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SOL_Cambot posted:I thought that was about her hands, because of her amnesia she didn't remember how they got burned. Well, she remembers well enough in Case 6 to show Naegi. But Sakura also makes mention of "what Monobear did to our bodies" in her suicide note, so I think it's definitely the memory.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:26
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On why the mastermind would potentially use Monomi in addition to Monobear, she initially seemed to represent the hope to Monobear's despair, and she's been portrayed as pathetic and completely ineffectual against the latter. She could easily be a strawman. On the memories, I can't quite discard the idea that Monobear's lying, and that the cast doesn't actually consist of years-long friends. That might just be me wanting them to contrast with the DR1 cast, though. On Kirigiri: Her mindwipe was far more extensive than the rest of the cast's, hence her forgetting her ability, and she doesn't actually specify what she meant about her body being different, but Sakura noticing a change too implies she was talking about her aging. CandyCrazy fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 22:27
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:But she remembered how she got the scars. They only lost their memory from when they joined Hope's Peak until the game of mutual killing began. I was pretty sure that memory of being a detective was wiped too too, that's why she couldn't reveal her SHSL talent until her memory eventually came back. I think she mentions that when she's talking to Naegi in the garbage chute at the start of chapter six But yeah considering the Sakura thing she probably meant her aging SOL_Cambot fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 22:29
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CandyCrazy posted:On the memories, I can't quite discard the idea that Monobear's lying, and that the cast doesn't actually consist of years-long friends. That might just be me wanting them to contrast with the DR1 cast, though. I think it's more of a pacing thing. We all know where they're going with the memories, so gently caress it, let's get it out of the way quick so we can get to the real mysteries. It'd be silly as hell to get to the end and have someone say "Oh, your memories are gone," and have everyone freak out when the audience saw it coming a mile away. SOL_Cambot posted:I was pretty sure that memory of being a detective was wiped too too, that's why she couldn't reveal her SHSL talent until her memory eventually came back. I think she mentions that when she's talking to Naegi in the garbage chute at the start of chapter six Or she was just bullshitting the whole time because she didn't really open up to anyone at all until that point.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:31
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slowbeef posted:The problem is it's hard to tell what's artistic and what's a clue. I sort of rationalize Monobear's control over the environment as him being basically GLADoS, in the way the school is shaped to his whim. And there being a bunch fo poo poo underground.
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Feb 5, 2013 22:40
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I'm hoping more of the cast is not what they seem--this whole scenario is too contrived and on the nose, so I'd really like more twists like "These people knew X" whereas "these people knew Y" or something like that. Anyway, let's hope
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Feb 5, 2013 22:44
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Walterion posted:Actually, if I had to work around Monobear's statement about ''15 students and a traitor'' I'd would have gone with: I seem to recall somebody speculating really early in the thread that Hinata is a SHSL Teacher. I always quite liked the idea, and this fits in nicely with it - he knew he was meant to be at the academy but forgot that he wasn't a student. As for the traitor thing, that seemed like speculation from Monobear - he knows there's somebody who shouldn't be there, but he seemed to be throwing the traitor idea out there. People have already pointed out how he seems much more inclined to improvise this time round - it could be an impromptu source of extra discord. Gato fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 22:47
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slowbeef posted:I don't know if there's anything that's happened to them that could only happen in a computer simulation (at least in game-world terms). Monobear's power has always been "technology so far advanced it's like magic," so nothing stands out. Mentioning that they've had multiple years of memories removed confirms a lot of things. Also, timing issues seem to indicate that this class is either the Freshman Year that should've come in during DR1, or that this is a senior class and Not-Naegi is lying/the outsider. It could also be far outside the time frame of the first game, but that feels unlikely. At the same time, none of this feels likely. Not-Naegi and Fat Togami really throw a wrench in most trivial theories about what's going on, and saying that there's only one outsider was a great choice by the developers. Introducing two unknowns and then saying there's only 1 trivial answer, clever dicks.
