|
ImpAtom posted:The thing is that status effects WERE really useful in older FF games. You pretty much never had to grind if you were willing to at least experiment. It sort of goes hand-in-hand with the falsehood of "you have to grind tons to beat this game" that somehow build up around FF. I think the problem is that a lot of people played their first FF when they were young and stupid. FFs have never really required status effects and buffs/debuffs to win the game, so a lot of people got used to mashing Attack because that's how they played FFIV/VI/VII when they were kids and hey, it worked right? Especially when you have to use Scan or Libra to figure out if your status spell will even work, so if you throw statuses out randomly against a boss like a stupid kid you're just going to think that statuses don't work. Grinding is the same way. When you're a kid you don't think of a clever strategy to beat a boss, if you've figured out killing enemies makes you stronger you just grind. (I'd make an example of Phantasy Star here except that even when I'm an adult I still have to grind to beat that game) So FF gets this reputation as being the RPG series where status effects are useless and you have to grind, and since it's so popular after a bit the reputation just becomes self-sustaining. It even influences other RPGs, so everyone's surprised when an RPG actually requires buffs/debuffs and statues to win. It's less so now that SMT got popular, but it's still pretty common.
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 05:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:20 |
|
|
It's kind of funny that the game with the best status effects is the NES version of FF3 (the DS version can go to hell from what I've seen of it). You have Mini and Toad to neutralize enemies, Warp and Exit to instant-kill dudes, Kill will kill anything around your level, Break 2 works hilariously well, and Death kills anything that isn't undead/boss, no questions asked.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 08:10
|
|
|
Bellmaker posted:It's kind of funny that the game with the best status effects is the NES version of FF3 (the DS version can go to hell from what I've seen of it). You have Mini and Toad to neutralize enemies, Warp and Exit to instant-kill dudes, Kill will kill anything around your level, Break 2 works hilariously well, and Death kills anything that isn't undead/boss, no questions asked. Anyways, I was a kind of impatient kid. Folks always say FF is embodied by the grind, but my childhood FFs were always "exploit timings and spell-splitting until things worked." I got to Asura not even knowing Wall (and I went through the Cave of Monsters without knowing Float), I beat Odin by timing Jump, and everyone already knows my Healer-And-Hero Zeromus story. I beat Plague by casting Stop on my own dudes, not even kidding when I say that's seriously what I thought that spell was for because it never hit anything but my own characters  Same fuckin' deal for FF6, too. I got to the final dungeon where my highest level was in the mid 30s and most characters were in the 20s. I never touched the coliseum because I was intimidated by not being able to control my dudes. I cleared it by doing evasion shenanigans with Celes: Zephyr Cape x2, Force Armor, Force Shield, and a Mystery Veil I think? I didn't even know there was such a thing as Marvel Shoes or Snow Mufflers, nor was I aware of the Magic Evade glitch; all I knew was that I had something like an 80% block and >100% MBlock and I crossed my fingers that the final boss couldn't beat 100+% dodge (he can't). 7, 8, 9, Star Ocean... I was very stubborn, and I never needed buffs or debuffs unless I had that infernal notion of "let's really shame the enemies!" I mean, I knew Haste made you get turns faster, but mechanically realistically, it's never really that much faster. Buffs were kinda disappointing but they always hit so it felt like they were doing something (even if, barring FF7 since they hard halve damage in that one, their defensive boosts were so small that nine times out of ten it was a placebo effect), but I think what really put most folks off of debuffs in the first ten FF games (except apparently FF3) is that they just never hit because they always had painfully bad accuracy before even checking for resistance. They did connect in 8 about half the time and you could stick 'em on your weapons and that was cool, but same story: barring VIT0, they were pretty disappointing. Blind didn't reduce their hit% all that much, most enemies who you'd want to Silence or Berserk had pretty scary physical alternatives (FF9 had this problem too, gently caress the Desert Palace forever), Slow didn't reduce their turn frequency as much as you'd probably like... the older games just had really disappointing math in their status magic, and that was assuming the spells even hit in the first place. FF has always seemed--to me, at least, given my "gently caress it I'm gonna beat this by wit or by motherfucking luck" childhood with it--like the "come up with weird, somewhat exploitative strategies" series than the "gain a million levels and give no fucks" series. That one's Star Ocean 
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 08:44
|
|
|
