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Whats also great about my rewatch this time is that I am getting to show my wife some of these episodes for the first time. She had watched some here and there with me, but nothing really from the start to the end. She had the best reaction to McNulty in this episode. When he steals his neighbors paper. Her: Did he just steal a paper? Me: Ya Her: But he is a cop... Me: Ya Her: Wow, he is an rear end in a top hat. Me: Ya, you pretty much summed it up.
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Dec 21, 2012 18:27
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Speaking of which, McNulty's shithole apartment always cracks me up.
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Dec 21, 2012 19:53
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watt par posted:Another police thing, this time specifically about Baltimore: One thing I'm always curious about and forgot to ask last night: does the Mayor's Office really have to approve every promotion from Lieutenant and up, as seems to be shown in season 3?
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Dec 21, 2012 19:58
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Mr Lance Murdock posted:Whats also great about my rewatch this time is that I am getting to show my wife some of these episodes for the first time. Wow, I forgot he stole the paper that episode. That makes his newspaper theft throughout the series very intentional and very funny.
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Dec 21, 2012 23:50
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escape artist posted:Wow, I think you're right... I never noticed that. I can think of 3 times at least Prez fires his gun (two in this episode). Not a single time any other cop does, though. Bunk and the mouse has to count for something.
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Dec 22, 2012 21:09
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cletepurcel posted:Also it always sends chills down my spine when I hear Daniels dress down the three of them. Really the guy could be just as intimidating as Rawls when he wanted to be. "To be continued." Hands down the best scary Daniels scene. He's the kind of guy that you're actually relieved when he starts chewing you out because then you at least know where his head's at. His seething anger in the elevator made McNulty about six inches tall in that scene. The threat with Rawls is public humiliation- he has no qualms about punking the living poo poo out of people in front of everybody, because he's a loving bully. One tidbit I just noticed tonight that's interesting: Rawls is, to my recollection, the only white cop to drop an N-bomb in the series. Yet when we get our little glimpse of his alternative lifestyle, it's not just a gay bar but a predominantly black gay bar. I have no idea if Simon was doing one of his deep metaphorical things there or not.
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Dec 23, 2012 01:26
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cletepurcel posted:One thing I'm always curious about and forgot to ask last night: does the Mayor's Office really have to approve every promotion from Lieutenant and up, as seems to be shown in season 3? Presumably the Commissioner brings him names (that the Deputy Ops brought the Commissioner) and he rubber stamps them, but yeah, I get the impression that they were on a "serve at the mayor's pleasure" scheme. escape artist posted:Wow, I think you're right... I never noticed that. I can think of 3 times at least Prez fires his gun (two in this episode). Not a single time any other cop does, though. Prez's shooting incident in the towers is bananas, by the way. He, Herc, and Carver are being pelted by brickbats and such, and there are even a few shots fired, and then Prez returns fire with his Glock but... he can't see poo poo. He doesn't know where the fire is coming from, because he's buzzed and it's the middle of the night, so basically he's firing random shots at an apartment building. Provided he didn't hit anybody, he can clear it in the report by claiming that he was firing at visible targets, but realistically it was appallingly irresponsible and another indication that he's totally unsuitable for street work. Also the promise of this thread, and the thread itself, caused me to bang on through the episode at a rate of like one or two a day (it's The Wire, what do you want?) so I'm into the start of S3 by now. I just hit S3E3, wherein Omar and co. assault a Barksdale stash and meet much difficulty. If I'm remembering this correctly, that's one of three or four actual shootouts in the entire series, and it finishes up with friendly fire (Dante carelessly shoots Tosha in the face). This is not much of a series for glorifying violence.
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Dec 23, 2012 04:24
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EvanSchenck posted:Prez's shooting incident in the towers is bananas, by the way. He, Herc, and Carver are being pelted by brickbats and such, and there are even a few shots fired, and then Prez returns fire with his Glock but... he can't see poo poo. He doesn't know where the fire is coming from, because he's buzzed and it's the middle of the night, so basically he's firing random shots at an apartment building. Provided he didn't hit anybody, he can clear it in the report by claiming that he was firing at visible targets, but realistically it was appallingly irresponsible and another indication that he's totally unsuitable for street work. He's also the only character to kill a cop 
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Dec 23, 2012 04:48
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Randomly Specific posted:One tidbit I just noticed tonight that's interesting: Rawls is, to my recollection, the only white cop to drop an N-bomb in the series. Yet when we get our little glimpse of his alternative lifestyle, it's not just a gay bar but a predominantly black gay bar.
