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Nessus posted:Wouldn't doing the 'choose your own cut' thing actually be an innovative sort of thing? I mean you'd sort of be making a meta-film. We're brushing against this already with Extended Editions but those seem to be natural outgrowths of director's cuts which we've had for a while. If we got to a point where you could in fact literally alter the film itself by checking various boxes, perhaps even creating entirely different experiences and making the home viewing format fundamentally different and over from the cinema viewing experience, that also brings a certain degree of implicit agency into the film - you're CHOOSING to create this reality in which there isn't X, or Y. Erasing natives, perhaps. It also sort of goes against the concept of the creator's artistic vision - the main reason why I suggested it in this case is because a large number of the fans consider George's artistic choices to be, well, poo poo. Star Wars is in a pretty unique position, where there are about 4 different and very controversial editions of a trilogy by a creator who was so convinced of his artistic vision that he saw fit to make previous versions unavailable, and who now no longer retains the power over the IP he once did. I really can't think of a franchise in a similar situation. What other films would you want this feature in? People have mentioned Blade Runner, but isn't the Final Cut largely considered the straight-up best version?
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Feb 4, 2013 15:56
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...of SCIENCE! posted:The Star Wars prequels made smug internet nerds mad that mysticism and superstition was replaced with secular science, I think it deserves at least some modicum of admiration for that. I think I disagree. "The Force" and Jedis were never a religion or into mysticism, that was just Han Solo's cynical opinion in Ep4. The Jedi weren't worshiping any invisible sky people. "The Force" obviously existed, and could be objectively demonstrated in the real world. What the prequels did is delve into the mechanics of it and clumsily try to deconstruct it with the finesse of a bull in a China shop. Now drat you, sir, for giving me an opening to defend the prequels, which I will hate until the Moon turns to dust and the birds sing no more.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:48
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GORDON posted:I think I disagree. "The Force" and Jedis were never a religion or into mysticism, that was just Han Solo's cynical opinion in Ep4. The Jedi weren't worshiping any invisible sky people. "The Force" obviously existed, and could be objectively demonstrated in the real world. What the prequels did is delve into the mechanics of it and clumsily try to deconstruct it with the finesse of a bull in a China shop. The ability to throw poo poo across the room is not mystical, but the Jedi Order is certainly a religion. The talk about "the will of the force" and the Jedis' die hard belief in it is in there for a reason. Baronash fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 02:40
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BreakAtmo posted:It also sort of goes against the concept of the creator's artistic vision - the main reason why I suggested it in this case is because a large number of the fans consider George's artistic choices to be, well, poo poo. Star Wars is in a pretty unique position, where there are about 4 different and very controversial editions of a trilogy by a creator who was so convinced of his artistic vision that he saw fit to make previous versions unavailable, and who now no longer retains the power over the IP he once did. I really can't think of a franchise in a similar situation. What other films would you want this feature in? People have mentioned Blade Runner, but isn't the Final Cut largely considered the straight-up best version? I mean, compare the granularity of control that this is suggesting with 'original cut/fancy ILM computer effects' cut, or with 'standard cut/directors cut'. In that case you're simply altering which curated version you get, and in the most famous version of the latter I can think of - namely, Lord of the Rings - it's arguably worse, as a movie, because you're adding long and sprawling scenes. It works because a. the scenes were there in the first place and as such are not simply out of nowhere, and b. well, LOTR is kind of sprawling anyway. However, looking at what people want or reasonable expansions from that desire, it goes beyond changing the effects/sound reel of certain fixed scenes, or having an alternate track with more scenes. This has only been done in cheeseball explicitly interactive movies, I recall a 'Mr. Payback' from when I was young. They want to be able to create specific movies, to their taste, from an overall corpus. While the obvious original intent of this technology would be to ensure that you would never have to see Han not shoot first (unless you goofed up the menu), these things have a way of getting away from you.
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Feb 5, 2013 02:55
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I'd be perfectly okay with just burying the Special Editions in a vault somewhere and forgetting they exist.
