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escape artist posted:You're thinking of Johnny. He was given this advice by two elder heroin addicts, and well... and it's slamming poo poo like that. Sorry, I'm a Wire savant... and sure enough, Bubbles and the unnamed elder heroin addict were drat right. They even used the same wording-- if not the same advice verbatim-- when speaking to him. Sadly, they were both right. Oh believe me, I know. Bubs says it to him the first time he and Johnny shoot up together after the photocopy dollar scheme, I think. It was just a joke about Andre Royo's character having a gun and dying  But I guess my wording was off anyway :PAlso, season 2 theme is the best cause I love Tom Waits but season 4 is the most haunting because of the children aspect, of course.
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Jan 25, 2013 21:11
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Just noticed that Rawls wears a wedding ring, at least in the first season. And he mentions having a kid. Huh. I really wish we learned more about his sexuality. SlimWhiskey fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jan 25, 2013 |
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Jan 25, 2013 22:36
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SlimWhiskey posted:Just noticed that Rawls wears a wedding ring, at least in the first season. And he mentions having a kid. Huh. I really wish we learned more about his sexuality. I always figured it was just a minor detail that never got more attention because it doesn't change anything to the story except for adding some sad irony to some of his comments. That said, I've always wondered if underneath the macho hardass lies a nice, wonderful gay man in the same way that under the dismissive, statistics-obsessed Major lies a pretty effective street detective.
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Jan 25, 2013 22:48
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You guys realize there is such a thing as bisexuality, right?
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Jan 26, 2013 00:42
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That, too ^^^Parachute Underwear posted:I always figured it was just a minor detail that never got more attention because it doesn't change anything to the story except for adding some sad irony to some of his comments. He could also be a macho hardass gay dude. Just cause he was gay/bisexual doesn't make him wonderful.
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Jan 26, 2013 00:46
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I'm bisexual; I'll still watch sports with you, drink you under the table and beat your rear end if I have to, though I'd prefer not. Nobody had a clue I was not heterosexual until I came out. Because I "acted straight"... It wasn't acting, it was how I am. Not everybody acts like Christopher Lowell. And for the record, the original Tom Waits version is untouchable, and Steve Earle's version is the worst. Which is unfortunate, because Steve Earle is a great musician, but it sounds like he made all the music [for Season 5] on one of those computer programs.
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Jan 26, 2013 00:52
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Rawls wears a ring, has pictures of himself, a kid, and an older woman on his desk. I noticed it in my rewatch of episode... S1E6? When McNulty is giving him the breaks in the cases he and Bunk have been working. Rawls may be bisexual, or he may be just married to fit in. Regardless of that, Rawls is probably a hardass no matter where he is. Like McNulty is always McNulty where ever he is.
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Jan 26, 2013 00:56
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SpookyLizard posted:Rawls wears a ring, has pictures of himself, a kid, and an older woman on his desk. I noticed it in my rewatch of episode... S1E6? When McNulty is giving him the breaks in the cases he and Bunk have been working. Rawls may be bisexual, or he may be just married to fit in. Regardless of that, Rawls is probably a hardass no matter where he is. Like McNulty is always McNulty where ever he is. I like men but that doesn't mean I don't want a wife and kids. This kind of ambiguity is always why I wish they explored Rawls' character just a little more... not expose him to the world, as I thought would happen in a newspaper article in Season 5... just for the viewer's sake. Also, remember, he's probably the only white guy to toss around the word "friend of the family", yet when we see him, he's in a primarily black gay bar. Lends credence to the "he was trying to throw people off the trail" theory. Maybe he was just in denial himself. From my own experience, the person's opinion you dread the most, regarding your non-heterosexuality... is you.
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Jan 26, 2013 01:02
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escape artist posted:I like men but that doesn't mean I don't want a wife and kids. This kind of ambiguity is always why I wish they explored Rawls' character just a little more... not expose him to the world, as I thought would happen in a newspaper article in Season 5... just for the viewer's sake. I wonder if David Simon or any one else from the show ever thought the show would be discussed to this extent, or on subjects as wide ranging as this.
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Jan 26, 2013 01:13
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GreenCard78 posted:That, too ^^^ Sorry, I didn't really mean 'wonderful' as in flamboyant/cutesy or whatever. I guess not-an-rear end in a top hat/normal is what I meant. Overcompensation via acting like a huge rear end in a top hat tough guy. escape artist posted:Also, remember, he's probably the only white guy to toss around the word "friend of the family" I think Nick does more than once, though he usually says "project niggers."