MarsDragon posted:I think the problem is that a lot of people played their first FF when they were young and stupid. FFs have never really required status effects and buffs/debuffs to win the game, so a lot of people got used to mashing Attack because that's how they played FFIV/VI/VII when they were kids and hey, it worked right? Especially when you have to use Scan or Libra to figure out if your status spell will even work, so if you throw statuses out randomly against a boss like a stupid kid you're just going to think that statuses don't work. I think it's sorta useless to use DoTs and other Status effects, when you can just simply do this in the later games to some degree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOLPCblBr-g It's whatever is the quickest means to an end.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 08:50
|
|
|
Yeah I feel like the big problem with status spells in the FF games is their accuracy is just so bad, a lot of the time it makes it not worth it to try them, plus most powerful enemies are immune to the things anyway outside of a handful. I remember this is the reason why Break Spellblade is so attractive on a Mystic Knight in V, it's probably going to actually hit, whereas the Break spell isn't quite as accurate. I had this same problem last night when I fought Marilith again (and beat it) in XII. I had Ashe's Gambits set up to cast Blind and Slow on Marilith, both of which it's susceptible to, and it took six or seven times to inflict Blind on it and Ashe was never able to put Slow on it despite casting it pretty much the entire fight. It wasted a ton of MP, and didn't really do anything for me. I know there's other tricks like Nihopalaoa + Remedy (but I didn't have that at the time), and debuffs are way more important in XII than most other FF games. Still, when it's that difficult to get a spell to connect with an enemy, is it any wonder most players are going to think they're useless or that the boss is immune to it? At least in XII, "IMMUNE" would come up if you tried to use something against an enemy that was immune to it, but in the older games when that message didn't exist, if you tried to use a status on a boss you were left wondering, did it not work because it missed, or because the boss is immune to it? And so that kind of trains you to not bother with debuffs because you could just be completely wasting your turns.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 19:20
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:The thing is, that training-out of ignoring all your dumb spells? After ten games, it gets to the point where consumers start to expect a certain mechanical experience. It's kinda silly because every game is, well, a different game, but I can understand it. When you buy a Mario game, you don't expect to run into a difficult and mandatory Gradius stage in the middle. Because of the level field/player advantage dichotomy, suddenly bringing in status spells as a major thing is actually really similar to that. I'm not saying it's illogical or wrong or dumb to come in with certain expectations. I'm saying it's illogical AND wrong AND dumb to discover that the long-running problem you were expecting has been fixed, and make out like it's some kind of failure on the game's part.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 19:59
|
|
|
Tempo 119 posted:I'm not saying it's illogical or wrong or dumb to come in with certain expectations. I'm saying it's illogical AND wrong AND dumb to discover that the long-running problem you were expecting has been fixed, and make out like it's some kind of failure on the game's part. It's funny that FF13 started this conversation because that is a game that gives you libra very early on, gives you the info of libra naturally over a few fights if you don't actually want to use it, lets you look up that libra info at any time during a fight, and flat out tells you this information is important because the ai partners will act on it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 20:54
|
|
|
Libra actually being useful is another thing most longtime FF players probably wouldn't expect as Libra traditionally only gives you HP/MP info, sometimes elemental weaknesses, but almost never status vulnerabilities. And that's not even counting the FF games where bosses are straight up "immune" to Libra.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 20:56
|
|
|
Twelve by Pies posted:Libra actually being useful is another thing most longtime FF players probably wouldn't expect as Libra traditionally only gives you HP/MP info, sometimes elemental weaknesses, but almost never status vulnerabilities. And that's not even counting the FF games where bosses are straight up "immune" to Libra. Final Fantasy Dimensions is really bad about this as Libra tells you HP and elemental resistances/weaknesses if applicable. Except for boss fights where it will never tell you the HP so you'll only get to see what its resistances are but not status effects. Which for the vast majority of bosses especially in the endgame is none. So you waste a turn getting to see "HP: ????/????|No Weaknesses"
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 21:03
|
|
|
Twelve by Pies posted:Libra actually being useful is another thing most longtime FF players probably wouldn't expect as Libra traditionally only gives you HP/MP info, sometimes elemental weaknesses, but almost never status vulnerabilities. And that's not even counting the FF games where bosses are straight up "immune" to Libra. It explains this all in game though. And I don't mean like, in the databank or whatever. It is not the games fault if people don't read.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 21:12
|
|
|
Failboattootoot posted:It explains this all in game though. And I don't mean like, in the databank or whatever. It is not the games fault if people don't read. Maybe 30 hours of tutorial wasn't enough for "most longtime FF players."
