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Carrasco posted:Kind of odd that Monobear's not offering any proof. It should be pretty easy. Just point out that they're an inch or two taller than they remember, or that they've gotten a haircut in between their first day of highschool and now, or something. I think we're going to have to suspend our disbelief on that. That the characters didn't grow between freshman year and the events of DR1 wasn't even mentioned last game, and I assume the same goes for this one.
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Feb 5, 2013 19:53
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The Devil Tesla posted:I think we're going to have to suspend our disbelief on that. That the characters didn't grow between freshman year and the events of DR1 wasn't even mentioned last game, and I assume the same goes for this one. It actually did come up: Kirigiri asked "what did you do to my body?" and because Monobear wasn't ready to reveal that twist, he just vanished. loquacius posted:COUNTERPOINT: Anime hairstyles do not change unless it's to symbolize a dramatic moment of profound character development High school is the focal point of anime characters' lives, when else are they going to have something meaningful enough to make them cut their hair happen? 
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Feb 5, 2013 19:55
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Is the sky supposed to look like it's going at warp speed? I can't tell if it's a stylistic choice or not.
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Feb 5, 2013 19:57
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Carrasco posted:Kind of odd that Monobear's not offering any proof. It should be pretty easy. Just point out that they're an inch or two taller than they remember, or that they've gotten a haircut in between their first day of highschool and now, or something. Better example is Tsumiki. She's a nurse, who treats herself, and is injury-prone. Don't you think she'd have a moment in which she didn't precisely recognize the wounds she was currently sporting, or expected to find some wounds that had already fully healed somewhere along the line?
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Feb 5, 2013 19:58
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Anoia posted:I've gotta know, was this very different in Japanese? I don't know much about their idioms, but cat out of the frying pan is a fantastic mixed-up metaphor, so kudos on that choice. I don't want to talk about it  . Ask Oren.Let's just say that the original line was accompanied by two paragraphs of notes in which the first sentence was "So, this is an untranslatable metajoke". I get the impression this is going to be a thing with Sonia.
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Feb 5, 2013 19:59
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Huh, Saionji and Gundam didn't speak a word throughout the whole thing, and Chiaki didn't say very much. The latter is probably due to her personality, and I guess the first two aren't really known for 'normal' reactions anyway. The real question is, will tomorrow be Murderday? There's been enough buildup that it could reasonably happen, or to have another day or two go by with Togami still trying to take charge. And if it does, from a metagame perspective, who would it be? There are no obvious cases like Maizono this time, but I'd probably wager my bet on Souda or Togami - the former's built up such a swift infatuation with Sonia that I can't see both of them surviving the whole thing, while Togami's been throwing up death flags for quite a while now. Teruteru is also paranoid enough that he won't see anything coming and/or panic, which makes him a potential victim or murderer. Beyond that, I don't think any of the others have been explored enough yet in the game - the only other one I could think of is Sonia, but she seems like a really interesting character and I think the game is going to build on that.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:04
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Carrasco posted:Kind of odd that Monobear's not offering any proof. It should be pretty easy. Just point out that they're an inch or two taller than they remember, or that they've gotten a haircut in between their first day of highschool and now, or something. Well, if we assume Monobear is a student, it stands to reason that he might have been mind-wiped too, then figured it out and started causing poo poo similar to what went down with Kirigiri last game (edit: with an improbable and insane level of efficiency. I guess. Not impossible with these SHSL jerks all over the place!). If that happened, maybe he actually doesn't know what would count as proof? Is Person X's hair longer or shorter or the exact same length? Might just end up making himself look stupid, and part of the reason Monobear works as a psychological trick is that he gives the impression of omniscience. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 20:06
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ApplesandOranges posted:The real question is, will tomorrow be Murderday? That would mean only one free time day, and I think that there would be at least two, more likely three at least for the first murder.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:07
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:That would mean only one free time day, and I think that there would be at least two, more likely three at least for the first murder. We only had one in the first game, if one didn't count the forced one with Maizono. I'm not discounting the possibility, but I think using Free Time events isn't a very good barometer on when the Murderday will come.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:10
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I'm really starting to suspect Monobear and Monomi are in cahoots. If they're not, why was she so surprised that he revealed the students' memory loss? The only reason I can think of is that the mastermind went off script like Junko did - or alternately, it is all part of the script. It just doesn't really make sense for Monomi to think Monobear isn't going to reveal something like that. Unless she thought Monobear wasn't aware of the memory loss, but that kinda seems weird to me.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:10
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getitoffgetitoff posted:I'm really starting to suspect Monobear and Monomi are in cahoots. If they're not, why was she so surprised that he revealed the students' memory loss? The only reason I can think of is that the mastermind went off script like Junko did - or alternately, it is all part of the script. It just doesn't really make sense for Monomi to think Monobear isn't going to reveal something like that. Considering the fact that she didn't seem to expect him when he first showed up, it's probably the latter of the two.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:14
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getitoffgetitoff posted:I'm really starting to suspect Monobear and Monomi are in cahoots. If they're not, why was she so surprised that he revealed the students' memory loss? The only reason I can think of is that the mastermind went off script like Junko did - or alternately, it is all part of the script. It just doesn't really make sense for Monomi to think Monobear isn't going to reveal something like that.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:15
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Gensuki posted:Hinata, what are you so happy about Clearly this is a hint that Hinata actually is the traitor! 
