is now broken.
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Dec 26, 2012 18:58
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MadJackMcJack posted:Speaking of DarthMod for Napoleon, what's the best non-DarthMod for Napoleon? I've tried that Lordz one but it seems crap for singleplayer (since it turns out to be a multiplayer-focused mod) and my last go-to mod, Napoleon Total Combat, hasn't been updated for the last patch and is now broken. I like La Montee De Empire, or whatever. LME mod. Its singleplayer focused, and turns battles into these gigantic smokey slug-fests, its great. It also adds about 300,000 units.
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Dec 26, 2012 20:12
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Tomn posted:Remind me, didn't sieges usually end in negotiations of some kind anyways? During the medieval era, at least. It was not uncommon for a city or castle to prefer a peaceable surrender to being taken, looted, and burned. Often the besieged would prevail upon their monarch for assistance, and they would simultaneously make it understood to the besiegers that if a relieving force didn't arrive by such-and-such a date, they would surrender. That left the outcome up to their king. The besiegers would agree and wait, because they could always just withdraw if a fresh army approached and nobody really enjoyed cracking open a castle by sheer force if they didn't have to. Sieges also involved tactics that the Total War games don't touch on, like excavating under walls in order to collapse them, with of course counter-excavation from the besieged. And constant negotiation and intimidation tactics that went on every day. A siege was rarely a single battle, but usually a little war all its own. Anyone interested in siege tactics of the time should consider picking up 1453 by Roger Crowley, which details the siege of Constantinople.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:28
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liveoctopus posted:Sieges also involved tactics that the Total War games don't touch on, like excavating under walls in order to collapse them, with of course counter-excavation from the besieged. And constant negotiation and intimidation tactics that went on every day. A siege was rarely a single battle, but usually a little war all its own. While I don't see this happening in Rome 2, I could see a multi-battle siege becoming a thing in future Total War games; with the multiple capture point thing being introduced now I see no reason they couldn't split that up into a few battles you do over the course of several turns on a single city. Maybe between battles you get to say where you send your sappers or counter-sappers among other actions. Removing the whole 'blitz the center' part of sieges opens up a whole load of possibilities.
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Dec 27, 2012 04:43
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So regarding my S2TW crashes, after googling a bit trying to look for a solution and only getting stupid boilerplate tech support responses I stumble upon THIS MOTHERFUCKING REVELATION. I wish I could give that man a thousand goddamn hugs, because that immediately fixed it. It was hilarious because I did a fresh reinstall/download and it had the same problem with the extra files.
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Dec 27, 2012 05:41
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liveoctopus posted:It was not uncommon for a city or castle to prefer a peaceable surrender to being taken, looted, and burned. Often the besieged would prevail upon their monarch for assistance, and they would simultaneously make it understood to the besiegers that if a relieving force didn't arrive by such-and-such a date, they would surrender. That left the outcome up to their king. The besiegers would agree and wait, because they could always just withdraw if a fresh army approached and nobody really enjoyed cracking open a castle by sheer force if they didn't have to. It may have been highly simplified but medieval 2 did have sappers, though I forget if this was in Rome.
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Dec 27, 2012 10:12
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They were also in RTW.
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Dec 27, 2012 10:18
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Any recommended mods for Shogun 2 that don't radically change anything but improve gameplay and don't included any pop culture references?
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Dec 27, 2012 13:46
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Rabhadh posted:Any recommended mods for Shogun 2 that don't radically change anything but improve gameplay and don't included any pop culture references? The Radious mods are pretty good. They add a crapload of new units and balance out a lot of things. You'll need to activate only the mod for whichever campaign you're going to use (i.e. if playing Fall of the Samurai, only activate the FOTS mod) but the mod manager makes it easy. You're probably better off using the Steam Workshop to install since it's easy to use.
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Dec 27, 2012 14:38
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I second those suggestions Rab, and hit me up for my personal FOTS mod suggestions too.
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Dec 27, 2012 16:46
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Radious sound mod is also pretty good and there's a "proper language" pack around somewhere that makes the japanese units actually speak japanese which is also pretty nice.