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 21:19
|
|
|
I've admittedly never played XIII, so if it explains in-game that Libra tells you "Hey Libra will tell you if a status effect works on an enemy" then okay, the game isn't at fault. It's still a bit annoying I would imagine to have things actually be useful that weren't in previous games. Hell, even in XII, Libra is useless against anything that isn't a standard enemy. Marks, rare game, and bosses will all show question marks for HP values and it won't tell you any weaknesses. Changing something completely around so that it serves a purpose where it had previously been useless is still going to cause some confusion even if it's explained well in-game, because people who have been playing the previous 12 games are going to be saying "Yeah yeah this is the 13th game, I know Libra sucks, let's move on." Again, the game isn't at fault, the player is, but after 12 games with the move being largely pointless, it's pretty logical that they'd assume the streak would continue. Again, they're wrong, but it's not an unreasonable conclusion. I mean imagine if like, I dunno, Sight actually did something useful, people's minds would be blown because Sight has been the absolute most worthless spell in FF history (well, okay, I guess AMUT wins that title, but still).
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 21:52
|
|
|
It's really not a big deal. It's better that they actually made status effects/Libra relevant now than to just add them in and keep them useless for nostalgia's sake. That said, you don't really need Libra in the 13's besides on the more difficult bosses, as generally your characters will quickly learn what works and doesn't work on enemies and will stick to their more effective spells. Libra's mainly useful for saving time (and helping with a certain achievement/trophy in 13-1), which can be invaluable against tough monsters so you don't have those first few turns of throwing spells that obviously won't work.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 22:29
|
|
|
MarsDragon posted:I think the problem is that a lot of people played their first FF when they were young and stupid. FFs have never really required status effects and buffs/debuffs to win the game, so a lot of people got used to mashing Attack because that's how they played FFIV/VI/VII when they were kids and hey, it worked right? Especially when you have to use Scan or Libra to figure out if your status spell will even work, so if you throw statuses out randomly against a boss like a stupid kid you're just going to think that statuses don't work. To our childhood credit, the most powerful melee weapons and the Fight command actually are amazingly useful and viable in 4 and 6. Cecil in 4 for example is the tankiest character and the most reliable source of DPS in the entire game just spamming Fight every turn. There's a lot of neat little tricks and strategies in the older FF games you can employ to beat stuff at abnormally low levels or complete the game with unusual restrictions like never equipping weapons, but we also shouldn't make them into something they're not. FF4 is mechanically simple and a lot of the abilities that aren't Fight and Magic are useless, FF5 can be easily overpowered with !Barrage or whatever and Coin Toss, and FF6 is a flat-out pretty easy game unless you deliberately handicap yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 22:43
|
|
|
And status effects have a long and glorious history of being either loving Useless or Assumed To Be Used (ie, the fight is tuned with the expectation that the mob will be slowed/poisoned/silenced/whatever). Status effects in general can be used for some interesting gameplay effects, but in my experience, they're very often a pointless waste of time compared to just killing poo poo. This is almost always true for popcorn mobs, sometimes less so for boss fights. There have been games that have used them well. Combining status effects with meaningful damage is always a big help, because choosing between dubiously useful status effects and raw damage is usually a no brainer. I find that srpgs tend to be a better medium for them, given the length of battles (and even there a lot of the minor effects are pretty useless compared to, again, raw damage). The better designed games let you use them to hit above your weight class and progress more quickly or smoothly. Final Fantasy has never been a series I've considered to have important status effects, even though many of the games let you use them to cheese various encounters and bosses if you know the right combination.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 23:46