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Dec 23, 2012 05:37
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My favorite Rawls scenes are between him and McNulty after Kima gets shot. He's a bully and an rear end in a top hat but he's got principles. Also one of the best "The gently caress did I do" lines of the series.
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Dec 23, 2012 13:32
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Gangringo posted:My favorite Rawls scenes are between him and McNulty after Kima gets shot. He's a bully and an rear end in a top hat but he's got principles. I don't know. I thought on my first viewing that was a sign that he had some kind of principles, but he spends the rest of the series burning everybody who comes near him. I can't think of any other principled moments he had, and he would've burned Carcetti at the end if he hadn't been given the carrot and stick treatment. Landsman is the one you see showing more principle in the series, what with his attempt at extracting McNulty from the poo poo he got himself into in S1, his handling of Bubbles, etc. He's still going to watch out for number one, but catch him at the right moment and he'll do right by you. However, the Kima shooting really did bring out the best in everyone. Rawls actually shows real leadership rather than Machiavellian assholery, Burrell sits with Kima's girlfriend after the commissioner waves the situation off, Landsman is serious and on the trail, Daniels does everything he needs to do, Lester rallies the troops. McNulty gets drunk. Okay, maybe it didn't bring out the best in everyone. The other Rawls bit I like from that ep was the 'gently caress your money' scene with the DEA agent.
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Dec 24, 2012 00:59
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escape artist posted:Season 1, Episode 2:
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Dec 24, 2012 03:25
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Randomly Specific posted:I don't know. I thought on my first viewing that was a sign that he had some kind of principles, but he spends the rest of the series burning everybody who comes near him. I can't think of any other principled moments he had, and he would've burned Carcetti at the end if he hadn't been given the carrot and stick treatment. Simon mentions this on the commentary for s1e1, and I wish I had taken notes. I can transcribe it when I get back home if you guys want, but basically, he says that it was important that the higher ups be human - they aren't evil, just out for number 1, and the first time they truly show this was Kima's shooting.
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Dec 24, 2012 05:19
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Mooktastical posted:I'm pretty sure that's why Kima goes into the interrogation room with them. Notice that as McNulty asks why they can't just sell the drugs and walk away, the camera settles on her, and she's got her hand over her mouth like she's pondering every word being said. It's one of the most important issues raised by the show, and the first time it's brought up, we're watching not the person saying it, or the person it's being said to, but a third party observer, just like us. She's an audience surrogate. That whole idea and scene is doubly tragic because, as escape artist's recap notes, McNulty ends up chasing after the only guy who wants to go that way for selling drugs. One thing I noticed, like everything in The Wire, things from it tend to pop up everywhere after the show. The song McNulty is listening to while drinking near the end of ep2 is heavily sampled in this recent top40 track This thread has prompted a rewatch for me. I hope we can solve the mystery of the train. Canadian Surf Club fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 06:26
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Randomly Specific posted:I don't know. I thought on my first viewing that was a sign that he had some kind of principles, but he spends the rest of the series burning everybody who comes near him. I can't think of any other principled moments he had, and he would've burned Carcetti at the end if he hadn't been given the carrot and stick treatment. People always mention Rawls at the Kima shooting but another hint of this is shown when Hamsterdam is revealed. Rawls seems to be the only person there who recognizes, maybe even sympathizes, with what Bunny was trying to do - he has a great quote like "Too bad it's gonna cost us all our careers, but brilliant loving plan nonetheless." Of course, he eventually terminates Bunny with extreme apparent satisfaction (the "get on with it, motherf-" scene) so there's your contradiction.
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Dec 24, 2012 06:51
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Something that never occurred to me when I first watched this show, amidst all the debate over clean vs juked stats, is just how clueless even the brightest cops seem to be. People like Daniels, Freamon, and to a degree McNulty are very adamant that more patrols and more sweeps of corners do nothing to reduce crime, while building major cases is the only way to really combat the problem. All throughout the show there are a number of speeches made to this effect, and for a long time I went along with it, as it seemed clear that these guys were fighting the good fight. But then I started to think how incredibly myopic these guys were being the whole time. Of course they're police, not social workers, and their main concern is doing the best policework they can do. But as parts of an institution, they can't seem to look outside of the institution and see that even great policework is still just an after the fact deterrent, and not a way to attack the source of crime i.e. poverty, lack of opportunity, etc. In the end their efforts might reduce the numbers, but it still does absolutely nothing to help most of the people languishing in the inner city with no prospect of a bright future. All in all it's pretty impressive how the show can drag you along and get you on the side of these police, but ultimately even they aren't doing anything to solve the bigger problems. The only one who was on to something was Colvin, and we all know what happened to him...