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Feb 5, 2013 03:01
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GORDON posted:I think I disagree. "The Force" and Jedis were never a religion or into mysticism, that was just Han Solo's cynical opinion in Ep4. The Jedi weren't worshiping any invisible sky people. "The Force" obviously existed, and could be objectively demonstrated in the real world. What the prequels did is delve into the mechanics of it and clumsily try to deconstruct it with the finesse of a bull in a China shop. The Force is literally space Buddhism but with tangible powers, you're using "religion" as a stand in for "Christianity" (which the Prequels then show is also applicable to the Force).
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Feb 5, 2013 03:15
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computer parts posted:The Force is literally space Buddhism but with tangible powers, you're using "religion" as a stand in for "Christianity" (which the Prequels then show is also applicable to the Force). The Buddhist element of The Force can be attributed to Kershner and ESB, along with the telekinetic and acrobatic powers. In ANH the Force is a vague power of intuition/charisma. Midichlorians were made up so you could blood test for Force sensitivity (which the EU had hinted at). There should have been a better way to do it, like having children discover their powers and then getting scooped up by the Jedi, but welp.
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Feb 5, 2013 03:43
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McDowell posted:The Buddhist element of The Force can be attributed to Kershner and ESB, along with the telekinetic and acrobatic powers. In ANH the Force is a vague power of intuition/charisma. If you've got to test for it, just mix some cliche psychic flash card test with some psychology 101 questions and rituals used to find reincarnated lamas in Tibet.
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Feb 5, 2013 04:33
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Gyges posted:If you've got to test for it, just mix some cliche psychic flash card test with some psychology 101 questions and rituals used to find reincarnated lamas in Tibet. The funny thing is that we see.the Jedi Council giving those tests to Anakin in Episode I. Its like the prequels were rushed out.first drafts that no one questioned.because the boss had a vision
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Feb 5, 2013 04:37
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The Force as presented in the OT (starting in ANH) is more in line with Taoism than with Buddhism, what with the inclusion of yin and yang, and "letting go" is somewhat more analogous to wu wei, with the emphasis on natural action more common than on disattachment. The prequels bring in more Buddhist materials.
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Feb 5, 2013 04:39
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GORDON posted:I think I disagree. "The Force" and Jedis were never a religion or into mysticism, that was just Han Solo's cynical opinion in Ep4. The Jedi weren't worshiping any invisible sky people. "The Force" obviously existed, and could be objectively demonstrated in the real world. What the prequels did is delve into the mechanics of it and clumsily try to deconstruct it with the finesse of a bull in a China shop. People still use the 'sky wizard' pejorative with a straight face? There is something delightful about this in the context of discussing the symbolic nature (and I guess legitimacy?) of religion in Star Wars.
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Feb 5, 2013 15:05
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McDowell posted:The Buddhist element of The Force can be attributed to Kershner and ESB, along with the telekinetic and acrobatic powers. In ANH the Force is a vague power of intuition/charisma. Choking chumps from across the room is a bit more than just intuition/charisma, son. Don't be giving it the rewriting history rubbish, it was clear from the first film that the Force 'does poo poo'.
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Feb 5, 2013 16:53
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Sentinel Red posted:Choking chumps from across the room is a bit more than just intuition/charisma, son. Don't be giving it the rewriting history rubbish, it was clear from the first film that the Force 'does poo poo'. Ah true I forgot about that (I know, right?) But that could have been done as something other than telekinesis. If the light side gives you some mind control, the dark side could give you lung control.
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Feb 5, 2013 17:30
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McDowell posted:If the light side gives you some mind control, the dark side could give you lung control. And eventually, only true masters of the dark side achieve...pussy control.
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Feb 5, 2013 18:06
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Don't get me started on my epic Trek/Wars crossover. The Borg Queen tries to seduce and assimilate the Emperor, but he destroys the nanoprobes with the dark side. Our heroes have to save the universe from the birth of a Sith/Borg hybrid.
