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chesh posted:In short, Rawls? Was totally normal to be on the down low. That should not be shocking to us, but it is, because we have short attention spans. What is shocking, to me, is to realize that The Wire has Rawls, Omar, and Kima as three different and fully fleshed out predominant gay characters on TV, whereas before that you can count Will and Jack from Will and Grace and Willow from Buffy on the one and only gay hand of television. Hell, I still remember an episode of L.A Law where for the full week leading up to the episode airing the media was just full of,"LESBIAN KISS ON L.A LAW! THE GAY AGENDA HAS GONE MAD!" and when the episode aired, one woman lightly pecks another woman on the lips. I still remember my Dad saying,"What was all the fuss about? That was very tasteful." Watching old episodes of NYPD Blue, I still sometimes have to remind myself that the Sipowicz/"Gay John" relationship was pretty groundbreaking in that it showed an old racist, sexist, homophobe realizing across a period of time that not only was it completely okay for a guy to be gay, but that he genuinely liked and respected the guy as well Other than that? I vaguely recall Melrose Place had an openly gay character right from the start, and all I can really think of before then was played for laughs, ala Sammy Davis Jr. kissing Archie in All in the Family.
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Jan 27, 2013 13:27
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Law & Order treated homosexual characters fairly very early on. I'll never forget Detective Logan knocking the lights out of that homophobic politician. But gays were portrayed as normal, sometimes as criminal, sometimes as witnesses... No stereotypes, they were just a part of the community, and their characterization had nothing to do with their sexuality.
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Jan 27, 2013 13:35
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escape artist posted:Law & Order treated homosexual characters fairly very early on. I'll never forget Detective Logan knocking the lights out of that homophobic politician. But gays were portrayed as normal, sometimes as criminal, sometimes as witnesses... No stereotypes, they were just a part of the community, and their characterization had nothing to do with their sexuality. That reminds me of one of my favorite,"Oh by the way - this character is gay" moments in television of all time. "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" From memory, this is her last appearance in the show, and is the first time any reference to her sexuality ever came up. I always liked the suggestion that everybody was fully aware the character was gay and it wasn't a big deal (because it shouldn't be!).
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Jan 27, 2013 22:47
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My favorite subtlety is the Cameras. In season one, everything is timeshifted by most of 15 years on account of the original story being from the 80's. They explain the typewriters and beepers with dialogue/how hosed up is this department. But the cameras are also 70's nikons with the long glass shooting T-max. As the seasons roll on, the cameras get better, from manual advance film, to motordrive, to digitals with the big white canon tele lenses, but that rides along unmentioned. Obviously the people making the show are camera people and were putting that in for other camera people to notice. Generally The Wire was way camera-ier than about anything else, with all the CCTV shots, and so on. [edit] Ok, there was a specific cameras subplot in S2. You don't gotta take it to the shop to get it turned around, or nothin? Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 23:11
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That plot always makes it seem way older than it actually is, to me. Nick is so baffled by computers and digital cameras and its easy to forget that it's only 2003 (I think) and Nick is a pretty old school, blue collar guy. I also like how Ziggy is considered a computer genius for being able to google drug ingredients and put a picture of his dick as Maui's wallpaper. GODDAMMIT ZIGGY GET YOUR DICK OFF MY COMPUTER! It's funny how, aside from the wire, the use of technology is generally portrayed as a really inefficient method used by lazy, dumb cops (Herc and Carver in season 2, Herc in season 4.) grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 23:56
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chesh posted:I guess that's my problem right there - Dominic West was the STAR AND CENTRAL CHARACTER of an HBO show. He really wasn't though. McNulty might get the most screen time and the "rebel detective" might normally be the protagonist, but he wasn't the main character. There was an entire season where we barely see him. The Wire was such an amazingly ensemble work that it actually makes sense to me that nobody's career got jumpstarted. When every single character is putting in brilliant work, nothing stands out.
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Jan 28, 2013 00:09
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I have to disagree. I think McNulty is definitely the "main" character of the show but not in the sense of your typical TV series. It's true that in Season 4 he isn't on screen all that much, but even then his absence is still a big part of the story arc, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the show begins with McNulty taking on Barksdale and ends with McNulty leaving the force.