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Dec 24, 2012 07:36
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I feel like the way Omar and Rawls handle their homosexuality is almost a perfect metaphor for their personal relationship with the system. Omar flaunts his homosexuality in the face of the system and dares anyone to challenge him over it. Rawls suppresses it in order to advance within the system. I feel like Rawls could have being a Lester or McNulty, given his skills and what he is capable of observing, but suppresses it in order to advance his career.
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Dec 24, 2012 07:37
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The Rooster posted:I feel like Rawls could have being a Lester or McNulty, given his skills and what he is capable of observing, but suppresses it in order to advance his career. When Rawls flips the sign in the Kima shooting episode, I figured he was probably quite competent as an officer and detective before he decided to climb the career ladder.
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Dec 24, 2012 12:45
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escape artist posted:When Rawls flips the sign in the Kima shooting episode, I figured he was probably quite competent as an officer and detective before he decided to climb the career ladder. The times we see him ripping into someone at comstat I seem to remember it being, most of the time, over the actual quality of police work being done. He also seems to have a Mcnulty level ability to remember endless amounts of specific details about crime in Baltimore.
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Dec 24, 2012 14:54
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^ I'm watching S3 right now, and that's actually just a trick. The comstat system allows him to sort crimes by type, time, location, and so forth, so Rawls has an inexhaustible source of gotcha questions. He can grab a random figure, like "Car thefts in downtown parking lots on Friday nights," and throw it at a guy, and there's no reason anybody would have that on hand. The guy is stumped and looks like an rear end in a top hat, so Rawls can browbeat him, but he isn't actually doing anything more complex than dicking with a spreadsheet.
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Dec 25, 2012 04:47
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Rewatching Season 2 right now, really digging the slow close ups of Frank Sobotka's thousand yard stare that get worse throughout the season.
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Dec 26, 2012 14:16
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I started my third viewing of The Wire today, and then came across this thread. I am going to jump aboard here if no one minds. Is it relevant to bring up how DeAngelo's baby is treated in 'The Detail'? Avon saying stuff like "come to me" and Dee saying "take care of my little soldier" or something like that. The kid has been born into a life where he's likely to join in on the game, which is really covered in season 4, but I think that's kind of a suggestion of it early on. Or maybe I am thinking too far into it, but it's not that crazy to think.
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Dec 26, 2012 23:20
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There's a kid around the 19:00 mark of episode 3, when Lester's visiting the gym for a picture of Avon, who looks a hell of a lot like a younger Michael. I can't find any credits for him but it'd make sense for him to be hanging out around the boxing gym.
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Dec 26, 2012 23:38
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Zombie Raptor posted:I started my third viewing of The Wire today, and then came across this thread. I am going to jump aboard here if no one minds. No, absolutely. It is clearly assumed by Avon, D'Angelo, Dee's mom - everyone - that that kid will end up in The Family Business, because at this point they don't see an end to their empire. It's interesting to assume that kid will go in to slinging drugs, just like his uncle and father, just like Ziggy and Nick join the family business working the docks.
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Dec 27, 2012 00:23
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Parachute Underwear posted:There's a kid around the 19:00 mark of episode 3, when Lester's visiting the gym for a picture of Avon, who looks a hell of a lot like a younger Michael. I can't find any credits for him but it'd make sense for him to be hanging out around the boxing gym. I noticed this too but it's a complete coincidence. Something similar happens in season 3 where one of the junkies looks exactly like Michael's mom (it may actually be the same actress, though this may not be true and I doubt it was planned I choose to believe its her, since it makes sense.) In somewhat related trivia that is actually true: Chris' actor has an uncredited cameo in the pilot as a security guard in the courtroom.