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Feb 5, 2013 20:16
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getitoffgetitoff posted:I'm really starting to suspect Monobear and Monomi are in cahoots. If they're not, why was she so surprised that he revealed the students' memory loss? The only reason I can think of is that the mastermind went off script like Junko did - or alternately, it is all part of the script. It just doesn't really make sense for Monomi to think Monobear isn't going to reveal something like that. If she wasn't prepared for Monobear to be around at all, I doubt she'd have a contingency to explain to the students that "Yes, I took your memory, no, I'm not your enemy, I'm TOTALLY TRUSTWORTHY, REALLY." That he didn't reveal it immediately might have lulled her into thinking he was going to save it and she had some time to plan to ensure the students remain on her side, only for that to turn into an immediate fake-out. Gensuki posted:Hinata, what are you so happy about Zereth posted:Clearly this is a hint that Hinata actually is the traitor! Personally I can't wait for the trials if only to see Hinata visually convey other emotions for once.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:21
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I'm relieved they brought up the memory loss/traitor plot points this early. One of my great worries going into the sequel was that they were planning to leave that to the last chapter, and treat it as some giant revelation again. Which would be cheap as hell. Harp on it as repetitive if you like, but I prefer to see it as the game's implicit promise that its closing acts will have wildly different plot twists.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:25
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Falls Down Stairs posted:Actually, with these developments the problem of Nagito just keeps building; I frankly still have no idea what to make of him. It was pointed out that it's contradictory for him to treat his knowledge of the class as being from online research, because then he'd realize Togami isn't part of the group. Obvious fix: whatever Togami is up to, he's a co-conspirator. Still, the fact is on the table, and not just for us reasoning from the omniscient point-of-view of the readers but in-universe for the characters, that he stated publicly that he researched every member of this class, and so if Monobear is telling the truth that there's a non-class-member amidst them then he's lying about something and must have gotten some of his knowledge from somewhere else. It would be pretty funny if neither Togami nor Nagito were part of the original class, and there's a 15th student hiding somewhere on the island. I was thinking it would be odd if there were 16 huts when only 15 students were supposed to be here, but I guess that, depending on whether this island was specifically constructed for the trip, there could just be an extra hut. Still, it might indicate that a non-student was always intended to come along on the trip, rather than inserting themselves against the original plan. Consider also that Monobear specifically said that "there were only supposed to be fifteen Hope’s Peak Academy students coming to this island!" If Togami or Nagito are actually from DR1, they're also Hope's Peak students, and if 16 people were always meant to be on the trip, then Monobear must have thought that one of those 16 wasn't a student. That would imply that either Monobear is unaware of Togami/Nagito being a previous student, or someone else is the non-student.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:27
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Intentionally falling asleep outside of the dorms isn't a rule condition this time so the jerk can do whatever. Actually DR1's secret character didn't follow that rule, presumeably, did they?Fedule posted:I don't want to talk about it Oronen: please post another translation update I want to see all these words about a joke I can't get and won't be funny after it's explained.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:38
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orenronen posted:I don't really remember what happened after that. The next time I knew what was going on... This is absolutely not suspicious as gently caress. On the other hand, if Monobear is telling any sort of truth, I suspect that yes, only fifteen Hope's Academy students were supposed to be on the field trip, and yes, there is a traitor. However, these two facts may not have anything to do with each other.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:39
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Krinkle posted:Intentionally falling asleep outside of the dorms isn't a rule condition this time so the jerk can do whatever. Actually DR1's secret character didn't follow that rule, presumeably, did they? Junko learned how to crawl through vents from her sister.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:41
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Krinkle posted:Intentionally falling asleep outside of the dorms isn't a rule condition this time so the jerk can do whatever. Actually DR1's secret character didn't follow that rule, presumeably, did they? Yeah, but I think the other characters might find it a bit odd if one of them didn't have a hut assigned to them.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:44
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Thinking about it some more, here's something else that makes me suspect Monomi and Monobear: We all accept that both Monobear and Monomi have remote operators controlling them, right? So if they're not cooperating, does that mean we have two different masterminds fighting for control? And somehow they both have access to all of this stuff on the island? AND they both hide behind puppets? If Monomi really is fighting against Monobear, why wouldn't her operator just reveal what's up and get the students' trust? It just doesn't make much sense to me otherwise. (If we already discussed this stuff I'm sorry, this thread moves really fast)
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Feb 5, 2013 20:45
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No I mean if we assume that someone here doesn't belong but has a dorm anyway, Then the jerk, someone who does belong but is not visible, can sleep wherever they want- In the cavities in the planes where the engines should go for instance- without breaking any rules.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:48