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Jan 26, 2013 01:21
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Coulda swore Ziggy said it too after Cheese took Princess, his Camaro. e: yep, season 2, episode 5- "Undertow" That whole opening sequence is hilarious. "Two thou. For this? poo poo, not even a black man could style that poo poo!" Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jan 26, 2013 |
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Jan 26, 2013 01:37
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Yup, you guys are right about the Sobotka youths... I was mistaken. I haven't seen those episodes in a long, long time.Parachute Underwear posted:
escape artist fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jan 26, 2013 |
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Jan 26, 2013 01:40
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Parachute Underwear posted:That said, I've always wondered if underneath the macho hardass lies a nice, wonderful gay man in the same way that under the dismissive, statistics-obsessed Major lies a pretty effective street detective. There are plenty of rear end in a top hat gays. I figured Rawls was just one of them. Or an rear end in a top hat bisexual.
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Jan 26, 2013 01:43
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The Rawls gay thing makes me think of a dude I grew up with's dad. He wasn't a cop but he was a real tough dude, made the boys do manly stuff and work out at a young age, taught them to fight, didn't take any poo poo but turned out to be seeing dudes on the side. I kind of wish they followed through on that. Maybe it was an idea for a subplot that just never came around? There is plenty of poo poo that viewers wish they expanded on but for whatever reason they didn't.
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Jan 26, 2013 01:49
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I thought just the shot of Rawls at the gay bar was enough. Along with the picture of the family and the wedding ring, it's just enough detail for the viewer to infer what's up with that guy. Like the quick shots of Poot working at Foot Locker or the dock workers passing a bottle around at the homeless camp.
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Jan 26, 2013 01:53
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GreenCard78 posted:The Rawls gay thing makes me think of a dude I grew up with's dad. He wasn't a cop but he was a real tough dude, made the boys do manly stuff and work out at a young age, taught them to fight, didn't take any poo poo but turned out to be seeing dudes on the side. DarkCrawler posted:There are plenty of rear end in a top hat gays. I figured Rawls was just one of them. Yep. Lots of people like to stereotype, but there are douche bags of every size, shape, color, sexuality... That's why the "gay best friend whose full of wisdom and pithy quips" is demeaning to non-heterosexuals, even though you'll find it in so many TV shows and movies. That's just one of the billion reasons I appreciate The Wire-- there's nothing like that. I even had to explain to my lesbian friend how Kima was not a "stereotypical dyke" (her words). Granted, I only had Season 1 to work with, because I didn't want to spoil anything in the latter seasons, but I was basically referencing how hers and Cheryl's relationship could mirror any relationship, gay, straight... whatever. vvv: drat right. escape artist fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jan 26, 2013 |
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Jan 26, 2013 01:56
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And Kima's relationship breaking down (mirroring McNulty's disastrous marriage) was a good way of showing that whether you are gay or straight is immaterial - sometimes people just aren't ready to be parents or husbands/wives, and that police work can have a straining effect on a relationship regardless of the genders of the people involved.
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Jan 26, 2013 02:21
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I just wanted to pointed out people come in all shapes and types.  Kima's backstory could have been interesting. There's a disproportionate number of black women who are lesbians in the Baltimore area. Any of the local sociology stuff I've seen done it usually relate it to a lack of men in the community and the much, much larger than average male:female ratio in the area as a whole which is primarily focused in the large black population in the area. They hit the head on the nail with many of these characters stories.
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Jan 26, 2013 02:46
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There's even a bit in one of the commentaries where David Simon remarks on how the only 'functional' relationship we see in Season 1 was the gay couple.
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Jan 26, 2013 02:51
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GreenCard78 posted:I just wanted to pointed out people come in all shapes and types. Well, remember, Kima tried to become a paralegal or something in the law-office field. She just said to Cheryl that she didn't have a passion for it, unlike being a police. SpookyLizard posted:There's even a bit in one of the commentaries where David Simon remarks on how the only 'functional' relationship we see in Season 1 was the gay couple.
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Jan 26, 2013 05:23
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escape artist posted:Well, remember, Kima tried to become a paralegal or something in the law-office field. She just said to Cheryl that she didn't have a passion for it, unlike being a police. Yeah, but Brandon and Omar don't exactly last since Brandon doesn't make it halfway into the season. We see Kima's relationship evolve over the seasons until it also cracks. But I think the commentary is just talking about in regards to season one. McNulty's is hosed, the Bunk sleeps around, both of Dee's relationships are hosed. I think by the end of the first season the only realtionship we've seen that's in a good or stable state is Kima's. Actually I think her girlfriend wanted Kima to become a full on lawyer. Kima Greggs Esquire.