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Feb 5, 2013 18:20
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McDowell posted:Don't get me started on my epic Trek/Wars crossover. The Borg Queen tries to seduce and assimilate the Emperor, but he destroys the nanoprobes with the dark side. Our heroes have to save the universe from the birth of a Sith/Borg hybrid. And at the end of it Han Solo and Chewie get sent back in time and become the basis for the Sasquatch legend. that was the dumbest EU story.
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Feb 5, 2013 18:29
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In possible movie news, a Yoda movie might be forthcoming along with some other films designed to spotlight fan-favorite characters. Looks like they're trying to copy the Marvel model because it's worked very well so far.
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Feb 5, 2013 19:39
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computer parts posted:that was the dumbest EU story. It was an infinities story anyway.
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Feb 5, 2013 19:52
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jivjov posted:It was an infinities story anyway. loving Star Wars EU sperge lords. Edit: I hope that doesn't come off as directed to you!
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Feb 5, 2013 21:05
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McDowell posted:Ah true I forgot about that (I know, right?) But that could have been done as something other than telekinesis. If the light side gives you some mind control, the dark side could give you lung control. It was pretty much always ki/chi/qi, even from the first. Especially with the samurai/old master framing. Lucas was pretty much otakuing it up and then renamed some stuff.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:52
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Cloks posted:In possible movie news, a Yoda movie might be forthcoming along with some other films designed to spotlight fan-favorite characters. Looks like they're trying to copy the Marvel model because it's worked very well so far. This won't happen. Not as live-action theatrical releases anyway.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:33
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Trump posted:This won't happen. Not as live-action theatrical releases anyway. It will almost certainly be theatrical, like that lovely Clone Wars movie. Live action, probably not.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:48
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Friendly Factory posted:It will almost certainly be theatrical, like that lovely Clone Wars movie. Live action, probably not. Bob Iger confirmed it, but yeah, who the gently caress knows what's it going to be.
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Feb 5, 2013 23:49
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Its a buddy cop movie.
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Feb 5, 2013 23:54
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McDowell posted:Its a buddy cop movie. An Imperial buddy cop movie would be amazing. Just make it a side-quel to A New Hope and have it be the two Imperial Detectives who were given the case to track down 3PO and R2.
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Feb 5, 2013 23:56
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BreakAtmo posted:It also sort of goes against the concept of the creator's artistic vision - the main reason why I suggested it in this case is because a large number of the fans consider George's artistic choices to be, well, poo poo. Star Wars is in a pretty unique position, where there are about 4 different and very controversial editions of a trilogy by a creator who was so convinced of his artistic vision that he saw fit to make previous versions unavailable, and who now no longer retains the power over the IP he once did. I really can't think of a franchise in a similar situation. What other films would you want this feature in? People have mentioned Blade Runner, but isn't the Final Cut largely considered the straight-up best version? The Blade Runner Final Cut is the best version, but that's because the alterations fit perfectly into the themes. It is all but literally a replicant of the original Blade Runner, a more 'perfect' but less 'authentic' copy. Scott is extremely aware of this, and he would continue down the same road with Prometheus. The Final Cut builds upon and complements the themes of the original Blade Runner, which is why they are frequently packaged together. The special editions of Star Wars and the prequels do the same thing, but are heavily critical of the copies (hence, 'Attack of the Clones'). Unlike Blade Runner, there is a huge gulf in meaning between bootlegs of the original Star Wars*, and the currently-available digitally enhanced versions. That's why the idea of merging every cut into one mega-movie using Blu-Ray technology is totally against the spirit of Star Wars or its prequels. There's a fan edit out there called 'The Despecialized Edition', which takes the crummy digital remasters and then uses more digital trickery to replicate the look of the original films - but better. This totally misses the point: Lucas is saying that, with digital manipulation, nothing is sacred. Reducing the grain and enhancing the colors is, to him, as bad as slapping a CG dinosaur in the background. The dinosaur just gets the point across in an exaggerated fashion. Remember that Lucas once protested this stuff before Congress. He didn't do a total 180 into hypocrisy. He's decided to embody the evil he warned about, to send a satirical message. *For my money, the only true version of Star Wars is the 'Puggo Grande' Version, which is absolutely beautiful. Remember that Lucas has directly contrasted the 'perfect', canonical special editions and the original copies that will eventually fade and decay. The solution is not to slather even more digital enhancements over the special editions, but to embrace that decay.