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Jan 28, 2013 01:02
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West was great in the role but he never got the unforgettable dramatic scenes that many other characters got. I mean, near everyone was great but he's not the guy I think of when I think of the best acting in the show. I'm sure he could have if he was asked to, but that's the key, there was no need to give him them. An important exception is the episode where Kima gets shot. And pretty much any scene with him and Bunk drinking is brilliant. Interesting what if: according to Sepinwall, one of the guys initially considered for McNulty was John C. Reilly. grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 01:24
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cletepurcel posted:Interesting what if: according to Sepinwall, one of the guys initially considered for McNulty was John C. Reilly. Reilly is actually a really good actor with a ton of dramatic roles to his credit, but it would've been the greatest thing ever if he played McNulty in character as Steve Brule.
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Jan 28, 2013 05:26
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chesh posted:This I disagree with. I don't think they thought Idris would be the breakout star he has been. I think the whole point was to cast people that wouldn't necessarily break out.
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Jan 28, 2013 05:39
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Unzip and Attack posted:I have to disagree. I think McNulty is definitely the "main" character of the show but not in the sense of your typical TV series. It's true that in Season 4 he isn't on screen all that much, but even then his absence is still a big part of the story arc, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the show begins with McNulty taking on Barksdale and ends with McNulty leaving the force.
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Jan 28, 2013 08:08
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There is a main character  and its name is Baltimore.
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Jan 28, 2013 08:12
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escape artist posted:There is a main character e: To be honest, I've never been a fan of Brother. He's like some kinda of weird super hero slash cowboy - always cool, never shaken, and possibly immortal. People talk about him and act around him as though he's impervious, as though the mere suggestion of simply shooting him in the face would be to waste a bullet. It's one thing to know someone is willing to kill, but we don't need to pretend that the solution is anything other than pulling the trigger before he does. MC Fruit Stripe fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 08:13
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escape artist posted:There is a main character Baltmer. In related news, Bodie and Poot shooting Wallace is so goddamn. 
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Jan 28, 2013 10:25
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Unzip and Attack posted:I have to disagree. I think McNulty is definitely the "main" character of the show but not in the sense of your typical TV series. It's true that in Season 4 he isn't on screen all that much, but even then his absence is still a big part of the story arc, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the show begins with McNulty taking on Barksdale and ends with McNulty leaving the force. Here's how I imagine this origin story. BIGWIG: All right, fella, we're doing promo. Who's the Face? SIMON: There's no main character. It's a greek-- BIGWIG: Can it, Simon! The 'Bo can't put boy-thigh-fuckin' on a poster. What's on toppa that marquee? PRICE: (O.S.) Tell 'em it's McNulty! [Giggles] SIMON: Jimmy McNulty's your guy, Bigwig. [Chortles forever]
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Jan 28, 2013 11:17
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Mescal posted:Here's how I imagine this origin story. You mean Jimmy McArdle.
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Jan 28, 2013 21:30
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I can't be the only one who fights the urge to reply to everything with "man you equivocating like a motherfucker."
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Jan 28, 2013 21:41
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Rewatching the third season with some political junkie friends and I noticed that the guy charged with driving all over the state to pick up the disposable cell phones is named Bernard. Get it? Bernard gets the burners. Burn-ard. GoonCockmander fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 00:28
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So i just watched Horseface steal the southeast district's surveillance van. Its probably just a bit of editing to cut down on time, but it looks the stripped wires are already hanging down for Horse to hotwire the van. But i like to think its a kind of statement about the BPD that the cops have to hotwire their vans, or that they've been stolen before but nobody could be bother to fix the damage.
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Jan 29, 2013 10:19
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Well, we learned in Season 5 of The Wire that Baltimore's service vehicles are all pieces of poo poo that are falling apart.
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Jan 29, 2013 12:42
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escape artist posted:Well, we learned in Season 5 of The Wire that Baltimore's service vehicles are all pieces of poo poo that are falling apart.
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Jan 29, 2013 13:54
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escape artist posted:Well, we learned in Season 5 of The Wire that Baltimore's service vehicles are all pieces of poo poo that are falling apart. I love the scene of McNulty arriving to a homocide via city bus. Bob Brown is on the scene waiting and spots McNulty get off and just can't believe what just happened.