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Jan 26, 2013 06:10
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Freamon and Shardene seemed to work out okay, despite the characters' age difference being a little creepy.
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Jan 26, 2013 08:08
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SpookyLizard posted:Actually I think her girlfriend wanted Kima to become a full on lawyer. Kima Greggs Esquire. Kima was initially Daniels' protege, and it's interesting that Daniels' wife also wanted him to be a lawyer (he already had his degree, from memory, and I think he just had to sit the Bar Exam?) though I'm guessing,"Do something that doesn't involve getting shot at" isn't an exactly uncommon reaction for police officer's significant others. Both resist because both want to remain police, and like McNulty Daniels is basically forced out of the force at the end but seems happy enough in his new life. I was always amused that Daniels ends up exactly where his ex-wife always wanted him to be, and she was right that he WAS much happier in the role, but that in the process he basically ruined his personal and professional life, though it all works out thanks to his relationship with Pearlman. McNulty's only saving grace is probably going to be Beadie, so long as he is able to get back to that happy place he found himself over most of season 4. Meanwhile, out of the three of them the one who stays in the job she loves is probably going to face the most troubling/problematic life as Kima has to deal with the politics of her association with McNulty, Freamon and Daniels, as well as the bullshit of the bureaucracy. Meanwhile, the Bunk keeps on keeping on 
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Jan 26, 2013 08:25
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Actually, IIRC correctly, Cheryl was the one who wanted to be a lawyer (remember Kima said something to Cheryl about 'passing the bar'), and I believe Marla wanted Daniels to climb the career ladder, all the way to the top rung of the police chain of command. Also, don't forget, Kima said to Lester that she is "loving" her spot in homicide, and compared to most police jobs, that is a relatively safe one. Feel free to correct me, but I ask that you cite an episode number, just because I consider myself to be a Wire scholar. watt par posted:Freamon and Shardene seemed to work out okay, despite the characters' age difference being a little creepy. I don't find it creepy because of two things: 1) She had a genuine attraction to Lester 2) Older men with younger women are not unusual pairings 3) (I lied, I said two but meant three) Shardene seemed happier than she ever was being Lester's significant other. SpookyLizard posted:Yeah, but Brandon and Omar don't exactly last since Brandon doesn't make it halfway into the season. We see Kima's relationship evolve over the seasons until it also cracks. But I think the commentary is just talking about in regards to season one. McNulty's is hosed, the Bunk sleeps around, both of Dee's relationships are hosed. I think by the end of the first season the only realtionship we've seen that's in a good or stable state is Kima's. Still though, Brandon and Omar were deeply in love. Another example of non-heterosexual relationships working out was Omar and Dante-- since trust (giving Omar's name to Mouzone, contrast that with Brandon being tortured to death, showed his devotion to Omar) escape artist fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jan 26, 2013 |
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Jan 26, 2013 09:25
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I think you guys are reading too much into the Rawls bar scene. The guy just wanted a quiet drink.
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Jan 26, 2013 09:36
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MrBling posted:I think you guys are reading too much into the Rawls bar scene. While I appreciate your joke, don't forget Lester's greatest line of all: "All the pieces matter." This show never had a scene that was utterly useless.
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Jan 26, 2013 09:45
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escape artist posted:Actually, IIRC correctly, Cheryl was the one who wanted to be a lawyer (remember Kima said something to Cheryl about 'passing the bar'), and I believe Marla wanted Daniels to climb the career ladder, all the way to the top rung of the police chain of command. I definitely remember Kima early in season one (as in within the first 2-3 episodes) complaining about her "homework" studying for her law degree, and Cheryl chiding her because it's something they both "agreed" that Kima wanted to do. Kima is pretty much going along with it to keep Cheryl happy, and Cheryl wants her to get promoted just so she can get off of the street. Wikipedia posted:Greggs lived with her partner Cheryl, a broadcast journalist, and was studying for a law degree from home, having been pressured to do so by Cheryl. Cheryl is looking for stability and safety for the two of them and their eventual family, and Kima really just agrees with everything to avoid confrontation because she doesn't want to change at all. After Kima gets shot, Cheryl demands that she become a "house cat" and only work a desk from now on, and Kima once again goes along with it to avoid a confrontation, but admits during a drunken night out with a couple of other women that she lives for being out there on the frontline. I imagine that her guilt over doing this plays a part in her going along with Cheryl's decision to gets pregnant, probably thinking that a confrontation deferred is a confrontation forever put away. Of course, Cheryl gets pregnant and is all excited about moving on to the next phase of their life, while Kima wants things to stay exactly as they were and only admits it far too late.
