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StupidSexyMothman
Aug 9, 2010

AtomicDrop posted:

To help you end the derail here's a question, Questions Thread:

John Cena dropped poop on Dolph & AJ. How is he the good guy in this story?

Every aggressor looks like the heel if you only look at that particular segment of aggression without the context of anything that came before it. AJ pushed Cena off a ladder, costing him the chance at a world heavyweight title match, to publicly announce she was dumping Cena and joining Dolph.

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Supreme Allah
Oct 6, 2004

everybody relax, i'm here
Nap Ghost

Minidust posted:

Remember, this is the company where farting = face turn

Farting implies an absence of malice.

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE

bartok posted:

Can you actually picture any heel ever dropping poop on a babyface?

I could see something like that happening in Memphis or Mid-South back in the day.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you
So to sum up: blood is dropped by heels, poop by faces. Beer & Milk can be sprayed by faces as well.

AtomicDrop
Nov 7, 2011

triplexpac posted:

So to sum up: blood is dropped by heels, poop by faces. Beer & Milk can be sprayed by faces as well.

Ah, not to forget the classic face move: pissing in someone's drink.

All things considered, I hereby accept dropping poop on someone as a face move.

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.

Minidust posted:

Remember, this is the company where farting = face turn

Having to compare Khali to Bret Hart is probably a more humiliating gimmick, imho.

harley
Sep 2, 2004
Who was in the Dragon Dragon costume?

Is PWTorch worth the $10 subscription?

Justin Godscock
Oct 12, 2004

Listen here, funnyman!

Paper Jam Dipper posted:

Babyface Eddie did it.
Babyface D-Generation X did it.

If "attacking someone after a match" gets called a heel move because of precedent, then poop drops are a babyface move by precedent.

Rock slammed British Bulldog into dog poop (resulting in Cole screaming "THE DOG POOP" for like 10 hours on commentary). I think Rock might have been babyface at the time.

I'm thinking last RAW was Vince McMahon saying "You know, the WWE Universe hasn't seen my sense of humor in a while" and we got Mae Young pregnancies and poo poo dropping from the sky. I like to think Cole and Lawler literally had Vince screaming "LAUGH GODDAMNIT!" in their headsets as well.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

bartok posted:

Can you actually picture any heel ever dropping poop on a babyface? It was silly and stupid not malicious like if had beaten Dolph and AJ with a steel chair. I guess if he knocked them out and cut them then poured the poo poo in their wounds that would be heelish.

Dolph and AJ dying from sepsis as a result still wouldn't turn Cena heel in the eyes of the Cenation.

To turn everyone against Cena, Vince is going to have to get him to use a baseball bat on Ricardo's knees, or start having him insult the sports teams of every major city he visits. People haaaaate it when wrestlers go after their favorite sports teams.

The Monkey Man
Jun 10, 2012

HERD U WERE TALKIN SHIT
Has the WWE been to Denver since the whole Nuggets incident? I can imagine Vince being petty enough to stay away from there on purpose.

Oh, and the Rock was definitely a face when he slammed Bulldog into the dog poop. I also remember that he screwed Bulldog out of the title as a special referee for no reason at all. "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ROCK SAYS THE COUNT IS!"

some bust on that guy
Jan 21, 2006

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Dr. Video Games 0055 posted:

Rock slammed British Bulldog into dog poop (resulting in Cole screaming "THE DOG POOP" for like 10 hours on commentary). I think Rock might have been babyface at the time.

That's a little different. Rock's babyface character in 99 was basically that he was a huge rear end in a top hat. Look no further than him calling his tag team partner retarded and insulting him all the time.

You might be able to say the same thing about DX. Eddie doing it is a little weird though.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

The Monkey Man posted:

Has the WWE been to Denver since the whole Nuggets incident? I can imagine Vince being petty enough to stay away from there on purpose.

Oh, and the Rock was definitely a face when he slammed Bulldog into the dog poop. I also remember that he screwed Bulldog out of the title as a special referee for no reason at all. "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ROCK SAYS THE COUNT IS!"

I am pretty sure at that point Bulldog had no idea where he was and what he was doing most of the time.

Bard Maddox
Feb 15, 2012

I'm just a sick guy, I'm really just a dirty guy.

The Monkey Man posted:

Has the WWE been to Denver since the whole Nuggets incident? I can imagine Vince being petty enough to stay away from there on purpose.

Oh, and the Rock was definitely a face when he slammed Bulldog into the dog poop. I also remember that he screwed Bulldog out of the title as a special referee for no reason at all. "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ROCK SAYS THE COUNT IS!"

They came here for that loving abysmal Raw in July where AJ proposed to Punk, and then Bryan proposed to AJ and I don't remember everything else on that show but I remember that it sucked. Then they taped a Smackdown right afterwards because of the fires in Colorado Springs and everybody was dead for it. I had tickets for that show, but I couldn't go at the last moment and boy was I thrilled.

e: there was a Cole/Lawler match and Hornswoggle was revealed as the Anonymous Raw GM. gently caress that was a bad show.

