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Zlatan Imhobitch posted:What makes you guys want brand new cars? Being 100% sure it hasn't been beat on by someone else? Being able to drive it home with the film still on it, it's first detail being at my hand and it going to get a clear bra the next day? It's a car I see myself keeping long term? I'm a whiny cry baby and am not patient enough to wait for them to be reasonably priced used? Pretty much all of those for me 
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Jan 16, 2013 05:19
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Also, warranty and to a lesser extent, maintenance. It's nice to know that while you are probably paying a monthly payment for the next X years, you also will not be subject to paying for any unusual failures for the first 3 years / 36,000 miles, and any unusual powertrain failures for a good bit longer than that. The only warranty you're getting on an E46 at this point is going to be by way of an overpriced aftermarket warranty which may or may not fight you tooth and nail on actually paying out for things.
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Jan 16, 2013 05:52
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Good point IOC. The e46 is a great car, two of my good friends have them (one SMG M3, one manual M3), but their maintenance, even when doing it themselves isn't cheap.
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Jan 16, 2013 07:06
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Mat_Drinks posted:Good point IOC. Because it's a car that started at 45k new. A used BRZ would be something like an Integra.
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Jan 16, 2013 07:25
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Nice to see you can fit 15s over the stock brake setup at least and TRD made a cool retro style wheel! Thats one thing I realy hate about this car is the standard wheels look like horrible cheap aftermarket ones, but I guess thats how they managed to make it nice in other areas.
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Jan 16, 2013 14:26
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I must be a phillistine then because I think the stock wheels look fine. What are some examples of better designs that could go well with it? The retros in the pic above remind me too much of a top down view of R2-D2's head.
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Jan 16, 2013 14:59
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DerDestroyer posted:I must be a phillistine then because I think the stock wheels look fine. What are some examples of better designs that could go well with it? The retros in the pic above remind me too much of a top down view of R2-D2's head. Regamasters or TE37s  Anything solid spoked and a bit motorsport.
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Jan 16, 2013 17:01
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a big fwiggen terd posted:Nice to see you can fit 15s over the stock brake setup at least and TRD made a cool retro style wheel! Those wheels look hideous. That's right, I said it 
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Jan 16, 2013 17:17
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Zlatan Imhobitch posted:Regamasters or TE37s So not rotas, at cost then? 
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Jan 16, 2013 17:24
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Zlatan Imhobitch posted:Regamasters or TE37s Enkei RPF1s in GOLD  Oil question, I'm thinking I'll change the oil after the first thousand miles with something like Amsoil fully synthetic 0W-20. Does anyone have any experience with that brand, it was something thrown around as being one of the best on ft86club. I don't know anything about engine oil aside from making sure to match the Xw-XX number up with what's in the manual.
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Jan 16, 2013 17:25
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Rabble posted:The FR-S sacrifices the 0-60 time I'd rarely use to get the handling I wish I'd had in the mustang. This is a nitpick, but I would differentiate handling and driving feel. From everything I've read, the new V6 Stang handles very well. It acquits itself well at the track. What it must not do well is deliver good driving feel. Felt the same between my Vette and 944. The C6 is a monster at handling, but you get very little feedback from the steering wheel and the tires. By contrast, the 944 intimately communicates what's going on, which makes for a very satisfying drive. I think that's where the 86 really trumps a Mustang.
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Jan 16, 2013 17:28
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a big fwiggen terd posted:So not rotas, at cost then? Quit getting mad at cheap drift wheels
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Jan 16, 2013 17:29
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Rabble posted:Enkei RPF1s in GOLD I recommend Royal Purple or Castrol. If you have the money for it, Royal Purple is the way to go in my book.
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Jan 16, 2013 17:29
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I'll be using Penzoil Platinum 0w-20. I couldn't find a spec sheet on Royal Purple but have always shied away from it.
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Jan 16, 2013 20:35
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kimbo305 posted:This is a nitpick, but I would differentiate handling and driving feel. From everything I've read, the new V6 Stang handles very well. It acquits itself well at the track. What it must not do well is deliver good driving feel. Felt the same between my Vette and 944. The C6 is a monster at handling, but you get very little feedback from the steering wheel and the tires. By contrast, the 944 intimately communicates what's going on, which makes for a very satisfying drive. I think that's where the 86 really trumps a Mustang. Isn't handling basically driver feedback and driving feel? How the car communicates with the driver? After all, "handling is what happens when you run out of grip" and all that. To put your words in slightly different terms, the V6 Mustang has good mechanical grip and is fast around a track, but it's not a well-handling car because you get hardly any feedback.
