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I would hope that Repconn, at least, would play out quite differently. Also, while they aren't uncommon, they do seem subject to a decent amount of prejudice and aren't really seen higher in society. I can't imagine the Legion hangs out with Ghouls too much, and they seem consigned to the lower ranks of NCR citizenry. I'd hope that there were decent amounts of dialogue changes if they did add in the ability to be a ghoul.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:07
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Lord Lambeth posted:They would have to even acknowledge it really. Maybe Doc Mitchell could mention it at the beginning but ghouls aren't exactly uncommon. You are vastly underestimating the changes - both mechanically and in the script - that you'd need to make ghouls work. Repconn is the obvious example, but there are loads and loads of small things that make no sense when the PC is a ghoul - like House offering you immortality.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:11
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Also being immune to radiation would trivialize a bunch of stuff.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:25
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Actually, radiation is such a non issue in this game that the immunity wouldn't change much beside that one vault. Hell, I'd consider radiation immunity to be a disadvantage. But then again, I love the Rad Child perk.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:29
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A 'game-over' with ending slides if you decide to leave with the Repconn ghouls would be awesome.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:48
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First-time New Vegas player; I've reached the point of no return in the plot but haven't advanced past that, having taken time to go through Dead Money & Old World Blues. About to start Honest Hearts. OP says Lonesome Road brings the story full circle; do I need to finish the final original mission(s) to understand what's going on?
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Jan 21, 2013 20:53
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Nah. If anything Lonesome Road makes more sense if you play it before the end of the game.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:57
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oldskool posted:First-time New Vegas player; I've reached the point of no return in the plot but haven't advanced past that, having taken time to go through Dead Money & Old World Blues. About to start Honest Hearts. Lonesome Road is less about the Mojave and more about the Courier. It's perfectly good without even really touching the main game. It doesn't so much as rely on the main quest as it does build on it and the lore. All of the DLC does this really. Lord Lambeth posted:They would have to even acknowledge it really. Maybe Doc Mitchell could mention it at the beginning but ghouls aren't exactly uncommon. To do it properly, you'd need a lot more than 'so you're a ghoul! <normal conversation>.' That's poorly done. Mutants are generally unpopular and unloved in the wastes. Which is part of why the Repconn ghouls want to leave. And most people aren't exactly attracted to ghouls, so you'd have to scratch a lot of that flirty dialog, or change how it comes out, rather drastically. "You're a ghoul! <life as normal>" is a very, very lazy way of going about it.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:14
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To do it I think you'd need to treat it as something that has disadvantages. Specifically, certain quest-givers would not deal with you at all unless you passed a VERY high speech check or something, perhaps not even then. (Then it'd be like Stupid Dialogue run in Fallout 2, where you're so dumb half the people don't give you quests).
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Jan 21, 2013 21:25
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SpookyLizard posted:And most people aren't exactly attracted to ghouls, so you'd have to scratch a lot of that flirty dialog, or change how it comes out, rather drastically.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:26
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Ravenfood posted:I would hope that Repconn, at least, would play out quite differently. Also, while they aren't uncommon, they do seem subject to a decent amount of prejudice and aren't really seen higher in society. I can't imagine the Legion hangs out with Ghouls too much, and they seem consigned to the lower ranks of NCR citizenry. I'd hope that there were decent amounts of dialogue changes if they did add in the ability to be a ghoul. I think Raul makes a comment to the effect that the Legion army doesn't exactly pal around with Ghouls, but I don't think that they go out of their way to slaughter them any more than smoothskins. Though Caesar is pragmatic enough to not let his own philosophy get in the way of practical concerns, so that could actually be a cool angle. Have Caesar and Vulpes willing to use you as an errand boy while Lanius and some of the other guys who just like to shout and hit things are pretty openly hostile. Would put a whole new spin on Et Tumor, Brute. Coulda done a pretty similar thing for Lady Courier too.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:34
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ClearAirTurbulence posted:My main complaint about Lonesome Road is not it's linearity, that's fine and fits with the theme. It's that it forces you to perform an action that most of the characters I'd role play would not do to progress. My guy who's smart, relatively good, and tries to consider the consequences of his actions isn't going to launch a nuclear missile with no idea of where it would go. That's a pretty big deal, and I know it fits with the theme, that your actions can have unintended consequences and to show how far you'll go to solve a mystery, but when you pay for content and you say "I won't go that far to find out what's waiting for me at the end" you're stuck either missing content, starting over with a new character who doesn't give a poo poo about blindly launching missiles, or breaking character and saying "It's just a game" to continue. I think that could have been solved if there was a note on a terminal somewhere stating that Ulysses or somebody had reprogrammed that silo to launch the nuke at an uninhabited area. It's still incredibly reckless considering what a high Science character could know about fallout (yeah, the nuke might not kill anyone, but it will probably shave years off the lives of thousands of people downwind) but it would make it a bit easier to progress without breaking immersion. It's a button in front of a door, and you want to get into that door... so you press the button. But surprise! You've also launched a nuke! For better or worse, it's illustrating the whole moral argument Ulysses is making about culpability and responsibility.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:47
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^^: Yeah that's exactly it. You're a walking disaster area.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:48
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Eiba posted:The thing about that bit is, unless I'm misremembering, you have absolutely no reason to believe that that button will launch a nuke. It's also sort of a reenactment of sorts, iirc? Doesn't Ulysses blame the Courier for the Divide because you carried some Old World thing there that caused the nukes to go off in their silos?
