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I remember that fight being hard as hell on my juggernaut. Was my dps just that bad? I ended up killing the annoying underling and then going "Hey man, I just wanted to talk to came out with with the lightsabers." Being  and mind loving Jedi masters is the best part of LS Sith Warrior.
Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jan 12, 2013 |
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Jan 12, 2013 00:15
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God drat that was an amazing update, PoptartsNinja. Out-light siding a Jedi Master and at the same time rubbing his nose in the Order's utter hypocrisy. 
SWMadness fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jan 12, 2013 |
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Jan 12, 2013 02:12
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SWMadness posted:God drat that was an amazing update, PoptarsNinja. Out-light siding a Jedi Master and at the same time rubbing his nose in the Order's utter hypocrisy. It gets better! Trust me.
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Jan 12, 2013 03:09
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That close-up on Mort's eyes was glorious, PTN. Very much a "oh, poo poo's gon' get real" moment.
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Jan 12, 2013 03:44
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:That close-up on Mort's eyes was glorious, PTN. Very much a "oh, poo poo's gon' get real" moment. Just imagine the Bond theme kicking in right there.
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Jan 12, 2013 08:13
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For all their railin' about fear and anger, the Jedi sure get hot and bothered easily.
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Jan 13, 2013 05:27
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Glazius posted:For all their railin' about fear and anger, the Jedi sure get hot and bothered easily. In the Jedi mindset, the counterbalance to extreme emotion isn't calmness and stoicness, it is smugness. So when being smug inexplicably (in their eyes) fails, they lose their poo poo.
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Jan 13, 2013 05:35
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Glazius posted:For all their railin' about fear and anger, the Jedi sure get hot and bothered easily. I just love how hypocritical those Jedi were. Heck, if I am to write the prequel movies I would definitely have Jedi Order's complete demonization of emotion as the theme that led to fall of Anakin despite how Yoda claims how bad he was in ESB.
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Jan 13, 2013 05:38
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Yeah but given how the Star Wars EU works (see Legacy of the Force and Revan) it'll turn out that Mortiferous (or whoever the canon Sith Warrior is) was actually a moustache twirling Captain Planet villain that regularly raped Vette. 
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Jan 13, 2013 05:47
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SirPhoebos posted:Yeah but given how the Star Wars EU works (see Legacy of the Force and Revan) it'll turn out that Mortiferous (or whoever the canon Sith Warrior is) was actually a moustache twirling Captain Planet villain that regularly raped Vette. That's impossible. Vette's a virgin. No, the canon Sith Warrior will have a scene where he pisses in Satille Shan's cornflakes to prove his dominance. VVV The creepiest scene in the game isn't the one you'd predict. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jan 13, 2013 |
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Jan 13, 2013 05:54
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PoptartsNinja posted:That's impossible. Vette's a virgin. But, why did you put... why did you think of... what possible reason is there... I don't even... 
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Jan 13, 2013 06:16
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In all fairness to the smug Jedi, total and absolute disbelief looks like an entirely rational response to anything the Sith do that isn't cackling maniacally and jumping at your skull. I mean, look at the track record for Sith NPCs - a few pages ago it was considered shocking to meet a guy who seemed to consider sending his workers into certain death a poor idea, or at least something other than 'hilarious.' What I'm saying is that if it looks like a duck but doesn't quack like a duck, you can be forgiven for continued wariness if every duck in existence so far has been a horrifying sociopath with magic superpowers.
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Jan 13, 2013 06:20
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Drakyn posted:In all fairness to the smug Jedi, total and absolute disbelief looks like an entirely rational response to anything the Sith do that isn't cackling maniacally and jumping at your skull. I mean, look at the track record for Sith NPCs - a few pages ago it was considered shocking to meet a guy who seemed to consider sending his workers into certain death a poor idea, or at least something other than 'hilarious.' You can, but their entire philosphy is based on "The Light Side will win out, because... uh... we're better than you!  "So in this case, guarded skepticism was probably the best reaction. But every single time you run into a Jedi in this, he's just a smug dick who tells you how you've already lost because JEDI!
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Jan 13, 2013 06:29
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Zaodai posted:You can, but their entire philosphy is based on "The Light Side will win out, because... uh... we're better than you! The depressing bit is he's got good reason to be smug. If he looks at the historical track record, his ability to actually fight a Sith, any Sith, is totally irrelevant to the Sith losing or winning in the long run. If he wins the fight, fine enough, but if he loses they'll all just back-front-and-side-stab each other to death in two weeks anyways and he wins again. The less charitable-to-the-Jedi way to put this than "the Light Side always wins!" would be "the Dark Side will inevitably shove its own face into a meat grinder." The only way he can be wrong about his Sith-fightin' win-loss assumption is to run into a Light Side Sith. Which as far as he knows is like running into a blue-colored red.
