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Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON

Code Jockey posted:

Did Nintendo ever freak out about the Gravis pad? I never thought about it before, though the similarity to the Super Famicom controller [those colored buttons :allears:] is undeniable. The Gravis pad didn't have shoulder buttons, if that counts for anything.

Honestly I can't see them really caring, and beyond that they'd have a hard time proving in court that they had any actual damages. If Gravis had been selling a replacement that worked with their system they might have done something, or even if Nintendo was making a game port version of their controller. But it was a controller that worked on a different platform with a completely different connector, so I don't really see why they'd give any fucks about it.

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Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Geoj posted:

Honestly I can't see them really caring, and beyond that they'd have a hard time proving in court that they had any actual damages. If Gravis had been selling a replacement that worked with their system they might have done something, or even if Nintendo was making a game port version of their controller. But it was a controller that worked on a different platform with a completely different connector, so I don't really see why they'd give any fucks about it.

I find it interesting that they didn't sue, actually. I mean, nowadays companies sue each other if the other guy's phones so much as copied their "rounded corners" and all that. Back then a company made a near-clone of a controller for a best-selling videogame system for what is arguably a competing system and the multinational corporation that made said videogame system didn't give two fucks.

Acute Grill
Dec 9, 2011

Chomp

A FUCKIN CANARY!! posted:

That little black switch changes the directions of the d-pad so that the controller can be used upside-down. Some sort of misguided attempt at a "lefty flip" option.

I feel like you could nominate the "lefty flip" as a software option for failed technology, unless it's more widely used than I think it is. It's not like either hand requires more dexterity when using a controller and most games don't have the control option anyway so any left-handed person is already well trained in using controllers the normal way.

Most "lefty-friendly" stuff, really. The public world is built right-handed. We've learned to adapt.

Acute Grill has a new favorite as of 07:45 on Jan 11, 2013

torjus
Nov 22, 2005

I want YOU to MSPaint!

Geoj posted:

Honestly I can't see them really caring, and beyond that they'd have a hard time proving in court that they had any actual damages. If Gravis had been selling a replacement that worked with their system they might have done something, or even if Nintendo was making a game port version of their controller. But it was a controller that worked on a different platform with a completely different connector, so I don't really see why they'd give any fucks about it.
They probably would give some fucks if Gravis had used Nintendo's patented design for the d-pad.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Parallel Paraplegic posted:

I find it interesting that they didn't sue, actually. I mean, nowadays companies sue each other if the other guy's phones so much as copied their "rounded corners" and all that. Back then a company made a near-clone of a controller for a best-selling videogame system for what is arguably a competing system and the multinational corporation that made said videogame system didn't give two fucks.

I imagine that some was that there were fewer patents for things like "rounded corners" or "interacting with a computer using one's fingers" or whatever other stupid stuff twenty years ago. Not zero, sure, but fewer.

BogDew
Jun 14, 2006

E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

Killer robot posted:

Not zero, sure, but fewer.
Apple was harsh with it's patents, even in the beginning where they went after Digital Research's Graphical Environment Manager for having too many similarities - such as the top of screen menu bar.

There's a shade of bitter irony as GEM was developed from ideas at PARC, much like Mac Os had been.

They went as far as to try and put a patent out on "Trash" but lost all court cases save the one defining the appearance and name of the icon. Thus everything else nowadays is called something like "recycle bin".

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

WebDog posted:

They went as far as to try and put a patent out on "Trash" but lost all court cases save the one defining the appearance and name of the icon. Thus everything else nowadays is called something like "recycle bin".

I always liked OS/2's shredder which just destroyed the files. (Speaking of obsolete technology...)

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.

Kalos posted:

Most "lefty-friendly" stuff, really. The public world is built right-handed. We've learned to adapt.

Except those lovely scissors that don't work unless you twist your fingers in a cramp inducing way.

I do not understand why anyone would decide to use the mouse with their left hand, even as a very left hand dominant person I had no problem learning to use a mouse like a normal person. I use trackpads and trackpoints with my left hand though.

doritos
Dec 6, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post

WebDog posted:


There's a shade of bitter irony as GEM was developed from ideas at PARC, much like Mac Os had been.


Not really. GEM was only started on in mid 84, rushed out early 85. The AES horribly buggy and slapped together - click and drag wouldn't "catch" nine times out of ten, leaving you holding a mouse button down as the computer ignored you. There was no support for other fonts, etc. It was incredibly slow (NVDI is what, 1500% faster for some operations?) and crashed constantly.

It was nothing but an attempt to cash in on the market the mac opened up. Up until that point DRI was more or less happy to sit with their thumbs up their rear end as far as guis were concerned.