Bard Maddox fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jan 4, 2013

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008

The Monkey Man posted:

Has the WWE been to Denver since the whole Nuggets incident? I can imagine Vince being petty enough to stay away from there on purpose.

They ran a show there in July. Same arena, but it was a make-up SuperShow because they had cancelled SmackDown elsewhere. I'm not sure if they were originally scheduled to do a show at the Pepsi Center at all before that but it was probably meant to be just a RAW.

Edit: Beaten because I am slow as heck.

reality_groove
Dec 27, 2007

When did the 'rematch clause after a title change' bit first get used?

Karmine
Oct 23, 2003

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.

harley posted:

Is PWTorch worth the $10 subscription?

If you're gonna spend money subscribing to a wrestling website it should probably be the observer, unless the extra dollar a month is somehow a dealbreaker.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?

jscolon2.0 posted:

Having to compare Khali to Bret Hart is probably a more humiliating gimmick, imho.
Vince was laughing his rear end off when he ordered that Natayla say that.

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008

getitoffgetitoff posted:

I thought Davey Richards was the lamest dude on the planet when he first came to ROH.

These days everybody hates him because he's an rear end in a top hat, but I still think he's pretty cool v:shobon:v
At this point my give-a-poo poo for Davey Richards more or less stems from the American Wolves and Eddie Edwards.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



harley posted:

Who was in the Dragon Dragon costume?
Multiple people.

There's a photo of Eddie Kingston wearing the headless costume backstage.

budreck
Aug 2, 2005

by XyloJW
What was the real reason Samoa Joe was de-pushed after his title run? The time period that led to him being abducted by ninjas, then returning months later with no explanation with a Nation of Violence gimmick... Many say it's because TNA is retarded but there were rumours of a lot of workers saying Joe only has himself to blame.

I know he gained a lot of weight during this time but was that the only reason for being jobbed out or did he really piss someone off?

Karmine
Oct 23, 2003

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.
My understanding (as a dude who wasn't watching/following TNA much at the time so grain of salt) is that Russo wasn't a fan of Joe so he booked him like poo poo and then Joe stopped giving a gently caress and gained a bunch of weight.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Also Joe gave a bunch of interviews and made comments at indy appearances about how badly he was being booked, which in turned pissed off Russo more.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

I'm sure straight up bad booking had a fair bit to do with it, but around that time he put on a lot of weight and I think his wife had a kid or two. The thing I figured was that partly because TNA was booking him badly and partly because he had a home life to deal with he stopped kind of giving a poo poo for awhile. Which in turn probably gave TNA some reason to book him worse and worse. Which gave him less of a reason to care. Etc, etc.

Then the fire seemed to light under him again around the same time TNA started to book him ok. Maybe it was his kids growing up a bit, maybe Hulk's arrival, maybe he loved teaming with Magnus. But both he and TNA seemed to start giving a poo poo at the same time, just like they seemed to stop at the same time years earlier.

HulkaMatt
Feb 14, 2006

BIG BICEPS SHOHEI


Pretty sure Russo blamed Joe also.

LightsGameraAction
Sep 4, 2006
What does Booger Red mean and how did it get applied to the Undertaker during his Biker faze? Was it just JR's doing?

Bard Maddox
Feb 15, 2012

I'm just a sick guy, I'm really just a dirty guy.

LightsGameraAction posted:

What does Booger Red mean and how did it get applied to the Undertaker during his Biker faze? Was it just JR's doing?


It's just kind of a dumb nickname.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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it's a loving terrible nickname and I'm surprised no one shut down JR's attempts immediately.

Bocc Kob
Oct 26, 2010
Wait, Undertaker is a ginger? :aaa:

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

Bocc Kob posted:

Wait, Undertaker is a ginger? :aaa:

Yuuuup.





Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010
I thought Bloody Snotter was a great nickname for Biker Taker.

HulkaMatt posted:

Pretty sure Russo blamed Joe also.

I'm pretty sure Russo blamed everything from the wrestlers to the network, women, the Jews, the Mexicans and Shark week before he admitted his writing was sub par. Joe was very open with his distaste for Russo's booking but would only bring it up when the crowd was chanting "TNA sucks", "gently caress TNA" or "Fire Russo". I'm also very sure that Joe said as much to anyone who would listen, including Vince Russo. The second Russo was gone Joe got his fire back.

God, Russo was dreadful.

Tyma
Dec 22, 2004

Chwyldro Dawnsio Dawns
Are there any stories of wrestlers being that upset with their placement or gimmick, while they were actually being pushed to the moon, in the eyes of everyone else?

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
I dunno, I guess Shawn?

He was pretty pissed off with everything though from about 1995-1998.

Jefferoo
Jun 24, 2008

by Lowtax
Other than winning a gold medal at the olympics, what's the big deal around Kurt Angle? Is he interesting or compelling at all? I'm kinda curious on people's thoughts on him.