|
|
|
Twelve by Pies posted:Again, the game isn't at fault, the player is, but after 12 games with the move being largely pointless, it's pretty logical that they'd assume the streak would continue. Again, they're wrong, but it's not an unreasonable conclusion. I mean imagine if like, I dunno, Sight actually did something useful, people's minds would be blown because Sight has been the absolute most worthless spell in FF history (well, okay, I guess AMUT wins that title, but still). I remember it being useful in 7 and 10.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 00:06
|
|
|
Winks posted:I remember it being useful in 7 and 10. That's incredibly weird, because Sight wasn't in 7 or 10. There's no reason for it to be in anything after 4, because all it does/did is open the world map.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:That's incredibly weird, because Sight wasn't in 7 or 10. There's no reason for it to be in anything after 4, because all it does/did is open the world map. He might be thinking of Scan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 00:19
|
|
|
SpazmasterX posted:He might be thinking of Scan. I actually thought he meant Amut for a second and I was like "Yeah the A-spells are super useful in FFX!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 01:51
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:Probably. Scan was okay in FF7 because it always hit, but it suffered from the problem of "I don't really give a poo poo" information. It was actually pretty good in 8 too but that was unnecessarily dick of them to make it so some casts of it were super quick and others let you look at all the weakness/resist info for as long as you wanted. Kind of poorly set up, though, in that it only gave you one bite of information at once and you'd have to wait for it to cycle through again if you missed it. In 8, every first cast of scan on an enemy type gave you detailed information. The subsequent casts would just give you the barebones HP/MP/Weakness/Immunity. I believe there was an option you could change to make it so it was always a detailed scan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 01:58
|
|
|
SpazmasterX posted:He might be thinking of Scan. Maybe, but that's a bit of a leap when the stuff he quoted only mentioned Sight and AMUT. Still, looking at it like that it's sorta true for X but I dunno why you'd really bother ever casting it as a spell when plenty of equipment comes with it essentially as a passive ability. It's okay in 7, I guess, until partway through Disc 2 when it just stops working on everything that lasts long enough to maybe warrant it (I'm guessing this is due to max HP being over 65,535 or something but it's still kinda annoying).
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 03:32
|
|
|
I wouldn't really say FF13 made status effects useful in the truest sense of the word. More like, "this enemy is vulnerable to X, Y, and Z debuffs, so if you don't slap them on it ASAP the fight is going to be unnecessarily harder". It's as tactical as putting a square peg into a square hole (and being told that the hole is vulnerable to square pegs).
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 03:44
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I wouldn't really say FF13 made status effects useful in the truest sense of the word. More like, "this enemy is vulnerable to X, Y, and Z debuffs, so if you don't slap them on it ASAP the fight is going to be unnecessarily harder". It's as tactical as putting a square peg into a square hole (and being told that the hole is vulnerable to square pegs). I wouldn't really say FF9 made elemental weaknesses useful in the truest sense of the word. More like, "this enemy is vulnerable to X element, so if you don't slap them on it ASAP the fight is going to be unnecessarily harder". It's as tactical as putting a square peg into a square hole (and being told that the hole is vulnerable to square pegs).