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Feb 5, 2013 23:20
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The Devil Tesla posted:I think we're going to have to suspend our disbelief on that. That the characters didn't grow between freshman year and the events of DR1 wasn't even mentioned last game, and I assume the same goes for this one. Quoting myself being wrong, the fact that they had grown a year was mentioned in DR1. Worth noting: the characters in DR2 don't spend their first moments on the island wondering why they are suddenly in older bodies, so that could be a hint about when the game takes place. Also worth noting: Togami seems to remember getting fat.
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Feb 5, 2013 23:22
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The Devil Tesla posted:Quoting myself being wrong, the fact that they had grown a year was mentioned in DR1. Worth noting: the characters in DR2 don't spend their first moments on the island wondering why they are suddenly in older bodies, so that could be a hint about when the game takes place. Also worth noting: Togami seems to remember getting fat. Togami might be infiltrating this group, so he might still have his memories, so he probably does remember getting fat. I still think it's a fat suit however.
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Feb 5, 2013 23:34
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Power of Pecota posted:Monobear's claiming not to know the person that's not supposed to be there pretty definitively rules a Junko comeback out unless somehow Togami's a part of two classes at the same school. The way he phrased it (starting with "I've got it!" and concluding with "...Or something") makes me think it's not an assertion of truth. It's just Monobear facetiously throwing out a theory. So the statements "the sixteenth person is a traitor" and "the sixteenth person is unknown to me" shouldn't necessarily be covered by the "Mastermind never technically lies" clause. (I don't recall if Monobear has actually said that he never lies in DR2, but that was his MO in the last game, so...)
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Feb 5, 2013 23:39
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RefinedUndefined posted:Togami might be infiltrating this group, so he might still have his memories, so he probably does remember getting fat. I still think it's a fat suit however. Didn't he say something about having the finest meals and basically gorging himself with food? Sounds awfully suspicious to me. Would be easy to suspect Togami as the infiltrator. Then the speculation begins as to who is helping him? Perhaps the old crew from the previous game scraped up some Monobear parts and made Monomi? But then, who's controlling Monobear? The plot thickens...
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Feb 5, 2013 23:48
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orenronen posted:And as I sat alone in my room, an incomprehensible thought occurred to me... Oh hell yes, please let this be the case. A game in which you play antagonist in this type of universe would be amazing. I wonder about the amnesia though, obviously the traitor wouldn't have given him/herself self-induced amnesia on some Liquid Ocelot type poo poo, right? Given that our protagonist's thoughts are readily available to us it doesn't make sense he'd be traitor. Maybe this is too obvious, and I hope this is the case, but I think choosing someone like Hiyoko to be the traitor would be great. A kind of "too obvious to be it" to try and throw off the scent?
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Feb 5, 2013 23:49
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Migishu posted:Didn't he say something about having the finest meals and basically gorging himself with food? Sounds awfully suspicious to me. Possibility: implanted memories?
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Feb 5, 2013 23:50
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I highly doubt tomorrow will be the murder day. We need enough time to be able to get all 6 hope shards from any character, so we need at least a couple more free time events to be able to.
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Feb 6, 2013 00:17
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Brilliant. They knew we'd be expecting the amnesia deal anyway, so they had Monobear lay it right out in the open in the first chapter. And then he uses it as murder bait. I love this game.
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Feb 6, 2013 00:33
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Requested_Username posted:I highly doubt tomorrow will be the murder day. We need enough time to be able to get all 6 hope shards from any character, so we need at least a couple more free time events to be able to. In the first games many days passed after every motive before a murder happened to raise the tension so that each morning you wake up and wonder if this will be the day. Also to lengthen the game because if murders happened so soon there would be a lot less game.
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Feb 6, 2013 00:38
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Requested_Username posted:I highly doubt tomorrow will be the murder day. We need enough time to be able to get all 6 hope shards from any character, so we need at least a couple more free time events to be able to. In the first game, Leon and Mukuro had three free-time events. They died after the game gave you two (well, three, but one's hogged by Maizono). Collecting Hope Shards will almost certainly just be a New Game+ sort of deal. Especially since oren said the game gives a better method for collecting them after beating it. Zeeco posted:In the first games many days passed after every motive before a murder happened to raise the tension so that each morning you wake up and wonder if this will be the day. Also to lengthen the game because if murders happened so soon there would be a lot less game. Maizono made her move the very same day that she saw her video. Chapter 2's "secret pasts" motive had an explicit 24-hour deadline.