Darmvlinder
Jan 14, 2013

Oscar Romeo Romeo posted:

gently caress me, teletext still exists? Now I've seen everything, in the UK it was useful for having an accurate TV guide given the issues with last minute program changes but everything about it was absolutely awful. I have to admit it was kind of cool (for five minutes) to browse if you were off school sick to see how inventive some pages were but still, how on earth in the age of having the internet available on demand across multiple platforms is that even still alive?

In Belgium Teletext is actively used for TV applications such as news reports, sports scores and subtitling. Also, the teletext-ages are being updated with the newer logos of the companies that run the TV stations these days. In Sweden and Belgium, it's certainly alive. I still use it.

sweeperbravo
May 18, 2012

AUNT GWEN'S COLD SHAPE (!)

longview posted:

Except those lovely scissors that don't work unless you twist your fingers in a cramp inducing way.

I do not understand why anyone would decide to use the mouse with their left hand, even as a very left hand dominant person I had no problem learning to use a mouse like a normal person. I use trackpads and trackpoints with my left hand though.

The only thing I could think of would be if you ONLY had your left hand and therefore no other option.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


I'm left-handed and I use the mouse with my right hand when I'm at work or I have to use someone else's computer.

But at home I use the mouse with my left hand, because I can only use the movement keys in FPS games with my right hand. I blame years and years of playing PC games with the arrow keys.

JPrime
Jul 4, 2007

tales of derring-do, bad and good luck tales!
College Slice

KozmoNaut posted:

I'm left-handed and I use the mouse with my right hand when I'm at work or I have to use someone else's computer.

But at home I use the mouse with my left hand, because I can only use the movement keys in FPS games with my right hand. I blame years and years of playing PC games with the arrow keys.

:smith::hf::smith: What's up, non-WASD buddy.

Base Emitter
Apr 1, 2012

?

KozmoNaut posted:

But at home I use the mouse with my left hand, because I can only use the movement keys in FPS games with my right hand. I blame years and years of playing PC games with the arrow keys.

I don't have that problem, but I do have to invert mouse-look in almost every single game I play. This is almost entirely the fault of Chuck Yeager's Air Combat and A-10 Tank Killer.

DicktheCat
Feb 15, 2011

Base Emitter posted:

I don't have that problem, but I do have to invert mouse-look in almost every single game I play. This is almost entirely the fault of Chuck Yeager's Air Combat and A-10 Tank Killer.

We are one.

Gilgameshback
May 18, 2010

Here's an obsolete but not entirely failed piece of technology - the Sheaffer Snorkel fountain pen:





The Snorkel is probably the most sophisticated and complex fountain pen of all time. Most fountain pens fill by sucking up ink through the nib and feed (the ribbed rubber or plastic piece beneath the nib). This gets the nib covered in ink, which needs to be wiped off after filling. The Snorkel adressed this problem by including a little metal tube that extended from underneath the nib and could be used to suck ink out of an inkwell like a mosquito sucks blood.

The filling system was well engineered and worked beautifully, but it was extremely difficult to service and probably cost quite a lot to manufacture. Also most people didn't mind wiping ink off their pens after refilling, so the problem that the snorkel system solved wasn't really a big deal.

Fountain pens are an interesting case study in technological obsolescence because fountain pen technology has actually gotten notably worse since about the 1970s - most modern fountain pens use an inefficient, low-volume cartridge/converter fill system, and the nibs are much worse now than they were during the golden age.

The Snorkel sold well, and it's not terribly hard to find restored examples of it today if you're interested.

SG-83
Sep 6, 2004

I guess it's not just a dog thing!

Gilgameshback posted:

Fountain pens are an interesting case study in technological obsolescence because fountain pen technology has actually gotten notably worse since about the 1970s - most modern fountain pens use an inefficient, low-volume cartridge/converter fill system, and the nibs are much worse now than they were during the golden age.
In elementary school we all had to use fountain pens, starting at what would be the 1st grade in the US (1990). Most (if not all) of us used the ink cartridge-fed pens. They ran out of ink very quickly...I think I usually had 10-20 ink cartridges on hand.

eddiewalker
Apr 28, 2004

Arrrr ye landlubber

SG-83 posted:

In elementary school we all had to use fountain pens, starting at what would be the 1st grade in the US (1990). Most (if not all) of us used the ink cartridge-fed pens. They ran out of ink very quickly...I think I usually had 10-20 ink cartridges on hand.

Sounds like we're about the same age. Pen use was discouraged, if not completely disallowed until maybe 8th or 9th grade. Mechanical pencils were gold, and friends discussed the merits of 0.5mm and 0.7mm lead. Couple of weird kids used 4mm, but come on.