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Feb 6, 2013 00:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There's a fan edit out there called 'The Despecialized Edition' Despite a potential missed message, these are really awesome, and I highly recommend them.
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Feb 6, 2013 00:59
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Longbaugh01 posted:Despite a potential missed message, these are really awesome, and I highly recommend them. They aren't totally bad in theory. They're a variation on the aesthetic of Grindhouse, which inserted digital simulations of analog errors to emphasize that these ostensible 'mistakes' actually contribute to the meaning of a film. The Despecialized Editions are likewise 'about' blurring the line between 'unintentional' and 'intentional' to the point of highlighting the arbitrariness and irrelevance. The issue of them, though, is that they are adhering to a certain 'canon' by scrubbing the image into an HD copy of a nonexistent original. I find the methodology behind them pretty fascinating, but Puggo is the genuine article. (Remember how Star Wars contrasted the clean, slick empire with the rusty, jerry-rigged rebel tech?)
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Feb 6, 2013 02:09
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Just explore the Old Republic Disney, it has infinite stories that can be told without all the baggage of the original trilogy.
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Feb 6, 2013 02:19
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Samara posted:Just explore the Old Republic Disney, it has infinite stories that can be told without all the baggage of the original trilogy. Except all the baggage where all the ships and everything look just like the OT.
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Feb 6, 2013 02:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:as bad as slapping a CG dinosaur in the background. Foreground.
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Feb 6, 2013 02:20
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McDowell posted:Don't get me started on my epic Trek/Wars crossover. The Borg Queen tries to seduce and assimilate the Emperor, but he destroys the nanoprobes with the dark side. Our heroes have to save the universe from the birth of a Sith/Borg hybrid. The Borg assimilate some midochlorians and suddenly we have Sith Borg Hive and poo poo. They'll start murdering anything in their path including the Empire and Emperor. AND THEN THE SCORPION SPECIES FROM FLUIDIC SPACE COME IN AND IT'S PEW PEW POW EVERYWHERE! AND Q DOES A JIG! Perhaps we can get Luke trying to explain the force to Data and Chewie and Worf buddy cop team up and an epic Wesley romance that spans the empires that try to tear them apart....oh so glorious.
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Feb 6, 2013 02:29
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computer parts posted:Except all the baggage where all the ships and everything look just like the OT. The Bioware games sure. But the original Tales of the Jedi comics truly do look and feel ancient and unique.
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Feb 6, 2013 02:44
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computer parts posted:Except all the baggage where all the ships and everything look just like the OT. Quick, pretend I just posted the gif of Harrison Ford saying "who gives a poo poo?" "My immersion!" 
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Feb 6, 2013 02:53
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feedmyleg posted:An Imperial buddy cop movie would be amazing. Just make it a side-quel to A New Hope and have it be the two Imperial Detectives who were given the case to track down 3PO and R2. What, like Troops?
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Feb 6, 2013 03:22
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I don't think I've thought about Troops since 2001.
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Feb 6, 2013 03:44
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feedmyleg posted:I don't think I've thought about Troops since 2001. Had the exact same thought. How did I forget. This was before viral was viral. Longbaugh01 fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 04:13
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penismightier posted:Foreground. There are so many CG dinosaurs inserted in the first film. It's fairly absurd!
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Feb 6, 2013 06:09
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Does anyone know of a good write-up or summary of the idea that Lucas did all that stuff as a satirical move? I have to admit I've never run across that notion before and it made me go 
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Feb 6, 2013 06:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There are so many CG dinosaurs inserted in the first film. It's fairly absurd! Grueling. You ever see Deleted Magic, that thing that tried to recreate the original test screening cut, before Paul Hirsh, Richard Chew, and Marcia Lucas salvaged it in re-editing? Some friend of Luke's named Biggs is a huge character and the Death Star isn't about to blow up the rebel base when they attack it.
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Feb 6, 2013 06:59
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