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Jan 13, 2013 07:01
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Drakyn posted:The depressing bit is he's got good reason to be smug. If he looks at the historical track record, his ability to actually fight a Sith, any Sith, is totally irrelevant to the Sith losing or winning in the long run. If he wins the fight, fine enough, but if he loses they'll all just back-front-and-side-stab each other to death in two weeks anyways and he wins again. The less charitable-to-the-Jedi way to put this than "the Light Side always wins!" would be "the Dark Side will inevitably shove its own face into a meat grinder." Or for the Sith to get an Army together and murder the poo poo out of the Jedi. But what are the chances of that ever happening? Ultimately, my point isn't strictly against this Jedi Master. He would have been a fool to give up the Padawan's location, regardless of Mort's intent. It would still be revealing your secret weapon to your enemy in a very real war. It'd be like if Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes was your stand in Nazi. He's friendly and nice and doesn't want to hurt people. But he's still the enemy. My point is that the Jedi belief system is just as flawed as that of the Sith, and they're both retards. The Sith have in-fighting and treachary. The Jedi go to the opposite end of the scale and try to actively avoid conflict and have their heads so far up their own asses they couldn't see reason if it were personified and standing a foot in front of them. Yet they are convinced that they are not just morally superior, but objectively superior because of their passive-agressive technically pacifist voodoo cult.
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Jan 13, 2013 08:50
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Drakyn posted:In all fairness to the smug Jedi, total and absolute disbelief looks like an entirely rational response to anything the Sith do that isn't cackling maniacally and jumping at your skull. I mean, look at the track record for Sith NPCs - a few pages ago it was considered shocking to meet a guy who seemed to consider sending his workers into certain death a poor idea, or at least something other than 'hilarious.' To be fair, there is also a bit of mirroring on the other side, with the Republic characters finding every sith being "to powerful" for the Jedi to defeat. And then they're all shocked when it happens. Of course, the guardian has the best bit, with his own Sith Supervillain Squad that he spends an act fighting.
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Jan 13, 2013 09:59
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Calax posted:To be fair, there is also a bit of mirroring on the other side, with the Republic characters finding every sith being "to powerful" for the Jedi to defeat. And then they're all shocked when it happens. This happens? I can't wait to get a better web connection so I can get back into this, this will be HILARIOUS.
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Jan 13, 2013 11:56
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Bahumat posted:This happens? I can't wait to get a better web connection so I can get back into this, this will be HILARIOUS. Sort of... basically the Jedi's act I is a Darth trying to get revenge for his son, a sith "prodigy" you killed on coruscant, by using 4 of the Republics superweapons against them. Each superweapon has a not-built-up-at-all Sith who guards it/operates it. And each of them have an "I'm to powerful for you to win!" line or six. Of course, the hardest fight on that character I've found is the mid-act break where you fight a VERY unique dark jedi and have to use every single button that they've given you at that point to have a chance at winning. Thinking back on it, it seems like the writers put all of their work into Act 1 for most of the characters and II and III are just "OH poo poo! We need more!"
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Jan 13, 2013 16:52
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Zaodai posted:Or for the Sith to get an Army together and murder the poo poo out of the Jedi. But what are the chances of that ever happening? quote:My point is that the Jedi belief system is just as flawed as that of the Sith, and they're both retards. The Sith have in-fighting and treachary. The Jedi go to the opposite end of the scale and try to actively avoid conflict and have their heads so far up their own asses they couldn't see reason if it were personified and standing a foot in front of them. Like I've said, they're actually RIGHT about being objectively superior to the Sith - where they go wrong is that this means much, because being superior to the Sith is like being superior to a lugworm. The number one tendency of the Sith over literally thousands of years is "will get each other all killed in a pointlessly avoidable manner." How do you NOT come off as superior to that? The worst the Jedi flaws get is sometimes they're smug know-it-alls and now and then one of them goes totally nuts... which are, well, some things that the Sith do a whole lot more often - almost constantly, in fact. The worst Jedi problems are pretty much 'business as usual' for Sith. It's easy to argue that a best-case scenario would be neither faction existing, but it'd take some pretty chunky Kool-Aid to say that they're each exactly as terrible as the other. Calax posted:To be fair, there is also a bit of mirroring on the other side, with the Republic characters finding every sith being "to powerful" for the Jedi to defeat. And then they're all shocked when it happens.