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 03:57
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:That's incredibly weird, because Sight wasn't in 7 or 10. There's no reason for it to be in anything after 4, because all it does/did is open the world map. I should have probably just left the whole post, but it was a reference to libra-type abilities. (..."Yeah yeah this is the 13th game, I know Libra sucks, let's move on." Again, the game isn't at fault, the player is, but after 12 games with the move being largely pointless, it's pretty logical that they'd assume the streak would continue.) I just assumed Sight was an awful libra type spell in a final fantasy I hadn't played. Dragonatrix posted:Maybe, but that's a bit of a leap when the stuff he quoted only mentioned Sight and AMUT. Still, looking at it like that it's sorta true for X but I dunno why you'd really bother ever casting it as a spell when plenty of equipment comes with it essentially as a passive ability. It's okay in 7, I guess, until partway through Disc 2 when it just stops working on everything that lasts long enough to maybe warrant it (I'm guessing this is due to max HP being over 65,535 or something but it's still kinda annoying). And it's also an item in XIII (librascope) if you want to assure you get 100% of the libra information. I'm not referring only to it in spell form =/ Winks fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jan 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 03:57
|
|
|
Bellmaker posted:It's kind of funny that the game with the best status effects is the NES version of FF3 (the DS version can go to hell from what I've seen of it). You have Mini and Toad to neutralize enemies, Warp and Exit to instant-kill dudes, Kill will kill anything around your level, Break 2 works hilariously well, and Death kills anything that isn't undead/boss, no questions asked. In FF2 The Toad spell, when leveled, instantly kills anything. Final boss included. Leveling it to 16 sucks unless you're playing the NES version though. If you're on the NES you can abuse the act/cancel bug to level it up once after each fight.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 04:05
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I wouldn't really say FF13 made status effects useful in the truest sense of the word. More like, "this enemy is vulnerable to X, Y, and Z debuffs, so if you don't slap them on it ASAP the fight is going to be unnecessarily harder". It's as tactical as putting a square peg into a square hole (and being told that the hole is vulnerable to square pegs). The same could be true for basically every possible strategy and skill in FF games.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 04:56
|
|
|
victrix posted:I find that srpgs tend to be a better medium for them, given the length of battles (and even there a lot of the minor effects are pretty useless compared to, again, raw damage). Tactics is a great example of a game where status effects are actually extremely useful. It helps that when you target an enemy with a spell, you can immediately see if the spell is worth your time casting by seeing if the target is immune or if it's just a ridiculously low chance of hitting. This way if you're up against a boss and there's, say, a 45% chance of the status succeeding, you at least know if you miss three times in a row that you're just hitting bad luck on the RNG and not trying to hit an enemy that's immune. The only enemies that couldn't really be hit by status effects at all were the Lucavi, most other enemies and bosses could be inflicted with at least a couple of things that were useful.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 06:34
|
|
|
Don't forget FFTA. If you didn't end fights with every enemy a blind petrified frog you were doing something wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 06:46
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Don't forget FFTA. Yeah, that "something wrong" being "not just instantly killing them instead of wasting three of your Assassin's turns statusing them". 
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 06:49
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I wouldn't really say FF13 made status effects useful in the truest sense of the word. More like, "this enemy is vulnerable to X, Y, and Z debuffs, so if you don't slap them on it ASAP the fight is going to be unnecessarily harder". It's as tactical as putting a square peg into a square hole (and being told that the hole is vulnerable to square pegs). That... kind of applies to a vast majority of skills in a vast majority of video games when described that way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 06:50
|
|
|
Twelve by Pies posted:Tactics is a great example of a game where status effects are actually extremely useful. It helps that when you target an enemy with a spell, you can immediately see if the spell is worth your time casting by seeing if the target is immune or if it's just a ridiculously low chance of hitting. This way if you're up against a boss and there's, say, a 45% chance of the status succeeding, you at least know if you miss three times in a row that you're just hitting bad luck on the RNG and not trying to hit an enemy that's immune. This is a huge thing that helps out status effects in FFT. Simply the fact that you don't have to waste a turn to make the determination on if a status is worthwhile or not means you're never penalized for carrying a status infliction ability.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 06:52
|
|
|
So I came across a really dumb video about why Final Fantasy is "anti-God". I would not recommend watching it and I'm only linking to it because I feel it's kinda unfair to just say "this guy is dumb" and nothing else. Here ya go. This video did however inspire me to ask about something. This guy is just a symptom of a problem I've seen in the Xenogears thread and Final Fantasy VII thread and Final Fantasy X thread and probably a lot more. It is the widely held belief that Japan hates religion and god and that JRPGs are all about evil religions and killing god. Why is this a stereotype or whatever? I'm no JRPG Guru or anything but I don't think it's really that common at all. I also don't think any Final Fantasy can be interpreted as anti-religion except maybe X and even that's a bit of a stretch. (Tactics also might qualify but I haven't played it)