I don't think I actually touched a fountain pen until after college. They might have been pictured on the old-time-y US Constitution posters in grade school.

mystes
May 31, 2006

eddiewalker posted:

They might have been pictured on the old-time-y US Constitution posters in grade school.
Fountain pens weren't in common use until around a century after the Constitution was written.

eddiewalker
Apr 28, 2004

Arrrr ye landlubber

mystes posted:

Fountain pens weren't in common use until around a century after the Constitution was written.

Feather quill, whatever.

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.
When I was a little kid in the early 1970s the schooldesks all had a hole in the top. It was years later that I found out they were for placing one's inkwell. We were all using pencils and ballpoint or felt tip pens by then.

Dick Trauma has a new favorite as of 18:34 on Jan 19, 2013

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Gilgameshback posted:

Here's an obsolete but not entirely failed piece of technology - the Sheaffer Snorkel fountain pen:





The Snorkel is probably the most sophisticated and complex fountain pen of all time. Most fountain pens fill by sucking up ink through the nib and feed (the ribbed rubber or plastic piece beneath the nib). This gets the nib covered in ink, which needs to be wiped off after filling. The Snorkel adressed this problem by including a little metal tube that extended from underneath the nib and could be used to suck ink out of an inkwell like a mosquito sucks blood.

The filling system was well engineered and worked beautifully, but it was extremely difficult to service and probably cost quite a lot to manufacture. Also most people didn't mind wiping ink off their pens after refilling, so the problem that the snorkel system solved wasn't really a big deal.

Fountain pens are an interesting case study in technological obsolescence because fountain pen technology has actually gotten notably worse since about the 1970s - most modern fountain pens use an inefficient, low-volume cartridge/converter fill system, and the nibs are much worse now than they were during the golden age.

The Snorkel sold well, and it's not terribly hard to find restored examples of it today if you're interested.
Leo McGarry: We spent millions of dollars developing a pen for the astronauts that would work in zero gravity. Know what the Russians did?
Toby Ziegler: Used a pencil?
Leo McGarry: They used a pencil.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 30, 2005

by Hand Knit

Alhazred posted:

Leo McGarry: We spent millions of dollars developing a pen for the astronauts that would work in zero gravity. Know what the Russians did?
Toby Ziegler: Used a pencil?
Leo McGarry: They used a pencil.

At which point, the graphite in the pencil would flake off, float around, and short out something important, as graphite IS conductive.
So, sure the Russians did it "better" if you don't really give a poo poo about the lives or safety of your crew.

Opinion Haver
Apr 9, 2007

Johnny Aztec posted:

At which point, the graphite in the pencil would flake off, float around, and short out something important, as graphite IS conductive.
So, sure the Russians did it "better" if you don't really give a poo poo about the lives or safety of your crew.

I don't even think they used a pencil. I think they both wound up using wax pencils, which work in zero gravity and don't have conductive flakes.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Johnny Aztec posted:

At which point, the graphite in the pencil would flake off, float around, and short out something important, as graphite IS conductive.
So, sure the Russians did it "better" if you don't really give a poo poo about the lives or safety of your crew.

Also http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

Roy
Sep 24, 2007

Dr. Ohnoman posted:

Hell yeah, obsolete PC gaming controllers.

I remember the Gravis Gamepad totally blew my mind when I first saw one in the early-to-mid 90s, because as a kid I thought only Nintendo and Sega had controllers like that. Never had one of those myself, though, my family didn't buy a computer until 1999 and by that time there were far better controllers available.



I have this and it still works after 15 years. Hands down the best controller for platform games I've ever used.

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Johnny Aztec posted:

At which point, the graphite in the pencil would flake off, float around, and short out something important, as graphite IS conductive.
So, sure the Russians did it "better" if you don't really give a poo poo about the lives or safety of your crew.

As bullshit as it is, are you implying the Soviet Union DID give a poo poo about the lives or safety of their crew?

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010

Gilgameshback posted:


Fountain pens are an interesting case study in technological obsolescence because fountain pen technology has actually gotten notably worse since about the 1970s - most modern fountain pens use an inefficient, low-volume cartridge/converter fill system, and the nibs are much worse now than they were during the golden age.

The Snorkel sold well, and it's not terribly hard to find restored examples of it today if you're interested.


Modern f. pens seem good enough to me, though I wouldn't pass up on trying an oldie. More people should use fountain pens.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 30, 2005

by Hand Knit

VogeGandire posted:

As bullshit as it is, are you implying the Soviet Union DID give a poo poo about the lives or safety of their crew?

Of course not.


As facetious as I am sure Alhazred was being, I've heard that argument multiple times as a "lol scientists" example, as well as " Why didn't they just use a pencil?".
Phanatic, thank you for that snopes article. It was an interesting read.