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Dec 27, 2012 00:27
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Zombie Raptor posted:I started my third viewing of The Wire today, and then came across this thread. I am going to jump aboard here if no one minds. I have to disagree, I think, given what D'Angelo had gone through (already in the show, but definitely by the time he saw what happened to Wallace) he would stand up to Avon and not let his kid get into the game by any means necessary. Frankly, I thought the scene just illustrated Avon has a softer side, and its really juxtaposition was with Marlo Stanfield, and the generation of gangsters that come after Avon. Could you imagine Marlo Stanfield running a community buffet dinner, and smiling while holding a baby? cletepurcel posted:In somewhat related trivia that is actually true: Chris' actor has an uncredited cameo in the pilot as a security guard in the courtroom. Never noticed this, what part exactly? Or can you post a screenshot. Gbenga Akinnagbe is a cool dude. Add him on Twitter; he'll talk to you. escape artist fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 00:28
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escape artist posted:I have to disagree, I think, given what D'Angelo had gone through (already in the show, but definitely by the time he saw what happened to Wallace) he would stand up to Avon and not let his kid get into the game by any means necessary. Frankly, I thought the scene just illustrated Avon has a softer side, and its really juxtaposition was with Marlo Stanfield, and the generation of gangsters that come after Avon. Could you imagine Marlo Stanfield running a community buffet dinner, and smiling while holding a baby? I can also see this being the case. edit: I wish I had more to add, but this is my first re-watch where I pay close attention to the details, writing and cinematic methods. Edit 2: What episode am I supposed to be on for this discussion? Two, still? Does it matter? Terra-da-loo! fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 01:11
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chesh posted:Simon mentions this on the commentary for s1e1, and I wish I had taken notes. I can transcribe it when I get back home if you guys want, but basically, he says that it was important that the higher ups be human - they aren't evil, just out for number 1, and the first time they truly show this was Kima's shooting. This is interesting in terms of his later depictions of Marlo: doesn't he get to be a higher-up eventually? Also, don't they foreshadow a Marlo-esque future for Kenard, who is about as close to evil as anyone portrayed in the series?
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Dec 27, 2012 01:45
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Skeesix posted:This is interesting in terms of his later depictions of Marlo: doesn't he get to be a higher-up eventually? I dunno, I think viewing Kenard (or anyone) in anything resembling a dichotomy of good/evil is doing a disservice to both David Simon and the show itself. Kenard is a walking metaphor for a specific aspect of institutional decay in America, like many characters on the show both major and minor. He is one particular example of the many consequences that come from an inner-city school institution that is rotted out to the very core, and in some ways a particularly prescient example given recent events in the news. The Wire has to have reached some sort of unofficial record when it comes to being uncannily prophetic about the years that immediately followed it's ending. Also, I recently watched this interview that David Simon did on Bill Moyers back in like, 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic It's pretty fantastic stuff, undoubtedly old content for some of the folks in this thread but for those of us who missed it before, this is a REAL treat. One of those things where I clicked on it and didn't really have the time to watch the whole thing and was in the middle of a bunch of work... And 45 minutes later I had watched the whole thing and was really freaking sad there wasn't more.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:03
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Skeesix posted:This is interesting in terms of his later depictions of Marlo: doesn't he get to be a higher-up eventually? I think he meant more on the police/public institution side of things. I would say he achieved this for the most part but with mixed results. Much of this should be discussed a lot later but: Royce and Burrell have many flaws but it's clearly shown that the thing to blame is the structure that put them there, not the people themselves. (And I would argue Royce showed more humanity than Burrell, whose only human moment was consoling Kima's girlfriend in season 1. He shows absolutely zero concern or skill for anything for the whole series other than preserving his own job.) Carcetti clearly had some genuine idealism in him to start, but he basically was like a political version of Rawls: his ambition overrode any principles or actual useful skills he had. I would argue Simon fell short of this goal in season 5 with the news editors, but that's a discussion for another day. Of course the exception is the few clear villains on the show such as Valchek, Levy and Clay Davis who simply exploit the system. The important thing, though, is that everyone on the show is clearly institutionally conditioned. Marlo and Kenard may be evil but they're clearly intended - at least, this is what Simon argues - as the logical conclusion to a generation that grew up DURING the War on Drugs and the accelerated economic marginalization of the poor blacks in Baltimore. This is why Avon and Stringer seem a bit more benevolent - because they're from an earlier generation where it actually seemed possible to dream higher, and where the ideals of community were stronger. (This is made quite explicit when Prop Joe is killed by Marlo, who he misread even worse than Stringer did, in his grandpa's old house, which he keeps living in out of pride.) Wee-Bey says in season 4 that if someone like Marlo existed "back in the day" he would have been killed and buried in the woods pretty quickly. They're both beholden to the drug game which actually HAS changed, despite what Slim says ("Game the same. Just more fierce"). grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 02:15