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Jan 13, 2013 18:24
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Drakyn posted:it comes off as really weird when you're fighting Generic Man With GunTM and his Crack Squad of Gun-Peoples, who are SUPER-SURE that this time they're the ones that can't lose because hey, they've got, like, really good guns. Or a really big electrified butterknife.
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Jan 13, 2013 20:03
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Drakyn posted:Like I've said, they're actually RIGHT about being objectively superior to the Sith - where they go wrong is that this means much, because being superior to the Sith is like being superior to a lugworm. The number one tendency of the Sith over literally thousands of years is "will get each other all killed in a pointlessly avoidable manner." How do you NOT come off as superior to that? The worst the Jedi flaws get is sometimes they're smug know-it-alls and now and then one of them goes totally nuts... which are, well, some things that the Sith do a whole lot more often - almost constantly, in fact. The worst Jedi problems are pretty much 'business as usual' for Sith. The Jedi are superior because the narrative says they are. The Sith, by and large, are people who got tired of the Jedi being loving morons and left, and then needed a reason to win in the story because they're the designated good guys. I mean, what have the Jedi ever really accomplished? They beat up the evil empire they CREATED through being unreasonable, smug, stupid dicks. After thousands of years of letting that empire oppress people. Their worst problem is that their organization and philosophy inherently create evil counter-organizations.
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Jan 14, 2013 00:08
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Calax posted:Sort of... basically the Jedi's act I is a Darth trying to get revenge for his son, a sith "prodigy" you killed on coruscant, by using 4 of the Republics superweapons against them. Each superweapon has a not-built-up-at-all Sith who guards it/operates it. And each of them have an "I'm to powerful for you to win!" line or six. And he means a chance, if memory serves A: You don't have your healer companion yet and B: they take your DPS companion away from you just before the fight with no warning. My guardian character died to it about 10 times trying to get the learning curve down before I had one of my higher level guild mates come in and obliterate him for me. When I came through with my Sentinel I just obliterated him with purple weapon mods. It still was a pain.
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Jan 14, 2013 00:25
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Zaodai posted:The Jedi are superior because the narrative says they are. The Sith, by and large, are people who got tired of the Jedi being loving morons and left, and then needed a reason to win in the story because they're the designated good guys. Well, if one were inclined to be charitable, I suppose you could say that was the point: that the sith were created because of the Jedi, and if the Jedi were ever to fall, a new enemy would have to arise to keep the sith from devouring itself. Both sides need each other, preserving the balance, yadda yadda. I say charitable because there are far more elegant ways to explore the concept of balance and portray it, ways that the star wars EU has even indulged (mostly in books written by Matt Stover).
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Jan 14, 2013 00:34
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Zaodai posted:Or for the Sith to get an Army together and murder the poo poo out of the Jedi. But what are the chances of that ever happening? I really hate to do this, but I suddenly have to give credit to Palpetine and whoever came up with the "no more than two sith at a time" rule. The Sith philosophy makes no sense for an entire order of people to follow, much less one that represents some sort of state religion and aristocracy for an Empire. Palpetine as egoist supreme and absolute ruler of an Empire that didn't give two shits about the Force is probably the most sane manifestation of the Sith philosophy ever, since at least you're not training your minions to backstab you. He finally figured out that the secret to the Sith beating the Jedi is to have like one Sith and a shitload of soldiers. It kind of reminds me of the philosophy arguments about how the best nihilists wouldn't even talk about nihilism since evangelizing goes against the theory, so the ultimate Sith is one who doesn't even care about all the dumb traditions and philosophies of the Sith and just uses it for personal power. Dolash fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jan 14, 2013 |
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Jan 14, 2013 01:03
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Kurieg posted:And he means a chance, if memory serves A: You don't have your healer companion yet and B: they take your DPS companion away from you just before the fight with no warning. My guardian character died to it about 10 times trying to get the learning curve down before I had one of my higher level guild mates come in and obliterate him for me. When I came through with my Sentinel I just obliterated him with purple weapon mods. It still was a pain. Well, they force you to use a specific companion for the one I'm thinking about. For the end-of-act break they take the companion.
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Jan 14, 2013 01:36
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If you think that an empire can't be built on backstabbing, backroom politics and ruthless ambition, then I strongly suggest you listen to the History Of Rome (and History Of Byzantium) podcasts. Nearly fifteen hundred years of people punching each other in the face or stabbing each other in the back to get to be Emperor, but the Empire endures - that's a run that's hard to beat.
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Jan 14, 2013 01:43
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Thanks for those podcasts, I enjoy historical series like these.