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Feb 6, 2013 01:37
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I'm not sure there's necessarily a controller behind Monobear (or Monomi, for that matter) this time around. For all we know, they are both Alter Egos. For some added  , Monobear might even be Junko's AE who awakened in the very end of DR1.
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Feb 6, 2013 01:48
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slowbeef posted:I don't know if there's anything that's happened to them that could only happen in a computer simulation (at least in game-world terms). I think the only thing that the VR theory (which I personally think is absolute poo poo) explains that no other theory else has even tried to explain is the surreal antechamber-void to the classroom at the beginning. Which could be an entirely aesthetic decision or something that's simply not meant to be revisited, but it's conspicuously a detail that's new to DR2. When Naegi woke up from being mind-wiped, he was just suddenly in a classroom he didn't remember; he wasn't existing in some bizarre, empty, non-place. In DR2 it's mentioned the entire group has an experience like Hinata's, rather than just waking up in the classroom as one might expect given DR1. Not something unaccountable for in other ways, so the VR theory still sucks. CandyCrazy posted:On why the mastermind would potentially use Monomi in addition to Monobear, she initially seemed to represent the hope to Monobear's despair, and she's been portrayed as pathetic and completely ineffectual against the latter. She could easily be a strawman. If that's the case, I would think that Monomi would appear on the surface of things to have more of a fighting chance against Monobear. Monobear loves setting up hope only to crush it, so under that theory I would expect him to allow Monomi to seem a lot more competent, sympathetic, or trustworthy. Instead, he just categorically fucks her over at every opportunity. So I can't help but feel that he's got something to lose if he doesn't. Gato posted:I seem to recall somebody speculating really early in the thread that Hinata is a SHSL Teacher. I always quite liked the idea, and this fits in nicely with it - he knew he was meant to be at the academy but forgot that he wasn't a student. I've been kind of hoping that someone- probably Togami but maybe Hinata- would turn out to be around in a "supervisory" capacity in order to evoke rule 4, which is interesting because of its newness to the rule-set (and it's the most interesting Monomi-imposed rule) and I want to see it in action. Migishu posted:Didn't he say something about having the finest meals and basically gorging himself with food? Sounds awfully suspicious to me. Actually, his own rationalization on that point makes it sound like he regards himself as a rags-to-riches case, which sounds suspiciously evocative of his having lost his fortune and trying to rebuild in Monoworld. tiistai posted:I'm not sure there's necessarily a controller behind Monobear (or Monomi, for that matter) this time around. For all we know, they are both Alter Egos. For some added Strictly possible, and even to an extent likely given the DR1 stinger, but I'd be incredibly disappointed if that's the case because a large part of the fun of mystery masterminds is, y'know, them having actual identities that are deducible. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 02:51
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Man this thread picks up quick. I'm very surprised that Monobear threw everything out right now in the beginning, but I really like it. I'm super interested in finding out what comes next! Also calling out random judgement that Monomi is the 16th student.
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Feb 6, 2013 03:05
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Well this update was something. Monobear is really trying to flip the whole thing on its head, probably trying to just get them motivated and full on despairing out the gate instead of just being slow. Maybe because he doesn't have the patience for it this go around like Junko did. Also, just a note about the LP as opposed to just the story- am I the only one who's ears are getting blown out by the music's volume, and yet the spoken parts are a lot quieter? 
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Feb 6, 2013 03:17
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TCat posted:Also, just a note about the LP as opposed to just the story- am I the only one who's ears are getting blown out by the music's volume, and yet the spoken parts are a lot quieter? Been like that since DR1. I assume it's because the voiced stuff is recorded off of the game while the soundtracks are from a CD rip.