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Jan 26, 2013 11:10
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You got me. I'm forgetful. But everything you else was indisputably accurate. It's funny that the kid was another example of something Kima and Cheryl supposedly wanted. Mostly, though, Kima didn't want to disappoint Cheryl-- which I believe is the underlying motivation for both choices.
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Jan 26, 2013 11:14
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Watching season 1, Herc ain't a total rear end in a top hat. His talk with Bodie's grandma is actually pretty touching. He apologizes for cursing at the door and stays there and listens to her, and shakes her hand afterwards. It's the only redeeming scene he has, but raised my opinion of him buy like 200%. Carver just goes out and doesn't apologize for poo poo.
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Jan 27, 2013 04:16
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DarkCrawler posted:Watching season 1, Herc ain't a total rear end in a top hat. His talk with Bodie's grandma is actually pretty touching. He apologizes for cursing at the door and stays there and listens to her, and shakes her hand afterwards. It's the only redeeming scene he has, but raised my opinion of him buy like 200%. Carver just goes out and doesn't apologize for poo poo. But pre-Season 1, we know that Herc has 3 brutality complaints (none sustained, but all true) And during Season 1, he likes to crack heads. Herc never got the talks from Daniels and Colvin like Carver did, though, which helped Carver grow into real police, and into a better person.
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Jan 27, 2013 04:25
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DarkCrawler posted:Watching season 1, Herc ain't a total rear end in a top hat. His talk with Bodie's grandma is actually pretty touching. He apologizes for cursing at the door and stays there and listens to her, and shakes her hand afterwards. It's the only redeeming scene he has, but raised my opinion of him buy like 200%. Carver just goes out and doesn't apologize for poo poo. He also tries being nice to Beadie when he first meets her, for what it's worth. Carv laughs at him for it. Season 2 is seriously so good on a re-watch. Next episode is Frank meeting Ziggy downtown 
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Jan 27, 2013 04:30
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He tries unsuccessfully picking her up after a station meeting. That's what Carver was laughing at him for.
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Jan 27, 2013 04:32
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I've always enjoyed Herc working the phones for Royce, purely out of his own self-interest. "Now not to be offensive, but I can tell from your voice that you are a black woman. And you can probably tell from mine that I'm a white man. And yet here I am supporting the black candidate. That's right, he's just the best man for the job!"
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Jan 27, 2013 04:34
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watt par posted:He tries unsuccessfully picking her up after a station meeting. That's what Carver was laughing at him for. Carver (making fun of Herc's transparent and stupid attempt at picking her up): Hi, I'm Thomas, want some coffee? (while she holds coffee in her hand) Herc: I was going to ask her for her panties to make some soup with, but I thought she'd take it the wrong way Carver: *Horrified look on his face*
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Jan 27, 2013 04:35
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Well yeah, I left out the part that it's to get in her pants.  I always laughed my rear end off at that reply to Carv. Good way to tell him to gently caress off.