Also, that Microsoft Sidewinder controller was the best drat controller for playing old emulators. I had the old GamePort version(something for this thread in itself) and then later a USB version. Wonderful for anything 2d.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

yaoi prophet posted:

I don't even think they used a pencil. I think they both wound up using wax pencils, which work in zero gravity and don't have conductive flakes.

Grease pencils, actually, because you "sharpen" them by peeling away the paper wrapper, so they don't generate any debris whatsoever. Wax flakes aren't much better than graphite flakes in space. Also the charts and stuff they had to write on were usually laminated, and neither pens nor pencils will do well with those.

e: oh I looked it up and I guess "wax pencil" is some kind of stupid fake no good bad term for a grease pencil

dougie
Dec 28, 2012

Fortunately my dad opted to replace our Sinclair Spectrum with an Amiga 500 rather than one of these..


Equally fortunate we waited for a PS1 rather than buying this..


We did spend ages trying to tune this thing in though..

thedouche
Mar 20, 2007
Greetings from thedouche

:dukedog:

I used to have one of these. I kind of wish I had one now. I could tape my protocols to the wall (I take notes when I notice something mid experiment or more likely gently caress something up) and have excess counter space.

Grumbletron 4000
Nov 30, 2002

Where you want it, bitch.
College Slice
I was one of those kids with the Casio universal remote watch. It was a mayhem machine. I memorized the codes for different brands so I could crank the volume up on entire displays of TVs at the stores. At school I drove several teachers to a nervous breakdown.



One of them was this poor old home economics teacher who was a year from retirement anyway. Between every single tape she played going totally bugfuck and throwing pistachio pudding in the washing machines she just got a 1000 yard stare one day and walked out. She never taught again.

point of return
Aug 13, 2011

by exmarx

thedouche posted:

I used to have one of these. I kind of wish I had one now. I could tape my protocols to the wall (I take notes when I notice something mid experiment or more likely gently caress something up) and have excess counter space.

Do you have at least nine dollars? (Click on the Cap-O-Matic link on the left; those go down to nine)

Acute Grill
Dec 9, 2011

Chomp

Johnny Aztec posted:

Also, that Microsoft Sidewinder controller was the best drat controller for playing old emulators. I had the old GamePort version(something for this thread in itself) and then later a USB version. Wonderful for anything 2d.

I remember pestering my parents for ages to get me a Sidewinder. The fact that we didn't have any games on the family computer that could benefit from or even recognize controller was irrelevant. With the Xbox 360 controller (and licensed off-brand ones) working both for PCs and its actual indended console, they're probably set on holding the PC controller market for a while. Hell, you can even navigate Steam itself with one.

Acute Grill has a new favorite as of 10:58 on Jan 21, 2013

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

dougie posted:

Fortunately my dad opted to replace our Sinclair Spectrum with an Amiga 500 rather than one of these..


I never even saw one of those in real life. Were they even sold in stores outside the UK?

Palpatine MD
Jan 31, 2012

Passionate about your involuntary euthanasia.
The fountain pen discussion made me look up the pens we were issued in elementary school, which was the Lamy ABC:

http://www.amazon.com/Lamy-ABC-Fountain-Blue-Right/dp/B000FA5EII

It's a hell of a lot more expensive then I would have thought, and it explains why school never replaced mine even though I chewed the poo poo out of it.

dougie
Dec 28, 2012

axolotl farmer posted:

I never even saw one of those in real life. Were they even sold in stores outside the UK?

Doubt it, I think they more or less went bust right after launch. I remember seeing them for sale in John Menzies and nobody seeming to care.

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!

Palpatine MD posted:

The fountain pen discussion made me look up the pens we were issued in elementary school, which was the Lamy ABC:

http://www.amazon.com/Lamy-ABC-Fountain-Blue-Right/dp/B000FA5EII

It's a hell of a lot more expensive then I would have thought, and it explains why school never replaced mine even though I chewed the poo poo out of it.

Granted, I grew up in East Germany and then early unified Germany - but those fountain pens were the norm all the way til 1999 when I graduated. I still have one or two somewhere.

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d34dm34t
Jul 21, 2007

axolotl farmer posted:

I never even saw one of those in real life. Were they even sold in stores outside the UK?

I actually had one of those back in the day. It was a half decent machine but MGT really weren't up to the task of building a computer. I got mine on release day and the disk operating system was completely missing. I think we were stuck with using tapes for first few months. Then the promised software support failed to arrive and eventually the keyboard membrane packed up. But by that point an Amiga 1200 had arrived in the household and the poor old Sam was banished to the loft.

Thinking about it, I really should try to resurrect it. Replacement membranes are available and as the UK's last attempt at a home computer it deserves to live again.

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