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Jan 21, 2013 21:57
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Isn't it implied somewhere that most Veteran Rangers are Ghouls?
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Jan 21, 2013 22:08
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HitTheTargets posted:Isn't it implied somewhere that most Veteran Rangers are Ghouls? Under their masks, you mean? I know there's one Ranger Station with several ghoul rangers. Right next to some radioactive craters, so it makes sense they'd be put there.
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Jan 21, 2013 22:09
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HitTheTargets posted:Isn't it implied somewhere that most Veteran Rangers are Ghouls?
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Jan 21, 2013 22:18
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rope kid posted:No, but there are a disproportionately high number of ghoul VRs. When I created the VR templates, I shifted the numbers so there were a significant number of ghouls. Among ordinary/patrol Rangers, there were supposed to be ghoul Rangers at Ranger Station Echo and a super mutant Ranger at Ranger Station Foxtrot, but I think those were cut for some reason. Ghoul rangers are still there, if memory and wiki serve, but the mutant isn't.
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Jan 21, 2013 22:46
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Sheen Sheen posted:This is more or less the same approach that all the major factions take--"You're on my side, or you're in the way." If you get all the factions to ally with whichever horse you're backing, they get rewarded in the end. If not, then they get hosed. House does this to the Kings. Hell, the Legion does it to the people who actually help them! I slightly disagree, though I freely admit I'm biased towards House. The Kings are an unfriendly gang living literally on House's doorstep. That's a bit different from the NCR attacking a bunch of unarmed doctors. The NCR talks a good game, but unless the Jesus-Courier is on their rear end about it, they're just as greedy as Caesar. Hell, they even attack the Khans if the Courier gets them to ally with the NCR. Again, I'm not saying that House is pure good or anything, but I think the circumstances of his victory can lead to the best outcome for everybody involved.
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Jan 21, 2013 22:57
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What specifically triggers Ranger Station Charlie getting sacked?
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Jan 21, 2013 23:01
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Speedball posted:What specifically triggers Ranger Station Charlie getting sacked? Talking to Ranger Andy in Novac and receiving his quest to check on the station.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:05
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Hey I'm going to do my first run of most of the DLCs (all but Dead Money) using a fresh character, is choosing melee weapons going to negatively affect my experience or am I safe to choose that?