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Okay I could be thinking about this all wrong but Monomi didn't say anything about her not knowing about the traitor right? And since she(and the person behind her) were the ones who must had made the huts and stuff then she probbaly knows who the traitor is...well maybe its because that traitor is Monomi's controler or the person who built Monomi. This is what I noticed at least.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:53
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NeuroticLich posted:Oh wow, those look great. Funnily enough I ironed down Nagito and Gundam head sprites earlier today, won't bother posting those now because those are ironed much better. I made a Monobear as part of the sprites from the first game (see link here). The Monobear sprite for the second game isn’t different enough to warrant making another Perler Monobear, IMO. HelloWinter posted:Nope, not yet. I wish I would have known about the second set of sprites beforehand so I could have used them from the start. At this point, I don’t want this set to be internally inconsistent, and there aren’t enough differences to justify redoing the first four sprites, so I might as well keep using the walking sprites that I currently have. The one problem I still have is that Nidai and Togami don’t have a “normal” sprite in the set that I’m using (they have two walking frames as opposed to a standing frame and a walking frame), and I’m unsure whether to edit those sprites or leave them as they are.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:57
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IceBorg posted:Okay I could be thinking about this all wrong but Monomi didn't say anything about her not knowing about the traitor right? And since she(and the person behind her) were the ones who must had made the huts and stuff then she probbaly knows who the traitor is...well maybe its because that traitor is Monomi's controler or the person who built Monomi. I like this theory. Maybe the "traitor" is actually an infiltrator trying to take down the mastermind behind Monobear. It could make sense.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:00
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HelloWinter posted:I couldn't find the second one for Togami... I don't think Togami has a second one. The second set is blinks/winks, and he's wearing glasses.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:02
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Yeah I don't really see the logic behind "somebody here isn't actually a member of your class; therefore THERE IS A TRAITOR AMONGST YOU." It doesn't really follow that "outsider" and "traitor" are the same idea, which leads me to believe it's an intentional distortion to turn the group against Togami, because he's (a) probably from a different class, and (b) the de facto leader. Now that Monobear has successfully planted that connection (outsider = traitor) in everybody's head, as soon as they figure out Togami (or Nagito, or Hinata) is actually from a different class they'll all get suspicious as hell, no matter what the actual reason for him being there is. Unity smashed; group divided; despair triumphs; etc etc etc.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:10
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Has it been brought up why Monomi became Monobear's bitch after her "magic" staff got broken? It makes no sense, unless the staff symbolized Monobear's controller taking control over Monomi or something.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:16
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Certis Baliano posted:Has it been brought up why Monomi became Monobear's bitch after her "magic" staff got broken? It makes no sense, unless the staff symbolized Monobear's controller taking control over Monomi or something. Or maybe the staff actually had powers. Not the craziest thing to happen in this game.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:22
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Certis Baliano posted:Has it been brought up why Monomi became Monobear's bitch after her "magic" staff got broken? It makes no sense, unless the staff symbolized Monobear's controller taking control over Monomi or something.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:23
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getitoffgetitoff posted:Thinking about it some more, here's something else that makes me suspect Monomi and Monobear: We all accept that both Monobear and Monomi have remote operators controlling them, right? So if they're not cooperating, does that mean we have two different masterminds fighting for control? And somehow they both have access to all of this stuff on the island? AND they both hide behind puppets? If Monomi really is fighting against Monobear, why wouldn't her operator just reveal what's up and get the students' trust? Well, it hasn't been addressed in as direct terms. And I think you are asking a bunch of the right questions. Strictly speaking, your theory doesn't contradict anything that we've seen. But it seems there's a violation of Occam's Razor if you operate off of your initial assumptions; you have to start making more assumptions why Monomi and Monobear would present each other as at odds at all. Why not just a Monobear like in DR1? Similarly, in your idea that Monomi is shocked that Monobear revealed the mind-wipe because he's "going off script", you start having to make assumptions about why he'd go off script, especially when it's tactically advantageous to him to keep hush about that. So much ends up resting on "what's going on off-screen" assumptions. So, all in all, you've presented a theory that hasn't been explicitly dealt with before and I'd judge that it's a possibility. But it's a possibility where there's not yet any super compelling reason to favor it over other theories. You have to explain what's being accomplished with all the appearance of fighting if it's not actual fighting. And frankly, there's an easy reason that the person behind Monomi wouldn't reveal themselves to the students: if he or she did, he or she has also probably told his or her identity to Monobear. And if they're fighting I don't think Monobear is liable to want Monomi's controller to be left alive. Meanwhile, if you assume one mastermind, why is Monobear revealing the whole "16th student" thing? It makes immediately obvious sense that he's trying to direct the students' attention into worming out Monomi's true identity. And we know he's not lying because we the readers have evidence that the characters can't see. We've been aware there's someone in this class who doesn't seem to belong since the very beginning: Togami. Certis Baliano posted:Has it been brought up why Monomi became Monobear's bitch after her "magic" staff got broken? It makes no sense, unless the staff symbolized Monobear's controller taking control over Monomi or something. Yeah this is genuinely pretty loving weird. 
Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 21:25
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Certis Baliano posted:Has it been brought up why Monomi became Monobear's bitch after her "magic" staff got broken? It makes no sense, unless the staff symbolized Monobear's controller taking control over Monomi or something. Does that really make no sense? He beats her up whenever she talks back. That's why.  He broke her staff to show how much stronger than her he is, because her big important MacGuffin item didn't actually slow him down for a second. I don't think it actually literally did anything.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:25
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quote: Also, if a traitor exists, the only person I (and probably any player) could expect of being one is Togami, as he's the only guy who's been in both games. e: vv I edited 'hood' out of my posts because I thought it looked nothing like one and didn't want to look like an idiot 
ANIME MONSTROSITY fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 21:31
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Call Now posted:That's a neat hat. It's a hood actually, you can see it in her official art.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:33
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Actually, if I had to work around Monobear's statement about ''15 students and a traitor'' I'd would have gone with: Out of the 16 people, 15 are students and 1 is the teacher. From those people, one of them is a traitor. But considering all of them are high school level people, my argument falls flat on it's own, which is terrible. Aside from that, I'm glad the game on it's own pokes fun of it's previous title. It's always good to do that from time to time.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:39
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The Devil Tesla posted:I think we're going to have to suspend our disbelief on that. That the characters didn't grow between freshman year and the events of DR1 wasn't even mentioned last game, and I assume the same goes for this one. It was mentioned a few times. Kirigiri asked Monobear what he did to her body and they all acknowledged something had been done to them. Then that something was revealed to be age.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:44
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loquacius posted:Does that really make no sense? He beats her up whenever she talks back. That's why. I think you'll find it has remarkable animal-transforming properties. If Monobear hadn't broken it, he'd probably be Monocow by now.  Seriously though, I know the VR theory's pretty shaky, but I do think there's something odd going on, and not just with the students' memories. There's at least been stuff that's well past the level of technology that Monobear seemed to have access to in DR1. Monomi's staff may well tie in to that.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:14
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Zandar posted:Seriously though, I know the VR theory's pretty shaky, but I do think there's something odd going on, and not just with the students' memories. There's at least been stuff that's well past the level of technology that Monobear seemed to have access to in DR1. Monomi's staff may well tie in to that. The problem is it's hard to tell what's artistic and what's a clue. Like in DR1, Monobear's technology was completely ridiculous (not to mention Chihiro's). For the first execution, he has some choker chain thing that manages to shoot out, catch Leon, drag him into a little stadium outside the court (that no one saw?). Also he has the whole castle set up for the Celes execution and ... a firetruck somehow? Not to mention that the spears that kill In DR1's extreme cases, we assume that Monobear just has access to incredible technology that is sort of like magic, but... "sorta kinda maybe not really but" grounded in some sort of reality. So here, when you have Monobeasts, transmuting cows, super-quick change weather, and teleporting bunnies, it's hard to know if the game's signalling you to "Hey, something's wrong with the tech this time around, this shouldn't be possible" or it's just more stuff to look stylish. I mean my four examples could just be giant robots, smoke-and-mirrors, a super climate control system, and sleight of hand. I don't know if there's anything that's happened to them that could only happen in a computer simulation (at least in game-world terms).
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Feb 5, 2013 22:22
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Carrasco posted:It actually did come up: Kirigiri asked "what did you do to my body?" and because Monobear wasn't ready to reveal that twist, he just vanished.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:24
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SOL_Cambot posted:I thought that was about her hands, because of her amnesia she didn't remember how they got burned. But she remembered how she got the scars. They only lost their memory from when they joined Hope's Peak until the game of mutual killing began.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:26
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