HulkaMatt
Feb 14, 2006

BIG BICEPS SHOHEI


He improved at an extremely fast rate and had some amazing matches, some being the best of the last decade.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

budreck posted:

What was the real reason Samoa Joe was de-pushed after his title run? The time period that led to him being abducted by ninjas, then returning months later with no explanation with a Nation of Violence gimmick... Many say it's because TNA is retarded but there were rumours of a lot of workers saying Joe only has himself to blame.

I know he gained a lot of weight during this time but was that the only reason for being jobbed out or did he really piss someone off?
Joe was booked to be the biggest thing ever before Russo got there. Russo had him lose to Angle twice, then do nothing for awhile. Joe was booked at an ROH show (TNA talent used to be able to book themselves anywhere else but WWE), said he tripped over some bad booking on his way there and Russo de-pushed him even harder. Then he stopped giving a poo poo. He got pushed again a few times, and during one of the pushes he got his world title win over Joe at Lockdown and it did TNA's biggest buyrate since Raven Vs. Jarrett during the weekly PPV days (About 50,000 buys each).

He also main-evented Bound for Glory with Sting at one point and did a dive from the upper deck of an arena onto the concrete stairs. He hasn't been the same since.

He and Russo didn't like one-another and he's been out of shape for years. Every once-in-a-while he looks like he's lost some weight and his moves get quicker, but it doesn't last. Right now he's sometimes awesome and sometimes good. It sort of depends on his booking. He seems to only be motivated when he's either having fun or knows they're treating him with respect.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 2 minutes!
I get the impression a lot of people dislike Kofi Kingston; any reason? He doesn't have great psychology and I've noticed that Team Hell No doesn't work as smoothly when he's in the mix, but I like some of his spots and I don't see a reason to call him out as particularly poor.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005

Fun Shoe

Jefferoo posted:

Other than winning a gold medal at the olympics, what's the big deal around Kurt Angle? Is he interesting or compelling at all? I'm kinda curious on people's thoughts on him.

He was one of the writers of Shrek 2

HulkaMatt
Feb 14, 2006

BIG BICEPS SHOHEI


Like it took Angle about a year and a half to get really good and maybe another half year to become one of the best in the world.

moonsour
Feb 13, 2007

Ortowned

Halloween Jack posted:

I get the impression a lot of people dislike Kofi Kingston; any reason? He doesn't have great psychology and I've noticed that Team Hell No doesn't work as smoothly when he's in the mix, but I like some of his spots and I don't see a reason to call him out as particularly poor.

I love Kofi, I really do, but I don't like watching his matches most of the time because nothing interesting happens in them. Kofi's great with signature moves and getting kids into a show, but the actual matches are kinda boring until he goes for a boom drop or trouble in paradise.

Also he has no pecs, and it creeps me out.

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Bard Maddox
Feb 15, 2012

I'm just a sick guy, I'm really just a dirty guy.

Halloween Jack posted:

I get the impression a lot of people dislike Kofi Kingston; any reason? He doesn't have great psychology and I've noticed that Team Hell No doesn't work as smoothly when he's in the mix, but I like some of his spots and I don't see a reason to call him out as particularly poor.

We had this argument a couple weeks ago so I'll just paste what I wrote then:

Thunder Hammerfist posted:

I hate Kofi Kingston because he is a really bad wrestler. For someone whose offense is a lot of kicks, he either misses or kicks two feet past their skull, concussing them (Miz). The rest of his offense doesn't look like it hurts. That jumping clothesline off the ropes? He lightly places his arms across the other guy's chest and they fall because "jumps". In his match against Barrett on Sunday, he missed like two dropkicks by a foot. The finish of that match was also bad, because instead of kicking Barrett off the initial spin he did like two extra spins which looked bad because anyone with a brain could have seen it coming. He also uses a crossbody as a finishing move sometimes which is bad.

He's bland on the mic, his only character trait is "I jump" (which may not be his fault but he's had like four years to get another one), and there's nothing he could do that any other high flyer on the roster (Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd) could do about 10 times better. He is good at selling and getting beaten up and making that looks like it hurts, so points for that.

Mostly though it's just the fact that he sucks at wrestling.

Thunder Hammerfist posted:

In the TLC match he hit a "this wouldn't hurt a child" fallaway elbow and then missed a dropkick by like six inches.

Here, I made this gif of it really quickly:



I mean come on how is that supposed to look good I don't think the elbow even touched him

In addition, I just want to add that he just looks like he's mailing it in about 90% of the time. I will give credit to the match he had with Barrett this week. He kinda moved like he had purpose, but his offense still looked like poo poo during it, and I was thrilled to see him lose the title so he can hopefully go jump around in the lower card. People always complain about hosses who are bad and screw up moves, but quote unquote "high flyers" never really get any criticism unless they botch regularly, and then they just go "sin cara botch machine lol".

Mostly I'd rather just see pretty much any other cruiserweight type guy who can make offense look not only flashy, but actually realistic to watch.

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