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Jan 27, 2013 04:38
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escape artist posted:Actually, IIRC correctly, Cheryl was the one who wanted to be a lawyer (remember Kima said something to Cheryl about 'passing the bar') I think that the thing about "passing the bar" was a dumb little pun that Kima made about Cheryl's new girlfriend becoming a lawyer. Paraphrasing: "The people I work with have a little problem with that. Passing the bar."  EDIT: Season 4, episode 9 "Kima gets a read on the situation as Cheryl says that Kima could stay for dinner, but that they're having people over to celebrate; Nancine says she just passed the bar. Kima says that most of the guys she works with have a problem with that. Nancine's like, 'Huh?' 'Passing the bar,' says Kima." Orb Crabmelt fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 06:07
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escape artist posted:Carver (making fun of Herc's transparent and stupid attempt at picking her up): Hi, I'm Thomas, want some coffee? (while she holds coffee in her hand) This is one of my favorite scenes from the whole series. Herc and Carver were pretty classic all the time. Don't Herc and Carver make good breaks in Seasons 1 and 2? I just remembered Herc figured out the tower stash in S1 after Kima got shot. Also I forgot how adorable it is when McNulty sends his kids to follow Stringer Bell. SpookyLizard fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 06:07
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escape artist posted:West plays in lovely American films... albeit usually bit parts... So take that for what its worth. Parachute Underwear posted:300, Punisher, maybe Centurion and John Carter are the only movies I'd expect most people to have seen him in recently. Exactly - bit parts in, let's face it, not great films. Not that Idris has got the golden touch at picking films, either, but he does way more of them, and no one can deny how awesome Luther is. Jerusalem posted:Check out Appropriate Adult if you get a chance, Dominic West is utterly terrifying in it. I did see this, and he is really, really good in it. And 9 out of 10 Americans will never see it. spite house posted:Idris is the only member of the cast who has real star power though, in the old-school, marquee-idol sense. There's talk about him playing the next James Bond. It'll never happen because racism, unfortunately, but it's a plausible call. I agree, and I also think he would be an amazing Bond, but he's talked about not wanting to be "the Black Bond" and I get that. However, quote:I think this was at least partly by design. Stringer needed to be played by a capital-S Star. This I disagree with. I don't think they thought Idris would be the breakout star he has been. I think the whole point was to cast people that wouldn't necessarily break out. I guess that's my problem right there - Dominic West was the STAR AND CENTRAL CHARACTER of an HBO show. And he achieved little in the American spotlight. Remember that James Gandolfini became a household name. Remember, too, that everyone (who watched this show) remembers Stringer getting got. And Omar. And yet no one really remembers Jimmy McNulty, and no one has seen them on their TV screens since. It's almost like the casting is ALSO a profound commentary on the system.
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Jan 27, 2013 09:43
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YES I KNOW I AM DOUBLE POSTING but I felt like these were separate topics so suck it.GreenCard78 posted:The Rawls gay thing makes me think of a dude I grew up with's dad. He wasn't a cop but he was a real tough dude, made the boys do manly stuff and work out at a young age, taught them to fight, didn't take any poo poo but turned out to be seeing dudes on the side. It always amazes me that we forget that it wasn't so long ago that being out wasn't easy. I still wrestle with this in my daily life - I grew up in Northern California, and I was an open and proud bi-sexual to my friends at 16. I was in my late 20's before I admitted that to my parents - and my Dad had always struck me as homophobic but when I told him shrugged his shoulders and told me he's always suspected. My two closest friends in high school didn't come out until college. But we need to realize that coming out in your teens and 20's is so incredibly new. I was reminded of this over New Years when a dear and old friend now in his mid 40's came out to me as transgendered. He's just now starting to take baby steps toward living his life openly and honestly as a woman. I had to A) Remind myself that he's 10 years older and thus grew up in a different time (even if it doesn't feel that removed) and B) That just 20 years ago what he's seeking to do would have been considered radical. So yeah, when I was 10 and he was 20, he couldn't come out and be himself - a woman. And now he can. And if you think back 30 years ago? The media narrative was that all gay people had AIDS and the one out spoken transgender was Renee Richards, who you only know if you followed tennis, and was barred from playing pro tennis unless she had a hormone test. poo poo, the Stonewall Riots were 43 years ago, and there DRAG QUEENS started a visible movement that has since brought us understanding, marriage equality (in some places but not all), and RuPaul. In short, Rawls? Was totally normal to be on the down low. That should not be shocking to us, but it is, because we have short attention spans. What is shocking, to me, is to realize that The Wire has Rawls, Omar, and Kima as three different and fully fleshed out predominant gay characters on TV, whereas before that you can count Will and Jack from Will and Grace and Willow from Buffy on the one and only gay hand of television.
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Jan 27, 2013 10:00
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chesh posted:("Non-traditional" sexuality stuff) Yeah, and it's even harder for Rawls because not only would coming out kill his job, it would be seen as a weakness by most of his underlings. How often do we hear Omar get derided for his sexuality? But Omar is not part of an institution-- he is the lone ranger-- whereas Rawls very much has to play a certain role within an institution to be effective. And you're spot on about the rapid change of attitude towards non-heterosexuals. It's even happening in the hip-hop and sports world now! I saw a graph somewhere, wish I could find it, that showed roughly a "attitude about same sex couples in Ameica"... and in less than 20 years, the supportive attitude went from very low to very high, and the non-supportive attitude went from very high to very low. And this was measuring from 1990-2010. The graph lines formed an x, showing how the general attitude had been completely reversed, and the bigots were now in the minority. Wish I could find that graph to post it. Wish I could find it just to have it, too. chesh posted:
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Jan 27, 2013 13:19
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