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Jan 14, 2013 04:32
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Kloro posted:If you think that an empire can't be built on backstabbing, backroom politics and ruthless ambition, then I strongly suggest you listen to the History Of Rome (and History Of Byzantium) podcasts. Nearly fifteen hundred years of people punching each other in the face or stabbing each other in the back to get to be Emperor, but the Empire endures - that's a run that's hard to beat. Well, part of that is also what you see in China. The organizational foundations for the empire are largely the same, just the guys in charge are different. So while Julius Ceaser and his contemporaries were murdering and conquoring their way to the end of the Republic, there was still the same colonial yahoo in charge of Gaul and Spain.
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Jan 14, 2013 04:43
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Zaodai posted:The Jedi are superior because the narrative says they are. The Sith, by and large, are people who got tired of the Jedi being loving morons and left, and then needed a reason to win in the story because they're the designated good guys. I think there's a chance we're talking slightly past each other: I've been disputing with your argument being 'the Jedi being declared as better than the Sith is bull,' but from this I'm guessing it's more 'the Jedi being declared perfect goody-goodies is bull.' In which case, yeah, nothing but agreement there. Dolash posted:I really hate to do this, but I suddenly have to give credit to Palpetine and whoever came up with the "no more than two sith at a time" rule. The Sith philosophy makes no sense for an entire order of people to follow, much less one that represents some sort of state religion and aristocracy for an Empire. The sad bit is that even he couldn't whole-hog escape the dumber parts of what he sensibly considered a very, very dumb philosophy, because he couldn't resist taking a shot at turning the last sort-of-Jedi into his boytoy soldier instead of having him killed outright. If he'd held in that urge to hock one more loogie into the face of a dead order and mustered up all that ruthless pragmatism just once more, he might not have taken a short walk down a long shaft.
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Jan 14, 2013 05:20
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Calax posted:Well, part of that is also what you see in China. The organizational foundations for the empire are largely the same, just the guys in charge are different. True - see how Genghis Khan was able to come charging in murdering entire cities and taking over, but the civil service remains largely intact and the Khan's descendants wind up as just another dynasty. Which I guess is a large part of the Imperial Agent storyline, from what I've seen so far (not having played the game).
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Jan 14, 2013 09:57
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So we're currently on the desert planet, we're probably going to the ice planet soon and we've already been on a city planet. Looks like we're going to be able to visit the gay planet in the expansion pack! Bioware are finally adding the gay romance options to the game that they promised, but they're sticking them all on one planet and making you pay for it, apparently.
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Jan 14, 2013 19:28
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Veotax posted:So we're currently on the desert planet, we're probably going to the ice planet soon and we've already been on a city planet. Looks like we're going to be able to visit the gay planet in the expansion pack! I can't decide what to post, there's just too many possibilities. I will say I'm surprised they didn't just lift the gender restrictions on their existing romance options, but I guess the dialogue was written with gender in mind the first time through and now they'd need to redo a bunch of voice-over work.
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Jan 14, 2013 19:34
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What it sounds like is that they didn't want to go back and change all the stuff in the existing content that would need to change so instead they created a whole new place where it could potentially occur. Oh Bioware, your clumsy antics never cease to amaze.
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Jan 14, 2013 19:39
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Want meaningful same sex relationships with your companions that have a character and events? Too bad, here gay planet. gently caress YOU. But who is honestly surprised they took the easy way out? Therefore, this scene will never happen. You are free right now, aren't you...Quinn? 