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Jan 16, 2013 20:41
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KozmoNaut posted:Isn't handling basically driver feedback and driving feel? How the car communicates with the driver? quote:After all, "handling is what happens when you run out of grip" and all that. That's true. But that would apply whether or not you, the driver, knew when the car was about to run out of grip or which end of the car was slipping more, etc.
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Jan 16, 2013 21:49
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j3rkstore posted:I'll be using Penzoil Platinum 0w-20. I couldn't find a spec sheet on Royal Purple but have always shied away from it. I think I'm just going to go to the dealer and ask if they have the official Toyota 0w-20 synth. Everyone seems to have an opinion about what the "best" oil is so I think I'll just stick with the manufacturer's brand. My fear is that they put 5w-30 into it at the dealer I bought it from and while not terrible, it's not optimal with how cold it's been outside. It takes about a minute for the revs to drop from 1500 to 600 at startup and it seems too long, also my mileage isn't as high as it should be based on the reports of other owners. Edit: also I know they filled the tank with regular gas so I know they're cheap enough to use the wrong oil. I almost demanded that they pump the tank and refil it with premium, probably should have... Rabble fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 21:51
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Rabble posted:I think I'm just going to go to the dealer and ask if they have the official Toyota 0w-20 synth. Everyone seems to have an opinion about what the "best" oil is so I think I'll just stick with the manufacturer's brand. My fear is that they put 5w-30 into it at the dealer I bought it from and while not terrible, it's not optimal with how cold it's been outside. It takes about a minute for the revs to drop from 1500 to 600 at startup and it seems too long, also my mileage isn't as high as it should be based on the reports of other owners. Not a bad idea to use the Toyota oil while under warranty. I thought the FR-S had free oil changes for the first 50K however... I rented a new ecoboost ford escape and was wondering why it ran like poo poo, so I checked out the ford website and the power drops a ton if you use regular, which as a rental was a definite. Slapped that thing in 3rd gear on the highway, burned the tank down and switched to 93 and there was much more boost!
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Jan 16, 2013 22:10
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Rabble posted:I think I'm just going to go to the dealer and ask if they have the official Toyota 0w-20 synth. Everyone seems to have an opinion about what the "best" oil is so I think I'll just stick with the manufacturer's brand. My fear is that they put 5w-30 into it at the dealer I bought it from and while not terrible, it's not optimal with how cold it's been outside. It takes about a minute for the revs to drop from 1500 to 600 at startup and it seems too long, also my mileage isn't as high as it should be based on the reports of other owners. You should have. The owner's manual states 93 octane must be used, but 91 octane can be used in a pinch if 93 isn't available.
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Jan 16, 2013 23:13
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The Toyota 0W20 is the same as the Honda and Mazda, IIRC. It's Itemitsu and the UOAs on my Mazda2 have come back great.
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Jan 17, 2013 00:03
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Phone posted:The Toyota 0W20 is the same as the Honda and Mazda, IIRC. It's Itemitsu and the UOAs on my Mazda2 have come back great. Right, I figured they all got it from the same place, my worry is that the dealer is a cheapass (where I bought it and where ill service are two different dealers) who bought a drum from billy bob's discount lube instead of doing the minimum of using actual Toyota branded bottles.
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Jan 17, 2013 00:05
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KozmoNaut posted:Isn't handling basically driver feedback and driving feel? How the car communicates with the driver? After all, "handling is what happens when you run out of grip" and all that. No, a car can handle well and have lovely feedback. Bad handling is when you turn the wheel and the car takes five seconds to react to the input and then has terminal understeer from any steering input, even in a parking lot. Rabble posted:I think I'm just going to go to the dealer and ask if they have the official Toyota 0w-20 synth. Everyone seems to have an opinion about what the "best" oil is so I think I'll just stick with the manufacturer's brand. My fear is that they put 5w-30 into it at the dealer I bought it from and while not terrible, it's not optimal with how cold it's been outside. It takes about a minute for the revs to drop from 1500 to 600 at startup and it seems too long, also my mileage isn't as high as it should be based on the reports of other owners. The RPM drop is triggered by a timer or temp switch in the engine and isn't affected by oil other than how hard it is for the motor to start. Given that you seem to live in Texas I seriously doubt you'll notice the difference between a 0W-20 and 5W-30 except for losing a few mpg highway.
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Jan 17, 2013 00:46
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I know subaru got ultra specific on the engine oil weight post 2011 on all of their cars, the new FA series included, and in many cases stopped recommending a range of oil weights. They can't deny warrany coverage over using non-toyota/subaru branded oil. However, they do have wiggle room out of warranty coverage if you use a weight outside of their spec. So, I would check the owner's manual first and see if it's a range that's given or if they are saying 0w20 only. If they say 0w20 only and you show them oil change records that indicate 5w30 when you try to get a spun bearing taken care of, that could be all they need to say "nope, your dime."