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Jan 21, 2013 23:07
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Man, the NCR must hold a really long grudge about the Khans being dicks back in 2161.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:09
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SpookyLizard posted:To do it properly, you'd need a lot more than 'so you're a ghoul! <normal conversation>.' That's poorly done. Mutants are generally unpopular and unloved in the wastes. Which is part of why the Repconn ghouls want to leave. And most people aren't exactly attracted to ghouls, so you'd have to scratch a lot of that flirty dialog, or change how it comes out, rather drastically. "You're a ghoul! <life as normal>" is a very, very lazy way of going about it. I could see Bethesda adding a ghoul option to Fallout 4. Not because they would go through the steps to make it fully integrated or anything, but much like the ostracized beast races in the Elder Scrolls, I could see them adding it, changing some early flavor dialogue in the intro and starter town, then having nobody mention it ever again. Still, an actual fully integrated race choice would be great in a Fallout game. Super mutants could get a penalty to INT but a huge boost to STR and END, ghouls could get a penalty to CHA but radiation immunity, both would have automatic starting negative disposition towards most settlements and have to 'prove' themselves...it would be great. Or comedy option: talking deathclaw 
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Jan 21, 2013 23:16
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SpookyLizard posted:Man, the NCR must hold a really long grudge about the Khans being dicks back in 2161. Well they did kidnap Tandi.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:18
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Democrazy posted:Hey I'm going to do my first run of most of the DLCs (all but Dead Money) using a fresh character, is choosing melee weapons going to negatively affect my experience or am I safe to choose that? Melee will make OWB a cakewalk. You'll see.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:18
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Democrazy posted:Hey I'm going to do my first run of most of the DLCs (all but Dead Money) using a fresh character, is choosing melee weapons going to negatively affect my experience or am I safe to choose that? You could do worse than that, though you may also want to put enough points into Unarmed to unlock the Piercing Strike perk (it negates 15 Damage Threshhold on both melee weapon and unarmed strikes). There's some pretty decent melee weapons to be sure. Including in Dead Money so you may want to give that a shot too! EDIT: Melee specialists also synergize well with stealthy characters. If you want to stealthily melee someone, it's silent and even better, does not impact your faction reputation. This is the ideal way to get the Armed for Bear Challenge. Speedball fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 23:19
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Byzantine posted:I slightly disagree, though I freely admit I'm biased towards House. The Kings are an unfriendly gang living literally on House's doorstep. That's a bit different from the NCR attacking a bunch of unarmed doctors. House kills the Kings to the last man unless they actively start a war with people he's supposedly trying to lure to his casinos. House is a prick. Meanwhile, the NCR gives the followers the boot, but they don't actively attack them. Considering the Followers encourage outright seditious behavior and at least one of their members murdered NCR troops to cover up stealing from them. Not saying that the NCR's in the right there, but they're still not in House's league for dickery. And the Khans? Really? The Khans have been public enemy number 1 for the NCR since before they were founded, and every time they've tangled 1) NCR has stomped them into the ground 2) The Khans come back from apparent total extermination to give the NCR a hard time again. If the Kings don't get a buy, the Khans sure as hell shouldn't. If someone's not in the Kahns anymore, NCR doesn't hold a grudge, and if someone still is a Kahn, they're part of a culture that's been at war with the NCR more or less forever. This instance is even supporting the Fiends and the Legion, causing a lot of deaths for the NCR, civilian and military alike. They're a bunch of child beating, drug dealing assholes, and I can't say their "culture" biting it is any loss to the Mojave. Don't get me wrong, NCR behavior towards them if they're allies isn't right, but it's still nicer than what the Khans do every time the situation is reversed.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:19
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Speedball posted:You could do worse than that, though you may also want to put enough points into Unarmed to unlock the Piercing Strike perk (it negates 15 Damage Threshhold on both melee weapon and unarmed strikes). There's some pretty decent melee weapons to be sure. Including in Dead Money so you may want to give that a shot too! I meant as in I already played Dead Money and Dean didn't turn on me. Cosmic knife superheated here I come fuckers.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:27
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Oh then have fun! There's even some robot-damaging melee weapons to have fun with in OWB.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:29
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Democrazy posted:Well they did kidnap Tandi. Well yeah, that's what I was referring to. NCR are still excessive dicks to them. The NCR is somewhat dedicated to wiping out the Khans, seemingly out of habit at this point. It's a hugely unfair fight since the NCR is a loving country and the Khans are basically gang and they. Are also planning on not merely beating them but killing them all.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:29