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Dec 27, 2012 16:52
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Lets review the Fall Of The Samurai DLC Clans! Saga Clan Review! Okay, so the Saga clan was one of the original three that came in the pre-orders for FOTS (the retail boxed one infact!) and in real life during the Bosin War was a minor player that made money selling Imported Korean pottery and china to Japan and the West. Lets start with what makes them good. They are Tech boomers, with a embarassing hard on for the West and its Victorian tech. This means they already have half of a tech researched when you pick it in the tree which makes climbing and getting what you want before the other clans and modernisation much quicker for you. They also get a neat bonus of a Parrot gun with their starting minor army, a Copper hulled Frigate in their Navy and trade deaks with the British, French and Americans. They even get a bonus British Foreign Veteran which will help saving money building up the first invasion stack. Sadly, all they have is a tiny bit of the far Western Island crowded with mostly Imperial Clans. Your going to have to be aggressive while going for Tsushima (who are already at war with you) for the gold and use your Ishishin agent to make sure your neighbors don't over expand too soon. One of the minor clans north of you is your vassal too. Your token General is also a shifty unloyal bastard with one Loyalty point so you'll need an Agent to keep an eye on him or his men when going deep into a campaign in enemy territory. Don't forget your going to need a strong Navy you may need to split to cover those precious trade routes to the west. Appearince wise with their army, they aren't that unique looking and middle of the road with a rather plain looking British inspired uniform. The colour? Cheeto Dark Orange with brown. That will either amuse or disgust you depending on what rocks your boat. A good clan to play if you get a good start, though with Normal difficulties things might get a little too easy for you mid game. Good fun if your going to try a Hardcore game and work towards a Republic. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 20:20
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IMO the most important task in any new game is to tech for foreign ports and to conquer the nearest smithy province where you will build a gunsmith, a training camp turned into whatever camp that boosts accuracy and the foreign port of your choice, this will allow you to build the best units with the highest bonuses. I'm always playing with Radious mods so this may not be applicable to vanilla.
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Dec 27, 2012 21:20
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SeanBeansShako posted:Lets review the Fall Of The Samurai DLC Clans! Since you seem to be an expert, please educate me on the proper use of a Portuguese Terco. From the description, I figured they were a combination of matchlocks and spears, capable of firing volleys until the enemy closed to melee, then giving a good account of themselves. So I stuck them in the center of my formation...and they got pasted. With a melee defense of two, I guess they just can't handle a prolonged fight. So I decided to entrust them with the right flank along with my unit of Long Yari Ashigaru, figuring they could ward off cavalry and keep the flank strong. But a unit of Yari Cavalry destroyed them. I guess they don't get a bonus against cavalry, despite the spears. Right now, they sit in my gunline next to my Heavy Gunners. Seems like kind of a waste.
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Dec 27, 2012 23:30
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Vengarr posted:Since you seem to be an expert, please educate me on the proper use of a Portuguese Terco. They sound like skirmishers that should really be attacking the sides and rear of an engaged unit to me. Try using them as support and bringing them in to help a unit engaded in melee and attack the enemy sides and rear them pull them back after 30 seconds to safety.
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Dec 28, 2012 02:23
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Vengarr posted:Since you seem to be an expert, please educate me on the proper use of a Portuguese Terco. You sure those are Tercos? I've been playing around with them and for me they have a melee defence of 15! They've been holding up well in melee for me so far, and I've basically been playing my Otomo army like an Empire/Napoleon army. They typically can't hold up too long against dedicated melee troops but they hold long enough for other Tercos to flank and fire into the sides and rear, and then the fleeing begins. Mind you, I am using Radious mod, so maybe he changed stuff around. The description is of the historical Terco, which was a combined arms unit. Sadly, it's misleading in-game since the unit has no pikes at all. Again, Radious has a new unit of pike Tercos that can be used alongside the matchlock Tercos. As well as sabre Tercos and mounted ranged-cav Tercos. Yup, you can have an almost fully European army.
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Dec 28, 2012 12:36
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MadJackMcJack posted:Mind you, I am using Radious mod, so maybe he changed stuff around. This is probably true; Radious intentionally changed stats so that melees last much longer than they do in vanilla. It's a general trend amongst modders for TW games, actually. Battles can become a grind, but it does make combat more of a spectacle.
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Dec 28, 2012 13:07
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toasterwarrior posted:This is probably true; Radious intentionally changed stats so that melees last much longer than they do in vanilla. It's a general trend amongst modders for TW games, actually. Battles can become a grind, but it does make combat more of a spectacle. Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I prefer Napoleon to Shogun 2. Due to the relative rarity of melees and non-explodey artillery, battles tend to be a more gradual affair with both side's forces being slowly whittled down. In vanilla Shogun 2 there's almost always the moment where the bulk of both forces clash in melee and from then on the dice are cast and the battle will be decided by a rout within a minute or so. That gives them a pretty cinematic feel, but personally I really like the more "realistic" approach in Napoleon that can give you a feel for the scale of the battles in that era and how they could sometimes last for hours or even days.
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Dec 28, 2012 13:59
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Mass routing in NTW and ETW, especially with bayonet charges was pretty realistic when morale collapsed. I just loving hate the fact with both games you have to be a genocidal monster and slaughter an army to the last man. I wish they kept the capturing prisoner mechanic from MTW and altered it slightly for the era. This and the lack of life boats or visual wreckage with sailors a few minutes after you sink a ship really makes you feel like a needlessly bloody bastard for the era.
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Dec 28, 2012 14:02
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I'm fine with mass routing if only they'd they rally more often. Sure my first charge failed, but let me set up for a second.
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Dec 28, 2012 14:06
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