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Jan 17, 2013 00:50
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Voltage posted:Not a bad idea to use the Toyota oil while under warranty. I thought the FR-S had free oil changes for the first 50K however...
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Jan 17, 2013 00:51
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Muffinpox posted:No, a car can handle well and have lovely feedback. Bad handling is when you turn the wheel and the car takes five seconds to react to the input and then has terminal understeer from any steering input, even in a parking lot. Bad handling can go a lot further than this, even. A car that goes into unpredictable snap oversteer is just as bad handling as one that just wants to push - it's just a trait you won't find on pretty much any properly maintained modern car. Muffinpox posted:The RPM drop is triggered by a timer or temp switch in the engine and isn't affected by oil other than how hard it is for the motor to start. Everything I've ever driven has been temperature-based only. In the summer, my MS3 won't even fast-idle at all, but in the winter it will do it for a good long while. And yeah, oil would only theoretically impact this if somehow 5w30 had a massively higher specific heat than 0w20 (which I highly doubt). bull3964 posted:They can't deny warrany coverage over using non-toyota/subaru branded oil. However, they do have wiggle room out of warranty coverage if you use a weight outside of their spec. So, I would check the owner's manual first and see if it's a range that's given or if they are saying 0w20 only. Weight and any specific labels; GM, VW, and BMW I know have all put out their own standards for oil and if Bob's Discount Sin-Thetic doesn't have GM's seal of approval, even if it is a synthetic oil and the correct grade, they can (and probably will) deny a claim based on that. I think it can actually make using a Royal Purple or Amsoil a bit tricky since I don't think those oils earn those labels nearly as quickly as larger players like Pennzoil, Castrol, or Mobil.
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Jan 17, 2013 01:03
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Like I said, I don't know anything about oil. I feel like motor oils and fluids could use their own megathead because there is so much misinformation out there. I just want to get the good poo poo, I don't necessarily care what the name on the bottle is.
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Jan 17, 2013 03:19
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j3rkstore posted:I'll be using Penzoil Platinum 0w-20. I couldn't find a spec sheet on Royal Purple but have always shied away from it. Pennzoil Platinum is great, underrated oil. AMSoil is also great, but expensive if you plan on changing more often than ~10k mile intervals. Royal Purple sucks, shears a lot, and burns up in high-revving engines.
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Jan 17, 2013 03:25
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Devyl posted:I recommend Royal Purple or Castrol. If you have the money for it, Royal Purple is the way to go in my book. Same. I've had a history of good experience with it. j3rkstore posted:I'll be using Penzoil Platinum 0w-20. I couldn't find a spec sheet on Royal Purple but have always shied away from it. Oldie but a goodie: http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf and http://www.blackstone-labs.com/which-oil-to-use.php enojy posted:Pennzoil Platinum is great, underrated oil. AMSoil is also great, but expensive if you plan on changing more often than ~10k mile intervals. Royal Purple sucks, shears a lot, and burns up in high-revving engines. Please don't post something like this without actual information to back it up. Anecdotally I've used RP in a few high revving engines and haven't had an issue yet. I plan to use it in my BRZ and have it analyzed by blackstone in order to figure out how long it'll last between changes.
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Jan 17, 2013 05:32
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kimbo305 posted:No, I think handling is everything that contributes to fast lap times for a given car weight, power, and tire size. It doesn't account for how well the car tells you what it's doing. Colin Chapman would have a shitfit if you said that to him No, handling is best defined as the point where grip runs out, does the car want to kill you? If it does, it's a bad handler. If it's a delight, it's a good one. It's got nothing to do with lap times and all to do with how the car dances. And I've noted some think how a car talks to you isn't about handling. Wrong. If a car is talking to you and does it well, it's almost certainly a good handling car, the two are in fact very much related. NONE of that has anything to do with skidpan numbers, lap times etc. You jump into a Lotus Cortina, it's still a hell of a honey to drive and a wonderful handling thing despite it's age. It will not put down numbers but it's still a hell of car to throw into a corner backwards. Datsun 1600, Classic Minis - all old, all still good handling cars. A 1600 might not put 1G down but you can steer it on the throttle. THAT's handling. If a car dont talk, the chassis is almost certainly going to be poo poo when the grip is gone.