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:08
|
|
|
Well, technically, SaGa 1 was released in the US under the FF imprint. So there's at least one 'Final Fantasy' game that was anti-religion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:11
|
|
|
In older Final Fantasy games, practically every area has several otherwise threatening enemies that can be completely neutralized by Sleep, Confuse, Berserk, Mini, Toad, or Stop. Oftentimes it's even faster and more efficient to do that than to just spam Fight or high-level attack magic, because you end up spending less MP on healing the damage you take doing it the dumb way. However, these games all tend to be very generous with resources. They offer no punishment for inefficient play, and the inefficiency is not itself a punishment, so the advantage of using status effects is merely that it's less monotonous to do so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:12
|
|
|
Religion being evil is a pretty common trope in these types of games, but I don't really think it's because Japan is anti-religion or anything. You could say the same about any evil corporation or country or any enemy faction, really. The writers just see it as an organization that the player might have a connection to, so defying the expectations will have a greater effect. Of course, it's so overplayed these days that you automatically expect any big group to be evil, so it didn't really work out too well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:12
|
|
|
A large organization staffed with people who you would expect to be personally loyal to the organization and therefore wiling to fight to protect it coupled with a ready explanation for incredibly powerful supernatural beings that you would expect to face in the endgame. Religions are practically tailor-made to be fantasy jRPG badguys. Pureauthor fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jan 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
The fact that a religion ends up being evil is usually a "twist" (even if it's such a common trope that it's more surprising when the religion is NOT evil). In order for something to be a twist, it needs to defy expectations or be surprising. Therefore, it is theoretically expected in Japan that religions would be good, and the fact that they turn out to be evil is "surprising." Ergo, it is only logical that Japan is not anti-religious. But yeah, it's mostly because churches are often associated with power, especially in "middle-ages"-type lore that Fantasy RPGs are usually steeped in. Heroes always have to be facing impossible odds, which means you need them to oppose groups with power and, hopefully, a lot of expendable loyal goons for the hero to chop through.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:39
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Why is this a stereotype or whatever? I'm no JRPG Guru or anything but I don't think it's really that common at all. I also don't think any Final Fantasy can be interpreted as anti-religion except maybe X and even that's a bit of a stretch. (Tactics also might qualify but I haven't played it) I don't know about European countries, but in the U.S. at least people find Asian religious stuff to be exotic and it gets used in all sorts of things that make no sense to actual practitioners of said religion, just because it's new and exciting to it's intended audience. Same basic principle, just reverse it. Japanese developers and other artists will whip out christian symbolism because it is exotic and different in Japan. To the best that I know, there isn't really anything in Japanese history that resembles a monolithic religion like Catholicism before the protestant reformation and there's actually a lot of interesting history there that can make for some good story-telling among a society that won't immediately explode in indignant rage over, "making light of their religion." or whatever. Of course the people who write video game plots aren't even writers most of the time, let alone historical or religious scholars and so we get a lot of silly things. Which will absolutely wind up the fundie crowd enough to make dumb youtubes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:49
|
|
|
We need a jrpg with an evil mercantile group as a standin for an evil corporation. WE OWN ALL HORSE CART TRAFFIC HERE HEROES. Also from all the games I've played, western games seem far more reluctant than eastern ones to touch on anything resembling the catholic church, for a variety of reasons. Though, ironically, they'll tackle it in a more 'realistic' manner, just usually not a fantasy one (see: Total War/Crusader Kings papacy silliness). Also most generic heaven/hell stuff is ultra, ultra hammy (Diablo, Painkiller, Dante's Inferno, Doom, et al). I can't actually think of a game that's handled religion with any significant degree of intelligence. I'm sure there are some! And Bayonetta gets props for the best western angels in a game
victrix fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Jan 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 08:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:20 |
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Why is this a stereotype or whatever? I'm no JRPG Guru or anything but I don't think it's really that common at all. I also don't think any Final Fantasy can be interpreted as anti-religion except maybe X and even that's a bit of a stretch. (Tactics also might qualify but I haven't played it) Well in FFX you kill the founder of a false religion that was tricking people into doing bad things, in FFT you kill the founder of a false religion that was tricking people into doing bad things AND was a direct reference to Catholicism The other games can be interpreted that way but in those two it's outright stated.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 09:09
|
|