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Jan 14, 2013 19:53
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Palladium posted:I just love how hypocritical those Jedi were. Heck, if I am to write the prequel movies I would definitely have Jedi Order's complete demonization of emotion as the theme that led to fall of Anakin despite how Yoda claims how bad he was in ESB. Hell, that's pretty much the legitimate reading of the series as a whole. Luke only wins in the end by IGNORING Yoda and Obi-Wan about killing Vader and instead using his attachment to redeem him. The prequel Jedi rant about "attachment" but any sane being has attachment of some sort (no/poor attachment to reality = insane by definition!) . Even the Jedi have 'em considering loyalty to the Republic, the "light side", their master/apprentice, etc. are attachments, even if they are "good" ones. The Jedi would have done better teaching their people how to judge and if need be cut attachments rather than pretend they don't exist. Worse, the one foolproof way to avoid attachment to something is to not care about it. Which means everything the Jedi aren't deluding themselves about being attached to is something they don't care about. That's pretty much what generates the whole "spend all your life navel-gazing in a temple" and smugness issues they have; they don't care enough about the typical attachments most folks have and (worse) think everybody who does have them is "screwing up". Not that the Sith are any better considering they seem to have the same stupid "attachments are a weakness" belief, they're just a tad more literal about "cutting" said attachments. For a TOR-specific example, Darth Malgus (the guy who keeps bossing around all four of our protagonists for flashpoints) apparently pre-game had a girlfriend he killed off specifically to deal with the "weakness" of that attachment. Which if you think about it is dumb; how is having someone whose death could push you into a passionate killing rage against the enemy responsible a BAD thing under the Sith code? Peace is a lie, there is only passion - except when you kill it off yourself apparently. Drakyn posted:The amazing bit is that even after a victory that thorough, and even though there were only two Sith left at that point (the EU can jump off a cliff), they STILL managed to backstab each other to death after two decades of uncontested power, over a single sorta-Jedi that they could definitely beat. They really can't win because they won't let themselves win. Ever. If every Jedi in the universe dropped dead of spontaneous brain failure, the Sith would murder each other to the last man over who got to whizz on which brick of the Jedi Temple. While I've never held to the whole "oooh Knights of the Old Republic 2 is sooo awesome" thing that seems standard in fandom (it's good but not the be-all of Star Wars, sorry), one of the things I did love Kreia saying in there was that the Sith were definied by their hatred of the Jedi. Think about it; if you're gonna break away from the Jedi, why keep so much of their trappings? Why wield lightsabers instead of guns or Force-directed grenades, or something? Why wear robes, or reject attachments, and all the other hold-overs? A hell of a lot of the Sith philosophy seems directed at telling the Jedi "we can do your way better than you by using the Dark Side!" rather than coming up with a truly new way of living. So it's no wonder they fall apart once the Jedi are, temporarily or otherwise, out of the picture; they don't have anything else at all actually unifying them. Really the Jedi are the Sith attachment they're obsessed with. Not to bring the book EU into this too much, but I finally got around into reading the books about Darth Bane (the guy who came up with the whole Rule of Two thing) and I loved one of the characters in there being a Dark Jedi who plain did not buy into the whole Sith thing. He was attracted to the whole "awesome powers of the Dark Side" thing the Sith had, but when the chance arose to get that without getting pulled into the whole "crush the Jedi/rule the galaxy" thing he basically said "peace out bitches have fun with that!" and left. Really rubbed in the Sith obsession the way he could be Dark Side but didn't give a drat about their ideals.
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Jan 14, 2013 20:06
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The Sith split from the Jedi before Lightsabers were even invented, back in the days where everyone flying around the galaxy carried a sword. I think the Sith were the first to use them but I am hardly a Star Wars Historian.
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Jan 14, 2013 20:14
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Sith split from the Jedi before Lightsabers were even invented, back in the days where everyone flying around the galaxy carried a sword. I think the Sith were the first to use them but I am hardly a Star Wars Historian. Oh God the  is taking over me! - the Sith race used swords before Jedi exiles who took 'em over brought lightsaber technology; think they kept using swords in some cases but that was because Sith alchemy could do some interesting things with them. And anyway, even if it involves swords only (which the very first light/dark split on Typhon this game goes into Jedi-side used) the point kind of stands, since even back then they had guns and such. The Sith/predecessors used exactly what their opponents used against them despite having other options. Given the sword/lightsaber is more meant for Jedi rules of engagement (a defensive weapon, since you can block attacks, but requires more deliberate effort to actually kill enemies with than pulling a trigger), it's certainly gimping someone who has no apparent reason to give a drat about not being aggressive or not harming innocents. Lord knows in this game I've occasionally wished I was running a ranged class shooting off bombs and such instead of a melee Jedi/Sith, especially when the enemies in question are ranged and spread out.
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Jan 14, 2013 20:25
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MadDogMike posted:Lord knows in this game I've occasionally wished I was running a ranged class shooting off bombs and such instead of a melee Jedi/Sith, especially when the enemies in question are ranged and spread out. Which is why Kyle Katarn is the best Jedi ever.
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Jan 14, 2013 20:41
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Veotax posted:So we're currently on the desert planet, we're probably going to the ice planet soon and we've already been on a city planet. Looks like we're going to be able to visit the gay planet in the expansion pack! Wait, their solution was to create a separate but equal planet? Seriously? This article isn't a parody?
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Jan 14, 2013 23:46
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PFlats posted:Wait, their solution was to create a separate but equal planet? Seriously? This article isn't a parody? It was the most insulting of options, did you really expect them to do anything else? Watch the planet be named something halfway offensive and be a non-canon planet that only exists for the purpose of having gays in SWTOR.
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Jan 15, 2013 00:02
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