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Jan 17, 2013 10:30
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Cat Terrist posted:No, handling is best defined as the point where grip runs out, does the car want to kill you? If it does, it's a bad handler. quote:And I've noted some think how a car talks to you isn't about handling. Wrong. If a car is talking to you and does it well, it's almost certainly a good handling car, the two are in fact very much related. At the extreme, then, we could rate each car's handling by how well it performs when Ayrton Senna gets behind the wheel. There's no faults in the driver, and he's certainly driving at the grip limit, so cars with worse handling are those that can't be coaxed to go fast under his command. I think you're right, in that usually cars that handle well will also be enjoyable to drive and communicate easily to the driver. But there will be other cars that go very fast but have 'spooky' feedback.
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Jan 17, 2013 13:44
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And you have cars with tons of mechanical grip and oodles of power, but they just feel completely numb when you drive them hard. Chris Harris actually made a great point in his brand-new Toyobaru vs. used 350Z comparison video. Both are competent sports cars, but while the Toyobaru just gets better and better the harder you push it all the way up to 10/10, the 350Z reaches a point around 8/10 or 9/10 where it just isn't enjoyable to push it any further. To me, that's an example of how the Toyobaru is the better handling car, despite being down on power and grip.
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Jan 17, 2013 14:29
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KozmoNaut posted:And you have cars with tons of mechanical grip and oodles of power, but they just feel completely numb when you drive them hard. Accessibility of performance isn't necessarily an indicator of handling, just fun. Unless youre a pro at some point a car will be more capable than you. The BRZ is way more easy and fun to drive up to and at the limit than my S2000 because it does what you tell it in any situation and doesnt bite, but I wouldn't say it's a better handler.
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Jan 17, 2013 15:58
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Just got off the phone with the local Toyota service department and apparently the Toyota branded synthetic is just rebadged Mobil oil.
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Jan 17, 2013 17:15
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Muffinpox posted:Accessibility of performance isn't necessarily an indicator of handling, just fun. Unless youre a pro at some point a car will be more capable than you. The BRZ is way more easy and fun to drive up to and at the limit than my S2000 because it does what you tell it in any situation and doesnt bite, but I wouldn't say it's a better handler. That's precisely what I consider good handling; lots of feedback, predictable at the limit and makes its power easy to access and use. There's also a difference between a car having good handling and a car being highly capable. The capable car may require a master at the wheel to deliver, but when it does, it does so in a big way. On the other hand, the good handling car is maybe not as outright capable and has lower specs on paper, but it's intuitive, rewarding and fun to drive, even when if you're not a master pushing it beyond 10/10. And yes, there is definitely such a thing as too much power, or at least too aggressive power delivery.
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Jan 17, 2013 17:32
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Supertech for life! Doesn't great handling just mean that the car goes where you expect it to go how you expected it to get there? Unexpectedness makes the handling bad. I think good feedback contributes to knowing how the car is going to behave, and is correlated to "handling". I personally think 1976 Lincoln continentals handle great but they don't have any performance.
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Jan 17, 2013 17:43
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http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/id/2876/pageid/5686/project-scion-fr-s-part-4-exhaust-and-tuning-frustrations.aspx MotoIQ discussing tuning the motor to deal with octane. And how much tuning potential awaits as the ECU is figured out.
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Jan 17, 2013 17:59
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Elephanthead posted:Supertech for life! Confession: my E46 burned so much goddamn oil I just started putting in $3/quart supertech (walmart) full synth. Hey if its good enough for a 'vette it should be fine right guys?
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Jan 17, 2013 20:01
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Devyl posted:You should have. The owner's manual states 93 octane must be used, but 91 octane can be used in a pinch if 93 isn't available. Welp, good thing I didn't buy one. Can't get 93 octane anywhere in the city as far as I know; certainly not at any of my regular gas stations.
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Jan 18, 2013 00:47
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PT6A posted:Welp, good thing I didn't buy one. Can't get 93 octane anywhere in the city as far as I know; certainly not at any of my regular gas stations. Calgary is up at 3500ft. You don't need 93, you'd be fine on 91. Density of air at sea level - 1.27ish kg/m^3 Density of air at 1000m (~3500ft) - 1.05ish kg/m^3 I'm too lazy to check the actual numbers, those are my best guess based on what I remember from fluids courses. Basically, the density of the air is down somewhere around 15-20%, and correspondingly your compression will drop as well, resulting in lower octane requirements. e: This assumes same air temperature & relative humidity is ~20C and 0%RH at both altitudes. Temperature plays a larger effect than RH. TrueChaos fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 00:55
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TrueChaos posted:Calgary is up at 3500ft. You don't need 93, you'd be fine on 91. Indeed - that's why they don't sell 93 here. Husky and Petro-Canada have ethanol blended 94 however. The STI also says you should put 93 in it and people are fine on 91. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 00:57
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