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cletepurcel posted:In somewhat related trivia that is actually true: Chris' actor has an uncredited cameo in the pilot as a security guard in the courtroom. It's not in the pilot. It's coming in an episode or two. They round up the pit and there is nothing but touts but this one old dude (looks to be in his 30s?) is rounded up. McNulty and Gregs go to the courthouse and tell the prosecutor to press him. They end up giving him 20 years thinking he will flip. He shuts them down cold and says "I'll take the years." The scene before that when they intro the courthouse you see a street cop do a walk on across the scene. That street cop is Chris' actor. The old guy is later shown when Orlando is pinched in the reverse buy and is being processed. He calls someone and declares "Pimpin rear end Orlando" is in the cut.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:46
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John Jhonson posted:Something that never occurred to me when I first watched this show, amidst all the debate over clean vs juked stats, is just how clueless even the brightest cops seem to be. People like Daniels, Freamon, and to a degree McNulty are very adamant that more patrols and more sweeps of corners do nothing to reduce crime, while building major cases is the only way to really combat the problem. All throughout the show there are a number of speeches made to this effect, and for a long time I went along with it, as it seemed clear that these guys were fighting the good fight. That comes back to the game aspect. 'Protect and serve' is in there, but for guys like McNulty and Freamon and to some extent Daniels the job is about winning the game more than anything. 'Quality work' is what lets them get at the bigger players, take rooks and bishops and knights and maybe even checkmate the king instead of collecting a pile of pawns. That's what made Colvin so unique, because he tried an approach to actually fix the problem and then focus on going after the guys who cause real problems.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:39
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Just finished season 2, it was just as good as season 1 imo. They got so close to getting the greek. Im incredibly frustrated.
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Dec 27, 2012 05:15
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hobbez posted:Just finished season 2, it was just as good as season 1 imo. They got so close to getting the greek. Im incredibly frustrated. You really probably want to wait to finish the series before you get back into this thread. The other thread is mostly safe from spoilers, but we're happily hammering out the spoilers in this one.
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Dec 27, 2012 05:26
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3spades posted:It's not in the pilot. It's coming in an episode or two. They round up the pit and there is nothing but touts but this one old dude (looks to be in his 30s?) is rounded up. McNulty and Gregs go to the courthouse and tell the prosecutor to press him. They end up giving him 20 years thinking he will flip. He shuts them down cold and says "I'll take the years." The scene before that when they intro the courthouse you see a street cop do a walk on across the scene. That street cop is Chris' actor. Holy poo poo I never knew that old guy who rats out Orlando was that guy from earlier in the series. This show continues to blow my mind.
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Dec 27, 2012 10:24
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I love how D'Angelo is watching thirties gangster films while dressing in the morning during the series' titular episode in Season 1. The crime genre in film, especially the gangster genre, has been a lot about images, perceived vs. the real. The idea of D watching a movie with cops chasing robbers or gangsters or whatever he's watching is entertaining. He's not at all that sort of gangster, but he is still perceiving himself as such. He's softer than that and we all know it, now. Edit: I say this, despite the way the cops are still chasing him. I think what I mean is somewhat clear, though.
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Dec 27, 2012 19:00
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Speaking of minor characters re-emerging later on in the series, there's a bearded redhead dock worker who appears as one of the homeless later on in season 5. Re-establishing how crucial Frank was to the survivability of the docks themselves. When he died, it all went to pot. I used to think of Season 2 as the "worst" season but after my third rewatch, I really appreciate it so much more. loving Ziggy. That scene with him walking back into the sea of inmates and Frank's heart just silently breaking is still one of the most powerful scenes in television history. E the Shaggy fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 19:23
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One thing that I'm sad never came up again was the East/West basketball game. I mean, I know that Marlo's not the type to care about some dude's jump shot, but I feel like there's more to say about AAU sports than one crooked coach skimming an extra 5k off of Barksdale.
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Dec 27, 2012 20:18
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A big part of me wishes they had just made Jimmy an immigrant from the UK. Usually it's Idris's accent (as has been mentioned before) in things like this that I cannot ignore, but West steals the show in terms of bad accents for at least season one. I will pay more attention to this as I progress. Of course, then the accent would have been even more distracting. Terra-da-loo! fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 22:33
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Zombie Raptor posted:A big part of me wishes they had just made Jimmy an immigrant from the UK. Usually it's Idris's accent (as has been mentioned before) in things like this that I cannot ignore, but West steals the show in terms of bad accents for at least season one. I will pay more attention to this as I progress.
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Dec 27, 2012 23:32
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