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Jan 29, 2013 15:34
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I'd forgotten how good the first season was. Usually, when I'm bored and sitting at home, I'll throw on an episode or two from the later seasons (2 onward). I never went back to the early part of the first because a lot of it is about the birth of the Major Crimes unit, and I like the series more when the detail is firing on all cylinders (legally or not). But man, I'd forgotten just how loving good it was. Especially Daniels. The mental image I've always had of him was of a stand-up guy, but I'd forgotten why I'd come to that conclusion, and the first season does a fantastic job of showing it. He's on the shortlist for major, he wants the job, he wants to make a career out of the force...but when the Barksdale case starts spooling up and he's faced with making the choice between real police work and a career where he has to wade through bullshit, he picks the work. That scene where he's talking to Burrell and Rawls and shouts This is bullshit is pitch-perfect. Burrell's eating and doesn't really give a gently caress; you can see behind Rawls' straight face that he's filing Daniels away for a paper-loving later on, and Daniels himself, knowing that it's likely to cost him an easy future, decides to to what's right. All because of the case. It's a fantastic scene, and it makes me wonder. If Daniels had never been assigned to Major Crimes, or if he'd listened to his wife and just focused on climbing the ladder, do you think he would have turned into another Burrell? Asbury fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 20:09
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Yeah, I'm on god knows how many re-watch and Season 1 is so much better then I remembered.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:48
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3Romeo posted:If Daniels had never been assigned to Major Crimes, or if he'd listened to his wife and just focused on climbing the ladder, do you think he would have turned into another Burrell? That's a really great question. I'm inclined to think probably not though. I mean eventually cops in those types of leadership positions get faced with tough moral decisions like that, no matter how they duck the work or try to avoid responsibility. At his core Daniels is a decent human being who sees the department as needing serious reform. Sure he's concerned about his career but I just can't see someone who was so committed to the Barksdale detail becoming a shill for the system given a slightly different series of events.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:57
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Given how prevalent a theme it is in the show that minor, often coincidental events can have major effects, I think its very plausible that small differences in Daniel's life could have absolutely turned him into a slave of the institution. That's kind of the point of Carcetti's arc, that here is a guy that while ambitious and career-minded from the outset does genuinely want to do good. But once he gets into the system and realizes how things actually work, he becomes frustrated and corrupted by it. After eating a lot of bowls of poo poo, he ends up sacrificing his ideals. He's a different character than Daniels, but it can happen to anybody.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:05
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Carcetti doesn't really sell out after eating bowls of poo poo, he basically sells out the moment the DNC woman tells him he could be governor in two years if he plays his cards right (ie. before he even officially becomes mayor.) he's shown to have ideals initially but he's also clearly a narcissistic politician like the rest, even as a Councilman, and the latter wins out over the former pretty quickly. The bowls of poo poo we see him take aren't even from the upper institutions for the most part, the metaphor is supposed to be about managing the various special interests as mayor (ie. the ministers, who give him his first bowl with Herc.) The moment that makes me hate Carcetti the most is when he apologizes to Bunny like two years after the fact for shutting down Hamsterdam, and Bunny is so appalled at the audacity he's speechless. At that point he's probably madder that Carcetti shut down the Hamsterdam school program (or rather, his staff did). grading essays nude fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 21:18
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The moment I stopped liking Carcetti was when he leaves the money for the school on the table. "That smug son of a bitch. He was going to make me beg."
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Jan 30, 2013 02:03
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Just finished the last two episodes of season one. I gotta say, that scene with Dee at the station is still one of my favorites of the series.
CaptainHollywood fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 02:20
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CaptainHollywood posted:Just finished the last two episodes of season one. I still gotta say, that scene with Dee at the station is still one of my favorites of the series. Which scene specifically? One of those two has one of my favorite quotes McNulty and Daniels are in the car, following Dee, when Dee goes home to get changed before he goes to pick up the drugs from the city. McNulty notes this and Daniels says "Boy had to get himself correct."
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Jan 30, 2013 02:25
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CaptainHollywood posted:Just finished the last two episodes of season one. I gotta say, that scene with Dee at the station is still one of my favorites of the series. The "Where's Wallace?" scene? That wasn't scripted. Larry Gilliard Jr. was improv-ing that, and it was awesome, so they kept it. edit: The first "where's Wallace?" was scripted, but the emotional explosion as he repeats the question was not.
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Jan 30, 2013 02:35
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escape artist posted:The moment I stopped liking Carcetti was when he leaves the money for the school on the table. Yeah, Carcetti complains that by taking the money he would be giving the Governor (and the Republicans) a massive political leg-up and it would take him a few years at least to recover from the damage, so he could kiss being Governor goodbye.... for the time being. At no point does Carcetti ever seem to think to himself,"And... so what?" - he puts his own personal interests ahead of the welfare of the children and exposes himself (particularly to Norman) as just another politician who talks a good game but whose true interests are in his own career.