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Feb 6, 2013 03:41
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Huh, Togami dismisses the idea of there even being a traitor outright, which is very, very different from the way he reacted to the revelation of there being a mastermind's mole in DR1, and later learning the mastermind was one of the 16 students. I'm not convinced he would lie in order to keep murders from happening even post-character development. It's nothing concrete yet, but the likelihood that Togami knows more than he's letting on seems to be increasing. For example, it would be congruous if he was the extra student, knew this, and also knew that he wasn't against the other students and thus not a traitor.
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Feb 6, 2013 04:30
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An interesting tidbit: If we combine the information from DR0, DR1 and DR2, it seems that the DR2 cast is at least three years senior to DR1's students (Ryouko's class and the class that got slaughtered are both senior to the DR1 cast, and the school closed down about a year after DR1 cast entered Hope's Peak which means it is the last class for Hope's Peak).
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Feb 6, 2013 04:48
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Jeek posted:An interesting tidbit: If we combine the information from DR0, DR1 and DR2, it seems that the DR2 cast is at least three years senior to DR1's students (Ryouko's class and the class that got slaughtered are both senior to the DR1 cast, and the school closed down about a year after DR1 cast entered Hope's Peak which means it is the last class for Hope's Peak). Considering I'm pretty sure Japanese high school only goes for three years total, they would have already graduated by the time Naegi et al. came in.
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Feb 6, 2013 04:55
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Jeek posted:An interesting tidbit: If we combine the information from DR0, DR1 and DR2, it seems that the DR2 cast is at least three years senior to DR1's students (Ryouko's class and the class that got slaughtered are both senior to the DR1 cast, and the school closed down about a year after DR1 cast entered Hope's Peak which means it is the last class for Hope's Peak). Well, that is assuming one year is equivalent to one class, which is easy to automatically assume but I think it's really doubtful. Especially since that'd mean that there are less than fifty students attending Hope's Peak at any one time, which is ridiculous considering the size of the campus (there are three years to Japanese high school, times 15-16 people in a class at Hope's Peak = way too few!). I don't know too much about how Japanese high schools work what i do know is from anime, but I think they're generally divided by year and then subdivided further into classes that share a letter. So every class is assigned a number and a letter in the format, 3-A or 2-B or some such etc. And those subdivisions stick to a single homeroom and share a timetable; the students in one class receive all their lessons in a single room with the teachers of particular subjects moving around. I think that when the DR1 kids are referred to as the 78th class, it's like how we'd refer to students in North America as "The class of 'XX" based on the year that they graduated. If you and someone you went to high school with are, say, the class of '05, it doesn't mean you necessarily shared a homeroom or had anything in common on your schedule. If, say, the students in DR1 were class 2-A when The Worst Most  Incident occured, I think "78th class" would collectively refer to everyone who would be 2-* (2-B, 2-C, & so on) and not exclusively in 2-A.So, I think some people are getting confused by the different senses with which the word "class" is used: it can refer collectively to everyone who entered and will leave the school at the same time, but it can also refer to a group of students who share a homeroom and a timetable. Given that, we don't really have any sense of chronology- the DR1 kids, Ryouko and Matsuda, the victims of the weird murder-room, and the DR2 kids could all be from the 78th class for all we know, but they could also be in different classes. edit: or I could be forgetting some definite evidence that Ryouko is older than the DR1 kids; someone shout at me if so. Point still stands though. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 05:12
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where was it said that there was only supposed to be 15 of them anyway  EDIT: VV man that was sure a helpful post VV NextTime000 fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 05:51
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NextTime000 posted:where was it said that there was only supposed to be 15 of them anyway This has already been answered.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:59
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Waffleman_ posted:This has already been answered. where? I honestly tried to read the thread but I guess I got lost after a while in the vast Sea of Speculation oh here I found it I must have skipped over it VV man that is even better, how did I miss the blue username? NextTime000 fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 06:01
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Here. I dont blame you at all this thread moves pretty fast
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Feb 6, 2013 06:02
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Going on with the only 15 students discussion. Monobear states "there were only supposed to be fifteen Hope’s Peak Academy students coming to this island!" Like this was actually a plan that he knew about and someone interfered. So going back on what someone said about the 16 huts instead of 15 does come over as quite odd actually. Here's a theory, 15 students were sent by the mastermind to the island to partake in despair inducing activities, the mastermind was also on the island and gets a 16th hut. A traitor showed up with monomi to try and stop the despair by erasing their memories. The mastermind then escapes and the traitor and monomi try and bring hope to the 15. The mastermind eventually hatches a plot to bring despair back to the 15 students and that is when monobear arrives. The fact that monobear seems to basically know the island inside and out and has robots on it tells me that he once stayed on the island. Now what would really be interesting is if the student trial ended up having 16 seats in it as well.