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SpookyLizard posted:Man, the NCR must hold a really long grudge about the Khans being dicks back in 2161. It's only recently that they've been not dicks. Fallout 1: Raider gang in the middle of the desert. Kidnapped the eventual founding mother of the NCR. Dicks. Fallout 2: Reduced to like one guy, who created a new raider gang in the ruins of Vault 15, who used their predation on local trade to deceive and oppress a poor outcasts' community. Still dicks. pre-New Vegas: Fled to the Mojave. Most of these buy into the Khans' former glory or whatever, and also they probably had no idea the gang was originally raiders. (Note that being raiders now doesn't help their case any.) But then the NCR come in, wreck everything and ruin their lives. They don't know the people under their own banner started it, so they act in what they probably think is self-defense (until they take the war to NCR civilians, anyway, which does merit some retribution) and then they get pushed across the Mojave, massacred, and back across the Mojave again. At this point they're backing the NCR's mortal rival, but that's pretty much because they think that gently caress the NCR. But this is why I always have them seek out their own destiny: I figure they've been punished enough and I'm not big on scorched-earth tactics anyway, and they probably won't be such colossal assholes without the NCR around. No matter what the outcome of the Mojave campaign I doubt the NCR's going to make it up to Wyoming or Montana anytime soon - and if they do, either the Khans will have forgotten the NCR thing (again) or the NCR will be the one that deserves it. Possibly both. On the other hand, it's probably only that I'm a big goddamn softie that keeps me from wiping out the Khans myself. Still better than leaving them to the mercy of one of the major factions. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 23:34
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SpookyLizard posted:NCR are still excessive dicks to them. The NCR is somewhat dedicated to wiping out the Khans, seemingly out of habit at this point. It's a hugely unfair fight since the NCR is a loving country and the Khans are basically gang and they. Are also planning on not merely beating them but killing them all. The Great Khans are a drugged up band of raiders who tried to push the NCR, got a firm shove back from the NCR in reply and now spend their days crying over getting shoved. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 00:00
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Raygereio posted:An unfair fight? Is the NCR also being a dick for attacking the Fiends? Who are generally being unpleasant because the NCR liberally murdered the poo poo out of their women and children at Bitter Springs. Never mind that there are alternatives to killing the poo poo out of each other, which is the sort of thing the NCR should try since they are supposed to be the "good guys".
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Jan 22, 2013 00:12
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SpookyLizard posted:Well yeah, that's what I was referring to. NCR are still excessive dicks to them. The NCR is somewhat dedicated to wiping out the Khans, seemingly out of habit at this point. It's a hugely unfair fight since the NCR is a loving country and the Khans are basically gang and they. Are also planning on not merely beating them but killing them all. Have you talked to Bitter-Root about the Khans. He's got some...interesting insider views on then and how messed up they are. Not to mention that they're propping up the Fiends, who are by far the most evil gang in the game. I've been listening to the Lonesome Drifter's songs today, shame they don't play on the radio. Regardless, good job with what you did there, J. Sawyer/Rope Kid. Oh, and of we're talking about the evil/good characters in the game, Mitchell is the least selfish character in the Mojave. 
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Jan 22, 2013 00:14
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chiasaur11 posted:If the Kings don't get a buy, the Khans sure as hell shouldn't. Not saying they should, only pointing out that the NCR isn't above stabbing their allies in the back either. House is totally a dick, but he is the least dickish of basically everybody/group but the Followers.
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Jan 22, 2013 00:19
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Let's face it: everyone's an rear end in a top hat some of the time in this game.
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Jan 22, 2013 00:24
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SpookyLizard posted:Who are generally being unpleasant because the NCR liberally murdered the poo poo out of their women and children at Bitter Springs. Never mind that there are alternatives to killing the poo poo out of each other, which is the sort of thing the NCR should try since they are supposed to be the "good guys".
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Jan 22, 2013 00:28
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I didn't consider all the extra dialogue Ghouls would require but it makes sense now that they aren't in the game considering. I just think Ghouls are just the bee's knees. I would love a pulpy crime noir detective story with a Ghoul PI in a super detailed New Reno. Fallouts are always about wide reaching events and issues but I think it'd be cool to have something super small-scale and personal, that in the grand scheme of things may or may not actually matter. I think that'd be cool. Then again, I also enjoyed the metro tunnels in Fallout 3.
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Jan 22, 2013 00:29
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A game where you are a ghoul by default might swing it, then. Everyone would hate you and you'd have to work hard to earn anyone's trust. The only problem there would be radiation turning from a hazard into a benefit, but I can imagine there being some other way of keeping environmental hazards around. Sierra Madre poison clouds, for example. Maybe you sunburn easily and can't soak up too much bright light at once, or your crusty skin dehydrates easily and you need to alway have some form of water to drink (so just one aspect of Hardcore Mode would always be on, effectively).
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Jan 22, 2013 00:39
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