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Jan 30, 2013 03:21
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escape artist posted:The "Where's Wallace?" scene? That's good too, but I really like when Bunk is showing him all the pictures of everyone murdered throughout the season. I could be wrong but I think it's the longest scene in the entire series.
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Jan 30, 2013 03:27
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, Carcetti complains that by taking the money he would be giving the Governor (and the Republicans) a massive political leg-up and it would take him a few years at least to recover from the damage, so he could kiss being Governor goodbye.... for the time being. Well yeah, obviously Carcetti established himself as an irredeemable hack just like the rest the minute he rejected the money. His repugnance just reaches its peak when he crashes the high school debate with Namond, using it as an opportunity to grandstand about how this proves how he's improved education in Baltimore, and THEN he has the balls to go and pretend to Colvin that he ever had any principles. Another thing Carcetti did to gently caress over the city that doesn't get mentioned as much: to secure his run for governor, he has to give something like half the city's budget to the Congressman from PG County (I think) in order to prevent him from running. I know this is like two seasons ahead from where we're supposed to be, I just think Carcetti doesn't get enough credit for being a despicable character. Hell, arguably Royce shows more backbone than he does, at least he considered trying to make Hamsterdam work.
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Jan 30, 2013 03:37
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Season 2's final two episodes are amazing. I absolutely love how well they show that the Greek is never in any position in which he appears to feel threatened--especially in his final scene at the airport where he says, "Business. Always business," with the nicest old man smile. To the Major Cases squad, it's a minor victory. To him, it's an equally (or even less) minor inconvenience. He's so cocky that, even with the possibility of being identified, he walks right in front of the police's nose twice just because he can. The scenes with Frank and his brother, and then Frank and Nick are also excellent.
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Jan 30, 2013 04:30
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Your avatar just arrived in my rewatch. If he's actually a (current or former) member of the Fruit of Islam, as implied by his dress sense and very formal way of speaking, I'd buy it. Those guys are scary as hell, especially if you're just a street baller or corner thug. Here's a report from the ADL about their operations: http://archive.adl.org/issue_nation_of_islam/reports/financing.pdf  I'd imagine it's similar to how Paddy O'Brien the Irish drop dealer feels about the really hardcore IRA guys, or Albar Extarte the Basque corner runner feels about the ETA... e: and to be fair, Omar does just shoot him. He's much harder than Cheese. Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 05:50
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He prays in Arabic after Omar shoots him... so he's definitely a Muslim.
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Jan 30, 2013 06:10
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I think it's partially the sense that Brother does not give two fucks about putting a bullet into someone and won't hesitate to do so if he feels it's necessary. And generally speaking, it probably is considering where he is. Much like Omar. Someone brought up in the BWE thread that part of what makes gangsters gangsters is that they don't hesitate to go all in when it comes to violence. That when it comes to fighting they go straight for the throat, metaphorically speaking, and will probably start the fight that way. When Cheese and his boys come up to Brother, Brother has no problem immediately putting (intentionally nonlethal) holes in him, and is completely ready to follow up with actual bullets. Similar to Omar. Additionally, there's their reputation to consider. People are scared goddamn shitless of Omar and Brother, and it goes a long way for both of 'em. What does Omar say? "Sometimes a name is all you need?" Same with Brother. He scares off Cheese and everyone takes a step back and knows that Brother isn't to be trifled with. And the people in charge realise that he's not trifling motherfucker who will put a bullet in them if they go after him. Also I love that Brother does his own wildcatting/reloading.
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Jan 30, 2013 06:46
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Parachute Underwear posted:Season 2's final two episodes are amazing. I absolutely love how well they show that the Greek is never in any position in which he appears to feel threatened--especially in his final scene at the airport where he says, "Business. Always business," with the nicest old man smile. To the Major Cases squad, it's a minor victory. To him, it's an equally (or even less) minor inconvenience. He's so cocky that, even with the possibility of being identified, he walks right in front of the police's nose twice just because he can. I always forget about Frank's brother. The scene where he calls Frank out for how much damage he's done to his family is amazing, where he's shocked to find out Nick was dealing heroin. I never quite understand the deal with him though, he was part of another union that collapsed (I think, not sure if this is explicitly said), but seems to live in sort of-peaceful retirement. Did he just see the writing on the wall and retired at the right time, unlike Frank's desperate attempts to keep the union alive?
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Jan 30, 2013 08:02
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I don't remember much about him, but one thing I remember is he did this thing where he would theoretically bet on on horse races, and always did it, but would never wager any money.
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Jan 30, 2013 08:06
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