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Feb 6, 2013 07:22
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Now I'm wondering whether the trials are going to have a space for Monomi. Would be a shame to leave her out!
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Feb 6, 2013 07:58
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I was just thinking, the 16th student may have been a teacher. They do have a SHSL coach after all, why would they not put him on the faculty to teach Gym classes? It's a possibility. He was probably learning High School stuff on the side from SHSL Tutors of varying subjects. My Theory: Nidai is a coach first and foremost, High School Student last. Monobear may be trying to get people thinking that he's the mastermind using wordplay, getting them to distrust the non-fulltime student.
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Feb 6, 2013 08:17
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I understand why you guys kept "tsukkomi" after going to the trouble to explain the whole manzai thing, but I think you missed a golden opportunity here quote:
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Feb 6, 2013 08:19
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That's not what they mean by punch-line!
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BioEnchanted posted:My Theory: Nidai is a coach first and foremost, High School Student last. Great theory. Good use of concrete evidence and deductions without baseless speculation leaps! 
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Feb 6, 2013 08:26
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Fedule posted:I don't want to talk about it I'm not going to explain it further than "Sonia makes an untranslatable language mistake" and that I think we kept the spirit or the joke, but for anyone who knows Japanese and is interested, this is the original exchange: Sonia: …とんだ吸った揉んだでしたね。 Teruteru: …その字って合ってる？ Souda: 仕方ねーだろ…外国の方なんだからよ… Speaking of untranslatable stuff, I was almost disappointed nobody asked about the last part of Junko's tirade regarding virgins a few DR/Zero updates back. That one was even more untranslatable (though I guess I did a good job if no one pointed it out), but I like the original so much that I'm going to reprint it here too, for the few of you who can appreciate it: 「……話変わるけどさ、童貞って最悪じゃない？ 董卓と字が似てるってトコ以外は、丸っきり最悪じゃない？ と言っても、その董卓ですらしょせんは呂布のかませ犬な訳だけども、それでもやっぱり童貞よりは董卓の方が何兆倍も素敵よね。……で、何の話だっけ？ あぁ、そうそう……ん、曹操の話？ それじゃあ、ちょっくら黒山軍の反乱あたりの話から振り返ってみると――」 Epoxy Bulletin posted:I understand why you guys kept "tsukkomi" after going to the trouble to explain the whole manzai thing, but I think you missed a golden opportunity here ...You know what, I like that enough that (pending Fedule approval), I'm going to retroactively edit it into the translation.
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Feb 6, 2013 08:42
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. Ask Oren.
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Falls Down Stairs posted:Now I'm wondering whether the trials are going to have a space for Monomi. Would be a shame to leave her out! There will be enough room for everybody - don't forget the seat left behind by the victim. And now I am wondering how on earth would Togami fit in his seat.
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Feb 6, 2013 08:58
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Jeek posted:There will be enough room for everybody - don't forget the seat left behind by the victim. Probably the same way Yamada did.
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Feb 6, 2013 09:08
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orenronen posted:I'm not going to explain it further than "Sonia makes an untranslatable language mistake" and that I think we kept the spirit or the joke, but for anyone who knows Japanese and is interested, this is the original exchange: She's talking about the Romance of the Three Kingdoms? You did a good job with the translation though.
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Feb 6, 2013 11:15
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